AngryParent

It appears that Angryparent is still angry even though he appears to reached his goal.

Angry is my first name and under such you want to...?

Have you travelled the hard roads my family has travelled, have you lived in Thailand under extreme situations?

I have spent many years debating with 7by7 and a lot more... who are you???

As you appear to have reached your goal why do you find it necessary to continue wasting your energy debating with an anonymous stranger?

Wouldn't that energy be better directed at looking after your wife and child or is 'winning' more important?

Good luck with your life, I do not have time for those that do not have the respect to humbly acknowledge my road and join the table. You ask more questions without answering any yourself.

It appears that Angryparent is still angry even though he appears to reached his goal.

Angry is my first name and under such you want to...?

Have you travelled the hard roads my family has travelled, have you lived in Thailand under extreme situations?

I have spent many years debating with 7by7 and a lot more... who are you???

The title of this topic, chosen by the OP, is "The TRUE cost of a UK spouse visa."

I assumed that the OP was asking about the UKVI fees and other necessary costs which all applicants have to pay because in the OP he says

My guess is that anybody who has been through the (minimum 5 year process) would have spent at least 5 to 20,000 GBP on satisfying the process

Satisfying the process; not courting one's spouse and travelling to and from Thailand.

These are not part of the visa process and how much you spend doing so is not set by UKVI nor the government!

Durhamboy in post 2 provided the actual cost of the fees for the visa and LTR applications, plus associated costs every applicant has to pay such as TB tests and English tests.

If others want to bump up the costs by employing agents, flying business class, paying extra for a same day decision; that is their choice.

BTW, once the visa is issued, the holder has three months in which to first enter the UK, there is no need to book tickets with just a few days notice.

If one is going to include all the costs of marrying a Thai, how far back do you go?

The flight which took you to Thailand before you met him/her?

The hotel bills you paid whilst on holiday there, whether he/her stayed with you or not?

The drinks and meals you may have paid for while courting him/her?

What about any gifts you may have bought him/her or his/her family?

The list goes on and on!

Please explain to me how any of these costs can be laid at the door of UKVI or the British government.

In the old days I learnt by exceeding your knowledge base and this in the end got me home. Just like a knife needs to be sharpened against a blunt device, my family progressed by noticing flaws in your visa arguments.

Let me assist you with the TRUE cost.

For such, you need to look at the regulation differences between the 2 visas. We already have much evidence that the normal UK visas are very costly.

However, simple regulations can add a bundle.

Under the EU/EEA route my family can stay in the cheapest and smallest sized place that is affordable. Under the UK visa route we would be compelled to get a minimum of 2 bedrooms (as we have a son - even though the young son likes to sleep with us and has done for the last 5 years).

Before you speak, I am currently paying 1050 per month on rent (a lot more than you are having disposable income) - but that is up to me and a last minute muppet estate agent. But that is how it should be, not forced by the GOVT to pay in advance for such a property to satisfy a visa tick box.

The TRUE cost is the freedom from 1-10-permanent years of a GOVT dictating my every action. The EEA/EU route allows my family to live like any other free family in the UK, without having to modify my life to jump the hoops!

There is no compulsary requirement for UK families to have a certain sized house. But for visa applicants there is: if I was to do the UK visa with my UK citizen son I would need to pay 2-300 GBP per month extra for at least 5 years - that in itself = adds about 10-15k.

7by7, a few years back, when I was still in Thailand, I asked for knowledge and assistance. I did not get such and such made me find my own route and the data for such.

My wife can sit on the sofa and watch TV without fear, my son can be a friendly naughty kid without fear. I can go to work each day and not fear that there is a ticking time bomb!

When the EU was a concept and the ECHR Human Rights was an IDEAL, situtations such as mine were placed at the top of the queue and a sunny day was envisioned.

At one point I kindly asked for your assitance regarding judicial review and you took the high road.

NOW 7BY7, I have walked the road that many/most have not walked and I have disproved all of your armchair views.

Think I have found some answers here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eea-family-permits-eun02/eea-family-permit-eun02

Paragraph number 14.

Another question came to mind, maybe 7by7 could answer, is there a limit to the amount of EEA Family permits my wife can apply for, if we go on holiday to the UK often.

Another point that hit me was this:

After entry to the UK the holder can apply to the Home Office for a residence card. A residence card (an endorsement in the holder’s passport) enables the holder to re-enter the UK without the need for an EEA family permit for as long as they are the family member of an EEA national with a right of residence in the UK. A residence card, which is normally valid for five years, is simply a confirmation of the holder’s right of residence in the UK - it is not a compulsory requirement. See further guidance on applying for residence cards.

The bit in RED caught my eye, does this mean that my wife could apply for a Residence Card, but actually go out of the UK back to Germany and live there with me.

Do not forget that the residence card takes 6 months and they keep the wife's passport (you could request to get it back)! So, she would at least have to stay in the UK for a certain amount of time.

But yes, the residence card does give your wife the right to leave and come back over 5 years i.e. it is like a 5 year multi entry visa.

If you really just want a free multiple entry visa you would probably be better off just applying for the EEA family permit (it is a multiple entry visa) and when that is expiring apply for another one - but you would need to prove the whole eligibility again and again every 6 months. This takes about 2 weeks, compared to 6 months.

AngryParent - wherever I look it says the following:

You should apply for a visa to join your family member instead if your family member is a British citizen (unless you’re their carer).

Ignore the bit in red.

From the UK website: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eea-family-permits-eun02/eea-family-permit-eun02#eun214-can-family-members-of-british-citizens-qualify-for-an-eea-family-permit-surinder-singh-cases

Make sure you prove that the centre of your family is now in Germany - that is the main point!

A rather cheap shot from you.

Don't take 7by7's post personally, AngryParent.

Maybe the underlying message is to get on with it and cut out the indolence rather than a cheap shot.

Actions speak louder than words and you could just get on with it.

7by7 has openly stated he does not like me when he was in control of this forum. Your positive attitude is nice though.

As for actions... does anyone know how many years I have spent trying to take care of my Thai wife and son? Does anyody know how long it has taken for me to be in a position to afford to pay for visas, tickets, return home etc??? Where they there when I was in the hospital and was scared about the costs of my son's birth? Were they there when I was worried about Thai employers treating me like a slave and stealing money from my salary (or deporting me because I did not bow down and take it)? Where they there when I dreamt of going home each day, but could never afford the visas or meet the requirments all those years back???

Where they there when, after a long time of trying to get a job in the UK (from this part of the world - but because I was not there employers ignored me), I finally spent thousands of pounds for the flight back to get a job that met the initially criteria (money that was hard to spent), cheap b & b s daily costs... only to be told that a salary that was offered, although it met the spouse visa would not ensure the spouse visit visa (I cannot be apart to almost a year as it is unaffordable).

When I asked for help on here the only person that had the kindness to reply was "the old git". All those in the past that attacked me vanished. Even citizens advise in the UK did not have an answer (as they are not trained up to that level). The Migrant something just did not even give me an appointment to see them (as my permanent adress was in Thailand) and the same for a few other "publically funded" immigration services. I could not get legal aid (as it has been stopped for immigration matters). All that was left was to get back on a flight to Thailand and be with my Thai family (minus thousands of pounds that takes years to save in Thailand).

So, scre____ all that want to be judgemental and negative to me. They are all the same as maggie, Cameron, Nick Griffin and Hitle___.

I have been trying to go back to the UK for a number of years now. I finally got up the steam to get a job in the UK (about a month back), then was told that I would probably not be able to get a family visit visa for the wife.

Who told you that your wife would probably not be successful at a family visit visa?

There are other options. Your wife can apply for a settlement visa as you've already stated that you want out of LOS.

I'm slightly confused at your post, AngryParent. It doesn't make sense.

Angry Parent has been posting for some time about his 'difficulties, going well back before the rule changes last July.

He has been given much advice, over a lengthy period and from what he said at the time had his wife applied before last July she would probably have been successful, as he was advised at the time.

I think that his saying "I have been trying to go back to the UK for a number of years now. I finally got up the steam to get a job in the UK (about a month back)" tells us all we need to know about the effort he has, or rather hasn't, put into this!

The prospect of his wife obtaining a family visitor visa while he spends 6 months working in the UK to meet the financial requirement has also previously been discussed at length. Whilst I admit to being dubious about this at first, the experience of other members who have successfully done so has proven me wrong.

I suspect that there is much AP is not telling us about his situation.

But this is not the place for discussion about anyone's specific situation.

A rather cheap shot from you.

You claim I have not put effort into going back. Who are you to judge me??? What do you know about what I have or have not done? You haven't even given me a penny in my life but claim to say I have not done anything. F_____

Pathetic and just shows how low you go, when one is down you kick them. The rest of your post is further nonsense with inuendos etc.

And can you believe the "spin" they've put on it ? "We're doing you a favour by taking away your right of appeal as it stops you having to wait 8 months to see justice done " !

Applicants who are refused can re-apply addressing the reasons for refusal instead of appealing. This will be quicker and cost less than an appeal. In 2011-12 95% of applications were decided within 15 days, whereas the appeal system can take up to 8 months to deliver a result.

Hmm dosn't seem too bad,if the above staement can be believed? (that's not to say I agree with the appeal choice being taken away though)

Just further cra_p from the UKBA and the new UK that (IMHO) is anti-all-foreigners.

I have been trying to go back to the UK for a number of years now. I finally got up the steam to get a job in the UK (about a month back), then was told that I would probably not be able to get a family visit visa for the wife. I really cannot be seperated from the wife and UK citizen son for close to a year (6 months to have the job in the UK and then 4+ months for the visa process). And this visit visa was my last hope to plug a gap - I lost the hope.

Now I need to fully readjust my life and mind to think that I might be burried in Thailand (a country where I was not born and might have to stay in). My son has lost his UK future (education and other) as I am abandoned by the UK and forced into "exile".

If I was permitted to swear and curse on this forum I would probably have a million page post....

Stopping appeals is fully in line with the cold approach your beloved UKBA and govt. has adopted under the coalition.

My wife, son and myself had so much to contribute and give back to the UK (and I gave so much in the past in taxes too). Such a waste, such a depressing situation, such a depressing govt. "service" to its citizens!

Zie_ Hei___ Mei___ Camaron, May, et al... I hope you learnt a lot from Maggie... there will be no more public funerals for those that steal from the poor to pay for the rich.

Well, got a job offer in London at a bit more than 18,600, but with the cost of rent (and the fact that the wife would not be able to work until she got a spouse visa - non-visit).

So, the problem is that one would probably need to claim tax credits for the UK citizen son and myself (maybe any other benefits that we are eligible to too).

1. Would claiming any of the above (and any other entitlements) result in the Thai wife being refused a 6 month visit visa to the UK?

2. If the answer to 1 is "no", then would claiming such result in her being refused the spouse visa (that would be applied for after I have the job in the UK for 6 months and she goes back - assuming she gets the visit visa)?

Thanks in advance.

@ Jay Sata: I can't see Theresa May allowing the judges to mess up her immigration policy via cases like this.She has already stated there is new legislation in the pipeline so don't hold your breath.

Indeed! That is the new mythological spin! The reality is that this lady has been overrulled numerous times in a UK court!

So, at what point does justice kick in? Or are the Sheeple (BNP term) going to keep promoting unjust and racist policies? (Before those who do not know me step in... almost 15 years back I was debating the BNP)! And much before that I was alive and was aware of the previous BNP leader and how UKIP (which is recent) was formed. And before that my grand... escaped from racist Europe!

I have no time for racist neo-nazi UK.

Just pure speculation that is off topic (but at the same time very on topic), but this seems to be a fairly common occurance in such threads.

Is the visa gap, the political gap, the age gap etc. an issue of lack of communication and understanding between the differnt groups?

Is such a lack of understanding between groups the cause of much division in the UK? Are we (similar people such as myself) excluded from the UK because there is no understanding of the basic XYZ? As a teacher I am well versed in misunderstaings and a lack of comprehension of the other party's meaning. But we are taught to teach that such gaps are workable.

What future is there for our children, if those that are part of the whole, seek a fragmented division?

@theoldgit... it is there... it has not disappeared... be it positive or negative it is newsworthy! This is a primary test case, of much value!

Forgive me for stating the obvious, it was a High Court case, could potentially take a few months before the judgement is publicised. A judgement of much significance that has applied most angles. My post was for UK residents in the legal sphere that could update me (without prejudice to their position) e.g. the case has concluded (all evidence has been heard), it is still ongoing etc.

"Your assumptions throughout this thread are very loose, AngryParent, and quite worrying.

Please post evidence of where UKBA have publicised that both visas for mother and son should be granted.

Your advice appears to overlook some major points of law.

Fortunately, you're not an immigration lawyer, otherwise you wouldn't spout such drivel." (quote)

Oh for crying out loud... you have 4 posts to your name. At the same time you deserve a full answer... 7by7... can you please confirm the situation regarding a spouse and dependant applying at the same time? Where is the link that states that the spouse and the child get treated the same at the same time? I don't get paid for this, anybody that has been around the block will confirm that spouse and dependant applying at the same time get treated the same (unless there is some evidence to diffrentiate).

Edit: what in the world made you state that a mother and son visa should be granted under the law (from my posts)? Kindly read each post, pause at punctuation etc....

@wooloomooloo "This is factually incorrect. Both applications are just that - separate."

No they are not, if applied at the same time! Please do your research on family visas with dependants. If you are talking about only a vist visa then you have some grounds... but, if you are talking about the full mile (spouse visa with dependants) then you are wrong. And the full mile is what the OP is talking about.

I can only go with what I know about the custody issue and assume that I have been told and understand it correctly. Obviously I need to follow this up.

I find it odd that the Embassy followed up with the son and the father if the divorce and custody documents were correct. If they were correct why even contact the father.

If they weren't correct why not a straight rejection and not contact the father.

I was fully expecting her application to be rejected and therefore the son's but not to grant her's and reject the son's.

Indeed, this is a matter thay you need to follow up. There is either a very fundamental issue affecting your family or it is a UKBA error. If it is the former, and beano2274 has given a possible situation, I have alluded to a few others, then this needs to be resolved post haste... as this issue will haunt the future.

For all, I wish you the best. Do not forget, you have rights as UK citizen and are allowed to question, refute, challenge etc... Just be polite whilst doing so.

Edit: you were expecting her application to be rejected... hmmm... that is a more serious issue... these "hidden" concepts should also be addressed (for personal etc..). Maybe for the future. Maybe, count today as a great day and move to the UK with the wife for a short time and then reasses? You are still luckier than many, who cannot bring ANYBODY back to the UK.

For all those who have followed my posts before:

The current EEA criteria are as follows:

If you are moving to Ireland (similar for other EU nations) and then using Surinder Singh to return to the UK:

1. Must have ANY job in Ireland for 3 months (salary is irrelevant - but not voluntary jobs).Part-time etc. is acceptable.

2. If you go there under self-employed status - There is a minimum income (and/or savings) level - that is the level that excludes you from any benefits in the EU nation. If you have XYZ in the bank that meets this level, then you can happily open a company and work for yourself for 3 months and then move back to the UK with your family (even if your company makes $10 a month).

Under EEA rules you can obviously apply before 3 months and may be OK but, you could be refused. This does not exclude you for multiple applications as it is your right under EEA law.

If you move to any of the Schengen Visa areas you must ensure that your visa has the added input of Directive 2004/38/EC. The same applies to Ireland. Failure to have this will probably result in your spouse having to leave the country and fly back in when you apply for the residence permit/card. Please be warned - there is no mercy in this area. The local "uneducated native visa admin officer" is well aware of this - but they will act like ignorant people and ask for unecessary documents. Under EEA law, all that is required is a letter from the EU spouse confirming EEA intentions. Salary, bank balance, home, insurance etc. are not required.

Also, please follow this - upon each party arriving in the EU state, please immediately apply for the residence. Again, upon moving to the UK, do the same. National Border Agencies are trying all methods under the sun to reject legitimate cases.

Hope this helps. Any questions feel free to ask.

I know I posted this news story here... but, what happened to it?

Is this case still in progress? Did it die a quiet death?

I have asked her to send me the refusal. The boy definitely wants to go to the UK.

Wife says that she sent the paperwork saying that she has legal custody to the Embassy. Not sure if this was translated or not.

All I know is the Embassy called the boy and asked for the father's telephone number as thay wanted to speak to him.

Obviously I don't know the legal ins and outs of this but the father takes no repsonsibility for his son so the choice is the wife stays in Thailand or her parents look after the boy. The father will not have any involvement so it will be pretty pissy if he threw a spanner in the works.

Assuming everything was submitted correctly and legal custody is with the mother should we appeal or resubmit.

I assume appeal as resubmission would only be with all the same documentation but I guess appealling is a long drawn out affair.

I am not a professional visa middleman, but I can say from my many years of visa law (personal experience), UKBA etc etc, that if the wife was given the visa, the son should have been too (application at the same time - this has been well publicised by the UKBA almost to the extent of a sales pitch).

If it has been refused, then as per the adivse above e.g. custody etc. that will be the failing point.

Also, a sad fact that is often omitted, visas are denied mysteriously (maybe to fulfil quotas etc.) only to be allowed on appeal. All that have been around the block a million times know this - just not easy to scientifically prove.

Such a document is not acceptable as it is not legally enforceable. An affidavit is only a document witnesed by a notary or a solicitor, and is not necessarily poof of anything. Saying that an applicant will leave the Uk, and actually enforcing that, are two completely separate things.

That said, why is an affidavit necessary ? We have submitted applications for exactly the circumstances you describe, and the visas have been issued. In fact, one was issued as recently as last week.

OK. Thanks.

As per my topic a few months back, specifically my situation, there was debate that it might be hard to satisfy the proof of return for the Thai spouse.

You now say that such visas are being given - can you tell me what are the requirments of such (6 month family vist visa prior to spouse visa appilcation) e.g. income, savings, Thai spouse situation etc.

Thanks.

Does anybody know if a legally acceptable document under the law - an affidavit - will be acceptable as proof of return for a family visit visa UK?

Assuming the affidavit is properly legally witnessed and signed etc and states the full intent and desire to return at the end of the 6 months.

The vist visa will ensure that a family is not seperated for 6 months (the time the UK citizen spouse will need to return to the UK, after living in Thailand, to satisfy employment criteria for the Thai spouse).

Thanks.

Yes. It is true. The moment you obtain approval from CPC Mississauga office, Sponser can file TRV application for his/her Spouse to bring to Canada until PR process is Completed. Dual Intent does not apply in that case as per IRPA Regulation of Canada.

I am sure the answer to this question might help others: are there any minimum income &/or savings requirments etc. to get a TRV after approval from CPC Mississauga?

Some surprising news for most Canadians:

A friend of mine who is Canadian said that once you have approval for sponsorship class from missasugua (takes about 2 months) you can then apply for a dual intent tourist visa for the wife. This way you can move to Canada in about 2 months - no need for studies etc. Then live in Canada and wait for processing of PR.

Contact your embassy to confirm.

Apparently the FIRST legal challenge to the new family visa rules will be heard this week:

http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk/news/2013/test-challenge-new-family-immigration-rules-be-heard-high-court

The APPG - The All-Party Parliamentary Group on Migration has set up an inquiry to hear evidence regarding the impact of the new spouse/family migration rules.

Click here to have say say sent directly to the Parliamentary group! http://www.appgmigration.org.uk/content/family-inquiry-online-evidence-submission

The deadline is the 31st of January - so, hurry up!

I'm sure that most of us go to our local immigration office one a year and renew our Non immigration type B or O visa, pay the Baht 1,900 plus the apropriate paperwork and then pay the Baht 3800 for the multiple re-entry visa!

What's the problem?

The problem is not everyone meets the requirements for extension of stay - money paid by nationality or company tax records available for last year are to most often not met.

You have summed it up!

This basically means that the maximum stay for MANY on work visas will be 90 days.

And if the strict and famous work visa is restricted... what about the tourist visa - 7/14/30??? What about pensioners and those who are spouses?

All foreigners MAXIMUM stay 7-30 days per year soon?