chevykanteve

This judgement should surprise nobody. And bear in mind that the Democrat party has not been vindicated. They got off on a technicality and the President of the Constitutional Court thought they did have a case to answer. One questions whether political considerations have influenced the 4 judges who voted not to allow the case to proceed.

The real test of course will be in April or May or November or however long the Democrats can put off the inevitable election that Peua Thai will win. Then watch for lots of court cases against PT MP's who give a couple of bags of rice to impoverished voters during the election campaign. I wonder if the constitutiuonal court will find technical flaws in the case against them. I think not!

Double Standards!

"..or however long the Democrats can put off the inevitable election that Peua Thai will win."

Burma, post the soldier/coup leader Ne Win, should provide a history rich enough to address the consequences of historical issues such as these.

All it took was reaching ONE single point that invalidated the entire procedure and the suit is over. It's not a case of not getting into the basis of the charges merits, because they are moot if the suit is not proper, properly filed, or correctly legal to proceed upon. Seems they found a very early issue that closed things down. It of course calls for a simple reading of what basis for throwing out the case was about, and nothing further was needed. No doubt they new this early on and went through the formality of allowing closing arguments, but the hint was that a ruling would come today after lunch, with an obvious lack of need to analyze the closing arguments at all.

So this is all over except the Red sides howling into the night about....

insert expletive here.

over and over again.

Your points should be agreeable to many, without a doubt. But.... it.... could not possibly have been a foregone conclusion. I mean, not with all this "Good Governance" and liberalism the country's been experiencing these past 4 years or so! Not to mention the death of corruption corresponding to Thaksin's ouster in a military coup sponsored by the corruptless. Let's all relish this freedom!

Right, and I bet a large proportion of those music lovers were wearing yellow shirts.

Nah. I reckon they removed their yellow shirts before heading for the show. Wouldn't want to be attacked, beaten, stabbed, injured, maimed, or killed now would they?

Ever been to a benefit concert? Did you go to see the artists, or did you go because you wanted to donate money to a cause?

"Nah. I reckon they removed their yellow shirts before heading for the show. Wouldn't want to be attacked, beaten, stabbed, injured, maimed, or killed now would they?"

Please exercise some attempt at objectivity. Your statement displays an overt desire to discredit those voters who would surely prevail were an election to be held today.

Given today's so-called PAD rally, let me add a slightly different perspective

>It could be argued that this is in fact a Democrat Party rally. But who really knows. The PAD and that Party are so intertwined. I do know that the organizers went to Government House to do some rally planning with Abhisit. And I read on this board that many participants arrived from the South via train. The south being the epicentre of the narrowly regional Democrat Party.

>The bigger political event of this weekend occurred in Khao Yai. It was a fundraising concert for the UDD. I understand that the participation was so huge, that there was traffic backed up from Rangsit to Pak Chong. Apparently over 150,000 were in attendance. Compare that to the group in BKK this weekend. If anything, this contrast speaks to the electoral majority/minority thing.

I don't see the comparison. One event is a music concert/festival where the proceeds are donated. Another is a rally. People go to concerts to see the artists and musicians live. People go to rallies to support a cause.

Right, and I bet a large proportion of those music lovers were wearing yellow shirts.

So the rally was all about the petition. Fine, but why does Mr Dirk call it "democratic"?

There's nothing democratic about that petition.

"Democracy" is a relative term: to wit, the so-called PAD; the "People's Democratic Republic of...", etc.

Have the folks of the Red Terrorist Movement gone home yet?

A couple grey haired old ladies from down the street returned from the Red Terrorist Movement early this morning.

I bet those stupid women have no idea they are terrorists.

I will tell them for you Gardener2

Some people are so dumb....they will know Gardener2......rest assured!

They tell me they are fighting to protect their democratic voting rights.....idiots!

Typical North Easterners.......What the hel_l do they know.

Provincials such as those do not of course have political opinions of any consequence. After all, such simple folk only represent a geographical area (=Northeast Thailand) of about 160,000 square kilometers, or 1/3rd of the entire country.

Sat Oct 17, 10:39 am ET

BANGKOK (AFP) – About 17,000 "Red Shirt" supporters of Thaksin Shinawatra rallied in Bangkok Saturday to pressure the Thai government over their petition seeking a royal pardon for the fugitive former prime minister.

The number of protesters in the capital's historic quarter could eventually reach 20,000, said deputy national police spokesman Piya Utayo, adding the security situation so far was "normal".

Thailand has deployed 2,000 police officers and invoked a harsh....

So what is this this 'banned zone' exactly ?

If it includes military bases I don't see how that can be an issue, aren't there any military police who can step in at this point and make the searches / arrests required ?

Yes, of course MPs can and must do so. It's but a logical extension to the concept of the "Good Governance" ideals of the coup leaders and their present pol status quo. But gosh oh golly, maybe the MPs' duties will be delayed due to legal/administrative factors/committees/sub-committees of the GOOD FOLKS prevailing in the present circles of Good Governance and/or M Protocol. It would sure be nice not to have to speak in riddles like this. Imagine what it must be like in Burma in terms of free expression.

Is the "banned zone" somewhere in Lopburi? This is an absoutely wild guess, I know.

Democrats pushed Education reform law. The law called for child centered education, decentralisation to introduce flexibility and independence, developing of thinking skills, English language skills etc. etc.

Then Thaksin took over and the first thing he did was to reduce the number of school districts so that the old administrative clique could still have complete top-down control. Then his Education minister resigned, barely three months in office, then reform was burried for good. Thaksin administration paid only lip service to it, keeping old powers firmly entrenched and stiffling all development.

It was the TRT under Thaksin that decentralised the schools in the face of mass opposition so they compromised by giving teachers more time to transfer to other schools.

In comparison to what had gone before TRT education reforms were an improvement, and in comparison to Democrat policy at the time, visionary.

Only Democrats care that their children can get an equal opportunity up to high school. Under poor-loving Thaksin they were instead effectively banned from education, especially past secondary level.

The military abolished the minimum amount of education guaranteed to every Thai child after their coup in 2006.

Just a question, why don't more posters pick up your deliberate lies and falsehoods?

Many posters do pick up on misleading information. They just tend now to comment on such matters in one of the many private forum and email-exchange groups that have popped up during the past year or so. You can't debate openly with elitist cum political cultists.

Correction:

"..if the PAD get their hands on modelling the system as they see fit, god WILL help this country."

I'm glad you quoted the name of the Almighty as "god" with the "g" in lower-case; it serves to separate religion from cultism, though I suspect you hadn't intended that to be the case.

They will only take votes away from the democrats. However, not sure it matters when it is coalitions that elect governments.

Coalitions that ELECT governments?

More like coup d'etats that SELECT governments, I should think.

Terrorists who seized airports (=plural) having their votes usurped by a party that had been installed by ....well, let's say..... indirect means?? Give me a break.

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW

Interview with Sondhi Limthongkul

By The Nation

Published on May 2, 2009

Media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul gave an exclusive interview to Nation Weekend, the sister publication of The Nation. Here are excerpts of his thoughts on the state of Thai politics and how he fell prey to the gun attack.

Q : The attempt on your life is like things that happened 20 to 30 years ago. Politics has not changed. What are your thoughts?

A : I am interested in how the oldstyle politics resumed after the ousting of expremier Thaksin Shinawatra. It became clear when the miliary coerced the switch of the coalition alliance to the Democrat Party. I am convinced this is proof of the [continued existence] of the old political cliques and the military desiring to retain their political domination.

I believe the Newin Chidchob faction will never embrace the "new politics" [which ensures transparency by the public participation instead of placing power in the hands of selected elites - editor's note].

Under oldstyle politics, it can happen that the faction will pull strings via Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan for investing in the Ruam Jai Thai Party, paving the way for the House dissolution. Then the faction will install Prawit as party leader and rely on votebuying and the patron system via the police and the Interior Ministry to secure election victory.

No one will dare challenge the militarybacked party. This way Prawit will be succeeded by Army chief General Anupong Paochinda. Power will remain in the control of a few.

The "new politics" means a stop to corruption. This is unacceptable to the oldstyle politicians.

The attempt on my life happened because they see me as the biggest obstacle to their scheme. I can see through all of them. I pointed this out three or four days before the gun attack.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva was the victim of two assassination attempts, one happened in Pattaya and another at the Interior Ministry. He has survived unscathed but I sustained injuries.

I have been told that I have made so many enemies. I don't deny it. Whenever you try to stand up for the country in fighting illintentioned people, you will have enemies wherever you turn, left or right.

But if you are determined in your mission, you have no choice but to march on.

If the powers that be see "new politics" as the obstacle, then does it mean that the attack against feudalism by the opposing camp is any less dangerous?

Certain soldiers are paying lip service to the monarchy although they are not really loyal. I suspect they just care for themselves. They want prestige, aim to increase the budget for arms procurement and ensure their survival.

Any military commander would be happy about having two things - control over secret funds and a mutual relationship with Newin.

Newin would have to rely on the military to intimidate political parties by invoking the coup threat. The military is also propping up Newin as its front to pull political strings.

Q : But isn't the People's Alliance for Democracy calling for the soldiers to stage the coup?

A : In my personal view, I don't oppose the coup. But this hinges on what the coup wants to achieve. If the coup is meant to perpetuate the oldsyle politics, like what the Council for National Security did, then I disagree. I am in favour of the type of coup designed to overhaul Thai politics.

As a matter of fact, I am not much different from the red shirts. If the soldiers stage a coup to grab power, I will fight. If the coup is for a complete change, then I differ from the red shirts. I still see the need to uphold the monarchy. But the red shirts are not so clear on this issue.

My key difference from the red shirts is that I uphold the three pillars - Nation, Religion and Monarchy. The red shirts and I share the same goal for social revolution.

Q : How should the "new politics" be launched?

A : We should outline the principles for the country's administration before spelling out the administrative measures.

I do not hate the red shirts. I think certain red shirts have good intentions although, firstly, they do not have correct information, and secondly, they are unaware that they have been used.

Many think the red shirts and the yellow shirts are problems.

They always think this way. But do you really think society will be peaceful if you can get rid of the two colours? Peace means no protests? The absent of protests - is it a good thing or a bad thing?

It is stupid to assume that the problems will go away by getting rid of the yellow shirts. In India, Mahatma Ganhdi roused the Indians to fight. He was killed but the independence movement did not die with him.

Q : The soldiers have the lesson of the Black May incident in 1992. Why do you think they still try to grab power or collude with politicians?

A : I see the problem in two parts. First, the incumbent military leaders were groomed by Thaksin. Anupong and Prawit are close to Thaksin. Prawit is close to barred party executive Sudarat Keyuraphan.

Second, greed is the driving force behind capitalism. Top generals are expected to send their children for further studies in England and the United States. The expense amounts to millions of baht per year. Money and greed overshadow goodness and ethics.

Q : Aside from a few generals, other soldiers are still good?

A : I am not saying Anupong and Prawit are not thinking well. I say they are not thinking things through.

I don't think the military will dare to seize power because the people will not tolerate another coup.

After being shot at, my worst regret in spilling my blood to the ground is, I think, my blood is no different from that spilled by soldiers defending the border. I was shot at because I defend the Nation, Religion and Monarchy. I regret I was shot by the people who should defend the same things I am defending. This is my worst regret.

I suppose one could get used to ubiquitous machine guns. People in Germany (1933-1945) most certainly would have agreed with you. Incidentally, why do you say that tourists in Thailand are used to witnessing a strong military/police presence?

(From Breaking News at BBK Post)

PM lifts emergency, but troops to stay

By: AFP

Published: 24/04/2009 at 03:57 AM

The state of emergency in the capital has been lifted, but troops will stay on the streets to boost international confidence in the country, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Friday .

Mr Abhisit said he had ended 12 days of emergency rule both to foster reconciliation with supporters of ousted former leader Thaksin Shinawatra and also to show the world that the troubled kingdom was back to normal......

Right, boosting international confidence would appear as a return to "normal" in the eyes of the international community if troops stay on the streets. Which would be an appropriate example of an international community considering such troop presence as normal: Iraq?

(From Breaking News at BBK Post)

PM lifts emergency, but troops to stay

By: AFP

Published: 24/04/2009 at 03:57 AM

The state of emergency in the capital has been lifted, but troops will stay on the streets to boost international confidence in the country, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Friday .

Mr Abhisit said he had ended 12 days of emergency rule both to foster reconciliation with supporters of ousted former leader Thaksin Shinawatra and also to show the world that the troubled kingdom was back to normal......

(From Breaking News at BBK Post)

PM lifts emergency, but troops to stay

By: AFP

Published: 24/04/2009 at 03:57 AM

The state of emergency in the capital has been lifted, but troops will stay on the streets to boost international confidence in the country, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Friday .

Mr Abhisit said he had ended 12 days of emergency rule both to foster reconciliation with supporters of ousted former leader Thaksin Shinawatra and also to show the world that the troubled kingdom was back to normal......

There is a discussion on whether Abhisit is actually in charge, and to answer this question we should perhaps take a look at the glaring double standard that exists in Thailand.

When the PAD causes chaos and enormous financial loss by shutting down the country's international airport, shooting and fighting in the streets, the army did nothing. When the Reds cause chaos, the army intervenes. Corrupt politicians in the yellow camp, and there are many, are ignored by the judiciary, whereas corrupt politicians in Thaksin's camp who are the elected government of the day are hounded for infractions as small as appearing on a TV cooking program, and expelled from office.

How undemocratic. There is a school of thought that says that Thailand is not ready for a democracy, that the poor majority is too stupid to vote sensibly and should therefore have its representation diluted by the elite. That is what the PAD has said publicly, but who trusts them or the old guard generals and elite who sponsor them and who have never really done anything to improve the lot of the average Thai.

Thaksin's lot are highly unpalatable, but they were an elected civilian government, marking the first time in Thailand's recent history that worn out and corrupt generals and career bureaucrats were not calling all the shots, bickering amongst themselves, and getting nothing done. The PAD tore down a fledgling democracy that was an example to other countries in SE Asia, and replaced it with mob rule. What they should have done was show how much support they really had by beating Thaksin at the ballot box, peacefully. They seemed unable to do that, and now we are in an unending cycle of street violence and Myanmaresque military intervention.

I notice that a lot of foreigners seem to miss this obvious double standard, automatically vilifying Thaksin as the devil incarnate, while holding up Abhisit and his lot as clean and democratic. Looking at the Bangkok Post or the Nation, which most foreigners depend on for political insight, I can see why. They are clearly biased toward the PAD, and have been since its inception.

Abhisit is a nice guy in a party just as rotten as the rest of them. In charge of Thailand he is not.

Good job! An excellent summary of the double-standards now prevailing.

Not sure, the forum lagged there for a few minutes.

I also like google news, but try to fit in some of the Thai papers as well since they cover local news more than any English language ones.

Al-jazeera is pretty interesting and the Aussie news also tends to cover thailand more.

I agree with you sbk (Did I day that??? My God.....), but al-Jazeera is not only interesting; it's incredibly objective in its reporting compared to most other news services. And old George W. wanted to bomb them on their home turf. I wonder why....

People call me and say their responses aren't being posted here???? What's happening???

I thought this post would be useful both for old-timers as well as newbies living in Thailand. For those who may reply, please mention whatever Thai news/current-events-source you read/listen to regularly. No need to state why.

I'll start the ball rolling: I use Google Reader for news and current events about Thailand.

Our Eaton/Oxford-graduate Prime Minister contends that the red shirts who declared "Victory" at having stopped the ASEAN Summit in Pattaya are public enemies. Didn't the PAD also declare "victory" after seizing the airport? But the PAD are not public enemies because they ARE the "Public".... right? I'm trying to understand the logic of what could not possibly be hypocrisy and contempt for the masses on the part of those who govern.

Given that Thaksin previously bragged that the EC was in his back pocket and subsequently, several members of the EC were thrown in jail, it shows that they can be as as corrupt as any other group.

I will never forget when a friend sent the EC new year's baskets of dried noodles. At the time, it was fitting.

I'm sorry, but I don't entirely understand what you mean? Maybe I'm just a little slow, but... Can you re-word all that, please? Thanks in advance.

From the BP today :

Puea Thai hands EC donation info

Puea Thai accused Democrat party of receiving an illegal donation. Puea Thai party handed over evidence relating to the controversial 258-million-baht Democrat party donation to the Election Commission (EC) on Friday.

Mr Prompong said he was confident the evidence submitted would lead to dissolution of the ruling Democrat party if the Election Commission uses the same standards when it used when dissolving the Thai Rak Thai, People Power party, Chart Thai and Matchimathipataya parties.

In the past some have voiced serious doubts about the independance of the EC, here we have a great occasion to prove them wrong

The Democrat Party will not be dissolved, regardless of any preponderance of (legal) evidence against them. Their friends --the Establishment if you will-- can not condone that..... at least for the time being.

If they are up to eyeballs in politics, how come it can't be seen anywhere?

If you removed your yellow blindfolds, I'm sure even <snip> you could

see