wijar

On 15/04/2018 at 8:29 AM, professor plum said:

I would like to know if anyone out there can give me an idea of how much 2300 rubber trees can pull in a year profit only as my trees are about to yield, i don't seem to be getting any information at this end, my trees are in the north eastern region if that's any help. Thank you.

There only a few variables to establish that; Soil condition, Tree age, girth, fertilizers used, weather, temperature, tappers ability to make a clean cut, rest/tap cycle. So if you can just make a stab at those and then guess each trees production it should be relatively easy to work out your profit. oh don’t forget how you share the value of your sales with the tappers, and who then pays for the fertilizer and its distribution.

Peaced of cake really. Hourly rate as a mechanic is better by the way!??????

Nice word this "misconception" bit. Still wandering what this misconception "we" are working to. I think there is a misci=onception here, that we care about an opnionless opinion.

I appreciate where you guys are coming from and I understand that you are both not tapping for rubber as yet but soon will be. Tthere are some misconceptions that you are working too.

and these are..................?

Hey Wijar good to hear about the rain. Where are you located.

between Phitsanulok and Pichit

Army is coming around this afternoon checking land rights

What area are you living?

We haven't had a visit from the army (yet) but we did get another visitor! The first rain has arrived. Time to fertilise and see how many trees are "still standing"

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sold 20.6 baht today, up 40 satang from last time. I see on the morning news that sheet has been going up this week (daily) 50 plus baht....

Interesting to see that sheet is 2.5 times more than kee yang. I realise that making sheet is more labour intensive, but is it also so much more cost to produce for power and chemicals? I would have imagined that the tappers would love to work a few extra hours to "double" their take. I went the rubber way a few years ago, but not at tapping stage yet and would probably investigate seriously to make sheet rather than kee yang.

Hello experts!

At what point (measured in years or trunk circumference) does it become unnecessary to fertilize rubber trees? Or do we fertilize forever?

Thanks in advance.

I would guess just before you cut them down for timber. It lives, it eats, the better it eats the better it lives. I don't think I would stop fertilizing the trees

Hello experts!

At what point (measured in years or trunk circumference) does it become unnecessary to fertilize rubber trees? Or do we fertilize forever?

Thanks in advance.

I would guess just before you cut them down for timber. It lives, it eats, the better it eats the better it lives. I don't think I would stop fertilizing the trees

It seems that every day I see more rubber tree plantations, that I didn't know were there. I guess the trees getting to the stage that from a distance you can tell their rubber. Also I understand that the Chinese have planted large amount of trees in Cambodia. I would say that in the next 10 to 20 years there is not much chance of the price getting much over ฿70 a kilogram, and I think that's being pretty optimistic. I think I would investigate selling the trees as lumber. I heard that virgin rubber trees sell at a premium for lumber. Now would be the time to do it, before everyone starts to do it and the lumber price drops, if it hasn't already.

Interesting. When does a tree stop to be virgin? After they are cut? What is the diffence, when all you cut is bark?

Five or so years ago, several people tried to turn me on to the amazing potential of raising rubber trees. I thought, "Wow! If everyone's doing it, I better run like hell! In 5 years when all these trees come online, the market's gonna crash!" And sure enough...

with your foresight you don't need to worry about anything. I am sure that you have made your millions in the stock market. Surprising that you haven't been picked up by the "motley fool's" yet!

Im in Sukhothai and no sign of rain for us

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I am in Qatar and it was raining this morning! Philok has no rain either!

Yo ! Back again, after being told i'm a very naughty boy by the moderators for not being subtle enough on a subject we are not meant to discuss in this country, and banned for 30 days.

Anyway, 32 baht per kg, kee yang at auction yesterday, Udon. We stopped tapping on monday for this season, start again in 6 - weeks.

Welcome back! Now only jim and the forum is complete again!

Drive around, you will find them new at m/c dealers, made in China. Not cheap though, and not 4 wheel drive, don't know how good they are. Otherwise check out Baht And Sold for proper, larger ATVs inc 4 wheel drive. Again, not cheap. I have seen older 4x4 Ford Rangers etc going for as little as 200k.

Mike.

Hi Mike

Thanks for that. I saw a 2009 Yamaha 700 (Grizzly) advertised for US$5300, but haven't had a reply from the "owner". I reckon these could be nice machines to collect the rubber and assist during fertilising etc. As I am not (yet) living in Thailand full time I am more relient on "my colleagues" like your self. Wim

Hey guys and gals

Something totally different. Who knows where you can get a decent ATV (quad) bike for the farm. It will save me from having to buy a 4x4. we are rural enough not to have to worry about road access, but during the rainy season we only have tractor access (egress more important actually).

1 and 4, yep you are correct. 2 and 3, no, not a problem. Tapping 2400 trees with a 200 baht rainguard is getting on for half a mil, that's my annual net profit wiped out. 5000 trees would be a cool mil. Sorry, no way. The 70 baht rainguards i've seen locally are crap, and would not work effectively.. Ya just gotta tap when ya can in the rainy season, mornings, evenings, anytime to keep that tree in synch.

Mike.

I can see where you are coming from, but I also believe that with some shared ingenuity and a little bit of money we should be able to come up with an idea that will do the same for a lot less money. I'll take time, but should be worth it! Wim

I have attached a report released in Oct 2012, that explains how the Thai Public debt is managed. It doesn't not deal with the rubber industry in detail but refers to the budget allowance. Thailand funds almost all of its debt from the domestic market, including the rice pledging scheme. Well worth a read, perhaps should be moved somewhere more appropriate.

Financing Thailand Maybank 2012.pdf

I read that they pledged 30 billion baht last month but already down to 20.

The only "pledge" that I know that holds its "shine" )at least for a while) is the one you buy in a bottle. Wim

So i guess my next question would you all sell and get out if wouldnt take a loss. and no i do not want a rubber farm. Why did you get in in the first place?

Why are you so interested in rubber farming if you have no interest having one?

Well i have an idea for a farming venture and am wondering if us farang's got into rubber just so wife/girlfriend had a fall back plan or if it was something they were passionate about or if just for the money. And am just comparing cost of rubber/land and time to my idea. Mine 5 rai 3yr to profit of 3-5 million baht a yr but like rubber no guaranties but in the last 100 yrs demand has always been more than supply and on this small of scale you would be considered boutique thus raising price of final product.

I did not mean to waste anyones time just if you need solid info you go to the source thanks for all the replies.

Tj,

So you're planning on planting some saffron or the likes of some expensive product then??? I'm asking for this info mutually.

I am not sure, but to achieve a return of 3-5 mil per annum on 5 rai, you'd have to be planting a illegal crop like the the 5 fingered leaf plants. Not advisable.

To make that kind of return with rubber you'd need about 500 rai of land, and a lot of trustworthy employees. Wim

Rain guards - you guys actually need to attempt this physically with your own hands on the bark of the tree ! I've tried it, and the only way to stop water getting past is with a semi permanent seal which sets into the bark's skin and all the tiny nooks and crannies. It aint easy, hence you never see rain guards here.

Gents

It looks like I need to find some mature trees to do trials on. I am sure there is a solution, but need guinee pigs to trial ideas. Will have to wait till I have some longer periods in thailand. Luckily I have a few years yet (if any at all with the doom and gloom expressed in here) Planting 2500 trees this week, ordered and paid for them allready so no alternative, but to keep going!

May have to consider upping the antee, or stepping out, but am not prepared to the last one yet. Rather increase the are to 200 rai (I think)

Wim

I agree. There is a drawback too. I think we should follow Vietnam. They also tap in rainy season. But we also need technique and experience to do so. I saw one plantation try to do and the bark get wet even with rain guard.

They've used rain guards in India for some time and there were some good reviews.... Perhaps some more research is needed as we're in the same predicament - not enough rain to start tapping, then too much rain to prevent tapping....

Gents

It been a while that i wrote, but have kept a close eye on this blog. We are a medium size (stratin) operation on Phitsanulok with about 100 rai planted. I call that medium as i have seen comments about 20 rai and also about 1000 rai.

I read with interest this latest thread about "rain hoods" and use of these in india.Indeed more research is required in suitabilty and cost to see if it warrents investing in them. I believe that with we could do that together by grouping our resources to have this done/or do it ourselves.

I am not yet, trees are only 1 year old, but believe that we need to make the best use of our resources, our trees in this instance, to sustain our "(partial)retirement fund".

I am not sure how we could group to make this happen, as some of us are still gainfully employed in foreign lands. But i would be interested to have our farmer, read UIL, attend and support an effort.

The prices are nothing to wright home about, so we need to up the anual production in stead.

I am keen to find out if there is support for something like this "cooperation".

Wim

It can probably be done, but the soil ball should at lest go out to the widest leaf. Just a guess though and depth ???

Thanks mosha, I will let you know if this one lives ,but as I said not a bit of soil on him ,he's a baldy.pissing down rain today so will check tomorrow .will get a photo up soon too.

Off topic, but are you by any chance, like myself, a Hunter S Thompson fan?

On topic, moving 3 year old tree, you may be lucky, but i doubt it.

Guys, I have been told that the best way to try and move an older tree is to prepare one half of the "ball" first (make the cut at 180^o to depth)and a month later do the other half. Gives the tree some time to recover from the original shock. Wim

hi,

thanks for the quick replys. i have managed to borrow my daughters phone and have taken photo of problem tree. the tree is in my garden at home and is one of one so no problems really, but would still like to save it. you can see the leaf lose and the bark at the top of the tree (trunk) is cracking, the lower end of the tree still sound. any ideas??

the plantation trees do not suffer from this problem (thank god) and are in the care of the workers, i have asked their thoughts on this one damaged tree but all i get is die loa. not the answer i want really.

Hank

do you have photo's of the white "root rot"?

Wim

hi, does anyone know anything about root rot (white) of termite damage again to the roots???

i have afew trees that look in distress, leaf drop/ yellow leafs then too bare branches that are then dead. slowly the tree turns from a healthy one to a near dead. i say near dead because the truck of the tree is still sound, but for how long......... any ideas on what the problem could be/ or cures? will try and gets some photos later on.

also is it normal for older trees 7 years ++ to start to loose the first few tiers of lower branches. ie leaves no longer form, hence branches die off? the above canopy is dense on these trees.

hank.

Hank

I am not one of the green fingered guys in this blog, but some of our learned friends in this blog maybe able to recognize what you describe better if it were accompanied by some pictures. TC Wim

Yep dry season is over.Another 42 mm in the rain guage this morning.Still raining all day today.

We will open when this rain stops.Will have had a closed season of 4 weeks on Wednesday.

Issan folks don't need to worry as you all seem to have a lot more trees than us southern folk.

Had our Mon Worker up on our roof cleaning the leaves out of the gutter round the house.Pissing down rain so hard ,water was over flowing.

All the bananas are smileing and the chillis.1trillion yung also are very happy too

Go the yang farmers

Cobbler, you are lucky, last time I asked someone to clean my gutter, they removed it. couldn't block anymore with leaves and dove nests! Had some logic to it I suppose.

Thank you for your opinions , much appreciated . I would like to earn around 120,000 baht per month . To achieve this I am prepared to continue working my " day job " and buying more land until I feel I have enough . I will probably diversify a little . While I intend to go mostly rubber I would also like some sugar cane which will give me some earn in the short time .

Anthony

Anthony

You and I are similar in our thoughts, although 120k/month is quite a high target. I am still making oil dollars and will continue to do so, untill I have achieved my goal, which is to be 100% self supporting from the farm. The savings will then become the "rainy day" slushfund.

If my calcs are correct, based on 30 baht per kilo as my share, with a production of about 350 kg/year/rai you'd need about 180 rai in producing rubber trees.

The sugar at the moment, I have just cut about 30 rai, gives you maybe 200k per year, whereas, at the calculated rate above for rubber, this would be 300k/year. Of course these calcs are based on figures gained on the "open market" and I am sure that some farmers will produce more than the quoted 350kg/yr/rai, as much as there are those that don't make that production. All dependent on health of land, type of tree, level of care etc. At present I have about 4800 trees and am planning to put the 30 rai sugar plot into rubber as well this year, so should near the 7000 trees mark. I'd be half way there, I suppose.

Good luck in your venture and let's hope that the rubber price doesn't take too much of a dive (in 5 years time that is).

Wim

No idea, but 21 month old trees that are 6m tall is DAMN HIGH! As i've said before, stick to 20-10-12 as a fertiliser, possibly try 18-4-5 as a one off. Perhaps they've been over-pruned, but without "being there" or photos i dunno.

Mike.

Can't see a tree growing 6 meters in less than 2 years and still be healthy. Elephant shit mixed with some special goo, or some hormonal treatment may do that, but ......................, willem