nietzche

just as a matter of interest, what sort of rates are the norm in China?

It varies greatly depending on the region (as a result of cost of living). An American friend of mine was earning $4,000/month + accommodation paid for in Shanghai.

He and his wife recently moved to an international school in Bangkok. They are receiving 90k baht a month + 15k/month housing allowance (each).

Another friend of mine earns $2,500/month ($3,000+ with overtime) in a city in the south which has a very low cost of living (he is not a certified teacher).

From what I hear salaries at the top schools are on par. The difference is that in China there seem to be a hell of a lot more perks and potential for extra money, bonuses, etc.

First, I think it is hilarious to mention "money" and "teaching" in one sentence!

I'm retired and fortunately have more than enough income for a comfortable life in Thailand. But after 3 years of retirement, I got bored. So my wife and I started running free English classes in her old neighborhood which were very popular and successful. We covered all the expenses ourselves, including an assistant. It was so successful that the head of village applied for government funding which was granted. He pocketed the money and even refused to pay for the assistant. The next week we closed the classes. Thais tend to equate "free" with "worthless", and "farang" with "stupid".

So I took a paying job with work permit 8 years ago. I've been head teacher for the last 4 years. It keeps me busy, and happy, but I don't earn any serious money. Very few teachers do.

If you want to make enough money to live a comfortable middle/upper middle class life and then have a retirement, go home. Get a real job that pays real money. And retire in Thailand when you know you have enough money to live, also considering that the cost of living always goes up, not down. Good luck!

I will both agree and disagree with this post.

Let me address your first statement "I think it is hilarious to mention "money" and "teaching" in one sentence! ".

I currently teach at a very reputable university in the middle east. I earn a tax free salary of around $70,000 per year. My accommodation is paid for by the university and I receive other benefits such as round trip airfare each year, annual bonuses, etc.

Even though I travel regularly and buy some small luxury items, it is impossible for me to not save at least of $50k cash every year. I am 30 years old and am on track to purchase my first house outright back home in the U.S in a few years. My friends whom still work in the financial sector back home are a couple of decades away from paying off their mortgages.

I never went into teaching to make money. I made this career change for the purpose of living a better quality of life with plenty of time off to pursue other things. Even if I earned 150k back in the U.S. I would never be able to save as much as I do now.

I think my situation contradicts your original statement. Even English teachers out here earn enough to put away $30-$40k per year. You may be basing your assertion on the experiences you have encountered during your time in Thailand.

I do agree with your advice that younger teachers in Thailand should go home (or to a high paying country) and put a big chunk of money away before moving to Thailand. I spent 2 years teaching at a top 3 government university in Thailand. I earned around 40,000 baht per month flat. No perks, etc. This was not a big deal for me as I came over with some savings and only planned to stay for a short period of time for the life experience.

Almost every person I met in Thailand who arrived with no money still had no money when they went home eventually. The phrase "lost in Thailand" is a very true one. Do not make the mistake of spending your most financially productive years in a place that does not pay a highly qualified teacher a livable wage. I have met far to many long term Thai expat teachers who were living hand to mouth and putting up with abusive employers as a result of financial desperation.

My goal is to return to Thailand later in life, however; I will do so with financial resources that ensure that I do not need to work there. I like teaching and would like to do it again in Thailand out of enjoyment, not necessity.

You'll get a ton of people coming on and telling you that it's impossible to live in Thailand on 50,000B p/m and a load more saying they couldn't spend that much if they tried.

Yes it is possible. Very possible. Especially if you don't drink or pick up bar girls....but if you don't then why the dump that is Pattaya? It can't be for the beaches or culture.

Like the above poster said, you will get tons of people coming on here telling you that 50k is a night out for them only, but in Pattaya 50k will provide a very good standard of living if you don't drink all the time and pick up too many girls.

If you're prone to traveling home several times a year and vacationing regionally every couple of months, then maybe not. But as for day to day living expenses, I would say yes its good.

we miss a point - this is a very exclusive 'branded' MBA study in Thailand, not a school just for anyone out there. yes, extreme numbers in the fee, but almost no one would pay their own fee out of their own pocket. every year new applications are about 5 to 8 times over quota.

please search Sasin Alumni then you know who were there - all presidents, CEOs of big property developers, telecom providers, retails and marketing groups . . . the power of network !

this is the 'top gun CLUB', but not the 'top gun school' and they don't need to go through the 5G test.

Yes, the power of the network. This is why many pay up to $180,000 to do an MBA at Harvard or Yale.

The website lists the student population as being 15% non-Thai. For a non-Thai what is the benefit here as non-Thai's would never be given a job that a Thai could do.

If they decided to go back to their home country their degree would be worthless.

I have a friend who studied at HKUST (top 30 university in the world). Even they had a distinct disadvantage to US graduates in terms of landing top jobs.

Chula is not ranked by most university ranking ogranizations

Actually, it is. Ill wait while you check...

Yes, you are right. It's ranked by the Times Higher Education as being somewhere between 200 - 250th in the world.

Not terrible, but not good either.

I have a friend back home (29) who is currently dating a 48 year old woman. She is the ex wife of a wealthy lawyer, and apparently made out very well in her divorce.

It has been 2 months so far and she has taken him on holiday to the south of France, bought him thousands of dollars worth of cloths, multiple gadgets (iPhone, iPad, et.), takes him out every other night and pay's for everything.

He has a good job and is ver well educated. He told me he doesn't have sex with her, but I'm not sure if he's telling the truth.

I was telling this to a group of Thai girls in a bar on a recent trip to Bangkok. To my surprise they all thought that this was terrible and he was a bad guy for doing this.....

Is this a double standard or what.....

For the record, yes, he is only with her because she buy's him stuff......

Plenty of men in Thailand that shouldnt have trusted in their girlfriends/wives mainly because they were naive idiots that let their small head do the thinking. You wont hear many success stories on this forum as its a place for old farts to vent their spleen. If you are 50 and marry a 22 year old chances are the relationship is not built on anything more than a sad gullible old mans last stand, and a conniving little crumpets greed. In this case buying a house in the other halfs name would not be recommended...and yet you hear the same stories again and again. They will be on here soon enough, telling all and sundry that all Thai women are money grubbing whores, that you cant trust any of them...you read it on here all the time.

Anyway on a more positive note. There are decent women in any country( along with a smaller pool of bad ones with a steady supply of idiots to prey on). I trust my wife and her family as much as I would if she were born in my own country, its no different. I choose to associate with decent people, I have a good bullshit detector. If you are a naive that goes there to find love in a bar then you reap what you sow.

Men back in the US and UK lose their homes to their wives all the time also (or at least half).

It's a chance you take if you get married. At least in Thailand the most you will probably lose is your home. In the US you could lose half of everything (boat, car, investments, etc.). You could even be stuck paying alimony for the rest of your life.

Also remember in Thailand that if a woman has been married before she is perceived by Thai men as being used goods and it will be difficult for her to remarry.

There is dual pricing in Thai universities..Thai and foreign. Believe me, I know. I've been shelling out for this for 5 years and counting (my niece). Even in the "internastional "colleges/programs, Thais pay a different rate.

And yes, the rates for foreigners are high. Though I haven't encountered as high as what you quote for Chula. Are you sure this is tuition only and not inclusive of estimated living costs?

Yes, this is for tuition and fees only (including books). It does not include housing and other expenses.

The website states that students should budget for an additional 60,000 baht per month in living expenses (which is funny, because I have friends who are teachers and they are told that 30k per month is a good salary and enough to live on in BKK )

we miss a point - this is a very exclusive 'branded' MBA study in Thailand, not a school just for anyone out there. yes, extreme numbers in the fee, but almost no one would pay their own fee out of their own pocket. every year new applications are about 5 to 8 times over quota.

please search Sasin Alumni then you know who were there - all presidents, CEOs of big property developers, telecom providers, retails and marketing groups . . . the power of network !

this is the 'top gun CLUB', but not the 'top gun school' and they don't need to go through the 5G test.

Yes, the power of the network. This is why many pay up to $180,000 to do an MBA at Harvard or Yale.

The website lists the student population as being 15% non-Thai. For a non-Thai what is the benefit here as non-Thai's would never be given a job that a Thai could do.

If they decided to go back to their home country their degree would be worthless.

I have a friend who studied at HKUST (top 30 university in the world). Even they had a distinct disadvantage to US graduates in terms of landing top jobs.

Chula is not ranked by most university ranking ogranizations

About 8 years ago when I first visited the Soi 11 area, you could find plenty of small bars where you could sit and talk to other westerners who were stopping off for more than one night.

Last week was my first time back in a few years. All of the little bars have been replaced with large commercial pubs or massage parlors. The places I did go to, New Wave, Gullivers, etc. were filled with Arabs who sit at the bar looking angry (no offense to Arabs), and have no desire to speak with westerners (especially Americans).

And yes, every bar and club in Sukhumvit is filled with working girls....what do you expect. This is why it is a popular tourist area.

For us the changes may not be ideal, however, they are in line with an area that is prospering economically. This is good for the locals, especially the small stall owners who sell clothes and electronics. They appear to be thriving.

This part of the world is doing a lot better in general. Prices are falling in line with other large cities in Asia. But compared to cities like Hong Kong, Singapore, and Shanghai, a night out is still peanuts.

Stop complaining

wow . . . interesting to know ! OP ( nietzche ), can you help to attach the university links ?

in International post-grad, course fee per different field of studies. but what study could bring up to this number ?

I have posted the link to their website below (I apologize in advance if links are not permitted in the forums).

http://www.sasin.edu/programs/phd/tuition-scholarships.html

I have no idea what could be driving the tuition so high. It certainly isn't as a result of professor salaries or research facilities, as this university produced almost 0 tier 1 research.

Their tuition fees are in line with those of Yale, Harvard, NYU, etc.

I can only assume that they believe that if they charge tuition fees in line with the world leading universities, then people will perceive them as being such.

They have some impressive faculty members listed in this program (from places like U Penn, Northeastern, etc.), however, if you did a bit deeper you will see that these people are listed as visiting faculty only. How often they visit is anyone's guess.

I really just can't see anyone in their right mind dropping $100k to study at a university located in a country that has a notoriously poor educational system.

To put this into perspective, the leading universities in Asia (University of Hong Kong, HKUST, etc.) charge around 75% less for the same degree program.

Cambridge University charges around 40% less.

What am I missing?

Nice broad sweeping statement, I am sure there are some nutters here but many good guys too. As long as your not looking for friends in the bar scene then there are plenty normal guys around.

There are many psychopaths here, but there are also a lot of decent people.

They may be a little harder to find as they probably aren't frequenting the beer bars in Pattaya.

Many farang living here in Thailand are indeed running away from something. We can all agree on that.

But many are also here for positive reasons. Many retirees find it difficult living on a meagre pension in their own countries, so emigrating to Thailand makes economical sense due to the lower cost of living and lax immigration.

When I lived in the UK I cannot even recall how many reports I saw of old age pensioners dying of hyperthermia because they didn't have enough money to put the heater on.

Not much chance of that here.....

If you do a search for air guns, I'm sure the subject has been covered extensively. A slingshot, available everywhere in Thailand, would do the same job.

I agree. I spent a few day's at a temple in Bangkok some years ago. The monk's seemed to fare well with a slingshot.

I'd advise against carrying anything that even resembles a real firearm.

So, so many Thais are just clueless about history and perceptions beyond the borders of their little Thailand universe.

Absolutely.

I first witnessed this a couple of years ago in the South. A Thai guy was sitting outside a 7/11 with a swastika tattooed on his hand. I was about to say something to him when my girlfriend stopped me.

It would have been an exercise of sheer futility. Clearly he did not realize that Hitler was a white supremacist who would have thought of him to be lower the pond slime.

I don't put this down to maliciousness, just a pure lack of education.

If such stupidity exists here in Thailand, one can only wonder what an earth they actually learn is school. WW2 was kind of a big deal..........

I thought it was just me that wanted to smack the sunglasses of peoples head in clubs...

I am a very tolerant man, but wearing sunglasses indoors really peeves me off.......

Unless your Bono or Gadaffi, take them off.........

These guy's have earned the right to act like douche bags.......

A friend of mine got caught with about the same amount as you 6 years ago on Koh Phagnan.

He didn't let it get that far. Paid 1,000 Euros before he was formally charged. Released from the police station and was free to continue his holiday.

You alway's have the chance to buy your way out before it becomes formalized.

If you want to mess with drugs in Thailand you should be prepared to pay a bribe or pay an equivalent amount in fines and lawyer fees.

The amount my friend paid in bribe was around the same amount that it would have cost him in the above fees.

Tell them you are paying the bill at 7pm, usually works a treat.

I found that ordering a couple of bottles of Johhny Walker at the nightclub does the trick.

You will have many new friends coming to join you at your table

I recently met a young Dutch guy who told me that he was studying for his MBA at Chulangkorn University.

I took a quick look at the website and noticed that MBA tuition is a whopping $52,000 (that's USD!!)

Their international PHD program is......wait for it......a meagre $98,000 (again, that's USD).

I did my masters degree at New York University, and although this was around 6 years ago I paid around $35,000 in tuition, and this itself is high for the U.S.

I'm guessing the starting salary for an MBA in Thailand is probably somewhere around 12-15k per year.

Is this simply an excersize in reverse psychology?

Surely people don't actually pay this?

For the record, this university does not even rank in the top 50 in Asia.

Now let me think............... Gold goes down, buy or sell? Gold goes up buy or sell?

You're comment would be amusing if it was actually correct (usually a good place to start). Gold has been decreasing steadily since September 2012. It didn't just bottom out overnight and spur a rush to buy gold. A couple of factors to consider:

1. The type of people who use gold shops are generally those from lower incomes. Same as the check cashing places back in the US. These people aren't hoarding large quantities of cash and monitoring the price of gold futures on Bloomberg to decide when the right time is to get back into the market.
2. During Songkran people buy gifts, just like we do at Xmas. Some of us use credit cards around that time if we don't have all of the cash. They use their gold.
3. The baht is very strong against the dollar as a result of higher demand for the baht which stems from higher direct investment from foreign investors (Check out the recent pronouncement from the central bank). With rock bottom interest rates, Thai banks and financing companies have been lending money faster than they can acquire it. If a Thai bank, financing company, or the government borrows money from overseas, they do so in the lender's domestic currency (say the dollar or yuan). They then convert it into baht, hence the strong demand for baht.

Some may disagree, but it is pretty clear we have a credit bubble here. Home loans and car loans have increased dramatically of recent, however, salaries have remained relatively constant. Pretty clear indicator of what's going on.

I see people buying these bars they didn't strike me as lower class. Don't know that it's much of a bubble as one could have made a couple thousand baht a bar in the past week or so. But I am all for learning new stuff. What does buying a bar of gold for 18,000 baht and selling it in a week for 20,000 baht have to do with a bubble?

Google "Principles of Macroeconomics" and start from there.........

China is looking to expand its military-to-military ties with Thailand, and Defence Minister ACM Sukampol Suwannathat thinks it's a good idea.I don't think is good idea at all.I would never trust the chinese because they are aiming something else

What does either China or the U.S. want with Thailand? Really??

Thailand is a pawn here, yet they do not realize it.

Thailand is as much of an ally to the U.S. as Vietnam was in the 60's and 70's. It's a place to park their bombers and dock their submarines, and stage their wars.

China is no better. No matter what rhetoric comes out of Beijing, the Chinese see themselves as the future rulers of South East Asia. Just look how they treat other small asian nations who they have disputes with: intimidation, etc. (South China Sea). Thailand is no more special than Vietnam or the Philippines.

Myanmar went running into the arms of the U.S. after they discovered what it was like to be an Ally of the Chinese.

This minister is naive if he believes that Thailand can play both of sides to their advantage. When you try to please all the people, you end up pleasing no one.

The wisest thing for Thailand would be to stay the hell out of this, and focus on fixing their domestic political situation.

Is this minister the same guy who was begging John Kerry not to downgrade Thailand on the human trafficking list last week??

Now let me think............... Gold goes down, buy or sell? Gold goes up buy or sell?

You're comment would be amusing if it was actually correct (usually a good place to start). Gold has been decreasing steadily since September 2012. It didn't just bottom out overnight and spur a rush to buy gold. A couple of factors to consider:

1. The type of people who use gold shops are generally those from lower incomes. Same as the check cashing places back in the US. These people aren't hoarding large quantities of cash and monitoring the price of gold futures on Bloomberg to decide when the right time is to get back into the market.
2. During Songkran people buy gifts, just like we do at Xmas. Some of us use credit cards around that time if we don't have all of the cash. They use their gold.
3. The baht is very strong against the dollar as a result of higher demand for the baht which stems from higher direct investment from foreign investors (Check out the recent pronouncement from the central bank). With rock bottom interest rates, Thai banks and financing companies have been lending money faster than they can acquire it. If a Thai bank, financing company, or the government borrows money from overseas, they do so in the lender's domestic currency (say the dollar or yuan). They then convert it into baht, hence the strong demand for baht.

Some may disagree, but it is pretty clear we have a credit bubble here. Home loans and car loans have increased dramatically of recent, however, salaries have remained relatively constant. Pretty clear indicator of what's going on.

I do a lot of trekking and mountain biking. I'm pretty sure its some species of tick. There are over 900 different species.

The large white body resembles that of a tick that has just feasted on someone or something. After they eat they swell up like this and then fall off of their prey to digest. The more bloated they get, the less visible are their legs:

From the bottom, they do appear similar to spiders with the rear legs missing:

You can see that the smaller one (one without enlarged body) has not eaten recently.

If this thing is bloated because it was feasting on you, I'd get yourself over to the doctor for blood tests ASAP. These thing's can carry all sorts of nasty disease.

I buy Venture brand disposable razors from 7 eleven, very good quality and last a long time. I think about 45 baht for two. Also bought a deodorant stick from 7 eleven that I use every day and is nearly 2 years old. I think the english name is Grace but it has what looks like NSB in Thai letters across the top. You wet the stick before you use it, it's the only deodorant I've tried that doesn't cause my armpits to itch. Also very cheap.

I will second these Venture razors. I switched to them from the Mach 3 also. Unless you're a Greek Sasquatch these will do the job nicely.

I don't think it's a bubble as such, more a long-term trend. People can work online now to an extend barely conceivable ten years ago and even retirees have options afforded by the internet such as improved communication.

This may sound crazy, but what interests me the most at the moment is whether 3D printers are going to have a significant effect on global manufacturing trends in the future. I see a future in which more goods are manufactured this way and if this amounts to a 'manufacturing revolution' in somewhere like the US, then current projections about trade and the possibility of a growing Asia will be put into serious question. In this outcome I see a continuation of south-east Asian countries like Thailand remaining popular retirement destinations for future generations.

I agree with this post. I've been researching these 3D printers on eBay, and they are quite affordable. A guy in the U.S. made a working gun from one he bought online for $8k.

I am a big hobbyist and would love to buy one of these in the future. When I was a kid I used to tinker with remote control aircraft, but always had issues precisely fabricating the wings and body, etc. Opens the door to a lot of possibilities....

Most of my compatriots, those expat Americans without a Thai family, have relocated to the Philippines, a few to Mexico, and a few other to South America.

As far as I can see, the bubble already burst.

It has always been very common for Americans to settle in Mexico or South America after retirement. The cultural differences are very small.

I love south american, especially peru and bolivia. Great places if you're an outdoor's type. Lot's of climbing, etc.

Thailand is a great place to live if you have money/income from home. But as another poster said, teaching salaries are the same today as they were 15-20 years ago. Trying to live off 30k/month is nigh on impossible.

Most teachers I have met here realize quickly that it is not a good deal, and move on to greener teaching pastures (Korea, and China), or go home.

One of my friends here set off to China and is earning double what he earned here with free apartment, utilities, and flight thrown in. The cost of living outside of the major cities in China is also considerably less than here in Thailand.

It would be the perfect place for TESOL teachers if all of their beaches weren't polluted, and the women were as attractive as their Thai counterparts.

I wonder if there is a French forum where they are moaning about you all here? 555 We are all there to enjoy and have a good time so try and be a little more diplomatic will you?

I think you have misconstrued the OP.

I like French people and had a good time there. The question pertains to why they are drawn to Koh Phagnan in large numbers as opposed to the other islands.

Additionally, we are not talking large amounts of men looking for a "good time". There is a healthy mix of both men, women, and children.

Seems like a good place to settle for an expat as there is a strong community of decent people there (not just the typical types who come here to drink themselves to death).