JonboyBKK

If you are an American, you can only get a 10 year visa now. I assume the OP is either Canadian or American. The big mistake you made was not posting the question before you started. I could have broken it down in minutes and if you asked nicely maybe I would write you a correct invitation letter with a Chinese company stamp.

You should have never told them why you are going, you should just say its a holiday. All that documentation you have is the reason they made it a hassle. If you read the news they just announced that China is banning all NGO's. I don't want to watch the video again but I think he mentioned the UN. The point is that he gave them a bunch of stuff that made them suspicious so they made it a total hassle. Its the China way.

OP can PM me if he has any questions as I have run a biz in China 11 years.

I think the current rules are very outdated and Thailand actually loses a lot of money and also forces many people to be "tourists" when they would happily pay tax.

I have been "living" in Thailand for over 5 years. Although I have a company in Hong Kong another in China, I choose Thailand as a hub as it allows me both the lifestyle and the strategic location to travel to the place I need to for work. I have looked into every option of visa and due to my busy travel schedule only the Elite visa would be an option as I don't want to open yet another company that honestly I have no use for.

What this article suggests is to be more laid back on foreigners that have certain skills that would be hard to find in Thailand. I don't disagree with this approach but these days its so hard for young people to find jobs across Europe and America you would get many working for slightly above what an educated Thai would accept for a salary.

What I would suggest is a visa for digital nomads that have to meet some salary requirement and pay tax on that salary. If you set the bar at something like $50,000 USD a year and that money had to be moved into a Thai account and taxed, it would not be competing with the Elite visa and it would give those of us that make good money but don't have the time to jump through hoops to make Thailand a permanent home.

I think that many people assume all digital nomads are 22 years old with some stupid blog and I think that's a big misconception. I have a computer science degree, I make plenty of money and I own legal companies in other countries. If there was a way for me to commit to Thailand without hiring a bunch of people than I would.

And to say that you are only a professional if you are a lawyer or a doctor to me means you have been under a rock for 15 years. There are many professionals where you use a computer that is not writing code or writing stupid stories of your travel adventures. Its a new digital world and there are many people that have niche businesses that readers of this forum simply don't understand.

Just as a suggestion I was struggling w gout but I know everyone is different.

I am taking allopurinol 300mg, colchicine 0.6mg and 2x black cherry 1400mg daily. That combo does the trick for me always.

A USA company called piping rock sells the black cherry cheap and I swear by it.

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@Southpeel:
Why register a company if you are a freelancer?

For the reasons that I had stated in my post. If you want to be "legal", and you want to get a real visa and prove a source of income in order to buy a condo and get a loan. There are quite a lot of restrictions to what you can do without a legal visa and we have all seen this year, they can change the rule at the drop of a dime so everyone without one risks a new rule like only being able to stay in Thailand for 180 days a year. I don't mean to answer for Southpeel, just stating the reason I see it worth while.

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I would like to offer another angle on this a someone who considers themselves to be a digital nomad. I think the definitions that the OP gave are a bit too narrow as there are many kinds of people living in Thailand that should fall into this category that are not young and not programmers or daytime traders.

The digital part of the term in my opinion simply means you make money using a computer, whether you are a programmer or simply send emails and close deals really doesn’t matter in the eyes of the Thai legal system. I would define it as follows:
Any person working remotely and making money outside of Thailand, does not make THB, does not have Thai staff, and does not take anything away from the economy of Thailand.

I have met quite a few people with different kinds of situations that are similar to my own. I have a company in HK and another in Mainland China. I have a legal work permit and visa in China and an office with staff in China. I run the entire operation (with some partners) from Thailand and have for years. I could basically live anywhere so I’m just as much of a digital nomad as some young kid programming.

Now when people suggest that I am doing something wrong because I don’t open a company in Thailand, I find it to be a bit obnoxious as I think it is Thailand who is not giving any of us the ability to do so.

In China you can open a WFOE (wholly foreign owned enterprise) for an investment of $100,000 USD over 2 years. You can get a visa and you are a totally legal entity. You do not need to hire staff and it’s relatively easy to get this done. The result is that thousands of foreigners do this and pay tax.

Thailand needs to update their ancient laws and create a new kind of company that people like me can have to stay in Thailand if they want to handle this problem. If it was similar where the invest capital was $100,000 USD in 2 years, you get only 1 visa, and you cannot make THB, this would be attractive to me and also beneficial to Thailand. The benefits for us are that we have a legal visa and we can prove income to banks in case we want to buy a condo or simply settle in Thailand.

Thailand will make some tax and also have a better idea who is a real tourist or not. I think earlier this year, the “tourist” numbers took a huge hit because Thailand considers Digital Nomads to be tourists and some of them are counted as tourists 6-10 times per year. I am almost 40 and I make a good salary so I can just fly to Cambo for a night when I need to.

Anyway, I just wanted to jump in and say there are people that work hard to get this status and we should not all be treated like unemployed idiots.

You can do exactly what your talking about in Thailand currently and if you set a rep office up you don't need employees

Ahh... good suggestion. I looked into this some time ago but didn't consider a rep office at that time for various reasons. Will look into it again. Rarely do I get an intelligent suggestion on TVF so I thank you for your reply.

I would like to offer another angle on this a someone who considers themselves to be a digital nomad. I think the definitions that the OP gave are a bit too narrow as there are many kinds of people living in Thailand that should fall into this category that are not young and not programmers or daytime traders.

The digital part of the term in my opinion simply means you make money using a computer, whether you are a programmer or simply send emails and close deals really doesn’t matter in the eyes of the Thai legal system. I would define it as follows:

Any person working remotely and making money outside of Thailand, does not make THB, does not have Thai staff, and does not take anything away from the economy of Thailand.

I have met quite a few people with different kinds of situations that are similar to my own. I have a company in HK and another in Mainland China. I have a legal work permit and visa in China and an office with staff in China. I run the entire operation (with some partners) from Thailand and have for years. I could basically live anywhere so I’m just as much of a digital nomad as some young kid programming.

Now when people suggest that I am doing something wrong because I don’t open a company in Thailand, I find it to be a bit obnoxious as I think it is Thailand who is not giving any of us the ability to do so.

In China you can open a WFOE (wholly foreign owned enterprise) for an investment of $100,000 USD over 2 years. You can get a visa and you are a totally legal entity. You do not need to hire staff and it’s relatively easy to get this done. The result is that thousands of foreigners do this and pay tax.

Thailand needs to update their ancient laws and create a new kind of company that people like me can have to stay in Thailand if they want to handle this problem. If it was similar where the invest capital was $100,000 USD in 2 years, you get only 1 visa, and you cannot make THB, this would be attractive to me and also beneficial to Thailand. The benefits for us are that we have a legal visa and we can prove income to banks in case we want to buy a condo or simply settle in Thailand.

Thailand will make some tax and also have a better idea who is a real tourist or not. I think earlier this year, the “tourist” numbers took a huge hit because Thailand considers Digital Nomads to be tourists and some of them are counted as tourists 6-10 times per year. I am almost 40 and I make a good salary so I can just fly to Cambo for a night when I need to.

Anyway, I just wanted to jump in and say there are people that work hard to get this status and we should not all be treated like unemployed idiots.

I'm working in coworking space now. I think they are under the radar so far. Especially if you are here working on a laptop, who is to say you didn't come just for the day (which is an option at all of them). I would highly recommend it and I'm loving working at one now. Its a game changer for me in BKK. The 3 have used in the order that I like them are The Hive, Glowfish and Hubba.

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Be careful of repeated tourist visas. Within the past few days I have 3 confirmed cases of people with valid tourist visas being given only 7 days leave to stay when they did visa runs to Had Lek on the Cambodian border. Admittedly they all had passports with many Thai tourist visas but one of these people stays in Swirtzerland for 6 months of every year. As the interpretation of the law is up to the immigration officer it is very difficult to predict with any certainty, what will happen at any immigration office.

This is an important point to me but I can't understand the wording "7 days leave to stay". Are you saying they were shot down flying into BKK with a fresh tourist visa? or are you saying when they tried to extend it they were only given 7 days? And what nationality were they as this is also very important.

I did a run right before the 12th but seems to me they are really picking certain kinds of people to check. I'm American and 30's and its not even a question of them checking because my passport is loaded with stamps and they are not even looking at them or inspecting them at all. I am not going to believe that I will get rejected at the border until I read someone here give their exact details and say that actually got rejected flying into BKK. The reality is just saying they were going to start being strict has already scared a lot of people into leaving the country anyway. If I was Russian or Korean i think I would take it more seriously. 

OP, keep in mind that the new visa rules are not in effect yet and I would wait a bit and see how they are enforcing it. I am in a similar situation, and I plan to do nothing until I have to. If you are in the USA now, I would try to get a business visa. Tell them you are looking to start a company in Thailand and ask for a 1 year mutli-entry biz visa. Probably you would get 90 days which I believe you can extend to 120 days... so we are talking a few trips to cambo a year. 

I'm not drinking the new rule immigration cool aid and I think if you are a clean cut American, they may not even care if you do the visa runs. I am going to wait until after Aug 12 and then try to do a run just to see what will happen. Will let you know. 

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Not true. I have a US Passport and was told I must get proof of income/residence the next time in (which I do have). I am now on a tourist visa, but had several back to back 30 day on arrival. They wrote the requirement on my visa. I have had only one tourist visa since arrival from the USA this year....but 4 back to backs.

I am now fixing the problem with a 90 day O and a retirement extension.

Seems everyone..including Americans (of course) will be screened.

That is very interesting. I specifically asked about back to back 30 days on arrival the ( exit) immigration at the airport about 3 weeks ago. The senior officer there went through my passport ( literally dozens of 30 days on arrival) and said " no problem, this will be ok still". Now I wonder if he is right. I never use land borders are rarely stay more than 10 or 14 days...but that is every month. Now I'm worried about being refused entry so I guess it's best to get a tourist visa ( a major pain).

Yes, all of my friends and I have regularly ask immigration how this will affect Americans FLYING into Thailand in the future and they keep saying, that for you pointing at the passport, there will be no problems. I am not asking what the official stance is as I think its clear. I'm asking what the feeling is that it will be enforced and what vibe people are getting coming in.

As far as we know now officially immigration has not said they will draw a hard line on people only spending 90 days out of 180 days in Thailand. Is that correct or not?

What if you have a residence permit in another ASEAN country like China (which I do)? Would that prove you have a job outside and should be classified as a tourist?

It seems to me that if they enforce the new rules at their own discretion like only checking flights from neighboring countries and profiling which is the approach I think they will take, it will only affect those that can't afford to get around it. I don't plan on doing anything differently until they actually start pushing me at immigration because so far they don't even glance at my stamps. We will see after Aug 12 how serious they are about it but the fact that they already started backtracking on extensions leads me to believe they are trying to get rid of the low end of visa runners. People who can barely afford the van ride to make a run and are really doing jobs that Thai could be doing.

I do think it will change the scenery for the better as most people with low incomes won't be able to dance around the enforcement.

Officially, I believe (though I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong), you need a return or onward ticket OR a valid visa to satisfy airline requirements to be allowed to board a flight to Thailand. If an airline allows a passenger to board without satisfying these requirements they can face fines from the country of arrival, and be stuck with the expense of removing the passenger from the country. I'm not au fait with the law, but I'd expect in the early days of the crackdown the airlines would foot the bill for the removal of a refused passenger who doesn't meet the requirements. 
 
For years the airlines have been fairly lax about these requirements with regards to Thailand, at least for passengers arriving from countries that are eligible for a visa exemption, as there was little risk of them being refused entry. If the worst case scenario occurs, and people start to be refused entry while holding a valid visa (or refused a visa exemption), you can probably expect the airlines to start screening passengers more closely, and maybe refusing to board those who haven't booked a return or forward flight, as they won't want to be left holding the bill when an IO decides Mr Smith has already enjoyed Thailand quite enough for this year. Again, this is a worst case scenario, and it's conjecture in any case. 
 
What I can tell you from experience is that airlines often follow whatever rules they please, regardless of the law, and there's really no way to know what will happen until you're in that situation. I was once refused entry to Mongolia while holding a valid tourist visa (I'd been blacklisted without being informed, and the issuing embassy hadn't checked the blacklist before issuing me the visa). I flew in from Beijing with Air China on a one way ticket, and I was returned to Beijing at my own expense. The flight crew literally walked me to the Air China desk at Beijing airport, told me to empty my pockets and took all my cash as payment for the flight. I was then put on a Lufthansa flight back to Frankfurt, which was paid for by Lufthansa. There's no rhyme or reason, so the best thing to do is have a contingency plan.

The absolute first response with any information that has not been said over and over. You can get a visa by owning a bar but you can't serve. This forum seems to be full of people that love to tell you what an idiot you are for asking for suggestions yet they have zero real Thai business experience. Of course there are exceptions but you know if you are one.

I have been waiting for someone to post something like this as I am too in a very similar situation and see very little practical advice from people actually doing something. Myself, I have come to these conclusions.

I am too busy to go to school and I am not gonna just get married for a visa, the only thing really left are two options.

1. Go to your home country and apply for a one year multi-entry business visa. I have a friend that did this a couple years ago with no hassle, he said he was planning to start a company in Thailand and they gave him a one year 90 day per entry business visa to do research in the country to start his business.

2. Actually start or buy a company. I am leaning towards this one as I don't want to even be bothered going back once a year and I don't want the chance to get denied a business visa. I already have companies in both China and Hong Kong but I don't know that much about the limitations and workings of a Thai company so for both myself and the original poster let me ask some questions to the forum about this.

- Can a company a foreigner owns basically do anything? For example, could I own a small bar, coffee shop or restaurant and have a staff of 4 people and that gets me the working visa? Of course as long as the place didn't take much work and didn't lose money that is a decent option.

- If you open a company does the first foreign visa come without 4 staff or do you need 4 staff to even secure 1 foreign working visa?

Of course I'm gonna wait to see how hard core they get about the whole thing but if you have enough money to throw 500,000 THB for elite status, it would only cost maybe 100,000 - 200,000 to have some business that could hopefully break even every year and maintain your visa.

Now, I have not done this in Thailand so I am in the position for people to shoot my theory down if they have real experience.

Has anyone heard rumor that Americans won't be effected by the new visa run rules? Several of us have still been doing visa run frequently and asking about it on arrival and every time the immigration officer points at our passport and simply says "For Americans no problem for 30 day on arrival"? Considering the relationship between US and Thailand its seems possible that they may keep this policy but of course it would never be announced.

I actually work in this general field so I can probably offer some advice.

Firstly, your HK company would only serve to accept money from buyers but would not work to get you any kind of export license in Thailand. For that you would need a Thai company. The biggest hurdle for this kind of thing is that any country importing pharmaceuticals requires that the product is first registered in that particular country. There are exclusive agreements all over the world and so you can't just jump in and start exporting to countries where the products are not registered and even if they are, there is surely an agent that is importing it in bulk. So you really can't legally do this at all.

I have researched this as well. The upside is that you can own the company 100% instead of 49% like all other foreigners like Maprao stated. The down side is that nothing else is special about it and your right that the 4 Thai / 1 expat rules apply. The only time I heard someone get around this rule is if you have a foreign company and set up an office here to support that foreign company. I have been told that if you invest enough money (10 Million THB) then you can negotiate with the BOI and possibly get unlimited foreign visas. I cannot verify this.

Why would you be double taxed? As a foreign company you are only taxed on your salary and that is if it exceeds 94K USD a year I think is about the rate this year.

Currently in communist China, you can a huge selection of beers from Europe, USA and around the world. I can't understand why nobody has jumped on this in Thailand. Although it's expensive in China (everything is) I can have a Rogue beer on tap in local bars. If you are American, you may know how great that is. I am hoping someone will open the door to good beer in thailand. They even have a delivery service we use all the time in shanghai called cheers-in