AWT1968

On ‎25‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 12:13 PM, Tanoshi said:

You need to get your legalised UK Marriage certificate translated into Thai.

 

As Joe then states:

 

Thank you both for your replies, appreciated.

One further question: We got our UK marriage certificate legalised in December 2016 (the Thai Embassy certified the document on 22nd December), however we didn't actually need to register our marriage in Thailand last year.  We will need to do it this year.  Will the Ministry of Foreign Affairs accept a document that was legalised over 12 months previously? 

In the UK, you get paid for the amount of electricity you generate, regardless of how much you use or export. It would appear that the proposed Thai system would be similar.

So, even if I use all the power generated, I'll still get paid for it-and I won't be drawing from the grid, reducing my bill. The only electricity from the grid I'll be using is at night when the PV installation is not producing anything or when it is VERY overcast.

I have a 4kWp system here in the UK, my electricity bill has reduced by a third and the PV system generates £1,000+ per annum. I can get away with a much smaller system in Thailand to meet all my electricity needs and produce a decent return.

I hope this clarifies things.

AWT

i don't claim to know anything about the UK system but in oz your system is fitted with a 2 way meter. You are only paid for the excess of power generated after personal usage - and the way you describe it is completely illogical.

BTW the new meters being fitted, including to non-solar homes are "smart" meters with a variable time dependent rate. Usage at peak load periods, when solar is not working, will be charged at a much higher rate commensurate with the price paid to producers.

I agree with you, I've never heard about a solar reimbursement system working like that anywhere in the world.

If that would be the case, one would install batteries, so that he can use all the electricity generated, so not a single dime to pay to the utillity company, and get paid for it at a premium rate without uploading a single Kw to the grid.

People would be rich on the back of the government in no time.

I'm sure AWT1968 is confused there.

Not confused at all:

If you are eligible to receive FITs you will benefit in three ways:

• Generation tariff: your energy supplier will pay you a set rate for each unit (or kWh) of electricity you generate. Once your system has been registered, the tariff levels are guaranteed for the period of the tariff (up to 20 years) and are index-linked.

• Export tariff: you will get a further 4.64p/kWh from your energy supplier for each unit you export back to the electricity grid, so you can sell any electricity you generate but don't use yourself. This rate is the same for all technologies. At some stage smart meters will be installed to measure what you export, but until then it is estimated as being 50% of the electricity you generate (only systems above 30kWp need to have an export meter fitted, and a domestic system is unlikely to be that big).

• Energy bill savings: you will be making savings on your electricity bills because generating electricity to power your appliances means you don’t have to buy as much electricity from your energy supplier. The amount you save will vary depending how much of the electricity you use on site.

Once you are receiving Feed-In Tariffs, the rate you get will increase in line with inflation in accordance with the Retail Price Index (RPI). ). The tables below summarise the latest tariffs available for each technology. For the full list of tariff rates visit the Ofgem web site."

Source: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generating-energy/Getting-money-back/Feed-In-Tariffs-scheme-FITs

In late 2011 when PV panel prices had dropped substantially and the tariff was at its original level, people were getting returns of around 15%. The tariffs have now been re-aligned in line with the reduction in costs, and the margin is now 5-7%.

While salesmen will give you great, if unrealistic, outlay recovery times, there are a few other factors to consider.

How much will your house insurance rise with B200,000 of fragile assets added?

What maintenance/cleaning is required, if any? ".... it is vitally important that you take steps to ensure the seals are replaced regularly to keep the moisture out." http://www.ccmep.org/solar-panels-suffer-storm-damage/

What about the capital cost? B200,000 invested @ 9% would pay your B1500/m energy bills. Hard to get 9%, but whatever you could get has to be reduced from your "profit".

OzMick,

I note your concerns.

Here in the UK all solar installers have to be accredited, spending several thousand pounds in the process, and have to follow strict procedures in producing estimated paybacks for customers. There are also many government-backed websites that provide online calculators for people to use too. As a director of a renewables firm, and an owner of a PV system,I can safely say that I believe the projections given. However, that is not to say that there aren't a load of cowboys out there too.

The feed in (generation) tariffs were severely reduced in the UK in late 2011 after commercial investors rushed in to build large solar farms given the guaranteed high rates of return that the tariffs provided. If PV panels gave such poor financial returns, then these groups would not have entered the market and it would still be an option only for 'greenies'. I do acknowledge that they are very expensive for the electricity they produce, and hence the need for government subsidy to promote the panels.

Not sure about home insurance premiums rising buy a huge amount-the minimum re-building cost provided is way more than what is needed, for example.

PV systems are essentially maintenance free, although panels may benefit from a wash during the dry season to remove dirt etc. All junction boxes and connectors on PV panels have an external IP rating (65?) and are sealed to the underside of the panels, so water ingress should not be a problem. In my experience I've never heard of seals failing and needing replacing. Whilst panels have 10yr manufacturing guarantees, inverters (cost between £400-£900 typically) only have 5 year guarantees, although extended guarantees can be provided. Provided the contractor installs DC and AC isolators, an inverter can be quickly swapped for another should the need arise.

I agree with your comment regarding capital cost-taking out a loan is obviously going to impact the return on investment, whilst using cash in the bank to buy a system means you can't use that money towards a car, for example.

Sorry for the long post.

AWT

Let's assume 12 panels X 280W for an average output of 10 kWh/day will cost 94,800b plus all the supports, wiring, inverter/controller and installation for a total budget of 200,000 baht. So if rates go to 5b/kWh next year or so as already forecast then a modest farang household using 10 kWh/day or 300 kWh/mo might have a bill of 1500 b/mo. This would require 11 years to break even not counting depreciation, maintenance etc.

Cloudhopper,

I think you've forgotten to factor in the generation tariff!

10kWh/day produced by the system = 3,650kWh/annum @ 6.69B/kWh = 24,419 Baht/annum AND

Say you consume electricity 50% during daylight and 50% in darkness, then the PV system will provide 'free' power during the daytime, halving your existing electricity bill to 750 Baht/month, a further 9,000 Baht/annum.

How you consume and sell back the produced power at the same time is beyond my understanding.

If you produce 10Kwh and you consume 5 Kwh, than you have only 5 Kwh to sell.

In the UK, you get paid for the amount of electricity you generate, regardless of how much you use or export. It would appear that the proposed Thai system would be similar.

So, even if I use all the power generated, I'll still get paid for it-and I won't be drawing from the grid, reducing my bill. The only electricity from the grid I'll be using is at night when the PV installation is not producing anything or when it is VERY overcast.

I have a 4kWp system here in the UK, my electricity bill has reduced by a third and the PV system generates £1,000+ per annum. I can get away with a much smaller system in Thailand to meet all my electricity needs and produce a decent return.

I hope this clarifies things.

AWT

Let's assume 12 panels X 280W for an average output of 10 kWh/day will cost 94,800b plus all the supports, wiring, inverter/controller and installation for a total budget of 200,000 baht. So if rates go to 5b/kWh next year or so as already forecast then a modest farang household using 10 kWh/day or 300 kWh/mo might have a bill of 1500 b/mo. This would require 11 years to break even not counting depreciation, maintenance etc.

Cloudhopper,

I think you've forgotten to factor in the generation tariff!

10kWh/day produced by the system = 3,650kWh/annum @ 6.69B/kWh = 24,419 Baht/annum AND

Say you consume electricity 50% during daylight and 50% in darkness, then the PV system will provide 'free' power during the daytime, halving your existing electricity bill to 750 Baht/month, a further 9,000 Baht/annum.

Total saving/annum is circa 33,420 Baht, giving a payback of around six years. You've then 19 years of 'profit'.

This does of course exclude maintenance etc. and the depreciation in the performance of the panels etc.

There are two important points to note:

1. It is not clear if the proposed generation tariff will increase in line with inflation, as it does in the UK over the 25 year period.

2. I have not seen any proposed 'export' tariff, whereby any excess electricity produced is fed back into the grid for use by others.

N.B. For those discussing solar thermal systems, i.e. hot water, there is a device marketed in the UK that will divert any of the surplus electricity generated by a PV system to an immersion heater in a water tank, effectively giving you 'free' hot water. For details see:

http://www.swithenbanks.co.uk/Solar_Photovoltaic_Equipment/1130719/Immersun_by_4eco_-_FREE_hot_water_from_your_PVs.html

AWT1968

Having designed PV systems for a couple of years, I did a quick calculation for a house in Thailand (nearest weather data available was from Khorat), based on a 20 degree roof pitch and a SE/SW orientation.

The results are as per the attached-a 2.76kW system (12nr 230W panels) would produce circa 3,800 kWh per year, based upon the annual weather data.

For the record, an average house in the UK uses about 3,300kWh annually, and a 4kW PV system would produce this, now at an installation cost of £6-8k.

PV panels do degenerate over time, after 25 years their output is about 80% of the original value.

Rain will clean the panels, but at lower roof pitches here in Thailand dirt may accumulate and reduce the efficiency.

AWT1968

Typical PV Output-Thailand.pdf

Given the lack of spacers here for the rebar, mentioned elsewhere, I did cast some concrete spacers using ice cube trays (to much amusement of the family!). They weren't perfect, but were better than nothing. When I return to Thailand later this year I'll bring a load of plastic spacers with me ready for the next phase of my project.

Welcome AWT

Re-bar stands, have a look here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/481794-housebuilding-thread/?p=4611322 about half way down the post are some piccies of the DIY stands our contractor used. Moulds made from off cuts of 2" PVC pipe.

Thanks Crossy, that's another good way of doing things.

I guess you'd need quite a few offcuts of pipe to make up a 'batch'. Using the ice cube trays, we could make 14-16 in one go, and after compacting the concrete upturn the tray, tap the top to release the concrete, and then re-fill. The advantages of the pipe offcuts is that they are slightly larger in diameter and have the tying wire cast into them to tie the mesh to.

If there's no room in my suitcase for the plastic spacers, I'll give the offcut pipe method a go and compare the results.

Thanks again.

AWT

I always get a chuckle where I hear the term, "farmers with hammers" used.

In Thailand it is more like Som Tam cooks with cleavers & hatchets. King of the butchers. LOL!

Quote: PVC glue? I do it with my fingers like the Thais. Using a brush does not

stop the stuff being toxic and you'll be throwing away several brushes a

day if you do it that way, I have a 20 Km drive to the next shop.

The main reason to use a Q-tip or brush is cleanliness. Actually all joints should be sanded on both the elbows-connectors or T connections & blown out then apply the glue(primer) with some type of CLEAN applicator. Fingers tend to drag cut PVC particles & grime into the joints. Nowadays just about every medium to lager can comes with a built in brush. A wonderful invention. While you may never have a problem with finger painting it only takes once in a remote are or 1/2 meter- 1 meter buried in the ground to have that small leak that you have to do over to entice you to do it the preferred way.

Just like auto painting No fingers & lots of chemical washes before the paint to keep out foreign matter that can bite you later.

The finger method is the lazy way out & really not recommended unless your name is Somchai!

I've not had a failure with my PVC pipes yet, using my fingers.

I've found that an old toothbrush was very useful for applying the solvent. The brush didn't last for ever (about a week I recall) but it did the job perfectly well.

Given the lack of spacers here for the rebar, mentioned elsewhere, I did cast some concrete spacers using ice cube trays (to much amusement of the family!). They weren't perfect, but were better than nothing. When I return to Thailand later this year I'll bring a load of plastic spacers with me ready for the next phase of my project.

First post today! I've been lurking for quite some time, but I feel quite at home amongst the construction threads.

AWT1968