heyexile

Racial hatred is rife in this country. Any westerner who understands Thai fluently need only spend five minutes in a public place to know this.

Yes rife.One major group considers itself to be the only true Siam-Thais and despises Isaan, the far North, hill tribes and of course anyone actually from outside the geographic borders.

Could the regime finally have its weapon of `reconciliation` here, ie shared racial hatred for a group outside the borders, the despicable, inferior Farang. Would not be the first regime of its type to use an outside bogey man to ensure support for the state. Did this poor German guy fall victim to something like this?

Are his attackers poorer lo-so twitchers` or do they have influential family support which puts them above laws? If the former, then the general attitude from the top re racial inferiority of Westerners may make them feel they can act with impunity as some kind of nationalist `heroes` History shows sick shizt like this all to often, imho

"..... the despicable, inferior Farang."

The same farangs that just landed a rover on a comet ?? :-) That racial position must be hard

to hang onto, well unless you never read the news.

Short hand buddy. Not how I see myself or any of my cultivated western compatriots. Just putting the words into the mouths of bigots, in this case a regime full if you like. I`m suggesting a crime of racial hatred, a fairly well known concept.

Racial hatred is rife in this country. Any westerner who understands Thai fluently need only spend five minutes in a public place to know this.

Yes rife.One major group considers itself to be the only true Siam-Thais and despises Isaan, the far North, hill tribes and of course anyone actually from outside the geographic borders.

Could the regime finally have its weapon of `reconciliation` here, ie shared racial hatred for a group outside the borders, the despicable, inferior Farang. Would not be the first regime of its type to use an outside bogey man to ensure support for the state. Did this poor German guy fall victim to something like this?

Are his attackers poorer lo-so twitchers` or do they have influential family support which puts them above laws? If the former, then the general attitude from the top re racial inferiority of Westerners may make them feel they can act with impunity as some kind of nationalist `heroes` History shows sick shizt like this all to often, imho

Thailand is becoming less of a place to put on the travel list now. I wonder when stats will be forthcoming on just how dangerous Thailand is? I don't mean for foreign travellers but in general..

The Daily Mail did a story on "that" new book yesterday it will no doubt be banned for life for the Mail...........TAT said the writer was "exaggerating"......... OH REALLY!!

Surprised they havent already arrested the writer harming Thailands "image"

If you mean Stapleton "most dangerous tourist destination on earth" guy (also has Telegraph review) then I believe he is not currently in TH so no defamation arrest. No doubt the regime can track him down for "computer crime" type defamation if they so chose.

Copycat tourist attempted murders. Pure evil.

Seems that all the xenophobic gangsta types with some fam money and connections feel immune.

Westerners now `fair game`?. An attitude perceived as coming from the top

Can any of us still really feel welcome in LOSt?

Check out latest book by Stapleton. "Thailand most dangerous tourist destination on earth" "Visitor numbers expected to be down 1m this year.

Edit link lost aol something

Years ago Australia had big problems with police corruption and a Royal Commission was called to sort it out , can the same be done in thailand ?

What a great idea. Unfortunately not poss as said institution is not constituted to act so.

"A military coup in our game does not restart democracy, it only destroys," said Adam. "The Thai military regime hasn't stopped our game, but we're under the radar."

Not any more you arnt

That`s right. Never mind, soon to be replaced with the regime`s own compulsory nation-wide indoctrination/democracy lessons.

Kids today eh, soon to be learning at the feet of masters in Democracy

The Internet is changing things.

Western ways, or just external views that there ARE other ways to be are finally filtering in to younger generations. But we are only just now seeing Internet communication raised politicians coming into power, and they won't take supremacy till many more of the old guard provincial dinosaurs have faded away.

The main issue is 100% Chinese, Kow Tow culture.

It was pretty much bitch slapped in communist China, but still used as a control mechanism, even as the leaders tried to erase Confucian culture. But this didn't happen in Thailand. It was a microcosm even next to it's neighbors. With the exception of Japanese control during WWII they have been an autonomous kingdom and culture. With the switch from Siam to Thailand, nationalism was used to cleave all disparate residents with several different genealogical / cultural links to neighbors. That national exceptionalism being the mechanism for " creating one thai people ", became one of homogenizing to a core set of beliefs locked into an absolutist 'us or them' nationalist ideology.

Now 3-4 generations on it is hard to back off from that 'creation of a state from chaos' nationalist stance that has passed it's usefulness, and is now hampering the country's progress. Kow Tow culture and nationalism, breeds resentment against strangers with different ideas, and a stonewalling of the country versus things that don't promote Thainess,,. That being the manufactured national identity of the last 80 years. 40 and older like these guts above are still steeped to the core in the old ways.

This picture is a microcosm of the culture and it's nationalism using the ancient ways to maintain social control. No wonder the Reds hate this, even as they themselves are caught in the same web of suzerainty within the larger culture. Just cleaving to different leaders with a facade of Maoist and capitalist modern methods overlaid.

As usual, can`t dispute your history.

The creation of a New SIAM-Thai one people nationalist state did seem to fail in that the elites cannot decide which ethnic groups should have been included as `True Thais, One People`. Isaan, Lao, hill tribe groups seem to have 2nd class status and are not Thai enough. Social media may counter massive social control but can of course be blocked quickly within Thailand under Martial Law. Meanwhile lets ban some more books.

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Well this is decent news, only MPs but still a delegation.

According to the anti PM posters He and Thailand are BARRED, but he/and TFM still keeps meeting up, and doing normal business.

Now some news worldwide are not favourable, and some are and here is a non rebuff.

Some posters have indicated that Prayuth and co are barred from Oz this is not so, he can go to OZ anytime he wants,(If Putin can go anyone can) indeed department heads from Thailand are in and out frequently..

In May Australian placed 'travel restrictions' on the senior coup leaders. In addition put on hold counter terrorism exercises & IED training for Thai security forces, a decision which seems, to me, bizarre.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/australia-pressures-thai-generals-over-coup-1401519111

Regarding a post above, Myanmar was invited to the G20 meeting in BNE as they are the 2014 Chair for ASEAN. It is not Australia's decision as to who was or were not invited to attend G20 in BNE.

All top junta members, including the PM, and their families have been PNG in Oz since May. I`d like to see him and/o r his Mrs try to hop on a Quantas for Brisbane and the G20!

This is just another one of those "foreign government understands" propaganda pieces. They are churned out on a daily basis, and are all nonsense that should be ignored.

Spot on. But why do the Brits allow themselves to be used by Prayuths Ministry of Propaganda??

Bad enough, that ginjag hasn't got a clue!!

Not Britain`s finest hour maybe. At least ALL EU missions to BKK yesterday condemned Thailand`s misuse of Defamation Laws to silence the press and intimidate witnesses.

Brit MPs who find themselves at ASEAN events are I suppose likely to try to influence Thai Regime re Business Act, Koh Tao, Martiasl Law if they get the op. Does NOT mean they endorse the Regime`s policies

.http://twitter.com/pakhead

Amazing place this Koh Tao - to say the least!

Some Swiss body missing, another body found without ID while another miracle case of two dead youngsters is being pushed around on the desks of Bangkok and London.

One of the unhealthiest/most dangerous places on earth? Possibly not but Koh Tao will make it into the statistics of islands ;-)

"Thailand Deadly Destination" new book by a Mr Stapleton. See Telegraph review.

"most dangerous tourist destination on earth" "Visitor numbers likely down one million this year" quotes from book out 2-3 days ago

What is the rumour on this one then?

Suicide by shark. Mental disturbance as knew too much about `something` I hear.

More seriously, does seem to be a few more drownings than usual?

Poor guy RIP, oh and where is the Swiss one now?

Things have become a bit quiet lately, nothing new to report I guess. Stalemate? Impossible to make a move without losing face? What now? Indite? Acquit? Where is the CCTV of the AC bar of the night? Helllooo? Anybody out there? Did we find out who was number 9 already? The person with the unmistakable walk, haircut & arm-swing? Hellloooo? What about the speedboat Lucky Duck? Where is it? Will the UK_autopsy report on David show his wounds were from the hoe or conclude with a 99.99% certainty it was a push-knife? Hellooo? How does the RTP avoid losing face? No wonder it has gone quiet. Silence before the Storm!

Active in other related topics like sudden removal of the two top CIB and two top CSD cops in BKK.

Don`t expect to see any further investigation of your influentials who have been cleared. They have so much support in high places and are loyal allies. Can`t hound these respectable citizens. It is defamatory and rightly so. Only regime change could alter that but unlikely as they are clearly above suspicion and beyond reproach which is as it should be.

Koh Tao does seem somehow to have slipped to the bottom of my bucket list. Now below playing with king cobras. Maybe the grandchildren will go instead?

Less than two weeks time to prosecute, last extensions of detainment given by the court. Come 28th the case must be in prosecutors desk, and start proceedings. And seems my prediction is now shared with the lawyers too. (Source: Thai Tribune)

“The Thai police have encountered severe difficulties because they have no eyewitnesses. When the prosecutor’s office allows the case go to court, it will be heard. And then, if there is not enough evidence at that time, [the two Myanmar workers] may be acquitted,” said lawyer U Aung Myo Thant.

In this case, in an extreme case.... in a Thai prison, where there is obviously equal corruption between prisons guards, wardens and key jail personal,.... with the two Burmese victims there,..... if someone in power gives a "specific order"......

.... you know what I mean, do you???

... or should I explain any further...

Well the B2 no longer shackled 24/7 which is good but are being kept in one cell 24/7. I believe they are the only 2 in that cell but not exactly clear. Good for their safety if kept in isolation.

They seem to be getting daily visits but Andy Hall will soon be bogged down in defamation case defense. Handy for authorities but prob still has one from MWRN team looking in plus Myanmar lawyers on daily basis it seems, although prison authorities can always deny access at their discretion.

They are probably safe until court appearance. Unfortunate MVA or drive by shooting seems unlikely now with all the likely cameras. I don`t expect suicide type accidents, food poisoning or the like now. Too late.

Do fear of anything like a proper fair trial given the terrible state of Thai Criminal Injustice System. Hope MWRN, Myanmar Embassy and lawyers, NCHR et al can prevent/preempt usual rail- roading. On the whole their situation is much improved from before and they can be hopeful as can we..

Edit add link.http://twitter.com/Atomicalandy you can see how people are helping with visits.

Less than two weeks time to prosecute, last extensions of detainment given by the court. Come 28th the case must be in prosecutors desk, and start proceedings. And seems my prediction is now shared with the lawyers too. (Source: Thai Tribune)

“The Thai police have encountered severe difficulties because they have no eyewitnesses. When the prosecutor’s office allows the case go to court, it will be heard. And then, if there is not enough evidence at that time, [the two Myanmar workers] may be acquitted,” said lawyer U Aung Myo Thant.

Police file will probably be on prosecutors` desk by 28th, unless they can get emergency extensions from court to pursue new evidence or some delay tactic.

If on their desk, will prosecutors accept it, send it back to police again or ask court for more time to study, prepare, indict and prosecute?

Will prosecutors finally be pressured by `higher powers` to proceed at all costs whatever the case merits?

Will court be pressured to hear case at all costs and do anything excluding outright acquittal? Will they be pressured for a guilty verdict which could be later subject to clemency?

Who knows, many variables and only the junta can really decide on how to proceed. Everything subservient to martial law.

I wonder if the generals vision of a corruption free Thailand is unattainable? Put it another way: corruption and nepotism is so ingrained in Thai culture and its the way things are done that its impossible to get anything done without scratching someones back or bending the rules?

Reminds me of the old Thai movies on TV: someone is always in a gang and there is always a boss and everyone works for one boss or another boss.

As animatic has been explaining, this is not seen as `corruption` per se but as an honorable traditional way of life in Thailand. Thainess, Thai national values if you like.

The new order is all about maintaining, restoring, strengthening core historical Thai value systems and purging the land of alien types of democracy and western influences. They cant rid the land of something which does not really exist in their value system. New style western `corruption` bad. Traditional Thai systems of patronage, family, good. The world outside the feudal generals cant see this, but it is very real to these military traditionalists.

Shame we cant discuss intrigues in other possible institutions but well,TIT still.

animatic #37

Yes good points. Did not mean a police lead coup. Obviously Army can do what it wants but does need support of rest of army. Can`t have tanks from North on the move to BKK so such factions/alliances consolidated during planning. Must have the navy and airforce on board too or at least their most powerful factions, otherwise embarrassing clashes occur.

Some support from `reformist` element of population also needed, hence importance of ven Suthep .Major police support, active or tacit, fairly essential post take over as vigorous policing, crack downs, spying, law and order, prevention of dissent and counter coup activities and so on, difficult for army to manage alone nation wide.

It's not so much that they have done something wrong,

it is more a case of they had hitched their wagon to a horse who is no longer in charge.

They joined one team and stepped on toes in the process, and now those toes are aligned

with a different boss, and they are expected to step back, or in this case most likely they had gone to far,

and must be removed to 'inactive posts', meaning not fired, but run onto a siding out of the tea money train.

Where they can be watched for aiding potential sabotage moves from their old leaders trying to get back in power.

It is classic Thai feudal Kow-Tow methodology, and that runs the police as well as every organization

political or otherwise from top to bottom in the land. It is not per se corruption, because it is a way of life for all.

I understand what you say even though I lack some of way of life historical/political background knowledge from sometime in the past.

It still does not make `sense`. The police are a huge paramilitary force and a large powerful faction had to be on board for the coup to succeed. The complete domination of police dept was consolidated on Aug 20th, see link.

Whose horse could these CIB CSD top guys wagon have still been hitched to? The previous govt? Seems unlikely as their loyalties and positions so aligned with Pol Comm General Somyot. Or will they now be marked as anti-reformist reactionaries? How would they survive the coup planning and implementation stages if suspect to the new order? Some of them are post take over appointees!

http://thaitribune.org/en/hot-issue/5886

A number of Redshirts, who supported the former government, have criticised the photo on social media and accused Pol.Maj.Gen. Abhichart of displaying a political bias by giving the decorating honour to the hardcore Yellowshirt activist.

of course lest not forget a certain "gentleman" living in Dubai, who pinned an medal on a Police official (in full uniform) in Hong Kong and the Police official just happened to be on a "private" trip,

so which is worse, political bias ? or receiving a policeman receiving a medal from a convicted criminal ?

I am sure Fab4 will be along shortly to make excuses or brand Suthep a fascist

what's the difference in this situation? Thaksin was convicted for violating conflict of interest rules in the purchase of land in Bangkok. Hasn't Suthep come under fire for the same thing? Dodgy land deals with his son etc? The difference being Thaksin got charged - and most would agree it was politically motivated - and Suthep hasn't although I guess when a vote is allowed and the government changes yet again until the next coup, Suthep will probably suffer the same politically motivated charges. It's all stuff and nonsense, they're all bent.

Think you will find ven Suthep will be granted full immunity by NCPO,new charter, martial law etc for services rendered to the coupsters since 2010.That`s the least they can do for him as he was vital to their cause. What are friends in high places for? Meanwhile he can hold ugly court in a beautiful Wat.

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So four major sackings at the top of the police in one week and not one clearly defined reson for any of them. The public interest is shat on once again.

So in your expert opinion it would have been in the public interest to leave these people in their top police jobs.

We hear all the time that the police force is extremely corrupt and needs a good clean out yet when top police who are presumable among the corrupt are moved on we see some complaining bitterly. You cant have it both ways, either a clean up starts or it doesn't and the top is a great place to start as it sends a clear message that no one is safe and is a huge loss of face for those that have lost their powerful jobs.

Corruption is fought with transparency and accountability.

Yet, by the complete lack of those two elements in these and other actions of sudden and unexplained police reassignments, one can only suspect there may be at best political motivations involved and at worse greater corruption involved. You can't have it both ways. Well, normally. But with the nation under martial law and the Rule of Law driven by Articles 17 and 44 of the Interim Charter giving the NCPO absolute power, transparency and accountability are not instruments against corruption.

Yes agree. Actually nothing is an effective instrument against corruption when you have an all powerful, self appointed regime with martial law. Criticism illegal, questioning illegal. No accountability to an electorate or an independent free press and the3 interim charter changes none of that as you point out.

Strange affair with the top brass at CIB and CSD. Far as I can tell all those top guys were in place with the blessing of good Pol Comm Gen Somyot and NCPO/PM at least since reshuffle of Aug 20th and probably before. Most of them seem to be connected with the Boss through 31st Class Police Academy and are long standing buddies/colleagues. Certainly some named replacements are but the originals too.

Falling on swords time maybe for the greater good of the reformist regime mission.

Political motivations and/or greater corruption. The influential islanders certainly have great contacts/influence back and forth to the ven Suthep via Surat Thani PDRC connections and maybe via him further and beyond. Wise men say ven Suthep has to be top dog in this menagerie but maybe he owes some favors and does not relish loose lips on inside pre take over activities since 2010.

Clear reason and clear outcomes unlikely because of media restrictions and all the controls.

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So four major sackings at the top of the police in one week and not one clearly defined reson for any of them. The public interest is shat on once again.

So in your expert opinion it would have been in the public interest to leave these people in their top police jobs.

We hear all the time that the police force is extremely corrupt and needs a good clean out yet when top police who are presumable among the corrupt are moved on we see some complaining bitterly. You cant have it both ways, either a clean up starts or it doesn't and the top is a great place to start as it sends a clear message that no one is safe and is a huge loss of face for those that have lost their powerful jobs.

It is fine to remove these people but shouldn't the reasons be made public. OR is it just a reshuffle bringing in top cops who are more friendly to the junta?

Already brought in their own top cops Aug 20th 2014. Good Police Comm General Somyot is NCPO leader/PM hand picked appointee and PM is Supreme Commander Police Dept anyway. See link.

http://thaitribune.org/en/hot-issue/5886

having watched the general last night on tv seems to me he knows what he is doing

if you are going to reorganise its necessary to make changes and redundancies and you do that by getting the top man to do it

and then...

........ you ask your hand picked top cop to fall on his sword?

Or in a different type of regime in other places leaders sometimes resign over scandals.

My question is how many bodies are floating off Koh Tao

Yes. where found, when. Can`t both be the missing Swiss guy can they,

No FB from rescue workers so just have to wait for RTP or have they learnt some compassion and discretion? Or just holding out for higher photo prices? Surely not.

Its fraud and she should be prosecuted , Otherwise this is a very morally sick country.

I`d say option b.

We all have to trust someone sometime. Sometimes that will be our Thai partner, even knowing the risks.

It takes a while, even for an Oxford grad, to grasp the upside down morality and levels of everyday duplicity

common here. We learn the Police are just another gang and that the `law` such that it is favours the Thais,

We have no rights per se, not even those of paying customers!

Middle class euro/us standards of basic honesty, integrity, of knowing between right and wrong, seem rare here. Different value systems.If it suits me today to betray my life partner of last xx+years, so be it. It just shows how smart I am and my friends will admire my cunning. Many hoped Buddhist values would compensate but all too rarely. We have though all experienced wonderful acts of kindness and generosity from Thais at many levels but usually the poorer folk.

There but for the grace of God go any of us. He probably tried to do the right thing by everyone. He suffered, now he`s brown bread. Alcohol, symptom or cause or both? Could have happened to a non drinker too I guess. 38 years old, so sad yet again.

I have no issue with a Buddhist monk bestowing an honorable decoration on this policeman. Thailand is a Buddhist State whose Head of State must be Buddhist.

However, the choice of novice Suthrep as the presenter is problematic given the political and violent taints that follow him. He is still under arraignment for the criminal charge of sedition. There are more respected and senior practioners of Buddhism who have been dedicated to the faith who bear no political or violent taints who could have been called to perform this ceremony.

Whether intentional or not, Suthep's presence is a political statement. If this event goes without government comment, it will further question the sincerity of NCPO claimed nuetrality in its political reforms.

"Army commander General Prayuth Chan-ocha insists on a neutral stance on the current political situation, saying the Army must always stay neutral in politics while continuing to maintain peace and social order ..." - Army spokesman, The Nation 2013-12-17

"Political statement" "intentional or not", that`s a toughie!

This decoration is a police decoration I understand and part of the rewards promised to good officers by the good PM himself?.

It should more appropriately have been bestowed by the PM as Supreme Commander Pol Dept and his right hand the good Pol Commissioner General Somyot. Not a divisive figure like venerable novice Suthep, imho In front of all the Surat Thani RTP at a police awkward ceremony, would have been only slightly less offensive to most..

They all go back decades before the PDRC.

Try and use long term perspective.

And any Koh Tao people bow the knee to Suthep, provincial kamnan. There is no partnership he is far above them in the feudal hierarchy.

No doubt. However the PDRC connections are quite easy to unravel and document. Stuff before that is more opaque to me.

Seems someone owes someone favors in return, even though venerable Suthep is top of the pyramid (well almost). Leverage is a cleaner word than a black one.