TealLA

OK TealLA, you will proceed as follows:

- You will come here as a visitor for 6 months and rent your place of residence for the duration. This will give you time to learn about the country and it's ways. Upon completion of your 6 months "apprenticeship" you will find that Thailand is not an "Investor-Friendly" country unless your last name is "Toyota or "Mercedes-Benz". As a matter of fact, Thailand is especially unfriendly towards small investors, regardless what your Thai GF tells you.

During this learning process of 6 months your investments should strictly be limited to buying daily necessities. Upon completion of this learning process (among other things) you will find with regard to "Rental-Properties" (as far as actual yield is concerned / ROI = Return On Investment), you will be extremely disappointed.

Further: The funds that you have at your disposal qualify you immediately as drastically under capitalized. Under these circumstances (in the inherit unfriendly Business environment concerning small Farang Investors in Thailand), your chances of lasting success are equivalent to sitting down at a Black-Jack Table in Las Vegas.

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I would disregard encouraging comments that have surfaced within this thread. There is whole army of Farangs in Thailand that make their living by supplying legal or less legal real-estate "Agencies" with new "Greenhorn-Arrivals" freshly from the Airport.

How can you identify them? Easy ! Farangs, below retirement age and claiming "to love to work, otherwise I would be bored" are suspicious in the first degree. Stay away from them Most likely= white trash, aiming for your wallet or your signature for some "Business deal of your lifetime".

Live and learn. But especially in Thailand one has to be a fast learner. Otherwise...........

Cheers.

Thanks for taking the time to write a reply to my questions. Much appreciated.

You would do well if you paid attention to what NCC1701A and fletchsmile say. If you lived here in Thailand and you bought rental units then you would be in a situation to look after them because there will be so many details you need to look after when you rent out. You aren't looking at the whole picture as there will be so many hassles in rentals and you will need to be here to fix the problems when they arise. I am not saying that you shouldn't own rentals, just that you need to own them in the correct order in your investment portfolio . Fletch is right when he mentions "REITS" as a better, less hassled, and a good income return on your investment. You need to look at the whole overall picture on portfolio investing in order to protect yourself and your family.

There is no magic involved in investing for retirement (that's what you are talking about) so you can live here in Thailand long-term without all the financial stress of not having enough income to live year after year. It just takes some study time at the library. Learn about investing for the long-term, it is not that hard to learn, then no one can BS you. It will require you to go to the SET library here in Bangkok (next to Queen Sirikit Center) and study books on investing. It doesn't take that much time to learn the basics on investing, you will be better off for it and maybe you will start to like doing your own investing.

I agree dividend investing is one of the best ways to supplement income. But dont you think that investing in SET is kinda risky right now as its at its all time peak? Sure if you have 90k you can invest 30k of it, but investing all your money in the stock market of an emerging country, thats a huge risk!

And theres no way one can retire here with a portfolio of 90k, 400-500k portfolio should be the bare minimum, 1m + would be a more comfy retirement.

I appreciate all of your insight and experience. I'm in my 30's and I'm not actually looking to retire. I'm looking for supplemental income and would likely get involved with some other business as well down the road.

I read your statement and basically you say you are looking to earn enough income to be able to live here in Asia/Thailand on a permanent basis. I believe real estate rentals will give you a lot of problems and maybe not deliver enough income for you to live here full-time. Ninety-thousand dollars, is not enough of an investment amount to allow you to live here. You will eventually have problems with inflation that eats away at your income so in the end you will not have enough to live on. You need an investment that keeps up with inflation and that comes down to equities.

If you buy dividend paying stocks, utilities, property funds, REITS, and other non-cyclical stocks then you might be able to earn enough to live here, but then again you now don't have enough to survive long-term. If you are working abroad, save your money and continue to invest in the Thai SET market until you have enough income to have a decent return and enough to live on, then you can start to think about living here permanently. So many people come here unprepared and in the end are forced to leave because they weren't financially strong enough...do it the smart way and you can have a nice life here.

Thanks for your insight.

You mention that $90,000 is not enough of an investment amount to live there and also that eventually inflation will eat away at my income. I would argue that if you live in an inflationary environment doesn't the cost of all services and goods go up as well.

"if" you had bought about 7-8 years ago when the baht was weak it was "ok" now its really not so good at all, maybe you will get 3-4%, 8 years ago 10+% was what I got in BANGKOK which was the best place to do this.

My advice dont bother "now"

Save yourself a lot of hassle with poor quality construction ( especially water) leading to problems later and shove it in the highest interest account you can.

Units I bought way back 8 years ago cost me 1.1 million baht (5x 30m2 units) close to the BTS

I started renting them for 15k a month as at the time few new units available at my location, over the next 4-7 years rents fell as more stock came online, rent went down to 14-13.5-13-12-11-and last customer 10k a month.

I have since sold ALL the units and they sold for 1.45 million baht, no problems selling if in good condition and location, all were studios, no commission to any agents as..................Wife is an agent!!!

I did pretty well out of them.

I wouldnt buy in the current market

Thanks for all the great information!! How did you have the properties set-up legally? e.g.- wife's name, company, or just low-key off the books so to speak?

Virtually ALL Thai landlords do it off the books,2 were owned in my name 3 in the Wifes, Ill let you speculate on if I paid any taxes??????????

We got a mix of folk half Foreigners half Thai, most were fairly decent never had anyone trash the place, I did all the maintenance myself, youll save a lot of hassle and bodge jobs if you can do this.

We also cleaned them ourselves, it took 2 FULL days to clean a 30m2 studio when anyone left, 3 days if I painted the walls only.

I did pretty well out of these units, with the Wife being in the trade we can sometimes get a desperate seller, we just got a 2 bed for 3 million close to the bts 68m2 which usually sell for 4.1 upwards and the rent on thats about 20-22k its only 3 years old

Thank you so much!! This is exactly the type of information I am hungry for.

Good job on the newer unit you recently purchased.

Have you considered REITs as a way of investing in property?

They provide capital appreciation as well as regular income, and are completely hassle free (no tenants to worry about, no maintenance, etc.) and liquid. Easy to use as part of a complete portfolio which includes regular rebalancing, so easy to avoid at least some of the effects of a property bubble.

The only drawback is you normally don't buy REITs on leverage like you would have with a mortgage, but you're probably not looking at a mortgage in Thailand so that wouldn't be a factor.

And of course look for low fee REITs and don't forget about tax considerations.

Definitely something to look into.

I'd agree with Ludacris, for investment related to property in Thailand, my preferred way would be REITs. Tax efficient, 6-7% yield possible, and if you decide Thailand's not for you, or you want to sell, for whatever reason, they are much more liquid, as they are exchange listed. You just sell and can have the money in your bank a couple of days later. Actually I prefer Singapore REITS that yield 6%, but that's a different story.

My view on property in Thailand is it's for nesting rather than investing. We (or should I say Mrs. Smile) own one condo here, and live in it. Very happy with it, but initially it did have its teething problems, still does sometimes, and getting things fixed is less easy than back in the west. OK maintenance is cheaper here but the quality of work reflects that. I really wouldn't want to be dealing with tenants, vacant occupancies, maintenance and all the other hassles that come with property ownership and renting.

The higher yields tend to come from cheaper places (well less than 1mio) where you can rent to locals - double digits possible sometimes I believe from one or two long term people that seem OK with it - rather than more expensive quality places rented to expats, where you'd be lucky to get the same yield as a REIT. Personally I wouldn't want the hassle of dealing with Thai locals as tenants, where they're at a level economically they can't buy their own place. The yield will be higher but you need to keep more of an eye on things...

I also know quite a few people that have bought a decent property, then from time to time struggle to rent, so income drops to zero. That's why a small portfolio of more, lower value is better, and actually why I'd say REITs are better still. If you want say 25% of your cash back for something, you can't sell 25% of a condo either - all or nothing - again REITS mean you can sell any amount any time

Cheers

Fletch

Thanks Fletch, very informative!!

I was thinking less than 1 million baht for sure and thinking a few units that way if I would have a vacancy I could hopefully have the other units providing income. Also, I think I would want to focus on Thais instead of Westerners and perhaps even focus on places off the beaten path and not so much dependent on tourism.

i assume you know about Thailand so we will not get into that nightmare.

there is no off switch for the overbuilding.

believe me they will build just like they drive. until they crash at full speed.

I live in a sea of empty condos in Hua Hin.

dark monoliths with no lights on at night. maybe one or two units in a twenty story building.

Eleven thousand new units.

And more under construction.

and the collective denial of the owners. some I know who have been trying to sell for three years.

and empty and failing housing projects that dot the countryside every 100 meters. villa this and villa that.

i rent a three bedroom two bathroom house with a big yard, 3 minutes walk from the ocean, 5 kilometers from the Kings Summer Palace.

My rent is 10,000 baht or $306 USD.

good luck.

Thank you for your reply. I do know a little about Thailand and it's issues. Honestly I wasn't aware that it was such an issue with overbuilding and oversupply. I haven't spent any serious amount of time in Thailand since 2009/2010 and like I mentioned to another poster, I'm really just thinking out loud at this moment and exploring options. It's always good to get the general consensus on things like this and hopefully get good feedback from people who have actual experience.

Buy the condo's in Cebu, you will make a fortune

And that post is based on what...stopping the greed?

I assume the gentleman is being ironic; condos in the Philippines, and Cebu in particular, have notoriously poor build quality, are consistently overpriced both to buy and to rent vis-a-vis houses, and are hopelessly illiquid, even compared to Thailand.

If the OP is looking for investment income in Thailand without hassle and relatively low risk, I suggest he looks at SET corporate funds, some of which will pay a tax-free 6-7% dividend annually. The key with these however is to buy at the right moment to protect the capital investment.

You bring up a good point about investing in the SET and I've considered that. I was looking into that a few years back. How would one go about setting up an account to invest in the SET? I'm not very educated in that.

done this years ago was getting 10% on my investments which was good, then with all the over building here and everyone I spoke to was doing the same as me it became harder to rent the properties and had to reduce the rents ending up with lots of work lots of problems and 3 or 4% not so good, so I sold all the properties.

hope this helps you.

Sure helps, thanks for your time. Seems to be there is quite an oversupply in some markets.

Hi Teal

It should not be difficult for you to answer your own question !

• Visit 20 Condominiums for rent with the local agents.
• Discuss the rental costs.
• Visit 20 Condominiums for sale with the local agents.
• Discus the sale price.
• Do the Math's and then you will understand the "gross" return you are likely to gain on your investment.
• You should then be able to figure out your "Net return".
• Take very much care !

Very much appreciated! Problem is I'm not in Thailand now and I never seriously considered it before when I was in Thailand. But that would be the best logic.

Buy the condo's in Cebu, you will make a fortune

I have spent time in Cebu back in 2006. The PI has a lot of growth potential in my opinion. I never considered the PI before, I'll have to look into that.

^{Buy the smaller, lower priced units. Look for condos under 1 million. You can always rent them out and don't need farang customers. Your return should be around 10%.}

This was going to be my game plan. I recently stayed in Chiang Mai at a guest house, similar to a long stay hotel. They are getting around 8K baht/month for a tiny 1 bedroom, granted they are in a central location. It seems to me that I should be able to get that for a decent condo.

As an investor myself I would first assess what happens if you buy 3 condos and cant find tenants for a long time. Is this going to make or break you. If you are really well off then take a risk as it wont affect your cash flow. If its the only money you have then I would suggest only buy one and sit on it for a few years until you know the market better.

Back home I learnt that the best investment property is in a town where there is a chronic shortage of rental properties.

If I were you I would spend many months looking at as many properties for sale and also look at many rental condos to give you an idea. By the way you make money in property when you buy ..... if you get it cheap...

good luck

Thank you Sir for the good advice!

"if" you had bought about 7-8 years ago when the baht was weak it was "ok" now its really not so good at all, maybe you will get 3-4%, 8 years ago 10+% was what I got in BANGKOK which was the best place to do this.

My advice dont bother "now"

Save yourself a lot of hassle with poor quality construction ( especially water) leading to problems later and shove it in the highest interest account you can.

Units I bought way back 8 years ago cost me 1.1 million baht (5x 30m2 units) close to the BTS

I started renting them for 15k a month as at the time few new units available at my location, over the next 4-7 years rents fell as more stock came online, rent went down to 14-13.5-13-12-11-and last customer 10k a month.

I have since sold ALL the units and they sold for 1.45 million baht, no problems selling if in good condition and location, all were studios, no commission to any agents as..................Wife is an agent!!!

I did pretty well out of them.

I wouldnt buy in the current market

Thanks for all the great information!! How did you have the properties set-up legally? e.g.- wife's name, company, or just low-key off the books so to speak?

It all really depends on how much of a deal you can get on the condo(s).If you can buy a condo worth 2mill or 2.5 for 1.2 and rent it for 10k + a month I think ok. From what I see there is now a 15 to 20 year return on your money once you figure in what you would get if you just invested your cash at say 3% interest. You have to buy below market price to make out here. Maybe prices will come down in another year ???

As an example, I am currently paying 15K on a place that sells for 2.8m. Do the math but figure in about what your money would bring if you have it sitting in the bank collecting interest, say 3%. You must also figure in the maintenance fees and times that the unit is empty. It is currently a renters market in most of Thailand. Many reasons not to buy right now.....

Thanks for your information. I was thinking three units each fetching about 8,000 baht per month. I will do more research for sure. At this point I'm just thinking out loud, so to speak.

Hello all,

I've been thinking of a purchasing several condominiums in Chiang Mai for rentals and wanted to ask the community if anyone has any experience with this. I have roughly $90,000 USD and by doing some research I believe I could get roughly 3 units. My first question has to do with the fact that I'm not a Thai Citizen and owning property in Thailand has some special rules if you are a foreigner. I know a foreigner can own a condominium. Does anyone know if there is a limit to the number of units a foreigner can own? My second question is what kind of return on investment can you expect, e.g.- investing 1 million baht will return 10% annually in rents, 15% or perhaps even higher. I realize it all depends on what you pay for the property but I don't know if there is a general rule of thumb to consider or not. My logic is that if I could rent out 1 unit for around 10% of the cost of the unit annually, then that would give me a decent enough income to live in the SE Asia region on a full-time basis. Thank you for any information you can provide.

Koh Tao is home to a bunch of backwoods coconut farmers who think they can get away with murder. They need to put this thing to an end NOW!

Just because I have someone to keep my toilet clean,

doesn't mean he owns the s**thole. Think about!

Very insightful... OMG

Koh Tao is home to a bunch of backwoods coconut farmers who think they can get away with murder. They need to put this thing to an end NOW!

Wow, Whereustay is actually talking about something else besides getting laid. How refreshing.

As for the OP, I have no problem with anyone becoming successful in life. I applaud them. The problem is people tend to come on TV and lie about their success, as if to impress people and in essence, making their opinion about anything more credible. Or so they think. Unless it's somehow essential to the issue being discussed, why even bring up your personal wealth?

But why the assumption they are lying? Perhaps they are entirely truthful....you don't know unless you've met them. I'm not referring to personal wealth necessarily. If someone talks about a new Mercedes they bought and the topic was new cars, so therefore entirely relevant to the topic, why so many posters on TV would be negative towards him?

I only ask this because I'm on a sailboat forum for a bit now, and everyone seems to get along so well, are helpful and encouraging. Here it seems like its just so many, angry, bitter people when you talk about so many topics.

The assumption stems from jealousy. This forum is full of extremely envious and bitter men.

If you don't believe me, start another thread and tell everyone how your new girlfriend is upper class and Thai-Chinese. After that, sit back and watch as the creeps come crawling out of the woodwork.

If everyone on this forum were wealthy and married to Venezuelan supermodels, there would be no jealousy at all.

Truth is, of course, most forum members are married to middle-aged runts, ex whores or tattooed peasants. Another problem is that lots of men are stuck in ruts and coming to terms with the fact that they'll never reach the top of their profession.

What a sad existence. Maybe that's why so many farang kill themselves in Thailand. Maybe sometimes they are not wrong to kill themselves as really, what other options do they have? Like that British guy on here with no friends or money returning to England. Would anyone care if he just jumped off a roof? Nope.

Whereustay - you are an insensitive douche!

After many visits to Thailand, my observation is that many strange farang come here, so statistically, bad things are more likely to happen to them

I concur on this statement 100%

I was reading about this in the Bangkok post. I found it strange that they kept referring to the Taxi driver as Mr. and the American just by his last name. I guess the BKK post is biased in the way they report the news. Not showing respect for the deceased. That's a bit weird to me.

I think the key here is that you mentioned the words - simple life. Simple life to me equates to pretty much 30,000 per month. I'm not sure about Hua Hin, but I've spent time in Chiang Mai and I think it's totally doable. You have a decent amount saved up for a cushion. I would rent for now and think about buying property later on. Take it slow. Learn the language. Language is the key.