disagree

I remember reading in history books about the years before Hitler got elected. The browns and reds were driving through cities, hissing their flags and often confronting each other and beating each other up / killing each other.

What could be done in Thailand outside the boundaries of the 2 main parties? What could be learned from e.g. Singapore? What can we learn from Nelson Mandela?

This funnel towards escalation is not the right route, but which route is? What's to be desired at the end of the funnel?

Maybe the journalist got this from a German - ghost rider ( 'Geisterfahrer' in German ) means a driver that drives in the opposite direction of the traffic.

Maybe this is the way to announce that they want a cut of the profits, so the committee doesn't approve the investigation?

I remember when there was a rumour going around about spiked bottles of Sang Som. Some of the more shall we say 'rum connoisseurs' of Chalong were claiming that it must have had amphetamine in it because they would go crazy and stay up all night.

I explained to them that it had the same effect on me also, when drinking a one liter bottle of rum which is pure sugar and alcohol with 2 liters of coca - cola which is sugar and caffine, its no wonder you are going to be bouncing off the walls

Those anecdotes are interesting but pretty irrelevant?

They cast doubt on your opinion, so you just dismiss as irrelevant.

You're saying that one anecdote about some people not being able to sleep after some bottle of rum+coke is casting doubt on... countless reports of people being drugged, then robbed, raped and/or killed?

Is this for real?

I remember when there was a rumour going around about spiked bottles of Sang Som. Some of the more shall we say 'rum connoisseurs' of Chalong were claiming that it must have had amphetamine in it because they would go crazy and stay up all night.

I explained to them that it had the same effect on me also, when drinking a one liter bottle of rum which is pure sugar and alcohol with 2 liters of coca - cola which is sugar and caffine, its no wonder you are going to be bouncing off the walls

Those anecdotes are interesting but pretty irrelevant?

Manages to puke most of it out and somehow escapes. Trashes it the next day for spiked drink.

How could he be certain that his drink was spiked?

Ruled out food poisoning, used to heat, used to alcohol, single guy, reports in area of spiked drinks to make people careless with money/rob them, signs of alcohol poisoning/similar effects after 2nd beer?

This is a prevalent issue in Thailand ( since many years... ), with many warnings given, also by embassies etc. If you go to the full moon party the spiked drinks are even advertised as 'extra kick' - poisoned with non-digestible and dangerous fluids. Sometimes simply with meth-based drugs or hallucinogens, etc. If you google for the term 'spiked drinks thailand', you'll get enough of other stories and warnings.

It's a bit(?) ignorant to dismiss the situation here and the victims as if it's not happening if they haven't experienced it on themselves.

PS: Looked it up, it was in Rock City.

Apparently he wasn't the only one :

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g293920-d654418-r145821157-Rock_City-Phuket.html and http://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowUserReviews-g297930-d1866109-r123276330-Bangla_Road-Patong_Kathu_Phuket.html

The drinks are twice as strong in LOS than the west. I have seen many claim drinks being spiked. I dont believe it. its a mix of the hot weather and too many cocktails. Booze is pretty powerfull in big doses for the inexperienced

Friend who is strong enough to drink 1-2 bottles of Whiskey a day ( living in LOS ) gets suddenly dizzy after his 2nd beer in Phuket bar - he was alone there. One of those at the end of Bangla road, on the main road already. The big one, black wood, red sign I think. Hollywood or something.

Manages to puke most of it out and somehow escapes. Trashes it the next day for spiked drink.

It's not the alcohol. "I don't believe it" - big deal.

seems to me as mallorca and ibiza should be the forerunners in drunken balcony deaths, but somehow they aren't, hmm

mysterious this is

I've been living in the twin building, the state tower, so had of course many days out watching the empty building over some smokes. Too expensive ( and dangerous ) to raze, too bad of a state in to finish.

They explicitly don't allow anyone in, except the few occasional urban tourists who pay for it, or jump over the fences themselves. But it's maintained - the moment some graffiti kids drew something on it, it was removed a few days later. That's also around the time of the last votes, when they added the big posters from the ''don't vote'' movement with the animal heads and big X on it.

Since then they've been using it more and more for advertisements.

An old relic from the asian boom.

whale, and old

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/whale-found-dead-cambodian-fisherman

Oh all those Arabs and Africans that were told to 'get over it' and if 'they have nothing to hide, it's going to be alright'

Now we can see how it feels when it hits the white men being profiled as well. Borders... where nobody can do anything against authority.

And it's going to get worse...

Being a reborn again pagan I can easily accept all these different beliefs.

I of course have one stipulation. Is it some thing you really believe or are you just talking to be controversial. Like the atheists in the fox hole who didn't pray. I know one who did and I know one who didn't.

My personal beliefs are not part of the debate, I keep such to myself.

I was merely stating that it's not clear cut as those scholars have shown - no controversy intended, rather food for thought

My understanding was religion was a method of worship. But what do I know being a reborn again pagan

Although Wikipedia states 'Buddhism is a religion indigenous to the Indian subcontinent that encompasses a variety of traditions, beliefs and practices largely based on teachings attributed to Siddhartha Gautama, who is commonly known as the Buddha, meaning "the awakened one".', that should of course be taken with a grain of salt based on the last time it was edited. It went through a few changes.

It's clearly a topic of debate ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism#Is_Buddhism_a_religion.3F ) with lots of back and forth, but no clear outcome due to the many different practices. It's accepted as 'state religion' and protected under secular laws, which makes it a bit more than a philosophy in such cases.

Depends as well on the implied definition of religion...

The Dalai Lama states: "From one viewpoint, Buddhism is a religion, from another viewpoint Buddhism is a science of mind and not a religion. Buddhism can be a bridge between these two sides. Therefore, with this conviction I try to have closer ties with scientists, mainly in the fields of cosmology, psychology, neurobiology and physics. In these fields there are insights to share, and to a certain extent we can work together."^[249]

Ilkka Pyysiäinen states: "...Buddhism is the favorite example of scholars who have argued that we should find some other way of defining religion than the one based on the idea of belief in gods or superhuman beings..."

Walpola Rahula states: "The question has often been asked: Is Buddhism a religion or a philosophy? It does not matter what you call it. Buddhism remains what it is whatever label you may put on it. The label is immaterial. Even the label 'Buddhism' which we give to the teaching of the Buddha is of little importance.(...)"

^{Some interesting points to consider}

Funny....Loy Kratong has nothing to do with Buddhism..

"According to H.M. King Rama IV, writing in 1863, it was a Brahmanical festival that adapted by Thai Buddhists in Thailand to honor Buddha, Prince Siddhartha Gautama."

That is a bit more than 'nothing'; slightly comparable to Easter having had pagan roots and being adapted into the Christian belief system.

Where have I said that TAT is the government? I have replied to your dislike of coming to any country which is run by suits, which is any country with a government.

Have you by now understood that TAT is cancelling only TAT related festivities and not the Loy Kratong festival? Because it doesn't seem evident from your replies.

And yes, surely, if I tell you what you said, I should stick to what you actually said;

You stated : "and I have no idea, why the passing of a guy (...) should be mourned by everyone"

To which I replied : "Well, go down to the temple and get yourself educated (...) get an idea before you start complaining"

Hope that clears things up for you. And about the 'full' part, I can only return the nice words.

Cheers

I guess, even to you,it was obvious, that my "suites" remark was hinting at TAT, no?!

And no, it doesn't clear things up for me.

And it doesn't need to, because I know, what I wrote.

For example, the whole part that you (...) out !

Anyways: thanks for the discussion!

I wish you a nice 3 more days in Thailand. Keep observing; maybe you learn something!

Of course you may include the (...) part, as I have shortened it only for your convenience in understanding - as you seemed to have difficulty with it. Also why are you bothering me with having to imply things into your sentences, if you have such a hard time in implying the correlation of mine? But it doesn't matter as you've noted.

And thanks for your well wishes. Living here for a good while already will of course give me the opportunity to stay a bit longer, but thank you for your consideration and well wishes. Very kind of you. Cheers.

1) Buddhism is currently classified as a religion, but it's roots are philosophical. However that's a whole other discussion, it's unnecessary here.

2) That's awesome, who stated otherwise? I know many Thai who thoroughly and honestly believe he is.

3) Are you judging a whole religion by some bad apples around your house? Are Mormons then not Christians? Is Christianity not a religion because of what happens in New Orleans on a daily basis? It's of course funny that 'Thai' Buddhism is the oldest branch of Buddhism

What is the conversation coming down to? That in your opinion Thai Buddhism is not real Buddhism? That the behavior of bad apples justifies ignorance of a whole belief system? Please get a hold of yourself...

2) That's awesome, who stated otherwise? In all the years I have been coming to Thailand, and the years I have now been living here, the overwhelming majority of Thai I have met DO believe he is a "god".

3) Are you judging a whole religion by some bad apples around your house? SOME bad apples around my house? Apparently you have not seen the numerous articles lately about monks and their doings, all over LOS, not just near my house. Ever go to a major mall or retail outlet and count the number of "Buddhist Monks" walking around with iPads and iPhones, and very expensive cameras? You should try it sometime. Buddha said a monk should own 4 things. 3 robes and 1 begging bowl.

'Thai' Buddhism is the oldest branch of Buddhism - You might want to do a bit of research online on that one. On the other hand, does "oldest" guarantee REAL & TRUE aspects of what Buddha taught?

2) that's an interesting observation, i don't see how it benefits the discussion though...?

3) how many monks are there in thailand? how many articles about bad monks were there this year? please tell me which - out of those 2 numbers - you can actually count on your hands. you may use your toes as well if you must

'real & true buddhism' - please look into the country that actually practices such, and tell me if the aforementioned issues are not prevalent there as well

again, you seem to judge a belief system based on mostly bad apples, because you notice those rather than the ones who aren't such. Due to that, you're judging that 63 million people are just all... frauds? that what they believe doesn't have to be respected because some don't hold to some rules?

should we go into any christian country and see who is lenting before easter? who is abstinent before marriage? if they doesn't use santa claus in their strip clubs? how many articles about pedophile priests this year?

do you see then the chinese coming to our countries and complaining about how christian religion is bullshit based on those? how jesus was a jew? would anybody care?

what is your point really?

The discussion was/is about Buddhism. So try sticking to that and not try to sidetrack or distract by bringing other religions and beliefs in. And with only 126 posts, it would appear to me that you are, basically, a "newby" who hasn't spent enough time in Thailand with your eyes open to see the "reality" of Thai version of Buddhism, or an idealist whose "reality" is based on the concepts of the belief, and not the day-to-day reality. Which means that further discussion with you is a waste of my time. Maybe after actually living here for a few years you'll come to understand the things I've talked about.

Sticking to... a malformed argumentation? You might not understand comparisons to show the flaws of your argument?

It's indisputable that the main religion in Thailand is Theravada Buddhism. How much of it you see practiced or illpracticed in your personal surroundings or on TV doesn't really matter regarding that fact, and I see no correlation to what you're actually trying to achieve with your argumentation as you're constantly evading a point.

Also that you're going ad-hominem against me based on the amount of posts I'm making on this forum? Not my background on where I've been, how fluent I speak the language or what kind of people I've met and meet on a daily basis? ( which doesn't really matter, as I can come up with enough personal counter stories to yours, but that would evade the point ) - Or most importantly, the actual subject of what I'm speaking about? That's really good to know! I shall remember to tattoo the years spent here on my forehead.

Just wondering if you in that case believe that you're getting wiser with the amount of your virtual ramblings. Because I can't seem to see such a correlation.

Anyway, as always a great pleasure to converse with bright minds like yourself... ****Thai language removed**** and ****Foreign language removed****

I'm assuming they're referring to officially organised events. I'm also guessing that the regular Loy Krathong with ordinary people doing their thing riverside etc will go ahead on 17th.

Thank you for your post as that is correct "officially organised events" are postponed as per the Thai Gov. orders.

However, the floating of your own Karthong on the 17th November 2013 is NOT and Kan Not be postponed, only as was mentioned before, the Festival with live music shows etc. etc. etc. which go along with this festival has been cancelled/ postponed, which is correct in my view.

My wife and I will float our Karthong on the 17th November 2013 as normal same as each and every year.

Win from Kan

Top!

A) Budhism is NOT a religion, but a belief and way of life.

Buddha himself told his followers that he was NOT a god, and NOT to pray to him, but to meditate and search inside for their answers.

C) If you know ANYTHING about Buddhism, you would know that the "Thai" version is about as far from actual Buddhism as it can be. Superstition, corruption, power, sexual excess, personal gain, and about every other think you can think of permeates it. Went by one not far from my house last month and saw a huge celebration going on, with Chang Girls and Coyote dancers.

How can anyone show respect for something even the "followers" have no respect for?

1) Buddhism is currently classified as a religion, but it's roots are philosophical. However that's a whole other discussion, it's unnecessary here.

2) That's awesome, who stated otherwise? I know many Thai who thoroughly and honestly believe he is.

3) Are you judging a whole religion by some bad apples around your house? Are Mormons then not Christians? Is Christianity not a religion because of what happens in New Orleans on a daily basis? It's of course funny that 'Thai' Buddhism is the oldest branch of Buddhism

What is the conversation coming down to? That in your opinion Thai Buddhism is not real Buddhism? That the behavior of bad apples justifies ignorance of a whole belief system? Please get a hold of yourself...

2) That's awesome, who stated otherwise? In all the years I have been coming to Thailand, and the years I have now been living here, the overwhelming majority of Thai I have met DO believe he is a "god".

3) Are you judging a whole religion by some bad apples around your house? SOME bad apples around my house? Apparently you have not seen the numerous articles lately about monks and their doings, all over LOS, not just near my house. Ever go to a major mall or retail outlet and count the number of "Buddhist Monks" walking around with iPads and iPhones, and very expensive cameras? You should try it sometime. Buddha said a monk should own 4 things. 3 robes and 1 begging bowl.

'Thai' Buddhism is the oldest branch of Buddhism - You might want to do a bit of research online on that one. On the other hand, does "oldest" guarantee REAL & TRUE aspects of what Buddha taught?

2) that's an interesting observation, i don't see how it benefits the discussion though...?

3) how many monks are there in thailand? how many articles about bad monks were there this year? please tell me which - out of those 2 numbers - you can actually count on your hands. you may use your toes as well if you must

'real & true buddhism' - please look into the country that actually practices such, and tell me if the aforementioned issues are not prevalent there as well

again, you seem to judge a belief system based on mostly bad apples, because you notice those rather than the ones who aren't such. Due to that, you're judging that 63 million people are just all... frauds? that what they believe doesn't have to be respected because some don't hold to some rules?

should we go into any christian country and see who is lenting before easter? who is abstinent before marriage? if they doesn't use santa claus in their strip clubs? how many articles about pedophile priests this year?

do you see then the chinese coming to our countries and complaining about how christian religion is bullshit based on those? how jesus was a jew? would anybody care?

what is your point really?

You should really be either more like the "dude" in your avatar...or get off the dope!

We destroy what we came here for?

I didn't come here for some guys in suites, telling me (and others) what to do and what to think and when to do and think it!

I must have missed the memo, that told me, that TAT (this stands for the TOURISM AUTHORITY of THAILAND)is in charge of calling annual festivals off or postponing them, because some high- ranked guy in that office thinks, it is the right thing to do!

By the way: Loi Krathong is a beautiful, happy and peaceful festival (well...as peaceful as it gets in Thailand) and I have no idea, why the passing of a guy who officially believes that he is now either a) reborn or in a place called Nirvana-which should be quiet a happy place- should be mourned by everyone.

But sure you have a good explanation for that?!

"...because it is Thai and therefore good by definition"?

I feel happy for who I am, thanks.

You didn't come to a country that is run by a government? Maybe find some island that hasn't been claimed yet.

As you might have already noticed, the TAT has postponed festivities and events that are organized or condoned by the TAT. If you go down to the river to light up your candles, you can still do it.

You have no idea why one of the heads of the religious movement in Thailand might influence other festivities related to religion in Thailand? Well, go down to the temple and get yourself educated. Because right now you're just assuming and generally have 'no idea'. Why don't you get an idea before you start complaining in first place?

I can however see how that is much more difficult and how it's easier to be cynical and to spew negativity all-around.

Well you are pretty full of yourself...among other things, aren't you?

TAT is not "the government"- it is an agency, that takes care of a specific subject.

And if you tell me what I said, please stick to what I actually said!

Where have I said that TAT is the government? I have replied to your dislike of coming to any country which is run by suits, which is any country with a government.

Have you by now understood that TAT is cancelling only TAT related festivities and not the Loy Kratong festival? Because it doesn't seem evident from your replies.

And yes, surely, if I tell you what you said, I should stick to what you actually said;

You stated : "and I have no idea, why the passing of a guy (...) should be mourned by everyone"

To which I replied : "Well, go down to the temple and get yourself educated (...) get an idea before you start complaining"

Hope that clears things up for you. And about the 'full' part, I can only return the nice words.

Cheers

It's of course funny that 'Thai' Buddhism is the oldest branch of Buddhism

It is not called 'Thai Buddhism'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theravada

And the pure version of that is not widespread in Thailand, no matter how much some may claim it to be.

Animism is far more popular, and in fact much older.

Yup, hence in quotes... Was quoting the OP. And whichever version is wide-spread.. can be contested based on hearsay. What's really the point of your argument?

For all those 'respect Thais', 'go home if you don't like it', etc pompous twits, this is a Farang forum and - contrary to what petty dictators in PTP might like - are allowed to post their opinion here.

Just because one disagrees with TAT orders, one is not a Thai hater (what warped thinking). I strongly suspect that ordinary Thais will celebrate Loy Krathong as they normally do on the scheduled date - launch their krathongs into rivers, lakes & canals, have a chat & go home.

There are too many organisations here who are self-appointed guardians of the Buddist religion - the TAT, the military, & the 'culture' ministry. The Sangha Council should be the ones to decide on appropriate mourning (& celebrations) in this case.

Hey khunken, now you're generalizing people asking for respectful behaviour with people who tend to cut it down to "go home if you don't like it". I generally dislike personally that people cry and shout and are disrespectful in case of anything happening here. That doesn't mean that I disallow anybody to voice their opinion, but rather to overthink the approach

In the end it's Don Quixote anyway.

Let's remember that TAT just cancelled THEIR festivities - which they are fully in the right to do - not the festival. And I like that you mentioned the Sangha Council and would like to hear more on their stance in all of this.

Or just maybe, given the entire purpose of Loy Krathong anyway, this could have been made a very special event to honour the passing of the Supreme Patriarch.

Or maybe, just maybe, respect how the Thais run their own religion and stop complaining about how it's inconvenient for you. As it's the least of their worries.

A) Budhism is NOT a religion, but a belief and way of life.

Buddha himself told his followers that he was NOT a god, and NOT to pray to him, but to meditate and search inside for their answers.

C) If you know ANYTHING about Buddhism, you would know that the "Thai" version is about as far from actual Buddhism as it can be. Superstition, corruption, power, sexual excess, personal gain, and about every other think you can think of permeates it. Went by one not far from my house last month and saw a huge celebration going on, with Chang Girls and Coyote dancers.

How can anyone show respect for something even the "followers" have no respect for?

1) Buddhism is currently classified as a religion, but it's roots are philosophical. However that's a whole other discussion, it's unnecessary here.

2) That's awesome, who stated otherwise?

3) Are you judging a whole religion by some bad apples around your house? Are Mormons then not Christians? Is Christianity not a religion because of what happens in New Orleans on a daily basis? It's of course funny that 'Thai' Buddhism is the oldest branch of Buddhism

What is the conversation coming down to? That in your opinion Thai Buddhism is not real Buddhism? That the behavior of bad apples justifies ignorance of a whole belief system? Please get a hold of yourself...

If that's also the only thing you carried away from my post, well good luck to you :-)

Let's bash on each others heads, constantly, and ridicule and criticize everything.

Let's destroy what we came here for, by being cynical and destructive in everything we hear.

Let's just do that. Because back at home people don't do it enough already.

You should really be either more like the "dude" in your avatar...or get off the dope!

We destroy what we came here for?

I didn't come here for some guys in suites, telling me (and others) what to do and what to think and when to do and think it!

I must have missed the memo, that told me, that TAT (this stands for the TOURISM AUTHORITY of THAILAND)is in charge of calling annual festivals off or postponing them, because some high- ranked guy in that office thinks, it is the right thing to do!

By the way: Loi Krathong is a beautiful, happy and peaceful festival (well...as peaceful as it gets in Thailand) and I have no idea, why the passing of a guy who officially believes that he is now either a) reborn or in a place called Nirvana-which should be quiet a happy place- should be mourned by everyone.

But sure you have a good explanation for that?!

"...because it is Thai and therefore good by definition"?

I feel happy for who I am, thanks.

You didn't come to a country that is run by a government? Maybe find some island that hasn't been claimed yet.

As you might have already noticed, the TAT has postponed festivities and events that are organized or condoned by the TAT. If you go down to the river to light up your candles, you can still do it.

You have no idea why one of the heads of the religious movement in Thailand might influence other festivities related to religion in Thailand? Well, go down to the temple and get yourself educated. Because right now you're just assuming and generally have 'no idea'. Why don't you get an idea before you start complaining in first place?

I can however see how that is much more difficult and how it's easier to be cynical and to spew negativity all-around.

If the only thing in life left is constant criticism of others, woah, I don't want to see the day you discover the mirror

Said by someone who has been avoiding mirrors all his life.

Thank you for creating that special place for me in your heart. I love you, too.

You know what a great comment would be? "What a great sacrifice the Thai people are doing to honor this man. This must have been a great person."

But the majority of comments are about holiday schedules and know-it-all political trivialities.

You know what else would be great? if you would just make your comment without telling everyone else what to post.

Hypocrite much?

Stings?