kal147

I agree .... very interesting indeed. I don't doubt Lopburi at all ... it's immigration who may have it all wrong. I suspect in the coming years the rules will be clarified or changed entirely anyhow. Right now Thailand is in a state of transition ... many changes are sure to come.

But it is not my interpretation - it is the way immigration acts. You do not have the 400k baht deposit option anymore unless you were in the system earlier. If you check the forum you will find many threads and reports to this effect.

I know that Thailand acts weird many times, but it is very possible that immigration has it wrong. Or perhaps, some people in immigration have it wrong. The Order as written totally supports my interpretation ... or else immigration is essentially saying the language of the order providing for 400,000 in bank in lieu of income is meaningless ... and that those who drafted the Order went to the trouble of drafting a meaningless provision.

It wouldn't be the first time a law was written poorly, I believe this needs to be clarified by Thai authorities.

Just curious if you have read the original order in the Thai language or are you going by what could very possibly be an incorrect English translation?

Very good point! I was most certainly reading the English translation which could very well be incorrect.

However, philosophically anyways, having the money in the bank is tantamount to have the monthly annuity. Actually, it's even better as the funds are 100% guaranteed as opposed to be an amount supposedly to be remitted and received during the year.

I understand Thailand can work in strange ways, I lived there for 2 years ... coming back in a few days. Why? Go figure! But, I think we have a good case here ... Lopburi's interpretation while it may be correct ... is absurd.

But it is not my interpretation - it is the way immigration acts. You do not have the 400k baht deposit option anymore unless you were in the system earlier. If you check the forum you will find many threads and reports to this effect.

I know that Thailand acts weird many times, but it is very possible that immigration has it wrong. Or perhaps, some people in immigration have it wrong. The Order as written totally supports my interpretation ... or else immigration is essentially saying the language of the order providing for 400,000 in bank in lieu of income is meaningless ... and that those who drafted the Order went to the trouble of drafting a meaningless provision.

It wouldn't be the first time a law was written poorly, I believe this needs to be clarified by Thai authorities.

except for aliens who

entered the Kingdom before

this Order came into force and

granted a permit to stay in the

Kingdom.

Above is the restriction - no new applications are allowed using the 400k bank deposit.

Lopburi, in the Police Order, the above clause is preceeded by a comma. This clause you quoted qualifies the the first past of the sentence (the 40,000 BHT requirement). Therefore, it essentially states that applicants must meet the 40,000 BHT test unless they entered the Kingdom prior to the effective date of the Order.

By itself, this would support your interpretation.

However, the very next sentence of the Order clearly states that if an alien does not meet the income requirement that 400,000BHT in the bank will suffice.

Lopburi, to adopt your interpretation would render the entire second sentence (400,000BHT in bank) totally meaningless.

except for aliens who

entered the Kingdom before

this Order came into force and

granted a permit to stay in the

Kingdom.

Above is the restriction - no new applications are allowed using the 400k bank deposit.

Lopburi, in the Police Order, the above clause is preceeded by a comma. This clause you quoted qualifies the the first part of the sentence (the 40,000 BHT requirement). Therefore, it essentially states that applicants must meet the 40,000 BHT test unless they entered the Kingdom prior to the effective date of the Order.

By itself, this would support your interpretation.

However, the very next sentence of the Order clearly states that if an alien does not meet the income requirement that 400,000BHT in the bank will suffice.

Lopburi wrote:

"1. Marriage is now family income only."

I examined the Police Order No. 606/2549 cited earlier in this thread, and in section 7.17(6) regarding aliens married to a Thai woman, it does provide that in lieu of the 40,000 THB/month requirement, a deposit of 400,000 THB in a Thai bank would satisfy the 'basis of consideration' for the Visa. So as written, marriage is not family income only.

Is my reading incorrect?

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606EN.pdf

That quote applies to new applicants as the poster did not currently have such an extension of stay and the 400k is not available for anyone but those already in the system last year. New applicants are only allowed to apply with the 40k family income method.

The Police Order No. 606/2549 Sec. 7.17(6) does not distinguish between new or old applicants(those already in the system). Where does Thai law distinguish between the two. The code section I cited, if controlling, supports my interpretation. Is there another law or code section that supercedes or clarifies the requirements per your interpretation?

Lopburi wrote:

"1. Marriage is now family income only."

I examined the Police Order No. 606/2549 cited earlier in this thread, and in section 7.17(6) regarding aliens married to a Thai woman, it does provide that in lieu of the 40,000 THB/month requirement, a deposit of 400,000 THB in a Thai bank would satisfy the 'basis of consideration' for the Visa. So as written, marriage is not family income only.

Is my reading incorrect?

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606EN.pdf

Can anyone explain how the new visa rules will impact me:

I am currently living/renting in Chiang Rai and I planned to stay in Thailand until approx. May, 7 2007.

I am currently in Thailand on a non-immigrant, multiple entry, "B" Visa. The visa was issued in the United States on September 20, 2005. A few days ago on Sept. 15, I left Thailand on an afternoon Visa run to Burma (Mai Sai/Tachilek). Upon re-entry to Thailand my passport was stamped another 90 days to December 13, 2006.

I believe this is my last 90 day stamp on my non-immigrant, multiple entry "B" Visa.

My question is: After December 13, how do the new Visa regulations affect me. Will I be able to leave Thailand on Dec. 13 at the Thai/Burmese border and immediately re-enter and get a new 30 day stamp? Will I be denied re-entry? Can I get three in succession? More???

All help appreciated!

Yes, I'm a teacher, if that's what you mean :-)  I sometimes teach business law here as well as the basic mainstay, English, not often enough unfortunately.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Paully, what opportunities are available in Thailand for one to teach Business Law?

This is about it, would you take your family to a Brothel???

Actually, this is a valid point. I can respond simply by stating that I have no family and that I note the naughty nite life aspect of Pattaya ... it does not bother me. In fact, I welcome the experience. That said, I do seek balance in where I live. However, I look at Pattaya in a similar vein as I would Las Vegas. In Vegas, one can immerse themselves totally in a culture of gambling or one can live there quite happily and never touch a casino ... many do just that. Again, it's about balance.

I do seek a location that is, in fact, balanced. During my stay I would like to live in Thailand somewhere where I can come home to quiet and peace ... but go out for excitement if and when I want to as well. But, I would rather meet a real girlfriend than endlessly troll bars.

My concerns with Pattaya lie with the congeniality of the city in general. You guys have to admit the "stories" here in this forum are much more sordid, and intimidating, that in the Phuket forum -- another place I am considering as well. Pattaya being more cosmopolitan and less expensive that Phuket, and less overwhelming and cheaper than BKK, makes it a serious inquiry for me.

In Pattaya, I understand that pay for teachers is lower than in BKK but yet higher than in Phuket and with more types of opportunity available. So it seems to me that Pattaya would be a possible compromise between the three ... all other things being equal. Phuket, from what I've learned, seems to be the concensus choice as a place to be. However, the lower pay coupled with higher costs may make Phuket unsuitable for me for anything longer that a short time. (no pun intended )

I understand that I can only gather so much info from inquiries and that real understanding comes from going there. However, I would like my decision to be an educated one. Your help is surely appreciated.

I understand the necessity of a "B" visa and work permits. I've already researched those issues. What I would like to know is what types of teaching positions and realistic pay I could expect being inexperienced but otherwise mature (44) and highly educated. Also, what is living in Pattaya really like? Las Vegas is much more than gambling, I trust Pattaya is more than brothels.

Humphrey Bear Wrote:

Are you already fixed up with a teaching post, or coming out on spec?

Do not expect to get a well-paid job if you walk in off the street. The good jobs (if there are any in teaching) are recruited from overseas. You need to know you have accommodation, so on, within your package, otherwise you'll be sleeping in Soi Day-Night.

If you are coming out here thinking you will be the greatest gift to teaching this century - forget it. You will be swallowed up by the darker side of Party City. But if you genuinely want to work out here, have a job fixed up and a place to stay, then you can live a great life for very little outlay.

I don't have anything set up nor do I know how to go about doing so. I'm planning on acquiring my certificate through the 'Talk and Teach' program, and I'm under the impression that they can arrange suitable accomodations so that when I arrive I'll have a place to stay close to their school. Also, I'm under the impression that once I acquire my certificate through them I will have no problem securing a good teaching position. While I have no experience teaching per se, I do possess good credentials otherwise and generally. Is the job market in Pattaya materially different from BKK or other major Thai cities?

Is it realistic to believe that I'd be able to secure a 'good' teaching position before I acquire my certification and without having been in Thailand before?

As an educated man (legal field), are other job opportunities open to me as well?

Many questions ... diverse answers. That's Ok ... I appreciate all the assistance given me.

Come here and decide for yourself 

If your man or woman enough.

Why, is it like Russian roulette or something?

Okay, seriously. I'm planning on coming to Thailand later this year to teach English -- so my stay may be quite lengthy. I'm a single male, 44, from Chicago, USA.

Now, I've been researching Thailand for a while and I'm trying to decide which place would be best for me ... at least initially. I know a little about BKK, a little about Phuket ... but, Pattaya -- not so much. I'd like to move to a congenial location.

So, what's the deal with Pattaya. Congenial? Dangerous? I know everything is relative ... but what are the advantages/disadvantages in Pattaya?

Wow! I've read thru a lot of the posts in this forum, and I've read stories of the dangers of getting killed by bus drivers, stabbed at the beach, people (falling) off balconies, people getting ripped-off en masse, falling to their deaths into holes ete., etc.

Is Pattaya really this bad a place to live?

Is it really this dangerous?

This can't be representative of all Thailand, is there any redeeming qualities to Pattaya?

Hi everyone, I'm rather new around here ... so a brief intro. I'm a single man, 44, live in Chicago, USA, and I am planning on trying a new TELF career in Thailand.

I'm learning towards Phuket over BKK because I hear it's really beautiful, less crowded, and easier to get around. However, I haven't heard your guys point of view yet. So please tell me if you have familiarity with both places, which do you prefer, and what do you see are the pluses and minuses for BKK or Phuket in regards to:

1) Teaching or other job opportunities

2) Pay for those jobs

3) Cost of living comparison (housing etc)

4) Quality of life

5) Dating scene

6) Getting around

8) Noisy -quiet

9) Other factors I should be aware of

Any and all responses will be much appreciated, if you need to know more about me ... just ask.

The process of reducing the things you have in America, ready for your move, will bring a deepening sense of loss and grief over time. It is an action that psychologically you should prepare yourself for. Leaving the safety of your past life can be a BIG deal. That's why it's good to do it over a peroid of several months."

I believe I understand what the poster is saying. I too am planning on moving to Thailand (Phuket). I'm planning on staying a couple of years, but I may fall in love with the place ... and not want to leave.

For me it's not the material possessions that mean anything, I can leave them all behind and say goodbye ... not look back and without regret. However, I still must contemplate where I shall be in 20 years. I'm 44, single, have some resources ... not a lot, but not bad either. The longer I stay in Thailand, the further removed I shall become from the safety ( and necessity) of retirement planning. If I stay for 20 years what will I have saved for my senior years? If I stay for more than 2 years I become increasingly unmarketable back in the USA.

These are very real concerns for a middle aged man to contemplate. There are no easy answers. Now every decision I make comes with a very real cost attached. Although I know I must go ... there is substantial risk. That is unsettling.

Thank you all for your replies. It seems the concensus is that there are many quiet places to rent a house/apartment on Phuket, but one has to do his/her due diligence.

From my research, it seems that excellent housing can indeed be rented on Phuket for a small fraction of what the same would fetch in the States.

I found this listing, is it for real?

http://www.deliver-it.nl/houses/index.html

It appears that $500US/month can rent quite the house on Phuket. Far superior to the $100US/month studios that seem much more common -- at least in BKK.

I plan on staying on Phuket for 2 years, and I could easily supplement any income I earn there with $500US/month out of my own pocket. I don't need a lap of luxury, however, I would like my residence to be comfortable and spacious based on American standards.

Hello everyone,

I'm new here in this forum and there is much for me to learn about Phuket. I've done some research already, and from what I've learned Phuket sounds very appealing. I am considering moving there from the States to teach english for a couple of years. I understand that pay is low and that I may need to supplement my income thru savings in order to live in nice apartment or house .

I was under the impression that Phuket was much more laid back, less crowded, and a more congenial place to live than Bangkok. However, I came across this article that seems to say that Phuket has a problem with overcrowding and noise pollution.

Is it true? Is Phuket crowded and loud with a lot of noise pollution?

Here's the article, any comments/clarifications would be appreciated.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:FzT1f...&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Din of discontent grows in Phuket

Published on Mar 26, 2004

When Democrat candidate Anchalee Vanich-Thepabutr swept the March 14 election for the chairmanship of the Phuket Provincial Administrative Organisation, capturing 54 per cent of the votes compared to 4 per cent for the Thai Rak Thai candidate, many observers attributed the landslide to widespread dissatisfaction with the quality of life in Phuket.

Though still touted as a "paradise" by tour companies and, more ambiguously, as a "lifestyle" location by some property developers, more and more local residents, both Thai and long-term expatriate, have begun to see the island quite differently.

"Yes, it's a great lifestyle if your style includes a love of noise," said an English retiree who moved four months ago into an upscale villa development near what used to be a prime west coast beach.

"We now count 13 karaoke bars within a 3km radius of our Bt48-million home. They start at around 6pm and go until two or three in the morning. Our grandchildren came to visit us with my daughter, but they had to leave a week early because they couldn't sleep. It's not only the noise - what's really killing us is the reverberations from the speakers. They go right through our walls," he told The Nation on condition of anonymity.

A Canadian computer consultant expressed similar concerns about his new home in a top-tier residential estate.

"This place was sold to me as a luxury development", he said. "And now, a year later, we find ourselves trapped in cacophony. Two months ago the local government [Tambon Administrative Organisation] began installing loudspeakers on all the telephone poles. Now, starting at around 5pm most days, we can listen to everything from village news and campaign speeches to Chinese music to fruit and fish commercials. There's nothing optional about it - no way to escape it," he said.

Most residents, when asked to comment on quality-of-life issues in Phuket, are reluctant to give their names, citing fear of retribution from the police, whom they see as being in collusion with karaoke owners and other wholesalers of noise pollution.

A 27-year-old Thai waitress, who would give her name only as "Pom", told The Nation that business at the Chalong Bay restaurant where she works is declining. "At least half of our customers complain about the [noise from the] 'sing-a-song' bar next door, but there's nothing my boss can do about it."

When asked why the boss doesn't call the police, the waitress smiled, looked around, pointed to the karaoke and whispered, "Because they're usually in there."

Warunee Pakpien, 35, a sales person with a leading magazine publisher, suffered from noise of a different kind. When she bought her new townhouse, it never occurred to her that a business could lawfully open shop in the house next to her. When a tour company moved in with four tour guides, four drivers, a mechanic and four large buses, she became alarmed.

"They worked on the buses all night, revving the engines, drinking and laughing. The police told me they could do nothing about it. In the end, the company went bankrupt, but that was just luck for me.

"What I learned is that buying a home almost anywhere in Phuket is a gamble. There is no residential zoning, and you cannot choose your neighbours," she warned.

According to Alasdair Forbes, managing editor of the local English-language newspaper the Phuket Gazette, the passage of new zoning laws will not in itself bring the peace that residents want. The problem lies in the enforcement.

"What few zoning laws we do have don't work because they're undermined by the enforcers. Beaches, for example, are public property in Thailand, and it's basically against the law to build on them. So how do you explain the scores of restaurants, tour offices and air-conditioned tailor shops on the sands of Bangtao and Kamala?

"And the law requires karaokes to have glass doors to contain the noise, but this requirement is rarely met," Forbes noted.

But it's not only noise and corruption that distresses local residents. In February of 2003, the provincial government announced that it wanted to "consult with the Phuket people" regarding the location for the construction of an International Convention and Exhibition Centre (ICEC).

After extensive debate, the voters were asked to select one of four proposed sites.

The village of Tha Chat Chai at the north end of the island won, with 90 per cent of the votes. In last place was Saphan Hin, with only 8 per cent. With the critically important issue settled, Phuketians were happy.

A few months later, the Thaksin Cabinet in Bangkok announced that it had considered the matter and decided that the ICEC would be sited in Saphan Hin.

"So when we hear that the government wants to 'consult with the Thai people' about legalising gambling and opening casinos, we know that Phuket is at risk," said a prominent local property developer.

"I believe it's safe to say that the vast majority of Phuket residents do not want a casino here. But most of us think the decision has already been made - and that Phuket is going to have one.

"In my view, a casino would further erode the quality of life here, and is inconsistent with the government's stated objective of improving social order," he added.

Phummisak Hongsyok, former mayor of Phuket town and currently chairman of the Phuket Real Estate Agents' Club, notes that despite all the government talk and changes in direction on entertainment zoning, little to nothing has been accomplished on the ground.

He also wonders why foreigners should not be allowed to own land in Thailand when they can do so almost anywhere else in the world.

"What's the worry? They can't take the land with them when they leave Thailand. It's the foreigners who should do the worrying, given all the changes in the rules by our government. It's difficult for them to know where they stand, and that is not good if we want foreign investment," he said.

The Nation

PHUKET

--------------------

Seminar on island's woes

Overcrowding, property development, planning, zoning and quality-of-life issues in Phuket will be discussed at a seminar tomorrow at the Le Meridien Phuket Beach Resort.

Joining the panel are Sommai Prijasilpa, head of the Foreign Relations Office; Tranai Tan-ngamtrong, an architect and city planning consultant; and Samroeng Chaisorn, former vice president of the Phuket Provincial Administrative Organisation.

Leading the seminar will be four prominent local and foreign businessmen, with The Nation editor Pana Janviroj moderating the discussions.

The proceedings will be conducted from 2.30-5.30pm in English and admission is free to readers of The Nation and the Phuket Gazette.

THE NATION