isawasnake

We had an increase in fees. It went up for a vote, from all I could tell nobody voted for it, as we were talking to people next to us and others and they were voting no. In the end it somehow passed amazingly, and our fees are higher now.

This stuff all comes down to how much it bugs you. Do you really want to go to a lawyer, spend days and days on end worrying about this and figuring it out, and paying a lawyer.

If you want to file a complaint, you have to file it with the lands department within 30 days. You don't need a lawyer it is fairly simple. To be fair to the lands department they are seemingly a lot stricter on complying with the law when accepting these types of issues than they have in the passed.

And they would actually come in and "investigate". I am a hopeless pessimist when it comes to Thailand and justice, but thanks for the suggestion, I will def keep it in mind. I know right where our land office is too.

What a surprise a reasonable and qualified person fleeing Thailand.

We had an increase in fees. It went up for a vote, from all I could tell nobody voted for it, as we were talking to people next to us and others and they were voting no. In the end it somehow passed amazingly, and our fees are higher now.

This stuff all comes down to how much it bugs you. Do you really want to go to a lawyer, spend days and days on end worrying about this and figuring it out, and paying a lawyer.

I took care of this, there were some ups and downs.

I called the electric company and was told unequivocally that the bill can't be paid online in any way. She also told me I will get charged 40 baht a month even if I did not use the power, a sort of fee that is associated with being able to have power at any time. I think 40 baht for nothing is fair enough, but it is paying this 40 baht that becomes the big problem.

I dug through this thread some more. Somebody mentioned you can have your bank pay the bill for you automatically. Thanks for that. I signed up for this service, so hopefully that takes care of the electric bill.

Talking to the juristic person was sublime because the first thing I found out is that the evil witch that was running the building before is now gone, and it is a new lady. This was the most wonderful news. The other lady was the most useless lump I have ever come across in my entire life. The new one is going to email me when i have a bill for cam or water, and it will be paid via bank transfer.

Thanks for the replies.

I have heard on numerous occasions that Thais/chinese buy condos and just let them sit there without paying fees. This may be exaggerated I have no idea. But if it is as serious as selling your condo off, even without the chanote i take it, I will get more serious about it, maybe. ha. I was just planning on paying the 10% and 20% when back. The way I see it, and I could be wrong about this, but they want the money, but they dont have a lot of ways of paying the money from overseas.

I will figure it all out and report back.

This is a joke post for sure.....................

Did you gain the experience to determine this within your previous 7 posts?

you could set up automatic billing with water and electric. we did it. you need to get the special forms from the respectiv companies. we did it in korat.

Thanks for the replies.

One last time, sorry to repeat, anybody know what happens if you just don't pay your water/electric? Anybody had experience with this. I guess the outcome may differ in each case, so hard to get a specific answer. If they turn it off that would not be the end of the world, I could just get a hotel.

I often do this for condos around the country even though I live in Thailand. All you need to do is leave a large enough sum with the juristic person to cover all the bills for the time you are away plus some more in case prices increase. Get an estimate from them and a receipt. You will probably find they cannot or will not accept bank or internet transfers. If the utility companies accept bank transfers then you can pay them directly rather than via the juristic person. Just ask the juristic person - it's their job.

Thanks. Yeah, this is the impression I have gotten here with internet transfers.

I really don't like or trust the juristic person, but with a receipt i suppose it will be ok.

The other thing is I really have no idea how long I will be gone. I mean it could literally be 1 year or 8 to 10 years.

You can overpay with PEA and TOT - ie give them a bit extra and that will be used up on your future bills.

Suspect you can do the same with other companies.

I may try this. The thing I don't like is I would be giving this extra money to the management, and I don't trust them at all. But it would be a small enough amount, so i'll probably do this.

My main question for starting the thread, what will happen if I have say 200 baht water bill due for a few years? One person said there may be a reconnection fee. Any more info on just how this is handled?

I am glad you guys find it so easy to pay online though. On my bills I see absolutely no option to do this, but I guess it is possible. I just have no idea where to start.

Some people have said I could lose my condo, I suppose that is for the CAM fees. I don't believe that, but I suppose anything is possible.

I don't want to rent my condo btw.

If the condo is empty you should have no new electricity or water bills, unless your building has some special arrangement for a standing charge.

Your common fees will accumulate, of course, and in my building (where fees are low) most people in your circumstances just deposit enough to cover these for a few years. Of course this does rather depend on how much your fees are. Personally, even though I live in my condo permanently, I have enough on deposit with the building to cover a year's worth of fees and water/cable bills, and my electricity is paid by direct debit to the PEA. That way I know that if I had to leave for whatever reason (travel, illness) I would not have to worry about anything.

It should not be hard to use internet banking to pay your common fees if you prefer not to deposit cash in advance.

As for your current bills of a few hundred Baht, why not just pay them?

Thanks.

Yeah I want to pay my current bills, but will end up using a little after I leave. I would have to walk in and cancel at all these offices on the way to the airport for it to be left at 0, see what I mean? And even then. I don't have experience with paying this stuff online. If I knew it was an option I would have done it long ago. The electric and water are paid here at the condo, not sure how to get around that. Anyway I will look into it, I am certainly not going to leave any extra money with them, but I do see how that could work for some. Thanks.

I certainly do not reject science. I reject the position being presented despite the failure of the evidence. When the experiment fails science does not call the results acceptable. Science says try again. Ideology says the science is settled.

You do reject science.

You are not a scientist.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I love how there are Richard Feynman quotes in here as if to support the deniers. That is so amusing. Why don't you look up some of his living contemporaries that can actually voice their opinion? Try Stephen Hawking. Wait, you understand scientific theory better than Mr. Hawking, don't you. I'm sorry, but you people are a joke. If you don't understand that even 1000 years is the equivalent to the blink of an eye on a global/geological time scale, there is no helping you, because people like Mr. Hawking make a habit out of supporting poor scientific method, correct? And they don't understand the time frames we are dealing with as well as you, right? You are truly the idiots of the world IF you really do believe that.

This is the bottom line that trumps every argument you can come up with. We have seen warming at a RATE almost 10 times higher than we have ever seen in the ice core history. 10 times faster than the earth has ever warmed since we started spewing CO2 into the atmosphere. People like you see that as some sort of coincidence, while the scientists who you reject don't. They know a lot more than you. A 20 year period is like a dot on a graph to them, it does not settle anything. You really can't argue your way around the above facts. You can and do spout out a lot of regurgitated erroneous information that has been spread into the conscience of the public via lobbyists and the absurd amounts of money they throw out there. Your opinion has essentially been bought.

And, if you don't understand all that, maybe you could take a look at say the history of the dow jones industrial average to understand what scientists are saying, because you clearly don't understand. The temperatures of the earth will warm in the long term. They may level off, they may even go down, but much like the dow jones since itsinception, they are going to be on an unnaturally rapid upward swing in over the long haul, and they have in fact already shown this pattern. So reject that all you want, but it just proves that you have an agenda with every word out of your mouth.

People like you rely on science all the time. You want to see when the next meteor shower will be, and you obviously don't have the tools and mathematical abilities that these scientists do, so you go look at one of their tables to tell you when it will show up in the night's sky. Yet, when the same scientists do the same calculations and data gathering with equipment you will never have or understand, then you reject that based on your "ideology". You just don't seem to get anything to be honest. People that believe in science don't have an "ideology", they just believe in the science because of its track record. You are the one with the ideology that has rejected science.

So go ahead, have a look at those warming RATES since the industrial revolution, and keep spewing the same nonsensical, paid for "arguments" that you have bought into based on your disgustingly ignorant ideology. I will have no more of listening to it however.

About the overtime fee, I suspect that it is similar to what is done at the first Friendship bridge in Vientiane. You are charged an US$ 1 overtime fee (maybe it's 40 baht too there for people who cannot pay this fee in US dollars) if you are entering Laos before 8 am or after 4 pm, or anytime on saturdays, sundays, and during public holidays.

I recently did a 'visa run' at Savannakhet and didn't pay any overtime fee. I paid my visa on arrival for Laos in US dollars (that was US$ 30 in my case as I am a French national) and didn't have to argue nor bargain with anyone.

The only 'overtime fee' that I had to pay was an additional 5 baht for my return 'international bus' ticket (55 baht instead of 50) when I came back from Laos at about 4:30 pm, but it's the normal practice (it's clearly stated at the 'international bus' cashier desk on the Laos side that the standard fare is 13000 kip, but 14000 kip during overtime periods).

I would just add another point for those who are going to take a 'samlor' (or 'tuk-tuk' if you prefer) in Savannakhet from the bus station to the Royal Thai Consulate (at its new location), it's a very short fare and you should not pay more than 20 baht (or 5000 kip) per person (you might have to share the vehicle with one or two other passengers though). At the bus station, most 'samlor' drivers will try to get much more than this (starting from 100 baht for this fare!), but it's not too difficult to get a much more reasonable price.

By the way, the new location of the Royal Thai Consulate is at about 15 or 20 mn by walk from the bus station (it's on the main road on the left when you are exiting the bus station).

I have crossed so many times now it is kinda a blur, but I do remember crossing into Vientianne at night I paid the fee and was given a receipt. I really have no problem with this at all. People are working overtime or after hours, it seems perhaps even more than reasonable. Hell, I'd pay more.

But, when they charge the same fee in the middle of the day, and dont give you a receipt, I have a problem with that. It is more of a legitimacy issue for them. Why scam people and get a single dollar? It makes them look bad and they dont get much. I just think we should all attempt to not pay these fees when they are not legit, which is when no receipt is given.

Last time I was crossing back into Mukdahan was where I was charged the 40 baht with no receipt by the way. Next time I do this I will not pay it.

Can you guys offer up some advice on the potential problems of leaving a condo here for years? I don't have anybody to help me out that is based in Thailand, and to be honest I don't really trust our management company with anything.

I am mainly concerned about the bills coming in. Right now I am thinking I will just leave the balance that I happen to have when I leave, meaning I think I will owe about 200 baht on the water, 300 electric ....... can I just leave them as is and clear it all up when I return?

There is also the issue of the yearly CAM fees for the common areas. I really have no way to pay it from overseas, so I am probably just going to pay they interest when I return.

Any advice on how to handle this from people that have done it before appreciated.

It is very much a sight to behold to see people willingly come forth and say they reject science. It is maybe even more of a sight to see that they seem to think they have the upper hand in an argument in doing so.

To compare the effectiveness of science in human history to any sort of random events or behaviors is ludicrous. Any person suggesting as much should of course lose all credibility.

To take it even a step further, the argument posed above would necessarily posit that this individual would believe in the science when/if the climate does in fact continue warming. So be it. He will be a little slow, but if taken at his own word he will join the party in time no doubt.

Some people need to actually see or experience things to believe them. Others have a bit more faith in the experts and the science. The biggest problem I have with many of the deniers' arguments is that they are disingenuous. Even in the case that the points they are using to argue are reversed, they maintain their positions.

Was the question "why was this such a crime of passion/hate" answered with these culprits? Did they supposedly argue or have some contact with the victim?

With regard to the 1500B Laos visa fee. I'm sure I was the first westerner over the bridge on a Saturday morning, I tried to pay with 40 $US expecting to get some kip or maybe a $5 bill as change ..

The guy ( no uniform ) said 1500B, I spoke to him in Thai, to explain that 35 $US wasn't 1500B, more like 1100B.

For a moment he was firm, then after I gave it "couldn't you just do me a favour" ( best line i ever learnt ) he relented and dropped it to 1300B, I pushed hard for 1100B with a joke, but he wasn't having any of it. In the end I had him smiling and he wouldn't process the application till he saw the colour of the money.

So, I think the fee is negotiable if your Thai is good enough.

TBH: Im sure the visa money is just tea money, I made a right mess of the form, I made lots of crossings out and alterations for which I apologised for, he basically said "give me the money and disappear will ya'". Im sure the form just ended up in the bin.

PS: When is it not "overtime" for a Laos immigration officer ? I paid 40B on the way in, but the Thai gamblers had to pay to get their paper entry permits stamped + 100B overtime fee. Even the queue of Thais had to laugh at that one at the remark I made out loud to that one.

Yeah, all the legit stuff you will actually get a receipt for, or the amount will be stamped in your passport. If there is no receipt, and no stamp of the amount in your passport (in the case of a visa), it's a scam. Those overtime fees are actually legit, but only at nighttime I believe, where you will actually get a receipt for paying it. The daytime fee they charge is a crock.

I stopped paying the "+100 baht" during my poipet border runs, as they stamp "20 dollars" into your passport when you buy the cambodian visa. If they want 20 dollars plus 100, they need to stamp in somewhere. My new rule

It helps if you have the ability to argue .. When I was haggling over the visa free (no receipt given) it was light hearted on both sides.

I'm not going to haggle over 20-40b in a language I can't give them a run for their money in.

I used to think like you, and I agree with what you are saying ironically. It is like it's not worth it.

I am sick of it though. And I will tell you, if you put up any sort of stink during these scam payments, they don't make you pay. I personally have concluded they are under orders to let people that question it slide, because they have a good thing going (can't beat free money), and any report or incident could potentially pressure them into stopping the entire scam.

It's not hard to communicate either. The entire world understands "no". When they are doing something wrong, they get it immediately. I don't hold it against those who pay, because I used to be one, but I think we do ourselves a disservice every time we pay these bogus fees.

Just another notch in the Thai belt. They have a perfect record. In 2 months nobody will be talking about this, just in time for high season. I'm going to start calling this the teflon country.

I have heard all the analogies, and I don't think there is anything to them. Of course there is crime in other parts of the world, but there is also justice. When you have no justice, you have nothing.

And, where in the hell are all the supposedly passionate and award winning journalists?

With regard to the 1500B Laos visa fee. I'm sure I was the first westerner over the bridge on a Saturday morning, I tried to pay with 40 $US expecting to get some kip or maybe a $5 bill as change ..

The guy ( no uniform ) said 1500B, I spoke to him in Thai, to explain that 35 $US wasn't 1500B, more like 1100B.

For a moment he was firm, then after I gave it "couldn't you just do me a favour" ( best line i ever learnt ) he relented and dropped it to 1300B, I pushed hard for 1100B with a joke, but he wasn't having any of it. In the end I had him smiling and he wouldn't process the application till he saw the colour of the money.

So, I think the fee is negotiable if your Thai is good enough.

TBH: Im sure the visa money is just tea money, I made a right mess of the form, I made lots of crossings out and alterations for which I apologised for, he basically said "give me the money and disappear will ya'". Im sure the form just ended up in the bin.

PS: When is it not "overtime" for a Laos immigration officer ? I paid 40B on the way in, but the Thai gamblers had to pay to get their paper entry permits stamped + 100B overtime fee. Even the queue of Thais had to laugh at that one at the remark I made out loud to that one.

Yeah, all the legit stuff you will actually get a receipt for, or the amount will be stamped in your passport. If there is no receipt, and no stamp of the amount in your passport (in the case of a visa), it's a scam. Those overtime fees are actually legit, but only at nighttime I believe, where you will actually get a receipt for paying it. The daytime fee they charge is a crock.

I stopped paying the "+100 baht" during my poipet border runs, as they stamp "20 dollars" into your passport when you buy the cambodian visa. If they want 20 dollars plus 100, they need to stamp in somewhere. My new rule

A solution in search of a problem.

I was hearing lately about one private international school in BKK where the students were upset because the administration had decided to change the prior standard for getting an A grade in classes, which had been anything over 80%, to the new standard of at least 90% to get an A.

This was one of my first unpleasant surprises when I started teaching here. 80% or better is a 4.0, and 50% is still passing. When I was in school it was:

A: 90-100

B: 80-89

C: 70-79

D: 60-69

F: <60

Also, some of the subjects I teach are pass/fail at the 50% mark. Students can cut every class and still pass.

I had a problem with this too. I just figured it was "their problem" however. I gave my tests, which I thought were very fair, and I took the highest score in every class and made that 100%. I then gave participation and homework points etc. When my grades came out in the end, all of the "A Students" (the real A students who should be getting A's), were lumped in with all these semi smart kids that didn't do too much...... because 80% was an A. The difference between 100% in my class (which I actually had once), and 80 percent was nothing, yet the difference in how much each actually learned was HUGE! lol I just figured, let the Thai logic continue; I gave them their percent values, and let Thai logic take it from there was my stance. I mean I could have went through the trouble of readjusting my scale or something, but it just seemed too subjective. Yet another reason for the kids not to try in the Thai schooling system.

I think I could take it if Thai women put lightening makeup on their face, but they end up putting powder, another opposite other cultures want to go darker/flesh tones...... but my point is it looks absolutely hideous. The powder face look is so disgusting. Granted younger generation seems better about this, but the powder look has got to go.

I also notice Thai girls disinclination to wear bikinis. Another opposite, and a very troubling one at that.

The irony for me is everyone is poor and everything is expensive here. You know, you can get a really good, fresh peach pie in the US for 5 bucks when they go on sale. A REALLY good one. I was just walking through emporium and a little, teeny low quality PIECE of cake is 120 baht. An entire high quality peach pie 150 baht, a little sliver crap piece of cake for 120 baht. This is not really a rant, just the truth.

so you claim EVERYTHING is expensive in thailand based on the examples of western deserts that use imported products??

I wanted to help out here, because 2 people brought up the same, meaningless point

When people say "everything" and "everybody", they aren't necessarily talking about every thing on earth, or every human being on the planet. Examples for your enlightenment......

"Everybody has a cellphone"..... this commonly used phrase does not mean that every baby, mother and child from the deepest depths of Africa, to the Aborigines in Australia have cell phones.

"Everything is ok"...... this very common phrase does not mean that every single aspect and molecule in the entire cosmos is somehow in a state of being "ok."

I hope you can now be on your way to a better understanding of how human beings communicate

Definitely flipped around here because the Thais have no logic. Here is an example. Thais will not question even the lowest of authorities when an obvious error has been made. A School secretary can dictate school policy because there is no school policy. My daughter was left out of English immersion because there was NO communication from the school concerning deadlines for exams or payments. My Thai wife would not question the authority of the school secretary. She was more or less ' " Oh well. " I was, " let's ask the principal" No No No - a decision has been made. In Farangastan several parents would be up in arms and allowances made for the school's obvious error in communication.

In Farangastan privacy of personal information is paramount. Here in Thailand everyone can see your info and tell others. Example during the recent Laos registration one woman who was NOT a government worker sat outside the office and looked at all the information of the registrants for 5 or 6 days through a window. The info was displayed on a computer screen. She sat on a chair and kept popping up and down to view the screen. No government worker even when it was brought to their attention did anything about it.

Thai Logic examples. USA doctor's office open when people are at work 9 -5. Thailand doctor's office open 5 - 9. USA banks close at 5PM when people get off work. Thailand banks close 8 PM giving people a chance to bank after working hours. Some examples of Thai logic. The doctor tells me what kind of medicine I need over the phone. I go to the pharmacy and get it. USA can't do. They want me to pay an extra couple of thousand baht for the doctor to write a prescription. Western logic; get frustrated - take a pill. Thai logic; get frustrated - visit a go go. Do you want me to go on about examples where Thai logic is superior?

Those late banking hours are only at the malls. The rest of them do seem to close around 4 or 5 here, plus you can do almost anything on the internet in the US completely circumventing the need to go into a bank. In fact, my best account, the Schwab brokerage/checking, they dont even have a branch, you just do everything you need online or by way of prepaid (ie good customer service) envelopes.

Things are whack here, let's all face it. They have computers, yet everything is compartmentalized for some odd reason, as if the computers do not exist.

I wont go tit for tat for every point you make, but I will say in general that I have been growing ever more fond of the regulations we have in the West. For example, there are geological survey requirements before a building goes up. Kinda a pain, yes. Guess what, they can't build anything here without it falling apart in less than a year. I don't hear about many buildings falling, but the status quo just seems to be build crap, patch it up, repeat.

One ting that has really been driving me crazy here is when I have a problem at a bank for example, and they can't take care of it (yet someone can of course), they seem to refuse to call the person that can take care of it for you. They tell me to go to that branch! They have phones and fax machines. Another opposite. Not only would I not be told to go to another branch in the west, I probably would never have to do anything than say my mother's maiden name. For me this is the core, the lack of service here. Maybe I am just a homesick, raving lunatic. I have never been homesick in my life though.... truth.

Anyway, nice to see different points of view.

This is great news. I remember when I was in school we'd get out at 230 and have a ton of time for physical activity, which we definitely took advantage of. The kids don't learn anything in school anyway, it is stupid to have them sit there so many hours. Let them out. So much healthier. I guarantee at many schools the teachers will have to stay until the same time, if this even goes through.

Thais and physical activity don't go well together.

Even if that is true, I think anything is healthier than them being in those classrooms that long, especially at that age. In caveman terms, school = good, too much school - very very bad.

I personally think among the many shortcomings here, thailand's physical education has to be one of the worst. I can't think of too many countries that don't rally around at least a sport or two. I suppose it is soccer here, but it's just not the right fit with the weather imo.... like Canadians and baseball It is just hopeless though, any way you look at it. It's too bad. But how healthy would it be for the country if every group of say 3 schools had their own olympic sized pool they could practice various sports in. Basic swimming, diving, snorkeling/scuba 101. I know this is out of left field but this country needs something. I don't see what kid in the world wont long to be around a pool in this weather either if you just get them to where they aren't scared of drowning.

This is great news. I remember when I was in school we'd get out at 230 and have a ton of time for physical activity, which we definitely took advantage of. The kids don't learn anything in school anyway, it is stupid to have them sit there so many hours. Let them out. So much healthier. I guarantee at many schools the teachers will have to stay until the same time, if this even goes through.

Degree and experience get into a position at 50k or higher...those places that pay 35k are usually for non degree or non natives. In the meantime hit up corporate part time evening stuff

NOT TRUE.... it depends on the school and what they can get away with. I have been teaching in Thailand for 8 years. I started out at 25K cash under the table because the school was too cheap to get a work permit. 50K jobs are a rarity. I work in Pattaya and have been with the same company for 6 years now (Private Thai School) and only make 45... AND THEY PAY WELL FOR PATTAYA.

.

Protip: If your school is working you illegally they don't give a damn about you having a degree or not.

Why in God's name you were working for 25k in the first place....that's the sort of behavior that only encourages these skinflint employers to keep wages low.

It doesn't encourage them to keep wages low..... it literally keeps the wages low. Big difference. These places are making absurd amounts of money. Do you think wall street is going to close its doors because you wont accept a 40k salary. No, they will have to start paying more if nobody accepted it. But, people do accept it, so they keep paying it. Why wouldn't they? I would do the exact same thing if it were my business.

Every farang out there that takes a job for 30k shoves the proverbial dildo up the ass of others who want to legitimately work here long term. Look at it like this..... if I have a business, and a competitor is undercutting me..... well, I am not too worried, I know my expenses and I have priced myself accordingly to stay in business.

In Thailand all bets are off because you have a revolving door of the undercutters who can't make it. They make the impossible salaries "possible" by way of being able to high tail it out of here. That is exactly what is going on, and I wish people would understand it. When the people come in and say "30k is workable"..... well, that may be true until you run into a problem, which a long term person will, have a child, want a house...... pretty much ANYTHING. People, get over this thought that 30k is enough. It is not! It does not matter that your single ass is able to live for a few months off of this, it is not a sustainable salary. Not even close!