MacChine

Well Ididn'tt grow up with my grandfather, nor in his town. In fact my mother would chide him for using the term around her daughter. . I only argue he used a racist term in a racist way , but completely denied it was racist, So seems folks like him abound on the forum.

Thais are racist, xenophobic and for the most part, sadly uneducated and feudal. They don't fool me, but I'm not into procuring them either,

If a term is used to denote a race, and farang means Caucasian, then it is racist, and it's casual use, especially in front of me, <deleted> , is evidence of just how ingrained racism is in the culture.

I well remember my grandfather defending the term N*gg*r as "not racist. " Of course it was and of course he was.

Farang is not a racist term. It's only the idea of certain people who get offended for any reason and think that others are out to disrespect them. Yes some use it as a derogatory term but the word itself is not racist and was not created to insult people.

I don't think it is a bad thing, if it conforms to this rule: Is it being used in the same way you would use "Asian" in English when talking about someone from this continent? If so, ok.

For example, A: "Where is Joe?

B: "Who?"

A: "You know, Joe, the falang from down the street."

That seems totally fine to me as I would do the same thing if I were talking about an Asian guy at home. It would be an easy way to identify him.

I object to it if it is someone who has met me already and keeps calling me falang. Again, I wouldn't do that to an Asian in the West...it would be rude.

So, really, it just means someone from the West and doesn't have to be bad, depending on how it is used.

Before you put your mouth in motion, you should put your brain in gear!

You do not have any idea of what the word Farang means, in comes from the Persian word "Farangg" that was brought to Thailand in the 1700's, 200 years before the westerners arrived in any significant numbers to Thailand during the Vietnam.war.

Documents by historical facts that the word Farang did not originated in Thailand, and it is not used as an insult. That word is widely used in North Africa and the Middle East as well is the Hindi language in India and simple means foreigner with European heritage.

I know many of you "need" the word to be an insult, so you can have something to complain about,(I have my opinion do not try to distort it with facts.)

The example you gave that "your grandfather defending the term n###*r as not racist'" only gives an indication of the type of environment you grew up in. The answer being at your finger tips on the internet, if you really wanted to know the true definition of that word, It is truly a sad indication of how your world is enclosed by your blinders and tunnel vision perception and you only see what you want to see regardless of the proven historical facts that prove you are wrong.

Cheers:

Yes it is , it's as racist as any other slang term denoting race.

Argue all you like. Farang is not a racist term.

What a load!! Referring to people in slang that denotes their skin colour and race, " isn't racist ..."

My god, is there nothing foreigners in Tand won't put up with to maintain their access to sex?

" had grown from being a rickety warehouse supported by wooden pillars and a corrugated-iron roof into a buzzing economic centre for local wholesalers and retailers, with a daily sales volume worth more than Bt10 million a day." My understanding is that it went from being a rickety warehouse, etc to being a rickety warehouse supported by wooden posts, etc. Seems criminal none of that "10 million a day" went into making the place less risky.....

Hey now, let's be fair. over the years , they did add miles of bare electrical wiring to hold it all together ..

^ Trees are often forested for building supplies. In fact trees make a very sustainable building material, if managed properly.

But that's a good point and we could carry it further with who built those houses? Probably underpaid Burmese, and yes maybe the house I live in was built from unsustainable timber by virtual slaves. It does concern me, and I would have it differently, but I cannot change it at this point.

Cutting trees down that make an avenue far more livable, and putting local residents in danger to facilitate tourism-, wholly unsustainable tourism is something that could be changed, today if enough wanted it..

What are Thai expats protecting?

@MacChine: In case you are not simply trolling, or what the heck.

I recommend for you to read the some of the older posts on this forum. You might find a post or two about the public transportation and tuk-tuks on this island.

Yeah I know about the problems, and IMO, these solutions are anything but.

You argue the roads need widening as there is too much traffic but do not address, why is there too much traffic? ( which I have not witnessed on this particular road)

It's about taxis driving faster.

Well " burn "is perhaps the wrong word for bones, but turned into something no longer recognizable as such is achieved in crematoriums, so it seems to me this fire burned hot enough for that. It had a lot of fuel in way of plastics too.

However reports are now the fire spread slowly enough for all to get out, so let us hope it is the case

That fire would have completely obliterated bodies anywhere near the center of

It would be no where near the temp required to incinerate bones.

Sent from my Atari 2600

Yes I'm aware you can't just fire someone as you don't like the way they look, but having the workplace evaporate may well be considered justified cause. That's really my question, will they have to pay severance or not?

While it is pure speculation at this point to even suggest the fire was deliberate, what is the rule on paying severance to suddenly unemployed workers under these circumstances, one has to wonder?

Phuket governor to find relief measures for fire-impacted SuperCheap workers
By English News

BANGKOK, Oct 17 - Interior Minister Jarupong Ruangsuwan today instructed concerned agencies to help than 3,000 workers of fire-leveled SuperCheap hypermarket in this southern resort island.

The minister said the situation was under control this morning and that an investigation is underway to find cause of the fire.

The blaze began about 9.30pm last night at the SuperCheap department store on Thepkasattri Road in the Phuket provincial seat.

Mr Jarupong instructed the Phuket governor to convene a meeting of concerned agencies to speed relief measures for the affected. Help centres were set up -- one directed by the National Police Bureau while another as a cooperation of the Ministry of Labour and the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security.

Initial inspection found that 2,736 SuperCheap employees and some 700 Myanmar migrant workers have been affected, according to the minister.

Mr Jarupong said the Department of Employment is prepared to support temporary employment with about 1,600 available job positions.

The minister added that the SuperCheap owner will be asked to join the governor's meeting to help lay out emergency relief measures for the company's workers and other affected persons within today.

Phuket governor Maitree Intusutr said it took about 15 hours to extinguish the fire and he reaffirmed that, as of Thursday, no one was killed or injured in the incident.

He said concerned officials are waiting for permission from police to enter the compound to probe the cause of the fire and search for any casualties. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-10-17

Focusing on the Social Security aspect, with that many employees including migrant workers that means SuperCheap have been paying approximately 1,374’400 baht in social security payments per month to the relevant department of social security & labour. Assuming if correct that they had 3436 employees (inclusive migrants) x 400bht per month in monthly payments.

Therefore, as a result of this incident Social Security are looking down the barrel of having to payout each worker approximately 4500bht per month or a total of 15million in social security payments per month until they find new work for them.

It’s not a wonder everyone is silent to date on the death and injury status of these workers (let alone those who were shopping there) as this Social Security entitlement also includes Health Care card too. So we can only hope SuperCheap have been keeping up to date with these payments, as does every other business has to, for the benefit of these workers in the future.

See herewith below:

Termination Without Cause

When there is termination without cause, it is compulsory that the employer give a written notice and make severance payment to the employee according to the length of unbroken service, as shown below.

Period of Service Days (inclusive of holidays, leave days, and days on which work stoppage is ordered by the employer)

- 120 days but less than 1 year

30 days

- 1 year to 3 years

90 days

- 3 years to 6 years

180 days

- 6 years to 10 years

240 days

- 10 years up

300 days

The employer can terminate the services of an employee immediately by making payment in lieu of notice.

An employee can bring an action against his/her employer in the Labor Court if the employee thinks the employment was terminated by unfair practices.

Source;http://www.thailaws.com/information/thai_legal_info_07.htm

That fire would have completely obliterated bodies anywhere near the center of it.

Also, I spoke with two Burmese who are working in other parts of the island and who had friends or family working in Supercheap that night, who have not been seen since than. The Burmese community claims that they know if at least 70-100 people that have died during the blaze.

It seems to me that they really do try to cover it up.

Might be because there were so many illegal workers there. How could you confirm the death of a person that doesn´t even exist legally in this country?

I also wonder of the lack of official information about the injuries and deaths. They could say "So far we have not found any casulties." or "We have found burned bodies." or similar. But so far nada.

Then again, how they would be able to hide the bodies from public eye as nowdays everybody carries some sort of cameras. How tightly restricted the area is currently?

The real solution is an efficient public transport, again, it is not profitable so... livability suffers.

Well, if you have an argument , other than a personal slur, to support your point that... well er,.... what's is your point? I've got about 9 likes on my statement so there seems to be a consensus that there is truth to it.

I also wonder how many defenders here have Thai partners sheilding them from certain realities- that Thais dislike foreigners intensely. And yes, I'd say you may well have a disingenuous partner using you for money.

I say dam_n straight Thais are xenophobic. It is apparent in the immigration and foreign business rules, too.

The point of those various slang terms is that it's very, very rude to use them. To call someone a chink or wop is bad enough but when they are in front of you? Indescribably rude, Thais get away with it , as they do with other appalling behavior and rules as many western males need to engage them sexually.

I often call Thais on it when they refer to me as farang, " Please don't use racist terms.." I'll say. Especially in service type situations such as in the bank, etc. Of course they giggle in that idiotic way they use to cover up stupid mistakes. And of course I simply stare at them with my most rigid poker face , and of course they get uncomfortable , and of course I enjoy it !!

Yep, I have no respect for their obscenely feudal, sexist culture, and no they are not a race, ( though some seem to think they are..)but a nation of poorly educated people that detest foreigners and see them as nothing but wallets.

All IMO, of course!!

you must be a riot to live with.

If a term is used to denote a race, and farang means Caucasian, then it is racist, and it's casual use, especially in front of me, <deleted> , is evidence of just how ingrained racism is in the culture.

I well remember my grandfather defending the term N*gg*r as "not racist. " Of course it was and of course he was.

Farang is not a racist term. It's only the idea of certain people who get offended for any reason and think that others are out to disrespect them. Yes some use it as a derogatory term but the word itself is not racist and was not created to insult people.

While it is pure speculation at this point to even suggest the fire was deliberate, what is the rule on paying severance to suddenly unemployed workers under these circumstances, one has to wonder?

Phuket governor to find relief measures for fire-impacted SuperCheap workers
By English News

BANGKOK, Oct 17 - Interior Minister Jarupong Ruangsuwan today instructed concerned agencies to help than 3,000 workers of fire-leveled SuperCheap hypermarket in this southern resort island.

The minister said the situation was under control this morning and that an investigation is underway to find cause of the fire.

The blaze began about 9.30pm last night at the SuperCheap department store on Thepkasattri Road in the Phuket provincial seat.

Mr Jarupong instructed the Phuket governor to convene a meeting of concerned agencies to speed relief measures for the affected. Help centres were set up -- one directed by the National Police Bureau while another as a cooperation of the Ministry of Labour and the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security.

Initial inspection found that 2,736 SuperCheap employees and some 700 Myanmar migrant workers have been affected, according to the minister.

Mr Jarupong said the Department of Employment is prepared to support temporary employment with about 1,600 available job positions.

The minister added that the SuperCheap owner will be asked to join the governor's meeting to help lay out emergency relief measures for the company's workers and other affected persons within today.

Phuket governor Maitree Intusutr said it took about 15 hours to extinguish the fire and he reaffirmed that, as of Thursday, no one was killed or injured in the incident.

He said concerned officials are waiting for permission from police to enter the compound to probe the cause of the fire and search for any casualties. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-10-17

Focusing on the Social Security aspect, with that many employees including migrant workers that means SuperCheap have been paying approximately 1,374’400 baht in social security payments per month to the relevant department of social security & labour. Assuming if correct that they had 3436 employees (inclusive migrants) x 400bht per month in monthly payments.

Therefore, as a result of this incident Social Security are looking down the barrel of having to payout each worker approximately 4500bht per month or a total of 15million in social security payments per month until they find new work for them.

It’s not a wonder everyone is silent to date on the death and injury status of these workers (let alone those who were shopping there) as this Social Security entitlement also includes Health Care card too. So we can only hope SuperCheap have been keeping up to date with these payments, as does every other business has to, for the benefit of these workers in the future.

Excellent response to Catweazle Emdog, and I'll reiterate- It's the accountability that's lacking.

This incident really has me finally deciding Thailand is just no place to live - it's just too unsafe in every way, to consider retirement in.

So which country then it is that you find "safe enough" to retire in? If I remember correctly I have been reading about...

Costa Concordia (not really a Thai ship operated by Thais, huh?)

Tunnel desasters and infernos in several european countries, including the "oh so safe" Switzerland

Bombs going off on an almost regular basis near bus stations, subways or public events in Britain and the US of A (THIS wasn't at at bomb factory, a commercial business. Why we call it "terrorism")

Old or helpless people being kicked into coma or death by immigrant youths just for fun in Germany and other "oh so safe" western cities

School shootings in the US of A (never had one in Thailand, at least not where students do the shooting - thinking about Thammasat massacre in 76) (They tend to prefer machetes.... again, not an established commercial enterprise... I don't think!)

Chain reaction collisions in England, Germany and other european countries on highways due to fog

Aviation desasters of mainly western and former russian airlines (With the number of planes in the air, inevitable. Flying is still safest way to move)

High tech Japan being nuked by building nuclear plants right on the beach in areas that are well-known Tsunami passages

Civilized world high speed trains derailing

Western ice skating domes collapsing

Wild fires in the US of A and Australia, destroying hundreds if not thousands of homes near forests (These are called "acts of God" unless you are suggesting removing all vegetation. Did that on Jomtien beach road... yarg!)

Skyscrapers "collapsing" after being "attacked" by "hijacked" airplanes because the air force was too busy (or disabled) to intercept (are you suggesting we license terrorists? Fault for this lies at the top, imho)

Huge areas of the US coast being put on a silver plate to be destroyed by storms and storm floods because the government did not see any reason to reinforce or repair the flood walls and dykes (Agreed. and then rebuilding New Orleans.... idiots)

Thousands of homes being destroyed by hurricanes in Hurricane Alley and other, similar areas in the US of A (Act of God)

Dams collapsing in the US of A and "oh so safe"western super countries

Shopping center collapses in Korea

Bridges collapse in western countries all over the world on an almost daily basis...

... and on and on it goes and YOU are telling us here that Thailand is unsafe? Oh man, get a life!

So I agree there are plenty of examples of stupidity in other countries. But addition of certain charges weakens your argument, in my opinion.

So it seems you'd agree, Thailand safety standards are lax? How was this firetrap allowed to operate?

A bit OT, but pertinent to your post; I drove up from Malaysia the other day and witnessed utterly insane driving the whole way,

most notably a Hat Yai - Phuket bus going 85 mph on a stretch of road that I, in my super agile and safe Toyota sports car would only drive about 60 mph on. I don't see that kind of blatant disregard in the US.

Yes accidents and infrastructure meltdowns occur, all over the world but the difference is the accountability, there is none in Thailand -life is cheap and lies are free.

btw " Get a life" is such an infantile, tired cliche that does nothing for your assertion that Thailand is a s safe as anywhere else. That is your claim , is it not? Let's have a poll !!

what im wondering is why no one has picked up on the fact that supercheap had recently bought land behind its store to destroy and rebuild and entire new and modern store?

Conveniently about a year and a half after it burns to the ground which is about the timeframe it requires to draw plans, put money in pockets and get materials for building

Do you have a source for this info please ?

Would be good to find out if the store was insured or not. If any insurance company covered that pigpen built of old timber and corrugated metal, they must either have been out of their minds or anyone on the management floor all of a sudden "won" a new Mercedes after signing the deed...

Noticed more widening on the road from Heroine Monument to Cherng-Telay , and more old trees being cut down- and for what? I've never seen traffic problems on the road, it seems if it's unsafe, it's because speed limits are not enforced.

Now the taxi vans will be able to reach super-sonic speeds going right through a residential neighborhood, enabling more profit. The "safer " a road is, the faster people will drive on it .

Those trees added a lot- now it just looks like like any other third world tourist trap on the descent. Makes me sick, the lack of regard the authorities have for quality of life over money money money. The worst example was a huge old Banyan near the by pass road, cut down for a bill board.

I recently came from a visit to Georgetown, Penang and all the lovely, centuries old trees really give the city such a beautiful park like atmosphere.

With thousands of new condos planned for the area, I can see there will shortly be no future economy in Phuket, other than bargain hunting tourists. What's worse is as a foreigner I have no right to protest this.

Sickening.

^^ Or they have an appreciation for the truth- Thais have a whole other mindset on safety. Money rules all, and the fact this place, ( and others ) operated for years with glaring safety issues is proof.

NO one who has ever shopped there can be surprised, the old timber and Thai stye wiring , it was inevitable. Probably a cigarette or something equally minor.

I shall miss the 270 baht bottle of Paul Bernard sparkling wine I used for my fizzy wine spritzers. And the restaurant has , er had the best fresh spring rolls.

I took a cat out of there a couple of months ago , felt a little foolish when it turned out she'd already been fixed, but she was so affectionate I kept her, guiltily, glad I did now. ( Calico if anyone is concerned, her name is SuperCheap)

Oh those poor fish, boiled alive in their horrid little bottle worlds.

I hope the reports of virtually no casualties is correct, but very hard to believe.

This incident really has me finally deciding Thailand is just no place to live - it's just too unsafe in every way, to consider retirement in.

I really doubt suicide has anything to do with circumstances. It is a chemical imbalance that overwhelms nature's will to survive.

True, Thai expats may be more at risk, (and alcohol is a HUGE factor in suicide too, ) but this may be more attributable to lack of any social support.

If anyone is feeling mildly suicidal, and has such thoughts chronically, I would recommend St John's Wort, aka Hyperiforte. It works so well Germany has categorized this gentle herb as a prescription drug

Not all people crave company. They may find others tedious and boring. If people live alone, it usually is a choice.

This may be a bit like go and have a cuppa with the old codger down the road as you may be the only person they speak to all week.

My mam has been on her own for 14 years now, and the more time I spend with her, the more I realise just what loneliness is. It must be a terrible way to feel.

May I suggest that if anyone has a neighbour who is alone, invite them for a couple of beers or a cup of coffee. Even if they are a pain or talk rubbish, just for an hour or so. It may save their life.

"Not all people crave company. They may find others tedious and boring. If people live alone, it usually is a choice."

Amen. And quite often it's the unavoidable company/intrusion/demands/expectations/busy-bodiness of "others" that drives one to contemplate suicide, not the absence of them. You don't need to be alone to feel lonely and being alone is not synonymous with loneliness.

You're right. The reasons people commit suicide are as varied as human beings on this planet. Things that may drive one to take their own life may not bother another in the very least. People couldn't understand why Kurt Cobain took his own life at 27. The guy was on the verge of superstardom and megawealth, yet... We simply can't put ourselves in their shoes because we're not all built the same way.

Suicide would bother me if it was someone close to me. Then I'd feel like maybe, just maybe, there was something I could have done about it. But if it was someone I didn't know...sure, pass out the fake condolences. But why would someone who intentionally took their own life deserve as much sympathy as someone who had it taken away without their consent? There are people being murdered every day. Or dying in car accidents. Or disease. Or starvation. Or even natural causes. I'd rather save my sympathies for them. My genuine sympathies, that is.

Not all people crave company. They may find others tedious and boring. If people live alone, it usually is a choice.

This may be a bit like go and have a cuppa with the old codger down the road as you may be the only person they speak to all week.

My mam has been on her own for 14 years now, and the more time I spend with her, the more I realise just what loneliness is. It must be a terrible way to feel.

May I suggest that if anyone has a neighbour who is alone, invite them for a couple of beers or a cup of coffee. Even if they are a pain or talk rubbish, just for an hour or so. It may save their life.

I agree with OP.

My 2 cents worth is that if I were to be contemplating such a thing I would want to be sure that the alternative (i.e. death) is going to be any better...

To anyone who might have suicidal thoughts my advice is to get on a bus to Pattaya. Go to a bar on beach road and sit at a table with a clear view to the ocean. Order a beer for yourself and your new bar girl (friend) and have her stroke your leg. If this doesn't raise your self esteem, I don't know what will.

Not sure how engaging the services of a bar-girl is really any kind of answer, especially for the 52% of the population that are female.

You choose to have a baby, you know the system in your own country, Im not surprised by any of this.

Women in Thailand do not have that choice

No one will ever convince me that Thais aren't suffering in levels of compassion. Just look at how animals are treated ( amongst other standards) Heritage is everything and life is cheap.