Vit42

It would be easy to tell your friend to do what’s most advantageous for him. Since he’s legally able to work in both countries and the company seems to be flexible to his desires.

However, there is a longer term business issue your friend and his employer need to consider. After all, isn’t the main purpose of any legal entity to make money and build a successful business? Short term you may be able to minimize tax exposure and the cost of setting up business. Long term, the legal implications of revenue generation will determine the taxable status of your friend and his employer.

I’m not a tax man and tax is certainly something that your friend and his employer should seriously seek professional advise for. The tax treaty between the US and Thailand is not as simple as following exemption guidelines.

I too have US/Thai citizenship having been born in Bangkok and having grown up in the US. I have also worked as a US expat in Thailand for a US/Thai joint-venture. I received salary and allowances beyond the exemption limits but was never double-taxed since my company’s tax advisors E&Y, made sure that the off-sets were correctly reported and accounted for.

In the end, in the short-term, if I were in your friend’s position, I would talk to the company about their long-term plans and plan accordingly. It’s not a bad decision to do what your friend suggests and get paid in the US while working in Thailand just as long as the tax, benefits, healthcare, and other open questions about any new job are taken care of. Eventually though, the switch will have to be made if your friend and the company are serious about making a successful business.

10 year plan to learn english??? C'mon, mandarin is becoming and will be the language that everyone will be desparate to learn.

My situation is probably different.  At the university facility I work at they do have a team come in once a year to do blood tests and the last time they also had an optometrist test eyes.  I always assumed it was because I worked at a nuclear research facility and testing for possible radiation exposure.

Whatever the reason, for the last few years I seemed to always "show up too late" 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Testing for radiation exposure? A lot of good that will do you since any acute exposure will be too little too late. Any kind of work that risks radiation exposure should be monitored over time and the results of exposure examined to make sure you don’t “overexpose” or exceed the threshold limits. In other words, controlled exposure is OK and monitoring keeps you safe. Doesn’t do much good to check for symptoms of exposure since prolong overexposure may not damage you until years hence.

Besides, it’s highly unlikely that a normal lab will be able to test for levels of radionuclides, rates of excretion, and calculate equivalent and effective doses.

Then again, I’m sure you must be well aware of this since you work in a nuclear research facility? BTW, what do you do?

"In through your nose, out through your mouth" as i learned it through martial arts training and chi meditation. There's lot's of different techniques for breathing in but to answer your question, it's not the stomach but the diaphram that expands when you breathe in and contracts as you breathe out. Think of it this way, if you were asked to take a deep breath and hold it for as long as possible under water, your diaphram would expand to accomodate as much air as possible. This is natural and would be normal for sport or meditation.

I've had friends in similar situations and they mentioned Jetanin (link below) as a great hospital that specializes specifically in assisted reproductivity treatment. To compare it to the U.S., many of the doctors and lab personnel are U.S. trained and the technology and procedures are based on U.S. practices. As long as you're not using donor egg or sperm, the procedure should be pretty much straight forward. Note that the doctors do see a lot more patients than you might expect from western doctors so be sure to make appointments in advance.

http://www.jetanin.com/

Hi bina,

I'm in boston and somewhat familiar with newton since i have friends that live there. It's not far from dowtown boston but that of course depends upon traffic more than distance.

The most popular shopping venues in boston are newbury street and around fanueil hall / haymarket square areas. Closer to newton may be harvard square and just across interstate 90 very near to newton is arsenal mall and another close one is chestnut hill mall. The malls are typical american but there's lots of small shops surrounding them too. Tax is 5% except for clothes. Top end electronics are very cheap relative to europe and asia.

I'd love to have a chat and a drink with you but i'll be in europe at that time. BTW, did you know that between sep-oct is when the boston population increases by 40,000 to 60,000? Yep, that's when all the colleges fill up with students for the new school year.

The weather is still mild here, 70-80 degrees f. October will be fun for watching the leaves change color. Too bad you can't stay for holloween when it get's fun to be in new england.

Best of luck. vit42

Bambina, if I misconstrued your o.p. I apologize. I wasn’t out to insult you or your parents but to put to the test whether or not your listed reasons for why thai girls adore farang guys was sound.

It may be true that a farang guy is perceived to provide bigger boxes, bigger wallets, more security, and so forth. However, all else being equal, I think people are first attracted to those that they can identify with in terms of heredity and culture. At least that’s been my experience with most thai girls. Now when does the threshold for trading up to a better life with a farang come into play? I think that depends upon where the thai girl is coming from (poverty, lack of education, lack of choices) and what the thai guys she’s meeting with have to offer.

anyhow , nex time  when  u  read something i wish  u could  read it well and  realize that what is the  point

Bambi

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Take no notice of Vit42 Bambi, we who read your question correctly, know what point you are asking.

vit42, personally i think you owe bambi an apology for making personal comments about Bambi's mother and father. No need for that mate

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On the contrary, I thought I was rather reserved compared to another poster. My point wasn’t to insult bambina or lambaste her or her parents. Note the title of her o.p.: “Do Farangs Think They Are Beter Than Thai Guys?” and the context of her o.p. stating all the reasons why she thinks “TH gal like farang guy”. My point was to say that her title is provocative to say the least and her reason was flawed (as to my pointed questions regarding her parents). If her mom and dad were thai and ok, why would she pose this question or think less of thai guys? I suspect that she like the attention from all the farang guy friends she’s made in this forum and poses this question to entice more attention and affection. And here you’ve proven my point, big, strong, handsome, farang to the rescue as thai guy “abuses” thai girl.

So BambinA, I take it your dad:

1 didn’t take care of you or your mom well

2 cheated on your mom

3 was ugly compared to farang

4 didn’t know how to treat your mom (sex was ok enough to have you)

5 didn’t have a nice box (not that you were checking)

6 cared a lot about your mom’s past

7 didn’t do well in bed (same as #4?)

Not trying to be subversive but your question is really quite pointless. So what if a farang guy thinks he’s better than a thai guy and visa versa? Thinking something doesn’t make it true. If anything your question is perpetuating stereotypical answers and allowing farangs to tout their own horn.

Oh, Christ, here we go. The cry of the sanctimonious, self-appointed guardians of the politically correct is about to be heard again in the land.....

Have you ever noticed when someone says that 'they' are lovely, smiling, gentle folk who love us all ever so much that there's never a peep heard out of these smug, superior guardians of self-righteousness about 'cultural generalizations?'

But when you utter even a single word that might be taken as criticism of 'them,' the preachy, moralizing, pious types come spilling out of the trees to remind everyone how superior they are to rest of us, burdened as we are with our less evolved sense of social justice. Lord help us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

“Sanctimonious”, “self-appointed”, “superior guardians”, “preachy”, “moralizing”, “pious types”? Wow, someone’s been reading the bible on the wrong side of the bed. I never knew that voicing one’s opinion could get such high praise.

“politically correct”? I believe the accusations that thai workers are harder to manager, unwilling to change, and so forth is a generalization and are traits that can be found anywhere, even with falang workers. I was voicing what I though was correct but must have gotten the bonus award for being pc too???

“smug” now there’s a word I like. Rhymes with hug, bug, lug, chug, plug, and ug, other words that i like. And being labeled a peepless smug when I don’t disagree with other opinions doesn’t seem that bad. Thanks, oldhandasia for your words of encouragement, enlightenment, and infinite insights into my postings (please note the sarcasm).

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference." --Reinhold Niebuhr, The Serenity Prayer

Though I’m far from having a religious bent, I’ve always found solace in the above words.

I agree with chechoie, bad and good people all over the world. In my career of managing 100+ engineers in thailand for a semiconductor company, managing sales and faes in china and taiwan, managing project managers in the u.s. and europe, I’ve found that cultural differences aside, people are the same wherever you go.

Knowing how to motivate your workers shows your ability to culturally understand and assimilate their individual raison d’etre. Trying to fit your preconceived notions of “what’s best for them” on them is a sure recipe for failure in any culture.

Serenity now! – Frank Costanza

Here we go again with the stereotyping and over the top generalizations about “them” as if all thais were the same. Not to mention the hypocrisy that led many foreigners to Thailand in the first place, namely to go someplace that they can relax and enjoy themselves and escape the never ending rat race of western societies.

Don’t worry mates, in due time you’ll get your dream and Thailand will be transformed to satisfy your so-called civilized way of living and thais will become as greedy for success as most falangs.

In the meantime, keep asking yourself, how I could make “them” understand that if they would only listen to me and change for the “better”, all would be right in the world. After all, the western world is full of wonderful examples of how the great things could be if all of us just work our asses off, get nice and fat, and die of heart attacks.

To answer the op's original question: you got yourself into another country with another way of doing things. Change is possible but how do you expect "them" to be willing to change (or respect someone who tells "them" to change) unless you are willing to change and learn the language?

The idea is not new to Thailand as you can read the excerpt below from a 1995 study from the Thai medical association journal. The names and hospitals mentioned might be a good place for you to start your own due diligence.

I take it you’re targeting foreigners for your camp? It may be cheaper in Thailand but the inconvenience of traveling, being in another country, eating unusual food, and suffering from the much hotter conditions may make your idea difficult to execute.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...6&dopt=Abstract

A summer camp for childhood obesity in Thailand.

Jirapinyo P, Limsathayourat N, Wongarn R, Limsathayourat N, Bunnag A, Chockvivatvanit S.

Clinical Research Center, Department of Pediatrics, Faculty of Medicine, Siriraj Hospital, Mahidol University, Bangkok, Thailand.

The results of a 4-week summer camp for childhood obesity were reported. Twenty-one children with moderate to severe obesity, aged between 8-13 years, joined the program. Dietary restriction during the official hours and dietary self-control at home were implemented throughout the program. Exercise, swimming and group therapy were also implemented throughout the program. Weekly sight-seeing outside the camp was very interesting for the participants. After the program, all participants had lost weight which was about 5 per cent of their initial weight. Most of the weight loss was due to loss of body fat but not lean body mass. No complications occurred during the program. The 4-week summer camp is then practical for initiating weight loss for obese children. Long-term follow-up which is underway will be reported later.

I agree cclub75, you should get the facts before taking any action or making any noise. Here are a few selected facts but google for yourself or look at the link:

http://liver.stanford.edu/index2.asp?lang=...page=statistics

- Hepatitis B virus is not spread by air, food, water, breastfeeding, casual contact in an office setting, kissing, hugging, coughing, sneezing, and sharing eating utensils or drinking glasses.

- In the United States, an estimated 130,000 people become infected with HBV each year.

- An estimated 1.3 million Americans are chronically infected with HBV. Over half are API Americans.

Truth is, if you tested all of your employees, thai or other, there's a definite probability that more than just the one has the virus. In other words, unless you're business involves exchanging of bodily fluids, then don't worry. Not sure why you would consider cutting his salary as a means to limit the virus or to punish him???

SC, I hate to relate a similar story to you ladies but be forewarned. Whatever rules, laws, regulations are in place, when dealing with custody by parents of two different nationalities (not just Thailand), there’s bound to be trouble if there is a battle over the kids and the parents aren’t being amicable.

The story: my good friend, half-thai and half-american, went through a terrible ordeal. Her thai dad was married to her mom in the u.s. They decided to split and things got ugly to the point that the dad took her without permission to live in Thailand. Call it love or spite, she ended up growing up in Thailand without her mom. The mom tried in vain to get her back but eventually suffered in depression. The daughter came back to the u.s. but could never recover the relationship with the mom. All lives were messed up and still are.

Lesson learned? Be careful who you have children with cause if things go sour, it’s the children who could suffer even more. And remember, enforcing rules for family disputes is difficult enough in one country and almost impossible across borders.

SC, you're very lucky to get your boy back, how did you do it? Keep hold of him tight and best of luck to you.

P.S. not all thai guys are that bad, at least that's what my wife tells me!

Beyond the usual stereotyped remarks, there’s no way anyone here will be able to assess what the outcome will be for your situation. Are we to assume that your interviews have been with thai MDs and not falang MDs? The only thing in your control is you!

Without knowing the context of your interviews, it appears that you may have blundered one of the many and varied rules of negotiation: Don’t accept a job offer until the compensation has been discussed and don’t be the one to offer up an amount first.

Obviously you set yourself up for disappointment if you accept a job and haven’t agreed upon compensation. When negotiating compensation, being the first to tell them what you want is like showing them your hand at a poker table. If you’re lower than they expected, you probably would have heard back from them a lot sooner. If you’re higher than they expected, then they will take time to figure out if you’re worth it or not. It’s much better to find out what they are willing to offer and for you to bargain for more if necessary. Of course if they offered you more, then shut up and smile.

I have a feeling that you were too high and they are looking for alternatives. Don’t lose all hope though and be prepared to compromise. After all, you endgame is to work in Thailand where the fringe benefits outweigh much of the disparity you will find in your salary.

Nice suggestions edh, i didn't know about those stores. Are there also furniture stores in the same area with the modern, euro look?

Prem-R, high-end importers also exist in the city but i'm not sure of it makes sense to outfit that many apartment units with these since it's going to bump up your price quite a bit.

http://www.arclinea.it/riv_uk2.asp?language=en

http://www.boffi.com/english/rivenditori/m...iland&l=Bangkok

If you're looking for some thai companies that try to imitate (and some import) the euro design but without the high prices try these:

http://www.modernform.com/kitchen.htm

http://www.indexlivingmall.com/en/product/...ryID=2&subID=12

BTW, what's the story behind your apartments? Where are they located and what's the estimated price range? Who's your target buyer? What's the style? What about furniture? I'm just curious because i always like to check out the new developments coming on line.

My brother-in-law, thai, is an interior designer with his own furniture shop. He used to work for a large firm but went out on his own a few years ago and is going gangbusters. He travels to italy every year for inspiration and has been featured in several magazines. His style is mainly modern contemporary. He's a busy guy but if you're interested, you should stop by his store (UOMO) at SC Park hotel and check out if his style fits with yours. You can also pm me and i can send you some pics and answer more detailed questions. I guess it all depends upon what you're looking for and why you think you need an interior designer.

Wow.... Heavy reading....

So.....

... What time does the pub open then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not soon enough after all this crap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wish I was there to buy the 1st round guys… maybe next time I’m in town. Anyone who’s read through this whole thread and stayed awake definitely deserves one on me.

Hi:

No, actually for me understanding AND acknowledging is a matter of fact.  What I mean is that I need to fully understand something before I evaluate a situation or analysis.  Fully understanding something to me means examining the situation, topic, or hyposthesis from many different angles, including and accounting for my own bias.  I have based my comments on many different sources (published and unpublished, formal and informal), corroborations, observations and anecdotal information and interviews.  As I said earlier, I have mentioned and posted some of my sources on earlier posts.  I'll be happy to do so again, but just not at this time (away from home).  But I have pointed you in the direction to start dredging things up on your own. 

The problem in general, but especially in Thailand, is that there are no "official" statistics because they are not kept well, but also because no one wants to know the real numbers.  Asia is also a region in which even the underreporting of rape is a problem, because of a deeply entrenched cultural attitude of shame.  Therefore, you have to piece together a lot of information from other sources, including other statistics.  Also, as other posters have mentioned, there is a fluid definition of "prostitution" that is at odds.  This itself is worthy of a whole other topic for which I don't have time at the moment.  And by the way, not all good social research is conducted through samples and control groups, because in certain cases this could yield its own distortions, and is no guarantee, especially when you cannot rely on straight answers, or different definitions.  So do I claim to have "factual" information?  No, the point is that no one does, for good reason.  We are all examining major trends and observations.  I try to be responsible by also examing a large variety of research on the topic by both Thais and international researchers, individuals and major organizations who have been researching this issue for several years.  Any other questions?

No Vit, it doesn't make you or me more or less, only somewhat confirms my instinct about your perspective (young, educated, American, very young emigration, etc), which I commented on previously.  Which was not a judgement, only an observation and an instinct, both of which seem to be correct.  As I said, I empathize with you, whether you can believe it or not, because I understand your perspective very well.

By the way, you're in Boston.  Are you a student or an academic?  The last place I lived was in Boston before I came to Thailand.  Something tells me you're also an ivy league graduate or graduate-level professional.

Vit, perhaps you should.  But let me warn you:  one major similarity is that most sex workers universally have a history of sexual/social abuse.  Would you like to discuss this further regarding the Thai context?  If so, you'd better buckle your seatbelt - it's going to be a bumpy ride.  And yes, I can substantiate it, and have already done so on this forum.

And Vit, when I mention "girlhood" prostitutes, I'm talking about the trend that it is now become something of an unofficial job sector, and many girls have started considering prostitution and finding a foreign husband as something akin to a career path.  But unfortunately, this riles SOME foreign men here in Thailand and they start slinging personal insults; wonder why. 

EDIT:  One other thing, you seem to be making barbed insults that somehow I am "unknown" or "unpublished", which you don't really know.  Do you really make judgements this way or is it just a cheap shot?  Do you know the PBS documentarians of the program you watched?  What are their credentials?  Do you know any of the published, non-fiction authors that you read?  Have you read any published research on this topic?   Do you need a label or some sort of approved certification from somewhere else before you decide what is "authentic" or not?  If so, then you are possibly both easily impressed and easily misled, not to mention a poor debater.  No need to respond. 

Vit, I'd have "serious reservation about the validity of any report that placed many of the burdens of prostitution on the shoulder’s of the women" also.  I don't think we disagree on principle, just on the details, which are unfortunately, hard to take.  I'm genuinely sorry about that and have apologized although I have done nothing wrong except state what I have researched, corroborated, and thought alot about to be major factors and trends.  And what I have stated here is just a smattering of how I view the situation.  I belive that wage suppression, history, and the social/religous/cultural context is also fundamental.  And yes, it is also about the differentials between a rapidly urbanizing region and the disparities between urban and rural - but that's not all of it; and blaming the foreigner is unfortunately not even close to it.  And I don't state this because I have a desire to defend the white foreigner that comes here - far from it. 

You don't have to preach to me about battered women because trust me, I know all about it - from many different sources.  But I think at some point, when you examine an issue about oppression up close and personal, academically, intellectually, and emotionally, you still retain your core values, but it is no longer enough to hold these very precious viewpoints that all of oppression or development is solely about victimization;  the world, culture, people, and the reality - whether you choose to call it fact, conjecture, research or bullshit - is actually more complicated.  Don't blame or villify me simply because I choose to understand those spaces

C’mon kat, take a stand and don’t apologize unless you think it’s necessary or feel sincere about it. We’re all adults, I think. Your research may have some validity but I’m a skeptical guy that doesn’t accept anything I don’t personal believe or have proven knowledge of. What’s particular suspect here is that your research is personal and self directed, possibly resulting in self fulfilling conclusions. This is not to insult your intelligence but wouldn’t it be foolish of me to think otherwise about someone who I can only assume is not published, someone who uses other people’s work to reference their own, and someone who believes that their singular viewpoint of “understanding” could be concluded as fact?

I stand by my opinion that your conjectures about the root of prostitution in Thailand are as misleading as are your conjectures about the legitimacy of my thai heritage and connection to thai people.

BTW, I find it ironic that you say to thaibob, “You have no idea who I am, what I think or believe, other than what I have discussed on this forum.” Really kat, isn’t this what you’ve been implying about me from my posts when you previous stated, “I think I understand your position as a possibly young, educated, urban person of color from the states, with a largley progressive outlook and politically correct view of things.” And also, “Something tells me that your primary identity is not as an "upcountry Thai boy", but as an American educated boy with roots in upcountry.” Talking about calling a spade a spade!

In the end, i think it’s condescending to use personal and biased research to legitimize your viewpoint. I also think it’s presumptuous to make assessments about people’s backgrounds as a challenge to their p.o.v. In forming an opinion about thai culture, i live it from inside and outside. Fact is that you’ll only live it from the outside. This has nothing to do with ivy league or publications but all to do real perspective. Let’s agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Oh dear, this is getting worse and worse. I have looked at over 20 Businesses for sale here and rejected them all as the figs did not make any sense. but she has her heart set on this one, it s a case of "You always promise then take it away. She wants a bit of independance and make her own money to take care of her family instead of me doing it (although I will be shelling out the 450,000 plus.)

But I can see more potential in this than any other I have seen so far to be honest

I cant sleep I went to bed at 10.30, now I am here looking for more responses.

Thanks all for posting, not what I really want to read but I respect your opinions,which is why I posted.

Keep em coming, even though they are making me CRINGE

Every one is appreciated

TP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When you don't know what you're getting into, then it's like gambling. Hedge your bets, do your homework, and limit your risks. You seem to be doing the right thing so no worries mate. You've looked at other opportunities and think this one is the best. You've spoken to the sellers and feel somewhat confident that they are legit. Your partner (wife) is all for it. You're not putting all your marbles on the table and staggering your investments.

Last thing you need to do is have an "exit strategy". Like when you walk into a casino, expect to lose and have a limit knowing how much and how long you're willing to play. If you win, great! If you lose, no sweat, we all gamble sometimes.

Get some sleep and remember that you'll be ok if you limit your investment to an amount that can be written off as a total loss.

My wife's sister just sold both of her coffee shops just north of downtown bkk and it was all privately done w/o lawyers or any documents drawn up by a pro. I guess it depends upon who your dealing with and how much you can feel you trust them as to whether or need a legal pro. Of course some papers need to be drawn by you and definitely get signatures on the agreements.

As to the downpayment, it just depends upon what you think you can negotiate w/o making the other party feel as if your not seriously or as if they were being takened advanage of. Go as low as you need to but in the end you just have to feel comfortable with the decision.

Just to note, my wife sis built her 2 shops from the ground up and operated them for 2 years. She sold them on my advice and analysis of her financials. In other words, she was losing too much money and the only reason she stayed solvent was that she subsidized the business with her "day" job. So be sure you want in on this business and look at the financials of it before you buy. If they don't want to show you, i would walk away unless you see a hidden opportunity in the deal.

Nothing wrong with a hot topic (it’s 93 degrees F here), just as long as we are all having fun, not insulting each other’s intelligence, and maybe learn a thing or two without thinking we’ve figured it and everyone else is too stupid. Rattle me all you want, I’m always interested in understanding you’re views as long as they are somehow substantiated.

Most of the rambling below is an answer to kat's last post to me so don't read if you're already sick of the debate.

Something about research, it’s not fact. Far from it, especially when it comes to anthropological study of a current existence. Social research is not math or science where absolutes can be eventually quantified one way or another. It is a lot of bias and conjecture that can only be relatively correlated to the sample size and controls in your group. “Understanding and acknowledging is a matter of fact”, not so, it’s simply understanding and acknowledging, not fact.

I am a thai American, meaning I’m originally a thai citizen who has immigrated to the u.s. and become an American citizen. Is that somehow misleading? I arrived in the states when I was six and have been back to Thailand numerous times for stays as long as 1-6 months. Does this make me less qualified or you more qualified to comment about Thailand social norms?

Perhaps I should start my own personal research on American prostitutes and see whether or not they planned to become prostitutes from girlhood. Would this be more valid than a PBS report on the same topic? I think that PBS would be a more authentic source then little, unknown me.

Kat, I’d have serious reservation about the validity of any report that placed many of the burdens of prostitution on the shoulder’s of the women. Ask a battered wife here in the u.s. why she doesn’t leave her husband and you’ll often hear about how she thinks its her fault. You can conclude from this “report” that women chose to be battered but I think it’s not telling the truth. These women are so worn done by their abuse that it becomes a part of their reality. The reality is the abuser is to blame. How do you solve this problem… educate and support the women and help them find a better way.

No, I really don't think it's a joke.  I think it is a growing reality here in Thailand, and a product of screwed-up cultural/gender politics.  Yes, of course, gold diggers exist everywhere, just as something of everything exists everywhere.  But we are not talking about similarities but differences and major cultural phenemenoms, which no one can deny, exists to a larger degree here in Thailand.  Instead of shooting the messenger, why don't you instead ask why it is that way.

Agreed.  There are no ill feelings toward anyone, but that should include people who are not afraid to call a spade, a spade.

I'm right up there with you on all the points, except that I'm not an upcountry Thai boy.  I also live here and have conducted research on this issue for more than 2 years now.

However, I'm going to go out on a limb, Vit.  Something tells me that your primary identity is not as an "upcountry Thai boy", but as an American educated boy with roots in upcountry.  Perhaps you left very young.  Either way, I don't feel you are being completely honest either with us or yourself.

And I'm not saying this to insult.  I'm only saying this because I'd like to have an honest dialogue with you, and also because I recognize some of you in myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(By the way, couldn't edit my earlier post. I meant unfounded instead of unfactual; sorry).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kat, you used the “conducted research” card before in another post, please verify where this research is published or when and where it will be published, as well as who’s sponsoring your research. What exactly is the topic of your research and how exactly does it seemingly redefine or become the de facto standard for the assessment of thai culture? This is not to “shoot the messenger” but to validate that the message is authentic, especially when you start telling me that thai women plan to become prostitutes from “girlhood”. There’s tons of research out there but much of it is biased, distorted, and sometimes even meant for deception, just ask G. Bush.

Be careful out there on your limb because it’s very presumptuous of you to think you know someone from their postings. Where am I not being honest? Are you accusing me of lying to support my points? If so, that would be insulting. I have no reason to lie, I am what I am and I do what I say I do, whether you believe me or not is up to you. As my thai wife tells me, I may be Americanized but my heart is still thai.

I don’t think an adult woman wakes up one day and says to her family “today I’m heading into the Bangkok or Pattaya and becoming a prostitute because I love my family and want to support them by bringing in more wages”! The implication is that most prostitutes started in the trade while they were underage and vulnerable for exploitation.

No how it usually works is some girl will come home with a rich "falang" boyfriend, or lots of gold, and the others will see this and think"Why am I working all day for 150 bhat?". As for the poor country girl forced by her familly into going to "Bangkok or Pattaya" I think its getting less and less most of them are there because they want more....house, car, gold, phone. The money that usually goes back to mama is for looking after the kids. We dont get many girls going down from around here but the one's I've known about were not really very hard up, a few in their late 20's early 30's with childern already, husband buggerd of that sort of thing. I know one guy here who is a Police Capitan good money, does'nt drink, smoke ect his wifes sister was married to a Falang, living in "falangland" . His wife decided she wanted some of that and left him and his 2 kids to go and work in Phuket. Last I herd she's on her 3rd falang in UK now keeps trading up for richer modles. Vit I'm not having a go at you but you dont really have any idea what you are talking about.

One of the big problems is that in Thailand once a woman has been married or has children, she has virtually no chance of finding a decent husband if the first leaves or dies, there is no child support from goverment or any chance of getting money out of the father if he does'nt want to pay. Sex education is minimal in schools and most Thai men wont wear a condom. Which mean as traditional values break down you are getting more tenage pregnancies, after which the choices for the girl are severly limited. All this stuff does'nt make good TV though

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vit, I'm not having a go at you either, but I have to agree with Random Chances that you "dont really have any idea what you are talking about". I think I understand your position as a possibly young, educated, urban person of color from the states, with a largley progressive outlook and politically correct view of things. There is nothing at all wrong with that perspective, until you actually challenge it and everything you think is correct by coming to a developing country or Thailand to live. If you truly think, you will soon find that your old paradigms are just not honest anymore.

Quote Vit:

"I don’t think an adult woman wakes up one day and says to her family “today I’m heading into the Bangkok or Pattaya and becoming a prostitute because I love my family and want to support them by bringing in more wages”! The implication is that most prostitutes started in the trade while they were underage and vulnerable for exploitation.

Your right, farangs don’t turn girls into prostitutes but certainly men in general had something to do with it. I’m a man but I just can’t fathom it after all, woman prostitutes are someone’s daughter, mother, or sister. Would I want my family to be exploited in such a way, NO!"

Vit, now-a-days adult women don't wake up that way but plan it from girlhood. Furthermore, some adult women are left little choice after being left with children to feed and the burden of "making merit" as a good daughter. There is also the neverending, voracious issue of face and status.

And yes, I agree, both men AND women have something to do with it, and here in Thailand, it is very often the family, friends, or human smugglers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Surely you must be joking if you think the majority of thai prostitutes become prostitutes because they want to be rich and go to, as you put it, farangland? There’s a difference between gold diggers and prostitutes, although a prostitute may also be identified as a gold digger. The prostitutes you see working in the go-go bars are not usually there by choice, at least when they first started. The gold diggers that keep “trading up” are a different lot, many of whom can be found anywhere in the world.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with anyone wanting a better life for themselves and I don’t blame a thai women for wanting more, especially if they are poor. If an adult chooses to prostitute herself as the means for upward mobility, who am I to judge. I just don’t think that prostitution is the only viable, available or respectable avenue for success. As for the farangs that frequent the prostitutes and sometimes fall in love, I have no ill feelings towards them either. We all reap what we sow.

Do I have an idea what I’m talking about? Maybe or maybe not. I’m just a poor upcountry thai boy who’s made his way in the world, earning an honest wage. I visit Thailand every year to see family and friends, some poor and some rich. I know prostitutes and I’m even friend’s with children of former prostitutes married to Americans. I visit thai orphanages and contribute what I can to help them. This is what i choose to sow.