MikeENZ

Do people on here honestly think that my account's been hacked or something? What do I need to do - post an image of me holding a newspaper for proof of life or something?

If anyone needs a reminder of how Burmese are viewed in the Gulf: https://embed.theguardian.com/embed/video/global-development/video/2015/jul/20/thailand-fishing-industry-rohingya-trafficking-slavery-rape-video

I'd suggest it had a lot to do with dear leader's "No Thai could do this" utterances, nationalism, racism and loss of face. Do not underestimate how strong the dislike is for the Burmese migrants in Thailand (think American's in Arizona talking about mexican migrants), heck Thais are still wound up about the sacking of Ayuthaya in the 1600s. The headman may not have had a clue what had happened within the first 24 hours, and was just trying to make the whole problem go away. Same goes with the local plod who have far more important things to do than investigate crimes, such as extort migrant workers to buy some booze and visit the local brothel.

Creating a perfect storm for the cluster**** that this all became. Remember the timing of all this, it's just after a coup, people are being locked up for criticising the junta etc, tourism was down, and I've seen locals do and say some insanely dumb stuff when it's in low season and the paranoia sets in.

Perp is on first boat off the rock, not finding the person is unacceptable politically - so they are stuck with having to pin it on someone, anyone. It doesn't matter who - as long as it's someone and they aren't Thai. B1/B2 are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Lets face it, if the victims weren't Brits, there would have been no investigation - at the most it would have been an exchange of money and reparation to the family or some island justice.

@stephenterry - not a troll (despite my unfortunate profile pic which I just noticed), just someone who needs some sleep. I live in California now - wife is doing her masters at UCSD. It's 6:58am over here. I would not be writing any of this sort of stuff if I was still based in Thailand.

I was there in 2013 and returned for a short holiday in Jan 2014. Which of course was 9 months before this all happened (I was living in the states when it happened). My post is merely to provide some context to the life around the island. That said 99% of the time, it's pretty chilled out there and I enjoyed my time there, but I wasn't wearing rose coloured glasses.

With regards to the whole "Fire Dancer" thing, please don't read more into that than needed, It's merely a scenario, just like the hundreds of tin foil hat scenarios that have been posted all over the net. But, it's a more likely scenario than half of them. Please don't misinterpret this as I have some form of evidence suggesting it. I don't. I'm merely speaking from experience having lived there, and dealt with some of the characters on the island.

My point is more along the lines of, out of all the locals who tended to be pretty loose - those were the guys, bar owners had assets to protect, businesses, reputation and Face. The fire dancers were transient, with a good command of english, proper six pack beach bods, and liked to try and score foreign chicks. Some of them were definitely on drugs some of the time, and they definitely had weapons. BUT it's merely speculation. As for why blame the burmese rather than look at those avenues - two reasons:

1) Racism, local Thais are insanely racist when it comes to Burmese, and they are disposable.

2) Face/Politics - those in the govt said Thais couldn't have done this, it was just after the coup so was easier to blame a farang (i.e Shaun) - then that dind't work out so the easiest scapegoat is a Burmese worker. No papers, minimal lanugage skills, no rights. Easy.

Was it ever explained why early on these two, outside of police presence admitted their guilt to their embassy, human rights worker and lawyers from the embassy? I am sure given people's here wild theories their is lots of hypothesis but has their lawyer ever explained why he publicly stated they confessed to him?

If the RTP had ever bothered to turn up to face the the Human Rights lawyer to answer the questions and investigate the allegations of torture then perhaps we would have had a clearer picture of this. This same lawyer also saw the wound marks on them from the alleged torture.

Hey 4 cancelled meetings later and the beloved RTP still failed to show and now we're at trial! What do you have to say on there failure to show?

Odd to me that the Doctor who examined them on the day after they were arrested and they confessed to these crimes, he did not report such injuries. I mean a Doctor who's sole purpose was to go there and exam them with a Trained Eye. Although it was reported by the media that both of the accused confessed to him to.

But then suddenly, 7 days later, or was it 10 days later, when the Lawyers show up, one the accused lawyers sees these injuries, or as you said. I mean one of the very few who cannot be put on the stand to testify against the accused. What a coincidence!

Not odd at all. Doctor drafted in by RTP.

If it's the doctor I'm thinking of, he's nothing more than a rubber stamp to allow people to dive under SSI/PADI requirements, that and give people the white and green antibiotics for virtually anything. About as reliable as Zoidberg on Futurama.

So yeah - It’s been a while since I’ve posted on Thai Visa for a variety of things, most importantly due to Facebook Login not working properly and me forgetting my password/my username being my real name rather than my handle etc. Also was dealing with moving countries, getting my visa sorted and a family tragedy.

I’m the person who posted the original blog post “The Dark Side of Paradise” which has been often quoted with regards to info on the workings of Koh Tao etc (here: http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/)I lived in Sairee and Chalok, and used to work as a DJ 3-4 nights a week during the high season in both Sairee and Chalok. I didn’t think that when I posted it, that it would go so viral, getting shared on Facebook around 8,000 times. More recently I provided some of the information that was used in the Time article that came out last week: http://time.com/3955081/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-zaw-lin-wai-phyo-burma-myanmar/

Thought I’d post a few things to address stuff that I’ve noticed, factual inaccuracies - and also a bit of a smear campaign originating from you guessed it - staff at businesses associated a certain family directed at myself. The Farang owner/manager of one bar (while at the same time, the former owner is posting stuff critical of the case on his personal page) - which is situated on land controlled by the same family has been posting wonderful stories on the Koh Tao Community Forum (where I’m blocked - for obvious reasons) about me in an attempt to smear me etc. Which just goes to show how in the pocket of the locals certain foreign expats are. I would post more about him, but I’m guessing the post would get taken down due to Thailand’s computer crimes act and defamation laws.

These ridiculous claims claims include:

* That I got “busted” stealing from donation boxes (Which is a completely insane claim)

* That I didn’t get a job as a DJ (I had a DJ residency at Bar Next 2 on Koh Tao, left for one at the Beach Village/Ku Club in Koh Phangan)

The real reasons that I left the Islands were due to trusting the wrong people and getting involved with a business where I loaned cash to an untrustworthy Farang (things went really down hill when he pulled a homemade 12 gauge pistol out to settle a business dispute) on Phangan, and getting screwed around with regards to getting my work permit sorted. Got shaken down by Samui immigration and local mafia started moving in on the business - ended up meeting my American (now wife) up in Bangkok while laying low, then the coup happened, and she was involved in research at Thammasat - we ended up leaving due to her professors getting rounded up for improving the countries happiness etc. That and she was researching human trafficking and migration, along with Thai politics, which considering the circumstances with Phuketwan - Thailand isn’t the safest place to be doing so.

Anyway - now that that is out of the way some general thoughts (I won’t name any names - because that will result in the post being taken down instantly due to forum rules):

Firstly - the Police that were there at the time were corrupt as sin. I know this, because I’ve been there when bribes were being paid (to the police officers who were involved in the case), I’ve seen them at parties, I’ve served them beer, and I’ve hung out with them (especially when certain VIPs who cannot be discussed due to forum rules or S112 were down on the Island diving - though these included off island police from Bangkok). (Then again, I’ve also been present on Phangan when the local coppers dropped off a bunch of unregistered firearms to my neighbour who was a Biker from Songkla).

There are local Thais who keep watch at Mae Haad for officials from off the island. As soon as they arrive a message goes out on the Koh Tao Rescue radio that most bar owners and business owners have access to. This stops outsiders from interfering with the workings of the island and allows western workers to leave the premises before being shaken down by immigration. I’ve also witnessed Samui immigration give “heads up texts” to business owners with significant western staff before hitting the island in return for cash kickbacks (on both Tao and Phangan).

The fact is - if you live long term in any of the island beach areas, and aren’t a 40+ year old sexpat, you’ll have witnessed the many dodgy dealings that go on in Thailand. Anyone who says otherwise is either a mormon missionary, or lying.

I’ve been present when Thai bar owners have done coke off the toilets and then told me how they could get me killed/arrested/protected when they were on a paranoid cocaine high. These same bar owners were in a running feud with with other bar owners on the beach, and were threatening to put drugs in peoples motorbikes to get them arrested. This is the same bar that when under previous owners had a well known local shot dead on the dance floor before closing down and being renamed. The shooter was caught on CCTV, and many locals have seen the footage. Of course being Thai on Thai - most don’t know about this, but the shooter still hangs around Freedom beach a lot.

I know of Farangs who were importing LSD onto the island in paperback novels and selling it to tourists. I know of other farangs who have been busted multiple times with coke, and are basically under the complete control of both the police and - you guessed it, a certain important family with close connections to said police officers.

I know that Cannabis and Mushrooms are sold openly at High Bar in Chalok Baan Kao, the reggae place in Mae Haad and Mol’s beach bar in Ao Hin Wong. Previous Farangs who were involved in the drug trade out of a certain resort now operate a bar that’s out of the way, but still often has police checkpoints outside it on the regular for pee tests. All of this is with local police knowledge, involvement and consent.

I’ve been present when Thai fire dancers from different bars have gotten into an argument, and both hand guns and knives have been pulled out. I’m assuming this was probably over a girl. Note that these fire dancers don’t tend to be related to a family by blood, but are usually Thais from other areas, who are VERY territorial regarding their patch (where they get tips).

I’ve seen Thai staff linked to families steal money from the till of bars. Then attempts to stitch up Farang staff (who were obviously working without a permit) because it would avoid a loss of face, the Thais were in fact working for the landlords of said bar… it’s completely insane.

I’ve got a friend who was DJing on the island who had 5 Thai males pull handguns on him when his party was more successful than another party down the road. You can guess which family was involved in this. He since moved away from the rock.

I’ve seen local Burmese get really touchy feely with people after a few drinks, especially one that was former military. It got to a point when I was there that many burmese were banned from drinking at bars.

Then of course there is the German who runs the motorbike rental place in Mae Haad, who has a long reputation of ripping off tourists, and even pulling a gun on them in order to extort money out of them. All of which is done with the consent on the local police and families.

A lot of what’s been posted by the Arm Chair detectives is merely heresay and clutching at straws, but these are things that have happened and continue to happen on the rock. The locals have loose lips when they get on the booze or drugs down there. Also there are a lot of people who have lived on the island for some time who have left in disgust, and are speaking more openly about what goes on. Of course none of this answers “who done it” , just the mentality of the place, and the sort of behaviour which is considered to be acceptable down there.

I still have my doubts as to whether the families were actually involved in the crime. I seriously doubt it, they might be corrupt and powerful, but they aren’t stupid - Foreign tourists are the goose that lays the golden eggs.

If I had to put my money on it though, based on personal experiences, I’d pick one of the many beach boy fire dancers that likes to party hard - as most of them are packing weapons, feel they are entitled to western women, and aren’t scared to fight. And they’d be off the island on the next boat - many of them are drifters, and spend time on Tao, Phangan, Krabi, Phuket etc… wherever the next tip bucket of tourist money and skipping ropes on fire is. These were also the Thais that tended to mess around with Yaba.

One of my female friends who lived on the island nearly got into a particularly dangerous situation involving one of them and lots of booze when I was there.

With regards to posters on here with island connections, I’m guessing that one is connected to a certain park that is near Mae Had, while the French connections are probably based in Chalok. Some western expats have been on the Island on and off for close to 20 years.

It still however is pointless speculation.

Even though the local DJs have posted some terrible stuff on Facebook, they are more “long term” and tend to have expat or local girlfriends and don’t want to mess up their own lifestyle. As for the pictures of guns and stuff on their personal Facebook pages - you’d find the same things on mine as well, so it’s hardly evidence of anything. They are all just acting tough, trying to look gangster etc, typical posturing etc.

I do however believe that the families did cover it up, and so do many locals or former locals. Just like previous suspicious deaths and murders have been covered up. They were just too ignorant to realise how something like this would be perceived by the western media in the era of social media.

The fact is, we will never know who did it - I doubt it was a local family, I really doubt old Nomsod had anything to do with it either - theres no real reason for it, I doubt even more that it was the two burmese kids. My guess is that the person who did it was Thai, not connected closely with local families and definitely not Hiso, but enough that he’d cause them to lose face, got the hell out of dodge the next morning and the locals covered it up. They had orders from high to solve the case quickly so that Sean first made a good patsy, but that didn’t work so Burmese were blamed. The failures of the case are more to do with Thainess, Face and that the only thing the local coppers are actually experienced at is taking bribes than anything else - remember, the police officers PAY to be there.

I think regardless of the evidence that the Burmese will be found guilty, but probably jailed rather than face the death penalty. And whoever did it is probably working on some beach, somewhere else in Thailand for tips.

I haven't read Mapping Siam - looks interesting

I agree that history of Thailand is essential reading for anyone intending to stay here any length of time, and that the "official" interpretations of Thai history are risible......but which "History of Thailand" are you suggesting you don't cite the authors or ISBN?

the Baker/Phongpaichit is a great book, but the Wyatt in my opinion doesn't really even qualify as a proper history book.

Sorry - I meant Baker's book.

I really should have included amazon links.

The Thais will hate me for saying this, but heck .. Even the territory that we now know as Bangkok used to be Khmer territory at some stage, back centuries ago.

Note that they have not been armed with "Service Handguns" - they have been armed with 2700 Heckler & Koch HK33 5.56mm Army issue assault rifles. I'm all for the right to bear arms and defend oneself. But this isn't exactly the right to bear arms, this is the military arming a quazi fascist militia with a history of human rights abuses in one of the most mafia dominated parts of Thailand.

One only has to read the history of the Red Guar and Village Scouts in the 1970s to see how this will end.

It was set up by the Internal Security Operations Command (ISOC) of the Thai military to counter the country's students movement after the democratic revolution of October 1973.^[2] Major-General Sudsai Hasadin has been reported being its main organizer.^[1] From mid-1974 on, the paramilitary organization's units were publicly armed with firearms and grenades. Afterwards, they enjoyed practical immunity to criminal prosecution, or even warnings from police or army staff. The Red Gaurs violently attacked demonstrators at the protests against individual articles of the 1974 constitution, against U.S. military bases in Thailand, and at the protests against the return of deposed military dictators Thanom Kittikachorn and Praphas Charusathien.^[2]

The Village Scouts were also deployed to counter the protests of the pro-democracy and students movement. They were called via radio to occupy strategic points in all major towns during the protests against US bases in the country and against the return of ousted military dictators Thanom Kittikachorn and Praphas Charusathien. The probably best-known, and most impactful, mission of the Village Scouts was during the anti-leftist rally that led to the Thammasat University massacre on 6 October 1976,^[3] in which at least 46 people were killed and the subsequent coup d'état and return to military rule.

By more and more appealing to urban, right-wing conservatives, the organization gradually moved away from its poor, rural base.^[2] The movement fizzled out during the 1980s.

Does anyone actually believe for a second that the Thai's even have their hand on the Ebola virus to experiment on, and that they are experimenting on it in the very same hospital that the people who we cannot legally discuss often receive treatment, let alone have developed a cure.

I simply cannot believe that the Thais would keep one of the most feared viruses in the world, even for experimentation and study, in the same building as two of the most sacred people in their culture.

Former Crown Prince Paras Shah (on the left) following his arrest for possession of methamphetamine and marijuana on Wednesday.

http://nongkhainewsonline.blogspot.com/2014/10/blog-post_17.html

Damn he looks like he's been on the pipe a bit. Check out this photo compared to older photos on Google. Either he's been on massive weight loss programme.. or its the meth.

Wow, its like he is channeling the ghost of Phibun from beyond the grave. Back when Pad Thai was introduced to stop xenophobic and nationalist Thais from eating noodles from the Chinamen.. (even though it was a knock off of Thai noodles and designed to have people eating less rice, but you get the picture)

The daily grind of bribe taking and extortion does take its toll on your mental health.

The rabid PDRC Fans hate her, as do the supporters of fascism, which is good enough for me to support her. She wasn't scared of butting heads with the locals over sensitive issues, and faced some fairly severe threats from some of the more bat**** crazy ones in the land of smiles who couldn't understand that the official policy of the US was to support democracy rather than military dictatorship.

Hopefully she is replaced with someone else who isn't afraid to criticise, as opposed to the wet blanket that the UK embassy appears to have. I'm sure that if it was a US citizen that was killed in Koh Tao that she would be moving mountains to ensure something was done about it.

Does that mean they'll be tearing all the beach resorts down in the Gulf of Thailand?

Its still ridiculous that you need a work permit (along with thai staff and registered capital) just to run a booth at a trade show or conference.

Koh Tao Murders: Accused recant confessions, tell embassy lawyer they were tortured

Two migrant workers from Myanmar recanted their confessions today, telling a lawyer from the Burmese embassy they did not kill David Miller and Hannah Witheridge last month on Koh Tao.

Attorney Aung Myo Thant from the Burmese Embassy made his comments after meeting with the two men, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, who Thai police said had confessed to the crime.

In Burmese media reports, the lawyer said the two men told him they only confessed because they were forced to under torture.

"They told me that they were on the beach that night drinking and singing songs,” he said. “They said they didn't do it, that the Thai police (along with their Burmese-Thai translator) beat them until they confessed to something they didn't do. They're pleading with the Burmese government to look into the case and find out the truth. They were a really pitiful sight. Their bodies had all sorts of bruises. I have already reported all that I have seen today to my government."

Aung Myo Thant characterized it as a “set up” that wasn’t based on evidence.

He added that he was denied access to a third suspect originally detained, Maung Maung, because police said he is “a crucial witness” they do not want interference with.

Meanwhile Thai police authorities today said they’d met with Myanmar representatives who were “satisfied” with the results of their investigation.

UPDATED: Story was updated to reflect full names of suspects as reported by Burmese media.

Source: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

The arrested burmese guy is even wearing a Tshirt with the words ACTWO plastered across the front. I'm sure that the owners of AC bar will be pleased about that.