BabaYaga

Ok, Sbaker, you've got me. You saw past my attempt and the attempts of my sisters to mask our soul searing hatred of men with courtesy and respect. How could you have known, given the patience we have shown you, that truly we are bent on world castration?

How do you know about our agenda? Who told you about the secret meetings of the Sisters of the Apocolypse, where we gather to plot against mankind? Do you know too, about the scoring system, whereby we gain points for every man we lure with our feminine charms only to reject? And to think I was so proud of my rank as Flying C*nt MegaBtch Class III! How did you know that we secretly crave the attentions of men who are emotionally stunted and twice our age? We doll ourselves up only in the hope that men we find unacceptable for glaringly apparent physical and developmental reasons approach us, becasue we live only to crush your souls. That, and the frequent flyer miles we earn.

I repent! From now on, I will smile vacuously each and every time a man approaches me, no matter how insulting, how threatening or innaproriate his behavior! Please, please, take my phone number! Please, go out with me! Let me satisfy you sexually! Let me have your babies! A dozen babies! And - and - I don't need shoes, a career, self-respect, or a life outside of my home! I know now that my purpose in life is to serve you!

Or not.

"Personally ladies, I would urge you to encourage this person to continue in the same vein, therefore making your argument and proving your point for you."

That's pretty much what I was thinking. Someone pointed out earlier that the question at hand was not why there was hostility towards western women, but whether or not the hostility exists, and to what degree. Yes, it exists, for flimsy and laughable reasons, and apparently - judging by the resonses here - only among a small percentage of people.

A couple things don't make sense to me, and I wonder if anyone would like to clarify them:

What's wrong with accepting people as individuals, regardless of race and gender? Whether or not it's feasible at the present moment, isn't it still a good idea? Wouldn't we all be happier if everyone tried to treat each other as equals? What is the point of shouting down people who want to do away with stereotypes?

Call me a bleeding heart idealist, but it seems to me that ending prejudice by doing our own part to treat everyone well is a good idea. And I get the feeling most of you lovely people agree with me on this point.

The other point that resurfaces again and again is this idea that women not -needing- a man or men not -needing- a woman is offensive. I always believed that mature, independent people, men and women, are self-reliant, and that this was something to strive for. What is so important about -needing- someone? Is this an endorsement of co-dependency? Can anyone clarify this?

Knock knock

Who's There?

Little Boy Blue.

Little Boy Blue Who?

Michael Jackson

(This one is also interchangable with 'Catholic Priest')

I haven't read it either, but I'd like to thank you for bringing it up - novels are my favorite sneaky way to absorb information - I'll add Patpong Sisters to my list. Do you have any other suggestions?

I often worry that I will never marry or have children. I have a vision of myself as a middle aged woman, having lived a year or two in about a dozen countries, without anything to tie me everywhere. Sometimes that terrifies me, and sometimes that seems just right. Good thing I like cats.

I'm curious about the thread starter's concerns. Was there something that prompted this question?

I hope I can convince you to come have another night out after I arrive! I don't get to Thailand till the 7th of April. And I don't think I'll be doing much partying out on my own!

Hope you all have a great time!

Well, if anyone wanted to be assured that there were more good 'normal' people among the ex-pats in Bkk than 'moronic pigs', I'm sure this forum wouldn't dissapoint. I can't tell you how happy I am that the vast majority of posts on this subject are positive.

We touched on the subject of chivalry, which reminded me of what I say to the few militant feminists I meet:

It's true that women are expected to do certain things and behave in certain ways, but being a women comes in handy once in a while, too. Men will almost always pump the gas, shovel the sidewalk, take out the garbage and hook up the tv to the vcr, to name a few. There are other little things, and that's of course in addition to lifting heavy things and occasionally opening doors. I can do these things, I do them all the time. But they're things that most men I know don't mind doing for me without me having to ask.

Once in a while it's an advantage having the option of being silent and inconspicuous. Once in a while it's an advantage that no one expects a woman to fight, that very few people would hit a woman in public and that every man present would help her in such a situation. And speaking for myself, I've had situations when I've been broke, or lost, or hungry, on the streets or in trouble, and being a skinny little blonde girl has come in very handy. I NEVER use these little advantages unless i have to, but I know they're there, and I'm grateful for them. I keep an eye out for things like this to assure myself that things aren't as bad as they seem sometimes.

And things are bad sometimes, I don't think anyone's denying that. But I for one, am not trying to point the finger at anyone in particular. Kat, your letter was just perfect, thank you so so much. I understand what you mean about traditional folks having a problem with women being indignant - a lot of the time when I point out flagrantly chauvenistic things, I'm met with outright hostility and anger, and it's often not so much in opposition to what I'm saying than the fact that I would dare to say it. It's ironic that the basic point I usually end up rallying againt is that women who speak their mind are hostile towards men.

In that spirit, here's a joke for you (hope you like it):

Q: how many angry feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

A: (shouted indignantly) THAT'S NOT FUNNY!

Wow, what an interesting dicussion this has become! I hope no one is inordinately annoyed, it wasn't my intention. Thanks everyone for staying so respectful!

While we're on the subject: I've noticed too that the term feminist has been subverted, but I have to say that most of the people who use it to defame others are not ultra-feminazis (athough there's no denying that these certainly do exist!), but more often men who are threatened by 'feminism'. And the argument I've heard against feminism most often runs along the lines aaaaaa so nicely put it, that there is a danger of feminists becoming too masculine and ultimately mistreating men in the exact way that women have been mistreated.

i understand that aaaaa did not intend to imply that because of this concern, we should abandon all our efforts to provide equal opportunities and respect to both genders, but I have heard just such anti-feminist arguments in the past. It just never made sense to me that we should consciously oppress one half of our population out of fear that one day, years down the line, they might subject the other half to the same sort of oppression.

I also assume that aaaaa did not mean to imply that women will never be independent simply because they need sperm to procreate, because i'm sure he realizes that many women chose to remain childless, just as many men chose to have children - and have no choice but to rely on women for that.

But I do disagree that women should only further the cause of their own equality through men. The basic point of feminism is that women are capable of doing most anything themselves (except peeing standing up! ), and that includes speaking for ourselves. But thank you aaaaa, for bringing up those points, I hope I understood you! I wasn't offended, and I hope you also understand what I'm trying to say!

*whew* Incidentally, I don't intend to date anyone in Thailand (if I can help myself!) I recently spent a year in Mozambique, and I didn't date anyone there either, for many of the same reasons I've been warned about here. But I know there are wonderful people everywhere, and certainly on this forum!

Shucks, sugar. I didn't mean you.

But that brings up another point - someone said that Thailand was - how did they put it - a paying shagfest? This conversation was sidetracked at sveral points into a discussion about dating and relationships. (For the record, I think it's perfectly fine to date anyone you please for any reason you like. It's your life, isn't it?)

At the risk of being controversial again:

Do farang women often date Thai men?

Will I be misinterpreted if I invite people for a friendly cup of coffee?

Well for goodness sakes, Chonabot, I only posted this yesterday. Do you check your threads every hour? Or is there something else that inspired you to insult me?

Thanks so much for all your replies, they're very encouraging, and full of great advice. I will definitely concentrate on the good things in Thailand. I apologize if I gave the imporession that I thought that all ex-pat men were a**holes and moronic pigs, only that some of them appear to be. And some of them appear to be because I've found a huge amount of chauvinistic posts (again - on other sites - and sorry for the URL!), and not a lot of positive posts concerning women (but some)! Certainly if I thought that all ex-pats were pigs, I wouldn't ask about the 'ratio', now would I?

Seems like I've touched a nerve with some people - Even when I specifically say that I'm not trying to go off on a femenist rant, but only trying to get some objective opinions, the exact opposite is what registers. And no, I chose the name BabaYaga because I love the old Russian witch, not because I'm struggling with a lack of self esteem. I like the idea of travelling in a mortar and pestle, living in a house on chicken legs, and occasionally eating people. (Kidding!) But thank you for asking.

Well, I hope I haven't stirred up any bad blood. I'll admit I'm a bit of a devil's advocate, but in a good natured kind of way. I don't take myself too seriously, and if you don't either, we'll get along just fine.

Perhaps when I get to BKK, we can get together for a cup of coffee?

I've noticed a common trend on some sites about Thailand, and that is that there seems to be an awful lot of open hostility towards western women. Am I imagining things, or are there a lot of ex-pats in BKK with serious issues about the fairer sex?

Don't get me wrong, I haven't seen anything offensive here. But another site I visited was overrun by chauvenistic <deleted> who did almost nothing but gloat about the 'subservient' women they were dating, and how much they hated western women - essentially for not being mindless f*ckdolls, which is what these guys thought women should be, apparently.

I don't want you to think I'm off on a huge femenist rant here, I'm just wondering what I'm in for. I'm moving to Thailand next month, what kind of people should i expect? What is the ratio of moronic pigs to normal people among the ex-pats in BKK? What kind of problems have you experienced?

Any information would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

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