Odysseus221

In regards to the military issue here, if there is one: This was an absolute necessity, since the PM could not, under law, resolve the rice issue. The country would have collapsed. Besides, coups are normal here and alright with me. The real reason is that Russia is in recession and it gets harder for them to stay here; Europe is in recession or close. I don't see a bright future for the world economy with so many political problems. I hope that the Chinese government lightens up, it would be a dark signal if they crushed Hong Kong, and I think, an economic calamity.

I am thinking of living for a while in a camp in China for health reasons. They advise bringng a cold weather sleeping back and "fat" for hands and feet--whatever that is...does anyone know where to buy this and long underwear in Thailand, preferably bangkok? +-

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Personally I have invested in mutual funds based in bhat, as I intend to stay here in my old age. I agree with the man who wrote the question, this is a huge challenge. For those not intending to invest here in mutual funds--and that might be crazy if you want to stay--then I would consider FX trade long term; anotherwords, usd/bhat short position for the amount you wish to cover could equalize long term downtrend. At this point it is quesitonable whether there would be appreciation from the long side, but it is possible, I would plan this VERY VERY CAREFULLY WITH BANKERS AND THEN INVESTMENT COUNSELERS so you know what you are getting into.

Yes, and how do you pay to live and eat on 7 dollars a day anyway? If you buy a cup of coffee and food three times you spend half your pay on that, and possibly another dollar on transportation. The idea that you find this acceptable proves you are happy to ignore such realities.

Seeing no relationship between tourism with a town composed almost entirely of foreigners, and denigrating the call for the creation of fair and reasonable working conditions for everyone in such a place, calling it unrelated, strikes me as a creepy remark. Working people 12 hours a day is unreasonable in tourist areas, where the goods they sell are comparable to the prices in the West. What should give here are other costs, if need be, like the price of land or stalls or other business fixed costs. Won't make the landlords happy, but have it your way--we're in a global environment.

There is no relationship between global competition and working 85 hours a week to sell items to foreigners, the price differential is minimal by the month--these are two shift jobs at a pay of 200 dollars doesn't strike me as unreasonable. The issue is not global competition or economic, but political and social. Fair trade coffee proves this concept.

Maybe the profits would be slightly less for human rights, yes, they always are. But the end result of profit reduction would be commercial land price reduction to offset higher costs of doing business. Profit margins have a certain threshhold you see, after which, there is no point in being in business. That's my theory.

Regardless, the worker deserves better than this, at least in foreign dominated area where so many societies meet and prices for everything are far greater than in the rest of Thailand, creating an impossible situation for both the worker as consumers and the worker as a human being. They don't know the difference between an 8 hour day and a 12 hour day in terms of human rights. We do.

It saddens me to say that my girl friend went to find a job today. She found one in the Pattaya Mall, working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 6,000 bhat.

While I know her experience level is hardly worth mentioning, working people these hours for seven days a week is about as close to slavery as it could be. Thailand, and in particular, areas populated by foreigners, should legislate a five day work week for 8 hours a day. The pay is difficult enough to

think about, but they should be paid by the hour and get time and a half (overtime) after 8 hours. It's only fair that foreigners support this suggestion. The prices they charge for every item don't differ that much from the West anyway.

I would agree that much of the behavior of people who profess a belief is contradictory, but so is society in general; perhaps this is human nature. It seems many people are interested in wealth. The interesting thing that I have experienced is that, every morning as I drive around, I see people burning incense, putting flowers on shrines, and meditating briefly. It is a reflection of an inner spirituality that I appreciate and see. Thailand still offers the opportunity to go to places that have few Western influences and see how people lived and live in a society with very little material wealth, but with families, friends, food and traditions which reflect the environment and traditions dating back hundreds of years. This is a wealth worth preserving and a way of life which once gone, cannot be reclaimed. Traditions, be they from Western societies or Eastern places, are worth preserving.

As Asia becomes materialistic, the traditions of Buddhism, built on an agricultural society, are challenged with a materialism unlike past history, and outwardly at least, the ability to maintain "the middle way" becomes muddled in a cash culture, while its ability to respond create institutions which safeguard its values wanes.

As I look out, upon world history particularly in Asia, I must comment that my realizations in a spiritual context, speak to a reality beyond temporal life, and suggest a reality totally encompassed by the Buddhist beliefs. Unfortunately, as time wears on, Buddhism I think finds itself overwhelmed by much richer societies, which suggest a better life characterized by materialism. There can be no denial that materialism does create a prosperity and wealth for societies that have little experience with wealth in a Western sense; however, I believe that as times move on, wealth creation will be shown to be a wealth of inner sanctity, not outer demonstrations. To this end, I believe that the Eastern traditions, especially Buddhism, must find a social and political platform which can dissect the visions of Western belief systems, in their philosophical sense, as well as economically, so as to preserve their own beliefs, which are sacred and endearing, and offer the world, at it's most profoundly difficult moments, the quietude and alternative perspective that create a total perspective. In this framework, Buddhism and South East Asia offer the world a great hope which should not be discounted due to materialism from the West.

Sawadeekrup

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Just had my aircons done. Charged me 400 baht each....not bad...but then he wanted to charge me 500 baht to top one of them up with 25% of liquid.....Another attempt to con me for liquid that costs 100 baht in home pro or other good outlets.

Then he explained that he only worked for the company and that was their normal charge for the liquid. But if I wanted him to call out and do it privately, there would be a considerable discount.

If you want his details , PM me and let me know and I will pas them on.

Regards

Why not let the guy make a living???

Russians, Romanians (Gypsies), Moldavians (Gypsies), Ukrainians, Iranians (Persians), Nigerians, Chinese from PRC, Chinese from Taiwan, Colombians - all criminals are concentrated in Pattaya. This is their favourite place on Earth. A real paradise for them.

Please tell me where these people are! I've been there for two years and I haven't found any criminals, although I hear of Nigerians in BKK making trouble--should be deported. But how do you know who is a criminal? Do they wear tags or something? In America they would be called businessmen in general.

I am curious to know the source of the money? Rogue regimes? Narcotics? Electronic crime scams? Arms sales? Don't leave me hanging.......

Seems suspicious. In America we never assume guilt, we use the word allege and we always assume they are legitimate Italians who find friends

for political contributions.

I believe that China is a threat--not it's people, but it's governmental policy of aggressive policy both economic and military. OK to be biggest country and so forth. Not OK to have an economic system which cannot play fair--and never will. Their state run businesses cannot loose. Sooner or later, they will come into direct conflict with the United States. What could possibly be the outcome for Westerners here in Thailand? What will the government do to appease China? Bridge Over River Kawai will then need another paint job.

I want to tell you all the truth about feminism. It is really lesbianism. Yes, this was an issue about rights, but eventually women wanted to be men. Personally I don't care much, I get along with women of all types and I especially like lesbians as long as they are willing to have sex (with me). But the reality in America is this: women are trying to break a mold which took thousands of years to form. They want their sexuality to be theirs. I agree with that. In America, men control sexuality. They control how women can act. Women are not free with their sexuality, it is controlled by law.

In Thailand, women are free with their sexuality to the extent that they want or need it to be. They can sell it or they can not sell it. It is freedom. Freedom has been perverted in the US into thinking that freedom has nothing to do with economics. IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH ECONOMICS. Freedom was the freedom to make a living as you please. Prior to that people were indentured servants, serfs, slaves and whatever. The concept has been extended to accomodate black "leaders" who insist freedom is shoving your way into an organization, demanding equality in the workplace for minorities, demanding subsidies, demanding food, demanding education, demanding a place in a society which they contribute little to in the way of economic growth. This has resulted in continual reinterpretation of historical government documents that never needed reinterpreting.

Society needs parameters and as you see, we have exceeded them across the board. "Nothing exceeds like excess" in the words of the mistress in "Scarface".

At first blush, this might sound very RACIST. But in fact, it is an affirmation of black folks. They were and are and always have been capable people who could create an economy without subsidies. Leftism created deficits and communist thinking always subverts freedom. If they were not capable, Marcus Garvey would not have owned 1000 stores in the early 1900's. He had is right. Those who came later were too truculent to think clearly. It was communist rhetoric. Lucky for them the government and people and times became more liberal with wealth creation, enough to subsidize this folly. True, things are better today, but there is no proof that they wouldn't have been anyway.

Freedom is economic freedom not government subsidies. You are who you and your family make yourself into. Speaking of which, government subsidies completely subverted the family. Africans have a tendency to be immoral from a Christian perspective anyway, as do many others. It is Christianity in the West which created morality and morality created or was a foundation for creating wealth.

Feminism to the extent that it destroys a family destroys us all.

Feminism didn't beat men into submission, but it did drive many of them away to rediscover a more traditional balance of the sexes in other countries like Thailand.

After a lifetime of being attracted to ballsy women, the last of whom refused resolutely to say that she loved me over a seven year close relationship as that might show weakness (how about that for role reversal), I find Thai women a breath of fresh air - for all their weaknesses.

With Macao and Singapore going the way they are going, tourism is down here. It is only a matter of time before gambling comes to Pattaya. The tourists are all going to Singapore.

My father being a farmer in NH, USA and a Harvard educated man, I had a glimpse of his mentality which is a self sufficient mind-set highlighting frugality and responsibility. Traveling upcountry in Thailand and witnessing subsistence farming, it isn't too much different. Most have homes, however humble, food and so forth which is better than many many other countries and on par with rural standards in the US. Let's be reasonable here. People may need some government aid but definitely not a welfare state. Big mistake will create catastrophe in 50 years for sure. Demands never cease and it is a political vehicle for radicalism.

The minute you give incentives NOT to work, the system fails. Look at the West. Crimes go up, underage social issue arise, the gap widens and the esteem of those with no work becomes swept under the carpet. Thai's have reasonably good work ethic. They will buy between 4 of them even the smallest goods like fruits and sell them at 400% profit even if on 20 Baht outlay and make 100 Baht. If they got a hand out they would not need to work. I am not saying no social reform but put it in medical or some housing assistance - it does not have to be fancy!

In my own country 16 year-olds would walk into Social Security and say their parents did not understand them. They were given rental allowance, unemployment benefits, and then 4 of them would pool their rent money - go get a waterfront or beach house and pick up glasses in the pubs Saturdays and Sundays and still take home the same money weekly as a 40 hour worker with only having to work 2 days! Within 6 months they were on their back, doing drugs and inevitably, the occasional death.

Yes social security works great (sic - no pun intended). I am here in Thailand, no benefits, no superannuation, no free medical and am still better off than being in my own country. Thailand don't follow the stupidity of the West. Do your own thing.

So.. ..Asiawhatcher what are you going to live from when you retire at 62..

Savings…..Well if you not are born with a silver spoon in your mouth you really need to be good at it because to receive anything near what your home country pay in average to their retired will from you are 62 to 85 set your savings back with approximately 35 million Baht not included an annually pensions increase on 3.5 - 5%

What if one of your child’s are diagnosed with MS in his teens. Good looking young man, he is getting through high school and further higher education but his symptoms increase year after year, but with expensive medication, good help from parents and his own extreme will he get a job and he even climb the ladder up to manage that company all this in the light of having great difficulties with his illness which some days are so bad that he hardly can control his own body.

When he is 26 he don’t manage a full time job anymore but he keep going part-time and receive ½ social security. Before he is 30 he is not able to do regularly work, but take on different maintenance works the days he is able to work which is a plus on his meagre social security which is low due to his few years contributing to the pensions scheme.

Following your selfish theories a young man as above have no right to a life equal to others or do you mean a Thai in the same situation (I believe its thousands) should depend on the 30 Baht scheme or be born into a wealthy family?

The unmistakable image showing two Thais but the contrast couldn't be more pronounced. There is obviously a racial connotation to these demonstrations, and the government must bridge this important gap through concrete efforts when necessary.

But more that that, the red shirts need to see the world reality of "democratic" countries. They need to see where Thailand is in the context democracy, from a professorial point of view; they need education on comparative democracy.

At that point they will agree, Thailand is good and getting better. If their voices are heard, they should be satisfied with proposed changes. And how can their voices not be heard?

There are many "democratic" societies that they would agree are not free at all.

The big question is why is this trade so surprising to the Swedish police, after all this kind of thing isn't new in any way shape or form, it has been happening since the days of Captain Cook. University girls all over the world sell themselves to pay their fees and living costs, Thailand and Sweden included. Youth is what they are selling, not just sex.

The biggest problem that I see here is that the organizers of this kind of thing are the ones making the money, and because it is an illegal market, there is no way of the government being able to regulate it, or worse still, tax it.

I remember one newspaper story in an Australian news paper all about the Asian sex trade in Australia, and stating how much the newspaper disapproved of the trade. BUT if you turned to the classifieds, there in the escort section were all the adds for "Just arrived, 5ft Thai with big boobs, short time only, phone............". It seems that for this paper it was alright to take the money for the add, so long as no one called the number.

This so called problem will always be there, in every country that has money, and is able to get women from poor countries inside their borders. The best thing that a country can do is to properly regulate and organise the sex trade so that it is fairer for the girls that work in it.

Well done chmiroau for talking some sense. All too often all we get to hear are from prudes who are trying to impose their own abysmal moral values on everyone else. I get sick and tired of people moaning about how bad the sex trade is, when what we should all be doing is working towards improving the working conditions and safety for the girls (and young men) who work in it. Kidnapping and involuntary entry into the sex industry should be stamped on of course but for those who are willing participants, they need protection to work safely, in peace, and get properly rewarded, not denigrated as social outcasts or worse.

I'm concerned you think kidnapping and involuntary entry into the sex industry should be stamped out...Were you forced to go to school?

Should that be stamped out? Are you forced to pay taxes? Are you forced to turn the music down? Are you forced to go to work in the morning?

Are you forced to earn a living? This is part of social evolution and the best way to join the party is to be kidnapped and forced into sexual sevitude for a while in a country like Sweden.

The missing part of the article is the section naming names. The Thai women would not be able to enter into Sweden without Swedish nationals assisting and facilitating the process. The police have some of the names. True, one is innocent until proven guilty and one does have the right to privacy. However, nothing precludes an anonymous tip and a diligent reporter doing the leg work. Winter will soon be upon the land of ice and snow. Seems like a good time for a reporter to go and visit Pattaya and ask some questions around some of the bars/brothels operated by the implicated local parties.

Of course there are ruthless criminals everywhere, but what man and his penis is not ruthless when the hormones kick in??? What these governements are really trying to do is make men eunichs and women men, in the quest for A social equality that doesn't exist biologically. I believe in the long run, maybe 100 more years, the societies will collapse as people become so dysfunctional that they stop procreating...Oh, wait a minute, hasn't it started already??? Population control is necessary, but not genital control, which is really robbing men of their biological rights--and women as well. How governements view this is a moral stance, yet their morality is usually one of economic thinking which robs them of their biological sense. What would their ancestors, the VIKINGS have to say about this??? I can see their scouls already. I am sure they would not support a lack of sexual outlets, and if it came to a vote, I think it would be 100%. Let's face it, without a VIKING history no one would think of the SWEDES at all; so be proud of your history of RAPE, PILLAGE AND PLUNDER. Anyway, with the standard of living in decline, the world in permanent recession (it was built on phony stimulus which borrowed against the future...weren't these guys smart?) we will never have the standard of living in the West that we had as a consumption oriented society, so these girls are probably, in the long run, better off in a highly developed society than their own. It is shocking for Christian societies to see sex available like that isn't it? PRUDES!

Judging by his name, he is an expert who cannot be ignored by Thais.

WRONG! EXPERTS ARE ALWAYS IGNORED WHEN PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO LISTEN. IN THE BUSH WHITE HOUSE, EXPERTS ON THE MIDEAST WERE IGNORED. RECENTLY AS AN EXPERIENCED PROPERTY MANAGER DEALING WITH FELLOW VILLAGE PERSONS, I WAS IGNORED IN FAVOR OF HIGHLY PLACED PEOPLE WHO SIMPLY DON'T WANT TO LISTEN: THEY WANT CONTROL IN THEIR ARROGANCE. IF THE WORLD DOESN'T RESPECT EDUCATION, WHY NOT CLOSE EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS.

the problem with inaugurating the "jury system" is that officials in countries that have it have learned how to rig that, too.

one trick they use is to select jury candidates only from districts who are likely to vote one way or another.

for example -- with a radical political defendant (like a red shirt), officials can select jurors only from districts that usually vote conservatively. This is a trick played by the "registrar of voters" in the USA because jurors are selected from the list of voters.

second, if you look at juries in America, you notice that they are not really a cross section of society, but only a very narrow sample of middle and lower-middle class people. In america for example-- there are no bikers (I mean real bikers not Sunday bikers), rastas, goths, rockers, heavy metallers, hippies, etc on juries. A lot of the red shirts would be Thai equivalent of bikers or rastas or hippies in the USA. So such a jury would never bring in a fair verdict against them.

Another trick the American courts use is that, when the state's attorney does not want a particular defendant to be convicted, the states attorney will deliberate present a bad case. The jury will then think that the state's attorney did not prove their case and they will vote to acquit. This is why police and government officials in American almost never get convicted. But a red shirt who is not a government official or policeperson would be convicted for the same crime, because then the state's attorney would mount a good case.

Democratic countries in the so-called developed world have worked out a whole bunch of tricks to fool the populace and keep they same system in power.

Your insights into the working of the US justice system are truly incredible!

He just returned to Thailand to fight the case.

And so the giant stink if they kick him out now will go world wide.

Another instance of embarrassed officials shooting off at the mouth first,

then considering the consequences later...

I suspect someone has eyes on his properties too...

So he won't be allowed to fight the charges, but blacklisted without a day in court,

or will he and it proves a set up by the scumbag who dimed him out?

And of course a real embarrassment for the whole police bureau that perp-walked him,

and took what they thought was a easy pay off to let him go perform,

never expecting him to return of course.

The tripe mixed with bile gets deeper by the hour.

AS THE WEST IMPOSES ITS VALUES ON THE EAST, THINGS GET MORE CONFUSED HERE. ONCE UPON A TIME,I TOOK JUDO LESSONS FROM A KOREAN, LONG BEFORE THIS ISSUE (PEODOPHILIA) WAS A SPOKEN WORD. HE EXPLAINED TO ME A CHINESE CUSTOM, OF OLD MEN LYING WITH YOUNG TWO YOUNG GIRLS, HIS HANDS ON THEIR VAGINAS, IN AN ATTEMPT TO ABSORB THEIR YOUTHFUL ENERGY. WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH RESPECT FOR ANCIENT CUSTOMS, WHICH WE INTERFERE WITH. WHILE SOME SEEM BARBARIC AND ARE, THE HARM WE DO BY IMPOSING OUR VALUES ON THEIR BELIEFS ARE LIKE THE IGNORANT IMPOSING THEIR WILL ON THE LEARNED. WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND SO COMPLETELY TO DISMISS ANCIENT VALUES SO TRIVIALLY. WITNESS THE CHINESE NOW OVERWHELMING THE TIBETAN CULTURE WITH THE SAME RESOLVE; IT IS ALL IN ONE VEIN--A LACK OF RESPECT. THERE MUST BE SOME HAPPY MEDIUM HERE, NOT JUST IN TERMS OF INSIDEOUS WESTERN MOTIVATIONS OF EXPLOITATION, BUT IN TERMS OF RESPECTING THE TRADITIONS OF PEOPLES WE ARE JUST PLAIN IGNORANT ABOUT. WE CANNOT BE TOTTALY RIGHT OR MORAL IN A WORLD OF RELATIVITY.

EDIT:

Do not post your reply in another members quote and do not post in CAPS. It is considered shouting- mario2008

I'm confused about the word, peodophilia. It means, in Greek, child and love I think. Just exactly what is the "normal" interaction between adults and young people in these situations? The reason I mention this, is that in Ancient Greece, it was considered appropriate and normal for a young man to be "sponsored" by an older man, so that he could be instructed in cultural ways. This did also include some form of sexual expression as well. As the Greeks left their mark on civilization which will last as long as there is an advanced civilization; as the United States imposes its virtue on civilizations that cannot articulate their beliefs without the ridicule of more materialistic societies; as a major form of mental illnessin the US was hysteria according to psychiatric journals in the past century, I wonder just what transferrance of Western values to Asia is in a variety of feelings, values, and so forth. Are we transferring psychological hysteria and substituting this for whatever situation the Thais have? Are we simply taking a laisse faire Buddhist culture and driving the society into a materialistic corner which calls for more "modern"--read Christian--values?

Is it attitudes of revulsion, attitudes of social hierarchy, attitudes of sexuality that we are transferring? What were the social mores in SE Asia before the West became a controling influence? What is the psychological perspective from these men who have been incarcerated? What did they get from an encounter with a child? What was the encounter?

We will never know what psychological, emotional and social attitudes color this electrifying topic, except of course, hysteria and punishment. We will never know what are the driving forces of needs, wants and feelings for the men involved; we will never understand the social context in Asia or any cultural aspects of this situation--as in Ancient Greece.

From a foreign perspective, it seems; everything is backwards here. But in reality, everything is the way it should be. Foreigners should not buy land since it raises the price beyond what Thais can pay and destroys their ability to earn a living. Foreign capital is necessary to build wealth and so they encourage business ventures particularly capital intensive ones; meanwhile, foreigners get alot more than they can get in their own countries. Its a win win situation.

I particularly object to foreign capital buying farmland. This raises the price of soil which raises the cost of production and lowers the profit. This is a big issue now.

Foreigners: DO THE RIGHT THING. LEASE LAND AND PROPERTY(IF YOU WANT TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE DESIGNATED INTERNATIONAL AREAS) DON'T TRY TO GET AROUND THIS, IT WILL HARM THE THAI PEOPLE.