tropic1000

Not sure about other parts of Laos, but i spent a week in Luang Prabang, and i can say that the locals understand my Thai and I understand their "Thai", much more easily than when i am talking to locals in Bangkok. It was a amazing to discover and made the trip way easier.

I have no idea why this was the case, except that maybe their fluency was at a very basic level - just like mine!

Agreed. Take away bikes from racers, then no more racing.

But, no police on hand, no take away bikes.

Step one, need police on hand -- and ready to respond. Step two, take away bikes.

That probably means beefing up the night squad!

As inferred from some posts above, the solution can be multifaceted.

On the one hand, better enforcement, and on the other, better deterrence and prevention. The suggestion for therapy for the racers? These are people whose thrill is speed and breaking the law, so not sure how easy therapy sessions would be.

Isn't most of the racing at night? And while I'd like to know how the stats of numbers of police to citizens compare with other countries, the bigger question might be in knowing if there are enough at night. I never see many after 6 pm. when the vermin are most active. Did anyone else notice this too?

I agree SpiderMike.

I heard VGI, the original investor and seller of the screen ads, was founded by Taksin's son.

Anyway, their first contract dates back to Taksin government days.

It's a pity that VGI was allowed (as many countries disallow audio) to have ads with audio in the first place, both in BTS cars and on the platforms, but even worse, they set their own volumes, which is often quite high.

Not sure if there's much that can be done about it in the short term, especially if there's many who don't care or may even like it.

Cheshiremusicman: can you please post the link you are using right here on this forum topic?

Cheshiremusicman: is this the site you found the visibility for HH? http://www.aws-observation.tmd.go.th/web/climate/climate_past.asp

Ripley wrote: They're pressing to amend our Regulations to reflect this policy.

It sounds like you have two issues:

[1] you are not happy that the committee wants to amend the regulations to support 2 meetings per year

[2] you are wondering if they can get the job done with only two meetings per year.

The first seems strange, as the law already allows this. Generally they would need an AGM approval by 50% of the owners [section 48/4] to change a bylaw or regulation and i doubt this one would pass.

The second is tough but i would doubt they could do a good job with only two meetings a year unless the manager and outside management company have everything perfectly handled, and this is rare especially in regards to proper funding of future maintenance. Volunteer committees can vary in their interest and time they can devote to do the needed work. It's hard to fire the lazy members. Try summarize all the things you see that are not getting done and talk to the JPM or the property manager to see where the ball is being dropped. Once you have a handle on this, then write a letter to the committee stating the issues and see if you can follow up with the chairman. It may even be that they appreciate the input.

Can you get elected at the next AGM or at least seek a consensus of other owners that share your concerns? Try set up webpage on Facebook or www.AddressTalk.com

There's always the option of talking to a consultant, such as a lawyer, about your concern that the committee and management are allowing the property to degrade. Your condo is an asset you may best protect by seeking action, but there may be risk in that too.

I am on several committee boards in Thailand and here's a few thoughts:

[1] Be sure you know the most recent version of Thai law. The most recent version i found is Revision 4 of the 2008 Condo Act. See Section 22 of this PDF http://nova-thailand.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Condominium-Act-2008.pdf This law overrides and mandates the regulations of all condos and even how these regulations can be changed. Note they are not necessarily that easy to change. The law also dictates what needs to be decided at the AGM versus what can and/or should be handled by the committee. For the point you bring up, the PDF states in Section 22: “SECTION 38 line 3: The committee shall retain the authority and duty ... to convene a committee meeting at least once every six months;..." The words "at least" are a key here and don't match what you say in line 1 of your post.

[2] To me, the correct number of meetings is that amount needed to maintain and manage the condo to achieve a pleasant environment for all residents - which includes safety, security, good function, appearance, peace, and quiet. The worse things are, the more effort, research, and discussion needed by a committee to get the job done. It also depends a lot on how well the committee members work together and how much support is given by hired management; furthermore, missed meetings and conflicts of interest by members will certainly hamper a committee's progress. Maintenance planning and financial management alone take lots of time in order to avoid problems and surprises as maintenance and replacement needs grow.

[3] Putting a good committee together can be difficult, and i am surprised that any condo committee, e.g yours, would actually see a need to limit the meetings to 2.

My question is: Was a reason given to limit the meetings?

Unless a good reason is given, i personally would recommend to oppose this as being unnecessary and even risky.

In our view, it is not practical and to the best of our knowledge, no Condominium requires work permit for foreign committee members. We called and checked with the Labor Department, and got confirmation that no work permit is required for foreign committee members as it is deemed as the foreign co-owners manage their own property, not working. However, if the foreign co-owner becomes the juristic person manager, the Labor Department is of the view that the work permit is required.

In any case, it's best to have your manager call the Labor department or consult your condo's lawyer.

As noted by others, this topic has been discussed before on Thai-visa:

See also the June 30, 2013 article in the Bangkok Post:

The lowdown on commercial operations at condo developments

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investigation/357586/the-lowdown-on-commercial-operations-at-condo-developments

Frankly, the revenues would seem to be pretty minor. To me, the bigger issue would be the liability and security risk of not knowing who was parking and what unit they are associated with. There could be issues as to appearance, damage, injury or some usage of the vehicle that is inappropriate, and the owner of the vehicle and unit need to be contacted. Some owners park and leave town for months and no one knows how to contact them.

One way to keep track is to ask owners and residents to keep their contact info updated by creating a condo page on either FaceBook or www.AddressTalk.com.

I know this is a bit off topic but while the funding via a trust account has really worked well, it is really just one benefit of the lawyer.

The idea of using a lawyer to reduce risk, especially for foreigner involvement, has many facets and applies to everyone whether you live in Thailand or not.

Here are some of the issues and risks where buyers can benefit from some professional help in Thailand: [1] there is no western style escrow system in common practice [i.e. your team must verify all deal points, the documents and the property beforehand], [2] there is generally very poor disclosure incentive/compliance by the seller, [3] valuations are tricky because of historically unreliable transaction records and [4] you are usually best off to negotiate the transfer taxes/fees at the same time as the price and terms [5] you want to be sure to protect your deposit and [6] that you have a strong contract such that seller is legally bound to deliver and not sell to someone else.

The actual transfer process is pretty basic, the buyer brings the money and the seller brings the deed, you lay them out on a table at the land office, and the officer massages the documents for a few hours and voila, transaction complete. For me, i give a power of attorney to my lawyer and let him go to the land office too. With all the potential things that could go wrong, it's better to have the lawyer check every thing and do the calculations first, otherwise? surprise surprise can rears its head or the deal can fall apart. A lawyer does add some cost to the deal, but it does reduce risk.

Good luck!

if you live in HK, i would consider to have a Thai attorney prepare a contract, and verify the terms of the transaction to be sure you are getting the deal you want.

Many reputable attorneys also offer a trust account, where you can transfer the money in the name of the law firm prior to the transaction. The funds are then used by the attorney at the time of transfer.

An example is Somphob Law in Bangkok. I have used them many times, and it removes much of the risk and should solve your bank problem.

As mentioned before, i am happy for you that the good guys have won, and that your legal and management teams were an integral part of this. In fact, i think you were lucky to find them, and would appreciate knowing how you found them. Can you share this?

Our legal team consists of three young lawyers specialising in

(1) condominium law

(2) litigation

(3) Various forms of visas

(4) family law

Cabiore law firm

Knathip Phuwasitteeranun--- ---Khun Royce 086-448-5712

I tried calling the phone given for Cabiore but it was showing not in service.

Does anyone have a land-line number for their office? What is their office location in Chiang Mai?

Thank you for this and hats off to your condo crew for finding them, and even more so for having the guts to hire them.

Property law in relation to condos is a real challenge and knowing the practicalities of committee behavior is a real key.

May I also ask who is your outside property management company?

to mascarakatze:

That's great that you found an good outside condominium management company.

Are there many choices in Chiang Mai?

mascarakatze:

How many units are in your building? It sounds large.

That's great that you found [1] an outside condominium management company and [2] a legal team that you are happy with.

Its hard to find good operators and ones that can take charge so quickly. How did you find these?

For those stilling looking for whole wheat bread, Foodland claims to have a version.

- I would not take a Juristic Person without a work permit.

Just to clarify terminology, i think some of the posts which are referring to the "Juristic Person" are actually speaking of the "Juristic Person Manager" [JPM] or simply the officially elected "Manager" of the condo.

Note that the JPM must be elected according to Section 49 of the lastest version of the Thai Condo Act. see http://www.addresstalk.com/forums/forums/government--2/topics/thailand-condominium-act-full-version-unofficial-english-translation

Part of Section 49 indicates that any resolution for the appointment or removal of the Manager shall receive votes of not less than one fourth of the joint owners’ total votes [at a General Meeting].

I note also that there can be an Acting JPM in the case where there is no vote yet or there is less than 25% agreement. I also note that i have seen cases where the elected JPM has no salary.

Here is a 2011 article posted in the Bangkok Post by a respected law firm:

http://www.tilleke.com/sites/default/files/2011-sep9-penalties-for-working-without-a-permit.pdf

Note also that a friend of mine called the Labor Dept. to clarify the need for work permits for foreign committee members. Here's the response.

"No work permit is required for foreign committee members as it is deemed as the foreign co-owners managing their own property, not working. However, if the foreign co-owner becomes the juristic person manager, the Labor Department is of the view that the work permit is required."

I didn't confirm the above, so plz. call the Labor Dept. if you are a foreigner thinking of joining a condo committee, and, even better, seek something in writing from them!

Here's a reference in the Bangkok Post yesterday:

link to Bangkok Post removed per forum rules, please read them

As mentioned in my post above, i would look for and post an English version of the 2000 Thai Village Development Act. Here is the correct link: http://www.addresstalk.com/forums/forums/government--2/topics/the-land-development-act-b-e-2543-2000 A Thai version is posted in my earlier post. Keep in mind that these might not be official versions, but they could get you started.

Unfortunately, the link to the English version show a badly done copy, and if anyone has a better version please post it in this thread and at http://www.addresstalk.com/v/53/ncot-network-of-condominium-owners-in-thailand-bangkok .

I sense that your interest is just about promoting AddressTalk.

I can find no record of this 2000 Thai Village Development Act

Sorry if i got carried away about AddressTalk, however, i see i input the wrong web link for the English version. Here is the correct link: http://www.addresstalk.com/forums/forums/government--2/topics/the-land-development-act-b-e-2543-2000

In any case, a web solution is certainly an option to consider for villages, and while AddressTalk tailors itself for multi-unit properties, Facebook is an option that many have used too; both are free, so its up to each village's circumstances and research in figuring out useful resources.

As far as the Thai law goes, "Delight" is right - its hard to track this law down. I was told about it by a Thai property manager who had actually used it. The Thai version is at: http://www.addresstalk.com/forums/forums/government--2/topics/thailand-village-development-act-thai-language . It's worth having a Thai friend read through it to see if it might help in cases where village governance is ailing.

I believe that all new developments are required to incorporate this law, and that some older ones can seek to register after the fact at the Land Office. If you hear differently, please let me know. I know one village that has done this in Pattaya - it's called Central Park 4.

The idea of the gate with the key card sounds excellent, but it may require approval by a juristic body under Thai law [just guessing here]; on the other hand, who has sympathy for the spongers anyway? The notion of letting the pool or other facilities go into disrepair sounds sad, because, first, it may be hard to bring them back to life, and secondly, this action would very likely hurt both property values and any efforts to unify owners. How about a key card for the pool too? I'd like to know some brand or product names if any has a good key card system.

To summarize, if basic meetings are not working, try:

[1] Check what Thai laws might help organize members with binding covenants

[2] Set up an online community to network members

[3] Check what guerrilla tactics make sense for your village: i like the card key entry at the gate and/or pool.

As mentioned in my post above, i would look for and post an English version of the 2000 Thai Village Development Act. Here it is: http://www.addresstalk.com/v/53/ncot-network-of-condominium-owners-in-thailand-bangkok A Thai version is posted in my early post. Keep in mind that these are not necessarily official versions but they could get you started.

Unfortunately, the English version i am posting here was not copied well, and if anyone has a better version please post it in this thread and at http://www.addresstalk.com/v/53/ncot-network-of-condominium-owners-in-thailand-bangkok .

For Giddyup, you will need to find out if you village has already achieved any juristic status and, if not, you can look to see if you could achieve that under this law. A good lawyer or a trip to the Land Office might get you started. An understanding of this law may help you to see what rights you have.

If anyone has experience with setting up a village under this law [or any other law!], please post it on this thread and on AddressTalk. As mentioned, it's often hard to get all the owners together at the same time, let alone to give them the info they need to reach any consensus. A good medium is the AddressTalk.com website where you can set up an online community for your village, add members, connect members, and post documents. Its free. This could be useful too in the case where there are owners who are traveling or simply have two places of residence.

Clearly, common area fees are needed for upkeep in any development with shared elements e.g. security, roadways, elevators etc. Non payment of common area fees can happen in any country, but the enforcement boils down to knowing what the rules are, what the penalties are, and who is responsible to decide, notify and impose the penalties.

The Thai Condo Act certainly address non-payment and can assess interest penalties of over 12% in certain cases; but your case is not a condo. It is my understanding that the Thai Village Development law is very different and many villages are only subject to this law if they have sought the appropriate registration to allow juristic governance. This link is an unofficial Thai version of 2000: http://www.addresstalk.com/forums/forums/government--2/topics/thailand-village-development-act-thai-language

Sorry that i have only sourced a Thai version for now, but I will try to find and post an English version. As others have said, you really need legal help to know your options, costs and risks of taking action, or worse, not taking action. A few selfish ones can sour things for many. Once the pool stops getting cleaned or the security gates go unmanned, property prices will likely be impinged along with quality of life.

Just remember, for those of you who are thinking to buy into projects of multiple units or homes, ask to see the contract and village regulations first; be clear on what the rules are, who manages it, what's the track record of the developer, and what happens when the money runs out. You can't depend on the seller, an agent, or the developers sales staff to really know the worst case outcomes. The www.addresstalk.com web platform is a good way to band the owners together, and you can start by posting your village on the site, uploading the regulations, and then inviting other owners.

In any case, please keep us posted on your progress.