Cluey

why do you think most thais have great distain for them?

I have NO respect for bar girls but great respect for garbo's and construction workers.

Both for the same reason in my opinion, thoughtless acceptance of religious/cultural/family brainwashing.

bar girls quickly learn to lie, cheat, steal, gamble, etc, not unlike BIB and gov employees, not an honest days work IMO,

Again I think this is because of the fact it's prohibited by law that it attracts immoral people, in places where there's not much stigma and properly regulated you don't get the same correlations.

how many TV members who support bar girls as nothing wrong with it, would be ok for their daughters and sisters to enter into the same line of work? not many I'll warrant?

As for myself, already answered that above. I certainly wouldn't want my daughter to become a corporate lawyer or politician or wall street banker either, although I do generally despise people in those occupations and presume them to be evil people, I also admit that's a biased prejudice and doesn't apply to all of them.

I think it might be a good idea rent out your own body orifices before you start making such assured statements on the matter.

I'd certainly consider doing so if I had a hard time meeting my obligations and that earned per night as much as I'd make in a month otherwise, and wouldn't feel shame about that choice.

I talked to my mum about it when I was a teen, had gotten a very good offer from an older guy she knew, and her response was "do what you think is right, but personally I'd advise getting yourself into any situation where you turned control over your life over to others."

On the other hand she would have been proud if I'd become a corporate lawyer or investment banker. . .

Never ever invest a single Baht in a Thai rented property.

That's very silly, I've only heard Thais say this. I can afford to pay B30,000 per month. I find a house that needs work for B10,000, and know I'm going to stay there for at least three years, and secure a rolling 3-year lease.

If I want to fix the place up so I can really enjoy living in it, I now have a B240,000 budget to spend on improvements, even given the fact that I can take lots of them with me when I go - of course having spelled that out in the lease. And to a higher quality standard of work and exactly to my taste.

If I stay for five years rather than three then I'm still definitely ahead of the game, would probably paint again for example, replace a couple of appliances, air conditioners etc.

A bit more upscale example: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/greathomesanddestinations/14iht-rebangkok14.html

Sorry but photo or not, you will never see your 200 000 !

What gives you that idea? As long as he approaches things with the right attitude, odds are in my experience much better than 50/50. But perhaps he's already gotten confrontational with the man himself rather than just here, in which case you're probably right.

I had an Accord I bought at 300km, finally wasn't worth fixing anymore at around 550, but mainly because the body was all eaten out by the salt used on the roads rather than mechanical issues.

If you had it since new and have been changing the oil properly with good stuff, doing the recommended maintenance should be good for a few more years.

Granpa didn't do so bad for someone clueless about cars did he?

Thai women are the same as any women in the world!

1/ They are attracted to success!

2/ They like a laugh and a good time!

3/ They like to be treated right!

Unfortunately the majority of Thai men don't fill the criteria.

Ya, keep believing that spin, "I no like Thai man, Thai man no good only like falang, like old man like fat man same same you"

Actually pretty stringent criteria there, probably most farang don't come up to scratch.

Have to say I've done all right without 1 & 2, and most people would call my #3 pretty kee nio.

The answer to the OP's question is quite simple. Just put it to this simple test. Where is the bottle of Jack being sold. If the answer is Thailand then chances are the bottle of Jack is not genuine. This also valid for some other countries but since we're only talking about Thailand we mention only that country

So far sounds like only the land-border zones are an issue, no one's reported this happening in mainstream stores in Bangkok or main tourist areas. . .

So if you are talking about sex workers, why call them bargirls?

Why not include the vast majority of sex workers who work from massage places, short-time hotels and brothels.

It's a pretty common and understood euphemism isn't it. I think the OP probably wasn't used to the term "sex worker", probably would have used "prostitute" but didn't want to be so blatantly disparaging.

And he probably was specifically talking about that tiny segment of the industry that targets farangs, of which I believe the majority do solicit from bars, either as employees or freelancing.

And while it is true that in those sorts of bars, there may be a few staff that don't routinely go with customers, but in my experience that's only during their initial "getting acclimated" period and it usually just takes the right combination of high enough price and not-too-disgusting appearance for most of them to break through the barrier. I've always like the challenge of trying to take the cashier myself. . .

I do honestly think the OP wasn't trying to imply "all" or "most" or even "a high proportion" of Thai girls were sex workers.

I think he meant to discuss "out of those who do choose sex work, how many do so out of economic necessity as opposed to supposed laziness?" or whatever else he thinks causes the 'bad morals'

I have always fought the use of corporal punishment used in the American school system, with no avail because it is the law of the land based on the "Tinker" decision, that the school district has parental responsibilities and are allow the right to corporal punishment in that parental role.

Corporal punishment is banned in most states, in some even regarding private schools.

Where allowed, it is usually closely regulated by the school districts so that a teacher can't simply do it as s/he likes spur of the moment, but sends the kid off to undergo a closely prescribed more or less ritual "paddling".

I thought it was interesting that girls have sued for the "right" to be paddled, in that boys get offered the choice between that and sitting in detention, and some girls apparently prefer the spanking (kinky? or maybe really really don't want to miss cheer-leading practice.)

As in Thailand , publicly losing face for most kids hurts more than the actual smacks.

And plenty of white kids get a lousy education there too, not just minorities. But still 99% of the time much better than the Thai government system.

Well going off on tangents is a sign that the topic itself has pretty well petered out.

The OP's opinion that it's very hard to find Thais able and willing to discuss deep and meaningful issues.

Apparently some others find it less difficult, and have issued a standing invitation to a mixed evening D&M conversation salon over dinner.

We have been warned not to extrapolate from the situation so as to denigrate the intellectual capacity of the population as a whole.

What else is there to say?

Novelty or theatrical lenses are usually non-prescription, but a limited number of prescription designs are available to order online.

You might ask at high-end opticians at the better malls, but personally I'd be very wary of such products in Thailand, I assume you value your eyes. . .

wow... your mrs must really feel like she hit the jackpot ay...

Did anything in my post imply there was a wife in my household?

Thank all that's good I managed to persuade her to leave a long time ago, she was going through my salary like it was water, seemed to think there was some magic hoard of unlimited coin stashed away somewhere I wasn't telling her, we'd never have survived at that rate. . .

Most of the shops I go to the proprietor uses their abacus thingie, much faster than any calculator.

But the 3x20 thing is more for fail-safe communications with the customer, or possibly pure habit.

It is not true that most Thai shopkeepers are bad at maths, not at all.

Many sex workers go to farangland under the "cover story" of being students, also as wives of citizens.

Some more genuine in both categories also do some sex work on the side, or end up running off from their previous occupation and "go underground" violating their visas, often able to live for decades without getting caught.

Obviously none of this has anything to do with most of our wives or Thai students, but it's not an insignificant percentage.

He's not an outsider, he's a neighbour. However, if he choose not to do anything, he'll be thought of as the guy who can be pushed around.

Talk with the guy and ask him nicely to turn it down and if he refuses go to the police. Too many here don't make any effort to integrate and be an EQUAL member of the community.

A farang can live in the village for a hundred years and he'll always be an outsider.

Going to the police is just silly, do you think you're in farangland? talk about causing unnecessary problems, swatting a fly on my computer monitor with a sledgehammer makes more sense.

Let the neighbors sort it out with help if needed from local informal senior elders, the puyai baan, local abbot or whatever.

Other options include just learning to live with it, or failing that moving.

Until a nearly-free clean and safe method is found for generating electricity, it's not an environmentally responsible source of power.

And then transporting it long distances is inherently very very very wasteful.

Then add the environmental costs of manufacturing the batteries, their limited lifespan, disposal costs etc.

One day hydrogen maybe, until then NGV/LPG as good as it gets.

And of course getting away of the whole private personal vehicle will help, public transport + properly designed communities to encourage/enable walking and bicycling otherwise will be the way to go.

Unfortunately we probably wont' be so sensible until we're forced to, by which time quality of life will be down the toilet in many other ways.

Rubbish, work with street people and see what bar work does to them.

Exactly my point, you're starting with a population already much more susceptible to all kinds of problems.

And just like with drug use, most of the associated social problems are a result of the prohibition. Legal and properly regulated, eventually social stigma eliminated or at least greatly reduced then sex workers won't be any more "traumatized" by their choice of trade than the garbage men, certainly less than our serving soldiers.

You are not being told the truth.

My wife gets 200 baht a day for food and that includes 50 baht to each of my kids for their school snacks. She also buys petrol with that. This puts a substantial meal for 4 on our dinner table, with plenty left for the 3 dogs.

Our daily food budget is 170 without the fuel or kids pocket money, and that's for 6-7 in the house. In addition to that I'll spend 500 or so on a weekly trip for milk, eggs cleaning supplies etc.

But that's from the cheapest wet market in town, and it is skimping by farang standards for sure, most foreigners would require at least double that, and still wouldn't be getting food they're used to.

Two years ago 100 baht was sufficient, basic fruit/veg/meat prices have gone up that much.

Of course nothing to do with Isaan in particular, in that respect Bangkok is actually cheaper than upcountry.

But not in the usual sense of the word "allow", or else you'd say Canada allows its citizens to murder each other too.

And Canada does allow its citizens to own guns, apparently 1 in 15 of-age Canadians are registered to do so, with about 10 million guns in civilian hands there.

There is no reason to disrespect yourself just because you choose work that pays more because others prefer not to do it, or because it is dangerous.

For example garbage men in my home town make well over 100K USD per year - 144K with benefits, more with overtime - many even elite call-girls don't make that much.

The only "shame" that may come from doing sex work is due to the religious-cultural programming, and many people these days are learning to free themselves from that as much as they can - which for most of us is very little.

I think your observation about mental illness is not a causal one, or rather more likely the other way around, people with mental illness tend to gravitate toward roles society deems "outcast".

In other parts of the world there are sex workers organization that help them realize their role isn't an "immoral" one, help build up their pride.

And you're certainly wrong in claiming that it's easy work, most sex workers I know earn every penny they make, often do the work that others go to priests or psychologists for, sex is often the least important aspect. Not so true here with the language barriers I admit. . .

Good luck with those rules here. Especially since the topic as you defined it isn't appropriate for TV.com.

But to answer, I'd say of course, and the reason is that it's been traditional in most societies since we invented money for men to earn most of it for the family. Therefore what you talk about has been much more socially acceptable for women than for men, there's a stigma, sometimes just a subtle one and not held by all, attached to a man marrying "up", especially if he then stops working as hard as he would have had to otherwise.

Personally I prefer my wives to be traditional like that, but now that I think about it it's because I prefer to be the dominant partner - if I married a wealthy woman who was happy to be submissive then I guess I'd be OK with that.

Yes, they do love their gore. . .

One would hope it would encourage safer driving, like the pics on cigarette packs.

Much prefer my kids to see nudity or even normal sex acts than violence and carnage.

They won't be setting up FB accounts for at least another 10 years, unless they develop better parental controls by then.

Perhaps if the passport hasn't actually been issued the PIC can be used to verify that it's in process?

I'd say you're OK if the form states N/A is an acceptable answer. . .

Can live more cheaply in Somalia too, doesn't mean you'd actually want to. . .

Anyone living out in upcountry Nakon Nowhere just because they thought it would save them some money should get their head examined, I sure hope you all have better reasons than that!