thomasteve

I just measured a bare Haco plug using my Kill-A-watt.

Read a consumption of 0.3 Watts, over a year 24x7 that would cost about 600 Baht, seems a lot, can somebody check my maths please.

I may be removing the LEDs from my plugs.

Hopefully the Kill-A-Watt is not accurate at low consumptions.

I calculate it at 2.6 kWh or units over a year

So do I. A unit costs about 2 - 4 baht?

But either way the LED is mostly not really required.

As i remember the Haco plugs it was a neon with a resistor rather than an LED but you can remove it if you wish. The plugs were a little small to wire if you had a thick cable coming in under the cord clamp and I did find the top covers tended to pull off as the 2 small self-tapping screws holding the cover on failed. Better plugs (although a lot uglier !) were the black rubber circular ones from electrical dealers - they resembled more of an industrial design with an external metal cord clamp.

I just measured a bare Haco plug using my Kill-A-watt.

Read a consumption of 0.3 Watts, over a year 24x7 that would cost about 600 Baht, seems a lot, can somebody check my maths please.

I may be removing the LEDs from my plugs.

Hopefully the Kill-A-Watt is not accurate at low consumptions.

I calculate it at 2.6 kWh or units over a year

I would also first check that the tester unit itself has been wired up correctly to its attached plug - with the live pin on the left (do you have a photo of the 3 -pin plug or is moulded onto the back of the tester unit ?

It looks as if it has been modified for Thailand.

L & N transposed at the outlet isn't going to be immediately fatal or even present a significant hazard (unlike in the UK where our fused plugs could result in live equipment with an open fuse).

That said it isn't right, and we are in the business of doing things right (or at least as right as possible here).

However, an L - N swap at the incoming supply does present an immediate hazard, so it's important to:-

1. Know you have a swap
2. Know where the swap occurs

So what you're saying is this is one instance where "crossed wires" should be OK?

With most of the world (and so most imported electrical items) using live on the right side then it may not be such a problem that the live and neutral may have been transposed at the outlets ? The majority of items have 2 pin plugs fitted which can often be inserted either way around and hopefully have a double pole on/off switch. For earthed appliances sold in Thailand they are often sold fitted with a European plug, where the polarity would follow European conventions. If the socket outlet has been wired correctly for Thailand (live on the left) it would then become necessary to rewire the 3 pin European plug. Any idea why Thailand decided to be different and have live on the left side ?

Well I would not condone doing the wiring incorrectly but it may not be as unsafe as it first seems.

Most appliances have 2 -pin plugs which can be inserted either way.

If the European (eg.Schuko) 3 -pin plugs do not fit your Thai socket outlets (due to the pin spacing) then it becomes necessary to replace them anyway so you can rewire according to the correct Thai configuration.

Many of the Thai multistrip and extension sockets have the L and N wired wrongly so beware if you need to use them.

The problem with 99% of the 3-light testers available on the international market is that most of the world's outlets are live on the right so a simple adaptor won't do the trick. The only exception I know of is North America (which is 110V). The Philippines is 220V and uses the US outlet, but it also uses 3-phase 3-wire with the outlets between phases, so there's no neutral per-sé (both legs are about 130V above ground).

I've found a few testers which have a lead which can have the plug replaced but the one in the OP is the first I've seen specifically aimed at Thailand.

Using a voltstick / neon screwdriver alone can give misleading results, for example it may light on a disconnected ground (by capacitive coupling).

With most of the world (and so most imported electrical items) using live on the right side then it may not be such a problem that the live and neutral may have been transposed at the outlets ? The majority of items have 2 pin plugs fitted which can often be inserted either way around and hopefully have a double pole on/off switch. For earthed appliances sold in Thailand they are often sold fitted with a European plug, where the polarity would follow European conventions. If the socket outlet has been wired correctly for Thailand (live on the left) it would then become necessary to rewire the 3 pin European plug. Any idea why Thailand decided to be different and have live on the left side ?

EDIT : Assuming that the European 3-pin plugs fit Thai outlets ?

They managed to connect my house supply with live and neutral reversed (from the meter outside).

It means all the neutral wires in the house were live, no matter what position the fuse box switches were in.

Very dangerous.

I also had that happen so it seems to be quite a common occurrence, probably due to both L and N being the same black colour.

The Thai 3 pin socket outlets have the live on the left side, neutral on the right and earth at the top when looking from the front.

So the live and neutral are transposed compared to the UK convention - the same may be true for the German configuration ?

He was fortunate as perhaps the tape measure casing was plastic or he was insulated somewhat by the paint on the steel tape measure.

If the plug was pushed fully home into the socket there would have been no space for the steel rule to slip into.

Part insulated pins on plugs are safer as they prevent such accidents that occur when plugs have not been fully inserted and remain partially exposed. Looks like you need to buy him a new measuring tape anyway as the markings are already worn off

By all means plug into a switched socket but first check the current rating for the switch against current used by the fan. In this instance I would prefer to use a switchless socket (most Thai switches are flimsy) and install a fan with a pull cord operated switch. That way an earth would not be necessary if the fan has a metal case but mounted out of reach. Most appliances in Thailand, even those with metal cases do not seem to have an earth wire connected to the plug but many have a terminal to connect an earth wire. Safety first. Check toasters, kettles, irons etc. on sale. 99% are unsafe and would not be permitted in Europe. A two pin plug is a dead (pun intended) giveaway. Most electrical equipment "Made in China" horrifies me.

I am a qualified electrical engineer and a qualified electronics engineer. I hope this post helps some people who are not as aware of electrical safety.

Good advice but a bit misleading on the plugs. With double insulation two pin is an acceptable format and cannot be taken as a no go appliance. These days 2 pin plugs are fairly common in the UK. By 2 pin, I mean the standard UK 3 pin construction but with a plastic earth pin.

The reference was to toasters, kettles and irons though and the majority of those are of insulation class1 and do require earthing.

Where is the extractor fan located? If it is in the bathroom then switches should all be outside the room, or activated by a "pull-strng"

Additionally, the reason why "Shaver' sockets are so marked is because they are normally located within the bathroom complex, and are highly fused.

Not so much highly fused but they were (still are ?) expensive if intended for use near water as they had an integral isolating transformer for the ultimate in safety.

Previously various bayonet-cap bakelite lighting adaptors and pull-cord single to double lighting adaptors used to be available.

They have been banned in many countries as all sorts of appliances were then used to overload a single light fitting.

Seems like they are still around : http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-1406-Outlet-Socket-Adapter/dp/B0015SHT3W/ref=pd_cp_hi_3

Unfortunately it doesn't.

Have a read of the pinned topics at the start of this forum to understand more.

This site http://www.fam-oud.nl/~plugsocket/Overview.html is worth a look for us electrical trainspotters, all sorts of plugs and outlets old and new (yes the Thai stuff was donated by yours-truly).

Interesting site - brings back memories of the old Wylex plugs !!

Looks like a very useful adaptor to have as some insulation Class 1 imports (usually metal cased appliances eg.toasters) do come fitted with Schuko plugs and so won't be earthed if used in Thai sockets without such an adaptor or completely replacing the supplied moulded on plug.

The hole in the plug is to accomodate the fixed earth prong that is found in some European sockets.

Finding a rewireable Shuko plug may be difficult but I have also seen nails and bolts used as substitute pins !!

Thanks, seems it may be a lot easier than I thought.

Its better to strip the cable the size of the two clamps and clamp them as that. Better to stop the cables from splaying

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But won't the cables splaying create a larger contact area between rod and cable? Why would that be a bad thing?

Sorry, probably stupid questions but I am just trying to learn.

Sophon

It's just a bit more mechanically secure/neater if you have the top clamp and cut ends of the conductors at the same position with the lower clamp just below the top one. The contact area and splaying will still remain pretty much the same.

Incidentally how did you manage to sink the 2.4 m rod into the hard ? ground.

Hi Thomasteve,

I paid around 27,000 THB for 1.25 cubic metres. They told me it was a seasonal promotional rate. I was quite pleased with that rate as I'd been quoted over 40k by some of the other well known companies. I did have a lower quote from a Scandinavian Thai company (the name escapes me) that was based in BKK. Their price was about 23k, I think.

The standard insurance rate from most companies seemed to be 3.5% of declared value. The insurance wasn't very good to be honest as the minimum article value was way above anything I was shipping, so it'll only be useful if the entire shipment is lost.

If you need more specific info I can try and dig it out. Just let me know on here.

Thanks that seems reasonable.

Easy in a word or three

Safe-T-Cut

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Core balance refers to a type of transformer used in an electrical safety device known as a RCD (residual current device).

This switching device very quickly cuts off the supply if there is a fault (imbalance) between the electrical current on the live and neutral supply wires. This happens when the electrical supply goes somewhere unintended, such as through a human body, resulting in electrocution.

In Thailand they are more commonly known by the trade name of a local manufacturer (Safe-t-Cut) and are usually fitted in a small box next to (rather than inside) the main consumer unit ('fusebox') Expect to pay approx. 4 000+ Baht to have one fitted.

Read the pinned threads at the start of this forum to understand more and how to have a safer electrical supply to your home.

That implies 10 000 + people's lives put on hold waiting for a decision, some for nearly 2 years now.

(3134 x 2 + other dependants)

What do they charge approx. for the 1.25 cubic metres door to door ?

If the 10mm was run singularly and not grouped with other circuits (not in parrallel) then a 2.5mm is fine, if it was grouped (run in parrallel) then a 4mm would need to be used.

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thanks, Forky.

BKK ratings for VAF-G http://www.bangkokcable.com/bcc_catalog/backoffice/file_upload/131007_32-300!300V%2070C%20VAF-G%202C.pdf

2.5mm clipped direct 23A

Good points as ambient temperatures in most roof spaces are very high and it's also in conduit so you should derate 2.5sq.mm copper conductors down to possibly under 20 Amps at a guess - without doing the calculation.

Just noticed from Crossy's pdf link though that their sheathed cable should not be installed in conduit (or buried).

I have had 3 sockets installed for the outside utility room, the run actually went over my kitchen , in the ceiling void. Then installed in conduits, it was calculated to use 4mm on a 20A.

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It is best to do 4mm2 for such locations as all 3 sockets could be heavily loaded with washing machines,etc. (and in conduit)

For areas such as bedrooms and living - rooms with light loads and no conduit 2.5 mm2 seems to be in common use, although it could also be attributed to usual cost-cutting.

Incidentally, what is the current :-) recommended size of earth conductors for circuits such as lights, sockets, showers, air-cons ?

Should they now be the same size as L & N or are thinner ones OK as UK used (still do ? ) with their 2.5 T&E cables and larger sizes.

"Thai bashing" post removed, and a response.

The OP took the time to comment on what he conceived to be excellent service by an agent who also posts a lot of free advice on this forum, so please stick to comments on the original post.

Yes indeed all credit and kudos to Tony M of TVE for his frequent free advice and managing to get a response from the Embassy where others seem to fail.

What i would like to know, and what would help future applicants, is if he could give some general advice as to who or how to get answers when they don't respond. Is there some formal route for complaints or is it just a case of being tenacious and knowing who to contact ?

Our correspondence with UKVI is treated in exactly the same way as anyone else's. There is not, as some have suggested, special treatment for visa agents. In fact, visa agents are often treated with some circumspection by the Embassy ( I suppose that could be called "special treatment ). It might be that we know what to say, or how to say it ( and that is why we often offer to assist), in order to get a quicker response, but I really don't know. There is no magic formula.

Thanks for replying.

Perhaps it carries more weight just by sending correspondence that has a letterhead or putting a few MP's names as cc on it even if copies are not actually sent.

BKK ratings for VAF-G http://www.bangkokcable.com/bcc_catalog/backoffice/file_upload/131007_32-300!300V%2070C%20VAF-G%202C.pdf

2.5mm clipped direct 23A

Good points as ambient temperatures in most roof spaces are very high and it's also in conduit so you should derate 2.5sq.mm copper conductors down to possibly under 20 Amps at a guess - without doing the calculation.

Just noticed from Crossy's pdf link though that their sheathed cable should not be installed in conduit (or buried).