coolestuk

I give him 20,000B a month. I have also helped him with lump sums in other ways, but here I am asking about monthly payments. My impression is that this amount is reasonably generous, but I have heard of others who pay more under similar circumstances. What is your experience?

Well, I'm kinda surprised by these amounts of money. About 6 months or so after I met my thai boyfriend 7 years ago, he lost his job and I decided it was going to be an important relationship for me, I asked him how much money he would need to not have to find another job - he said he needed about 3500 baht per month. I subsequently paid for him to go back to university, and that failed, and a few years later I paid for him to do some computer courses. His alternative to not being supported by me was to have a life where he was commuting into bkk from the outskirts, and each night barely getting enough sleep. Now we are living together in the UK, and married, and he works and I no longer support him. Instead he pays his way, but sends most of his monthly salary back home to support his mother and siblings. He spends practically nothing on himself, and when it's a special occasion he buys me very generous gifts. I am not sure our relationship would have survived if he had had to return to work - not because he would have resented me not supporting him, but we simply would have had so few opportunities to keep in touch with each other.

I happened to meet a Registrar socially last week, and she said that it was still all very unclear as to what would actually happen vis a vis partners who are not resident in the UK. She said the only requirement she was aware of was that the two intending to 'marry' had to be resident for 7 days in the UK. I am assuming that there will be some specific kind of visa that will have to be used for the intended to enter the UK.

I would suggest trying the gay.com message board on immigration - there are some extremely well-informed people there (some are lawyers who were involved in many campaigns for people like us). Last time I chedked (a couple of months ago) they also did not know what the conditions would be.

Does anyone know if that registration has to take place in UK or can it be done at UK embassy in Bangkok.

I have been in a LDR (I'm not interested in whether others want to call it a LTR or not - in 3.5 years, we've physically been together about 12 months). My boyfriend and I met in what most people consider to be an unlikely situation for love to blossom (a sauna). And I wasn't looking for a relationship at all (I was a fit man in my 30s, enjoying my sexual freedom). He didn't like white men, but I approached him out of lust for him, and by the time he realised I was white, he felt too horny to back out. For me he was just another handsome man to have some fun with. But I'm considerate, and I could see later that he wanted to spend the rest of the day with me, and that he is quite shy, so I took care of him that day (little did I know that that very day he was falling in love with me). As fate would have it, that night I was attacked and concussed - and it was this man who took care of me for the rest of my time in Thailand. And in that week, I was to see the most amazing acts of love and kindness that I have witnessed in my adult life. And I started to think 'what is the point of going from one man to another - I don't think I could meet anyone better than this man'.

For the first 3 years or our relationship, my government repeatedly refused him even a tourist visa. Meanwhile, after the first year of our LDR I ended up losing my job because of a severe back injury that prevented me working, and sometimes even prevented me visiting him in Thailand (and even when I could fly, it was agony for me, and I would spend most of the flight standing up). When we met, my boyfriend barely even spoke English and was working as a shop assistant - now (after a lot of effort by him and me) he is working as a computer programmer and helping me in my business (a business that I mostly had to build lying flat on my back in bed).

Thankfully, the law has changed in the UK and he and I will be getting 'married' (it is not full marriage) later this year, and he will come to live with me here permanently.

So, if the feelings of the two parties are genuine and they are honest, I don't see any reason why a LDR should not become a succesful permanent relationship. I doubt if there are many relationships that could survive what my boyfriend and I have endured.

I've always enjoyed my visits there. It's a pity it will close. Now I will definitely be staying at the Pathumwan Princess on my future visits.

Give Muang Boran ('the Ancient City') a whirl... it is doable by hiring a taxi for the day (they drive you round - it's quite a big place... can take most of a day). For some reason it is not even on the TAT web site... but it is really great. I've been twice, and after the Grand Palace, it's my favourite tourist place around BKK. I can't remember the entrance price, but it was cheap (maybe 300B per person). I also don't remember how much we paid for the taxi for the day, sorry.

I would tend to agree with IJWT about English proficiency. I've spent quite a lot of time with my boyfriend's siblings... all graduates in their early to late 20s. Each of them can barely speak little English. They may be more proficient than they appear, if we allow for shyness, but even the one who works in an officially English-speaking office is hardly able to keep up a conversation of more than a few minutes duration (my guess is that in that office they only speak English with the foreigners).

But of the young gay men I've met it is a different story. Those who speak proficient English clearly have spent a lot of time mixing with foreigners (from what I can gather about the methods of English teaching and standards of Thai teachers in Thai schools and universities, it is no surprise if most people have poor English). And it was quite significant to me when I met my boyfriend that he spoke so little English. Not that I'm saying the English-speakers are to be avoided - just that I am only ever in Thailand for short periods of time, so I had to look for quite specific and gross signs to indicate what someone's motives for befriending me might be. (I was 100% sure that the 'farmer' I met who who spoke very fluent English and was 'in Bangkok for a few weeks on an annual holiday' from his farm near the border with Laos, was a liar).

It is quite sad that we do have these concerns about the biographies of the men we meet. But given the usual inequalities of wealth, it is no surprise that we are suspicious of their motives. One thing I always do, is to leave plenty of money lying around (I know how much is there). If the conversation with someone I have recently met drifts to his lack of money, or if some money is taken, it is a clear sign that money is going to be an issue, and I politely get rid of him. I would prefer to have a couple of thousand baht stolen from me in the first day or two, than spend a week with someone who was just with me waiting for an opportunity to get money out of me subtly. I value my time and honesty more than I value the money!

My boyfriend never asks for money, and he uses his money wisely. I've supported him generously for most of our relationship, and when I'm in Thailand he just draws money out of our bank account and pays for everything. I'm sure if left to my own devices I would spend more by myself than he spends on both of us.

Here's a few more details about how my relationship began and how my boyfriend won my heart...

The night after I first met him I was attacked by an over-zealous thai guy - this man introduced himself to me both nights by grabbing my balls in a bar, when I pushed him away on the second night he cracked my head open with a bottle, leaving me with 6 stitches, a night in the hospital and the police station, 3 months of concussion and bills for MRI scans and X-rays...

The next day the man who was to become my boyfriend phoned, but I was in no mood to see anyone and just wanted to cut my holiday short (I couldn't go home because every time I stood up or moved I either collapsed or vomited). I couldn't explain to him on the phone what had happened, so I arranged for him to come to my hotel so I could get rid of him and plan how to get home. Well, he was so shocked by what had happened to me, he stayed with me for 1 week and took amazing care of me until I could go home. For example, every time I would wake up in the night to go to the bathroom he was out of the other bed in 2 seconds and by my side... I assumed he was an insomniac, but it was still nice of him to make sure I didn't fall over. I was quite young and fit (in my 30s) and have never relied on anyone for anything, but it was nice in a time of need to have someone there.

I didn't believe that he could really be so caring.. I thought it was a front. But I had to be sure.. if this man was really so lovely, I couldn't give up this chance. So I returned to Thailand a few months later and spent a few more weeks with him.... And I found out that he is the opposite of an insomniac and can sleep anywhere, and long and deep, so it was even more amazing to me that he had basically gone without sleep for that week that he took care of me.

And even now, 3 years later he is still caring to a degree I have almost never witnessed before in my life (except for one old straight couple who have doted on each other for the last 50 years)...

I wish everyone could have someone like him to take care of them.

To me infedility is not about what one does with one's bodily organs, it is about breaches of  trust and truthfulness. 

I think for Thais it's almost the reverse!

I am inclined to agree with you.

My last Thai bf never asked me for anything, either- that's because (as I later found) he had 2-3 other guys supporting him already and I was the "real boyfriend!"

I'm glad to say that I don't think he has other men on the side. Of course, he might well be seeing other men for sex while I'm not in Thailand (I can only spend a few months a year there). But that is not the issue for me - I told him he's free to do that, I just don't want him to lie to me if he does go to look for sex. To me infedility is not about what one does with one's bodily organs, it is about breaches of trust and truthfulness.

On several occasions I have been able to spend 1 to 4 months with him. Apart from the time I caught him out lying during one of those visits, on the other visits he everything looked good - he does not get many phone calls (and those he does get are all in Thai), he does not recieve letters or parcels from abroad. I'm sometimes left alone in his apartment for full-length days - if there was any sign that he had more than a brief sexual encounter with someone else, I would have seen it.

Readytogo: I'm not saying that saunas are the only place to go. I'm just saying that you can meet Thai men of a calibre equal to anyone in the west, even in a place like that. However, if you don't like gay bars or saunas, then I think you have limited options in meeting gay men in Thailand - you could just try to catch someone's eye in the street (but you've no guarantee he isn't just looking at you as a foreigner). Or you could use the internet. But I have known some Thai men who meet westerners via the internet - they would go in a small group to an internet cafe and work in a coordinated fashion on the western men they were chatting to. I would trust someone in Thailand encountered via the internet least of all. These guys didn't try to rip me off but I just found that kind of behaviour deceitful and manipulative (mind you, the western man I once saw them with behaved far worse).

Maybe the suggestion of the more 'upmarket' activities will suit you - it wouldn't suit me. The very rich Thai boyfriend I once had was not only money-grabbing but emotionally stunted.

"a word to the wise".... well, we aren't all as green as you might think :-)

I've had plenty of relationships (and flings), with white men in Europe, asians in Europe and Thais in Thailand. And I've caught most of them out lying. And I extend my generosity to many people: I have supported a Spanish boyfriend in the UK when he was out of work for a year. But it was the asians in Europe who expected money from me (one of them came from a mult-million dollar family). My boyfriend in Thailand has never, ever asked me for anything.

I'm sure you are just trying to prevent some true greenhorn from making a terrible mistake. But the truth of the matter is this: the only way to really know someone is to spend time with them (and even if we live with someone, it doesn't really guarantee anything - it is estimated that something like 10% of fathers are not biologically related to some of their children, unbeknownst to them). By nature, I am probably more suspicious than most people (and probably more devious - that is how I have been able to trip up many liars here and in Thailand). Of course I found my Thai boyfriend lying to me (why should he be different from the Europeans). I gave European boyfriends a second chance (I am still very close friends with one, 20 years after our relationship ended), and I gave my Thai boyfriend a second chance.

Well, first ... forget what you think about your age. My boyfriend is 12 years younger than me (I'm 42). Not just that ... he is very handsome, very loving, very muscular... And he says I'm really a bit too young for him - I've met one of his ex-boyfriends (a Thai), who is in his early 50s.

I know for sure my boyfriend was not a bar boy, and has little experience on the gay scene. I met him on my 2nd two-week holiday in BKK. He didn't know his way round the gay bars, had never even been to somewhere like DJ Station, and he spoke almost no English,

When I met him he didn't even like white men (I'm very white) - in fact, he is quite embarrassed to recall how he would loudly state to his friends how disgustingly ugly and smelly he thought white men were. (As lovely and shy as as he is, he is given to the most extraordinary outbursts of hostility to certain groups of people - I'm glad of this bad feature, because otherwise he would be too close to perfect).

We met in the most unlikely place - Babylon. It was his first trip there, although he had been to many other gay saunas. And although I was captivated by him from the first minute I saw him, once I realised he didn't speak much English, I didn't think there was going to be much more to our encounter. Anyway, we saw each other over the rest of my holiday, and I started to see how lovely he was beyond his handsome features and muscles... but I would not let myself believe it. I certainly did not want a boyfriend in Thailand. When I returned home, he wanted to visit me, but I was reluctant to invite him here, since we had only spent 1 week together. I went back to Thailand for another 2 week holiday a few months later, to see if he was really as lovely as I thought. He was. (I've been trying to get him a visa to the UK for over 2 years now... but that's another story).

When I first visited Babylon, I had disbelieved any claims that a sauna could be a pleasant environment (at the most simple level, it is just like a holiday complex). Well, in my two visits to Thailand I went there many times - I met lots of very nice men there (several of whom, to my surprise, used to buy me drinks and food). I've only once been to a Patpong bar (with my boyfriend and a visiting friend). I found the experience a lot less pleasant than Babylon.

Just my 2c

Hi Chris, I know it is a long time since you posted. Hope things are going well.

Just to say, I've had a Thai boyfriend for almost 3 years, but we live apart because my govt. won't give him a visa to visit me, and I have a business in the UK that I can't leave. I have visited him for 7 months in the last 3 years. It's hard, but we are committed to each other.

When I first met him he spoke no English, and I never expected a relationship to develop. He is about 10 years younger than me (he's 30). I'm surprised by how few cultural differences there have been (especially considering I was the first foreigner he ever met). He never asks for money, but of course we share what we have, and he never wastes money (he always tries to stop me wasting money). He never asks for anything for his family.

I guess the major differences are that he is not really able to be 'up front', combative, assertive. Mostly I am able to work round this, as I am one of the most sensitive people I know (sorry if that sounds conceited - but I am very well-attuned to the people around me). His unassertiveness is not just with regard to me: I see it in his dealings with other Thais, with whom he can be very angry, but he is incapable of expressing this to them (thankfully he is very happy if I complain about something).

His unassertiveness has had ramifications in our relationship, when he has done things that are against the ground rules of our relationship and against his own code of conduct, but he is unable to own up to such things either unprompted or when found out. In one sense, this can just look like duplicity, and I am profoundly affected by deceitfulness, so this has been a major stumbling block for us. I do not think that western expectations of expressions of wrong-doing make any sense to him: Washingon's admission that he was he who chopped down the tree is an alien concept. (I hesitate to say that he is typical of Thai people - I just don't have the same degree of familiarity with other Thais or Thailand).

I think after the major problems we went through over this (which left both of us miserable and hurting for 6 months), we came through it. I see his character is such that he is (quite) unlikely to be able to confess to something he did wrong (I'm not sure he even knows the word or concept 'confess' - which is weird to a Catholic like me). But I also think he knows me and himself well enough to keep himself away from situations where he might do something that he and I would regard as wrong if that thing is something that I have told him I want to know about should it occur.

In my experience, there are not many differences between us, and the one I highlight has been our only source of conflict, and has not been an issue again since it was put to rest 1 year ago. If you are still reading this thread, I hope that this is of some help to you.

Thank you for your advice, George.

But I am not going on business.  Rather, I am going there to live with my boyfriend until we can accumulate the necessary 2 years of cohabitation, so that he can then get a visa to enter the UK as my partner.

In the light of this, do you know if the ordinary multiple-entry visa will permit me to visit for 3 months (and make one or two external trips and re-enter within that 3 months).  And I believe that the multiple-entry tourist visa is valid for 6 months, but I am not clear if that means 6 consecutive months, 6 months from issuance, or 6 months total stay in Thailand.

Any help appreciated.

I hope it is ok to ask (I've looked through the back threads, and can't find a message that answers this question)....

I want to visit Thailand for 6 months of each year for the forseeable future - probably in two 3 month blocks over the year.

I live in London.  Would it be best to get a multiple entry visa from here?  Can I get one multiple entry visa that would cover two 3 month stays (plus external trips) that is valid for 12 months?  Or would I need to get a new multiple entry visa for each 3 month trip?