laolover88

I can only assume if one takes their children to be bought up in the the UK one has limited resources and has "no other choice".

Why on earth would you 'assume' such a thing? There is not a lot cheaper in Thailand than the UK/France: Gas/Water? Gas in Europe is now c.55B a litre. However there are some clearly greater expenses: Taxes on property-Thais are amazed we have to pay 6000B a month tax on an empty house. Electric is more expensive than aircon, however you look at it. For the most part good quality food is cheaper in the UK and France, as are clothes. Wine, of course, is cheaper. Travel is stupidly expensive. 2 tickets CNX to BKK on Air Aia to be had at 1000B.each 800 km. i hour 2 tickets on the train to London 3000B each 400km. + 80km to the station. 4 hours. However, too, the kids don't have to buy a different uniform for every day of the week. If we had to pay housing costs then UK/France would be double the cost so :"no other choice?" I think not

Been talking, since we came,to the children about "how it is?"

Main observations:

1. How relaxed and orderly and clean life is in France by comparison with LOS.

2. People entirely tolerant of, to the point of disinterest, as to who we are ethnically. We are just us!

3. Everything works and does not break

Might be a bit different, maybe, if we did not speak the language?

PS Thainess and colonisation. The wikipedia entry on"Thainess" summarises it! In the case of Thailand, of course, never mind being not colonised in the traditional sense by a European power (Thailand was negotiated as a buffer state between France and the UK), it was the Thai who were colonisers.

For us the interesting question is why Thais are so insecure and defensive/aggressive about Thailand. It was like so many people had their arrns folded all the time in front of them in defence.

Well, we are off on Sunday! Thanks to everyone for some great, honest and thoughtful comments. I am very fond of Thailand. I would not have lived here so many years, otherwise. Many of the problems that posters like Spidermike detail can be found in many places. And I, too, could compile a long list of positives.I think that what both I and the children have found increasingly difficult is actually Thainess. I see no problem in being proud of one's country; but not to the extent that no other culture is of any value and the possibility of diversity and dissent from Thainess is denied. Huge numbers of people living here are not even "Tai" at all!

Good Wishes!

Op has a couple of strange comments:

I am the one who control what they order anyway

and this

I also often see Thai going to restaurant, ordering 1 dish, eating 3 spoons and leaving,

I can barely think of an occasion in decades where I have seen that.

and as for controlling what people order; the only time I do that is if I was the one who cooked the food!

Of course here is different from western countries in several notable ways.

Thais have a quite rigid attitude to their regimen. 3 meals a day should be eaten. The requirements of work mean that people sit down, on their own to eat rice soup or whatever for breakfast, or they order something like Moo Ping to take away. Not many people sitting at restaurants at 06.00.

Lunch should be eaten at 12. The pattern of eating is different. Many workers, again, eat on their own or with office colleagues. Some attention should be paid to the size of dishes like Duck Noodles or Kao Ka Moo. The are very carefully calibrated to be sufficient. If a noodle shop holder thinks they can enlarge the portion at a profit that is done. While you see people eat together there are not many "lunch parties". The evening is again different people go out to eat together and everyone has a menu and order what they want,especially with consultation all round. If we eat together as a family, I pay. If however my friends or my wife's friends come they invariably contribute generously. The only exception would be if we actually formally invited some people to join us.

I have barely ever seen anything wasted. If it is no good, you don't eat it, even send it back. It can go home. If something got ordered that one person does not like, there will be someone else to eat it! And if there is not enough:order more.

I find the whole process civilized and relaxing. Even in expensive restaurants I don't see people fretting over a menu like in Europe; nor fretting about :"Eat it up".

Many interesting views about women. What about Thai men? If you don't have a view I wonder what your g/f or Mrs might say?

It is a standard computer generated email. I think it means that all is OK, but you won't know until she has the passport with the visa!

It is not a new requirement. Just another offensive measure that has been pushed into the limelight. You poll up with your wife at Immigration and they want "proof" that you re still married! A very large number of our Thai friends are not married in the Amphur, though they were in the temple. Anyway they should be able to discover/prove instantly from your wife's ID card her marital status.

There will be a few "footnotes" I have absolutely no regrets; though it is hard to give up on something, some place one has come to love over the years. I feel one has to be excited by the future as well as comfortable with past decisions. I am not prepared for the children to experience what might happen. If nothing happens? So what? We can come back!!

If the paperwork is in order and all the documentation available all should be well. Plenty of Thais without farang husbands/boyfriends go to Europe every day. The central thing is to make it 100% clear, with evidence, that she will leave the UK and return to Thailand. Never mind who does the paperwork!

If he has valid, current UK and Thai passports he needs no visas. Aged 11 he should have a Thai ID card.

So!!

We are pretty much done here!

Houses and Cars mothballed

Thank you to all you guys and everyone for comments! Digital Nomads can obviously read TV anywhere!

Air France to Paris and Nice. It is almost as much of an adventure as coming to Thailand decades ago.

Will keep in touch! Please do the same. So much we will miss; but so much to look forward to, particularly for the children. Wish all members well!

In the West there is a wonderful haze of love and marriage. I fear many non-Thais enter the emotional playground of the realities of Thai "marital" relationships with foreigners without a clue what they are encountering! Same with foreigners! I find many of what I think the "normal" emotions like boredom, vanity, jealousy, anger, pleasure, covetousness, desire, self centredness, intuition, empathy either repressed or exaggerated. We have survived 20 years of marriage, for which I am more than grateful; but while it has been a meeting of true minds (and wallets) I am never sure if the meeting of true hearts was ever possible. Whatever better than Europe!!

But he is looking for an extension based on dependency, not marriage. Or have I got this all wrong?

Well if it "flew off" you have done fantastically. Hope it does not appear in Chatuchak on Saturday. Can't believe the wild birds on offer there.

​I should try and elaborate a bit!. I believe my wife does love me and loves the children. But her love is circumscribed by her family: mother, father elder brother her love for whom is based more on duty than spontaneous emotion. Her love for the children is constrained by her determination to control them otherwise they will not learn to became good Thais and a requirement that they are subservient to her. I raise the children in a "European" way and she says that is not helping them to be "strong"! We used to have squabbles about the fact that I picked them up too much. And, of course, she subscribes to the simple belief that a husband looks after his wife economically and that is the basis of love. Marriage has been looked at as an economic or political arrangement for centuries in many places, so you can't complain about that. What I have found slightly unsettling over a couple of decades, and not just in my family, is the sense that personal relationships mirror that patronage/patronized relationship in the wider society.

Realised I cannot spell actually!!

A zillion words of nonsense have been written about Love. In daily life it pretty much comes down to a reciprocal interpersonal care, interest and concern for each other.

Obviously things like trust and honesty, sensitivity and awareness of feelings, an ability to talk about anything, disagreements without rancor, sex, children, economic mutuality and so on come into it. In the "West" most of this is centered on the couple. In Thailand you have to take into account both the close and extended family, many of whom expect an unconditional love and respect which extends far beyond their childrens' marriage.I have said I think my wife both passionate and violent but these attributes extend to her behavior with the whole extended family.Her obligation to love her family has been ingrained from birth. Because Thais are Thais I am not "her family", in spite of the years and children. In Europe she would be (and is) constrained by a set of acceptable behavior. Not so here! I am often reminded of the phrase "running amok"!!

It seems to me women here are so repressed and insecure while men are spoiled brats. Not a bash! But in my view not a good basis for "Love"..Attempts to understand! Views please!!

Clause 2.18 of the police order only states the extension is based upon being the parent of a Thai. There is no mention the child needs to be living with the parent. Also the order that covers documents required does not mention proof of custody of the child. Just a birth certificate to prove the relationship and legitimization documents.

Some immigration offices and/or officers are way over the top with some of their requirements to get the extension,

Exactly. Get it written down.

^{This thread runs and runs. Why? My Mrs, who is of course Thai, reckons she could solve the problem in 5 minutes at Immigration.}

I am a very pedantic man. Immigration need to WRITE down what they want, when and why. They won't like it; but you have reached a stage where one person says this and another that is useless. You must go as high up as you need to get a clear "specification" of requirements.!!

Those cheating students!

Perhaps they meant banned from life?

Have you ever been "banned"? In Thailand or elsewhere?

I have been expelled from school, I guess that's a ban?! Banned from the University Library, Banned from my g/fs bedroom and her parents' house, Banned from this forum!, Banned from driving, Banned from the Leisure Centre, Banned from endless bars and restaurants due to complaints and "unseemly" behavior, Banned from the house by the wife, Banned from the childrens' school premises, Banned from trespassing, Banned from having a gun, Banned from the SCR (inappropriate dress),Banned from getting on a plane to the US, Strangely, never yet been banned from Thailand; oh banned, of course from owning land!

Mods could, of course, move to "Fun" if they wanted!!

I don't like facebook/social media etc. Children said to me: (I don't have facebook/line/twitter/linked in etc accounts) "After years of your marriage there is not one photo of you on Mummy's facebook, but about a million of her!" Wasn't really surprised!. Should I have a facebook page?

This was all really prompted by a a birthday party where a dozen teenage girls could not get their noses out of their ipads and phones. As some of you know our children have gone to France. My wife was quizzing them on the different life they are starting to have there. Their view is that the teenage Thai girls they were at school with were totally narcissistic airheads, obsessed with Korean boys and selfies. I dunno!!

We still don't know the reason for their request that she be present, if there was one. I can't find any "regulation" or "stipulation" or law that requires her to be present. I'm not a lawyer, of course!

I am old enough to dislike "Selfies" Oddly my children think they are stupid, too. But I wonder. Are Thais any more obsessed with themselves and their looks than other people? I don't see the same self obsession and the photographing of the self in France and the UK. I know the "presentation of self" is important in Thailand, particularly for women. Seems to me a bit "over"! What do you think?

This all has its funny sides and downsides. Here daily life goes on. The government functions where it has to, vast amounts of food are made and eaten; the river appears still full of fish in spite of the dams; there are crowds of Thai tourists. My wife says: What if the drug trade dries up or moves away? What if there is a China water problem? What if there is colour shirted turmoil\? Do you think what happened in Cambodia could not happen here? I know it sounds alarmist; but we have young children. I would probably take the risk having lived here for so long. It may all blow over or it may all blow up. I am not prepared to put them at risk. If it all works out they can come back; and who's to say where in the world might be "safer", whatever that means. We are not rich but they do have to be educated and make their lives. I don't think France is ideal nor the UK. And I would go no-where near the US. There is a lot of tosh on a Microsoft website about "education" changing the world. What changes the world for one person is having the skills to perform in an occupation and earn a living. Education may contribute to that. But you only have to watch Thai TV to see how those much valued transferable skills/communication skills/team working expertises etc.etc are singularly lacking in the Thai so called elite. Add to that being a luk kreung and your only route to success really is a foreign education and self employment..