qualigenz

The title from Of Mice and Men comes from the poem "To A Mouse" by Robert Burns (click for full text). The poem is in Scots, and the line originally goes:

The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft agley

This is often paraphrased/translated as:

The best-laid plans of mice and men / Often go awry

Now we'll see what we can do about the Thai...

Can it be "คนคำนวณ มิสู้ฟ้าลิขิต" ?

What exactly is the phrase "All the plan of mice and men go oft awry" ?

Does anybody know the equivalent phrase in Thai?

Unless you live in the south Samran, southerners are quite capable of rolling their "r"s and do so quite clearly. Your "l" sound will mark you out as an uppity city person

I am from the south and not a poor educated, but I cann't make that rolling as well. I guess it is inherited from my teacher My son does it very well and he laugh at me when I try to do it right. I believe that if you try to force it, your tongue will get twist in higher degree. So, I let it be.

I do agree that is probably the best way for a native speaker as a native language. Native speakers have their parents reading with them all the time and when they read they usually know alot more words than someone who is starting out from scratch. If the farang has someone who can spend alot of time each day reading and reading until it is remembered than I am sure it is a good method, but for those who are learning from a basic level, than I think it is important to learn the vowel sounds and that way from day dot, they know what each sound is. Then after alot of reading practice they wont see the vowels either, it will be as common as it is for a native speaker.

In The Rai!

Agree here. Maybe the way we learn a language as the first language and as a second language does not go the same path. Kid's brain is almost empty and can be quickly memorize pattern. Adults need to learn it in more systematically way.

Word of the day "ช้างสาร" (chang sarn or Xangsane)

ช้างสาร (in Thai) or ซ้างสาน (in Laos) = Elephant. The recent Typhoon was named with this word to reflect the power of the elephant.

Typhoon Xangsane brought heavy rain to many parts of the country yesterday. (the Nation)

ไต้ฝุ่นช้างสารได้ก่อให้เกิดฝนตกหนักทั่วทุกภาคของประเทศเมื่อวานนี้

Other words in the sentence:

Typhoon = ไต้ฝุ่น

heavy rain = ฝนตกหนัก

yesterday = เมื่อวานนี้

I recommend this book:

อ่านอย่างอัจฉริยะ ชั้น ป.1 เล่ม 1

and

อ่านอย่างอัจฉริยะ ชั้น ป.1 เล่ม 2

Written by Dr. กร่าง ไพรวรรณ

only 44 บาท at CU Book Center (Near Siam Square)

I used this book to teach my son and he managed to read before entering school (at 3 year old)

The first book seperates words within the sentence and uses colorlized text so that you don't need to parse the sentence (which is not easy for non-native). On the second book, you should be able to read the complete sentence by yourselve. Get a kid to read it for you several times and you read along. Try to read it in front of a kid and let him correct it for you.

This is the best book I have seen. You can order online also at:

Click here to see this book at CU Book Center

Or go to Chulalongkon University's book center at Siam Square to get your copy.

PS. My son can read before knowing vowels. He knew only the 44 alphabets. So, I think vowels are not much neccessary. Just do the 44 alphabets and skip to read the sentence. It's more natural. Even for Thai adults, we don't actually see the vowels when reading, we just read using context and pattern reconnition. Only for some rare words that need spelling and then vowels will come to play.

What do you think the term "ชวด" is translated from (clue: IT related term)

I think this is the best and the Royal Institute should consider to adopt this term.

As the dictionary gives ชวด as "rat", I reckon it's got to be "mouse" in an IT sense ?

Yes, you are correct.

ชวด is the first year in Thai & Chinese astrology year

1) ชวด-หนู (Rat)

2) ฉลู-วัว (Ox)

3) ขาล-เสือ (Tiger)

4) เถาะ-กระต่าย (Rabbit)

5) มะโรง-งูใหญ่ (Dragon)

6) มะเส็ง-งูเล็ก (Snake)

7) มะเมีย-ม้า (Horse)

8) มะแม-แพะ (Goat)

9) วอก-ลิง (Monkey)

10) ระกา-ไก่ (Rooster)

11) จอ-สุนัข (Dog)

12) กุล-หมู (Pig)

So, ชวด is actually "Mouse"

I really hope the Royal Institute will adopt this one.

ชวด means to fail in Thai (I think it is spelt like this) maybe talking about a connection failed.

Just a guess

I dont understand

4) ไปรษณีย์ถล่ม - ไปรษณีย์ = mail, ถล่ม = attack (by bomb) - ไปรษณีย์ถล่ม = Mail-bomb

ไปรษณีย์ = mail correct but I thought ถล่ม = collapse or fall down not (attack by bomb)

ระเบิด = bomb

Shouldnt it be ไปรษณีย์ระเบิด

Just out of curiosity

In The Rai!

One interpretation of "ชวด" is "fail" or "miss" Ex. "ฉันชวดไปเที่ยว = I missed that trip"

But it has another meaning.

"ถล่ม" is frequently used with bomb Ex. ถล่มด้วยระเบิด = attack with bomb

In this case, those kids are using it in the sense "ถล่มด้วยระเบิดไปรษณีย์"

Don't be too serious, these terms are just from Thai kids.

Ah, VisualBasic... that makes more sense. I was sure about the others, but Outlook was kind of a stab in the dark. And I doubt the Royal Institute will accept those terms because they're proper names, which tend to just get transliterated. Like, Pizza Hut isn't called กระท่อมพิซซ่า in Thailand.

Okay, now my guesses for the new ones:

1) สรรค์ใน = interior design

2) ยืนเอกา = standalone

3) แท่งภาระ = taskbar

4) ไปรษณีย์ถล่ม = email worm (?), mail that attacks your computer?

5) บัญชรผลุบโผล่ = minimize/maximize window (?) ... I'm not sure about this, because I think ผลุบโผล่ means to bob up and down..

Okay, เฉลยได้แล้ว

These are quite tough!

1) สรรค์ใน - สรรค์ = สร้าง (Build) ใน = in สรรค์ใน = Built-in

2) ยืนเอกา = standalone - Correct!

3) แท่งภาระ = taskbar - Correct!

4) ไปรษณีย์ถล่ม - ไปรษณีย์ = mail, ถล่ม = attack (by bomb) - ไปรษณีย์ถล่ม = Mail-bomb

5) บัญชรผลุบโผล่ - บัญชร = window, ผลุบโผล่ = pop-up, บัญชรผลุบโผล่ = pop-up windows (Royal Institute :หน้าต่างแบบผุดขึ้น)

Two out of five, very good. For Thai people I know, none of them can answer a single term of these.

And the last one

What do you think the term "ชวด" is translated from (clue: IT related term)

I think this is the best and the Royal Institute should consider to adopt this term.

Here are my guesses:

1) Powerpoint (จุด = point, อิทธิฤทิ์ = power)

2) Lotus Notes (พหุ = plural อุบล = lotus จารึก = note/write)

3) Excel (ภัทร = good/excellent/prosperous)

4) Outlook (ปฐม = first/beginning, พิศ = look

YES! The first three are correct.

The last one "ปฐมพิศ" is actually from visualbasic ( ปฐม = พื้นฐาน หรือ basic , พิศ = การมอง or visual )

But I agree with your that it can be translated to Outlook also.

Do you think the Royal Institute will accept these terms? I think ปฐมพิศ (Visual Basic or Outlook) and ภัทร (Excel) are quite good.

BTW, your Thai language skill is even better than most Thai.

So, these terms should also not too hard for you then.

1) สรรค์ใน

2) ยืนเอกา

3) แท่งภาระ

4) ไปรษณีย์ถล่ม

5) บัญชรผลุบโผล่

แท่งหรรษา seeems to be to easy for you.

How'bout this one.

จิ๋วระทวย

You can ask your Thai friends if they know this one.

ทวย is tired

so

Is จิ๋ว a persons name?

so it could be..

จิ๋วระทวย Jiew is tired?

Again, that is all I can make of it?

I have never heard of it before like this just ทวย as tired.

In The Rai!

Your Thai language is quite good.

ระทวย = tired, weak, soft

จิ๋ว = small, tiny (micro)

จิ๋วระทวย = Microsoft

OK, to test your Thai Language proficiency, now come the same set defined by Thai teenagers. Try guessing what these terms are: #2 is the easiest of all.

1) จุดอิทธิฤทธิ์

2) พหุอุบลจารึก

3) ภัทร

4) ปฐมพิศ

แท่งหรรษา seeems to be to easy for you.

How'bout this one.

จิ๋วระทวย

You can ask your Thai friends if they know this one.

A teacher walked into a Computer class and tell her student to turn on the computer, move the mouse and use the joystick can be translated to:

"เอ้า นักเรียนเปิด คณิตกรณ์ ขยับแท่งล่อเป้า เขย่าแท่งหรรษา เร้วๆ"

I've heard this one, so here's a hint: it's an electronic input device...

Yes, it is "Joystick". This word (แท่งหรรษา) is not defined by the Royal Institute, but people put this word into their mouth. The term accepted by the Royal Institute for Joystick is "ก้านควบคุม" Both terms are not well accepted by Thai speakers, though. People prefer to say "จอยสติ๊ก"

คณิตกรณ์ is the word defined by the King for "Computer". This term is well accepted in academic environement for writing technical paper.

How about these terms:

1) พหุบัญชร

2) กระด้างภัณฑ์

3) ละมุนภัณฑ์

and this one is cool!

4) เครือข่ายใยพิภพ

How about these terms:

1) พหุบัญชร This is a tough one... I know บัญชร is window but not too sure with พหุ

2) กระด้างภัณฑ์ hardware

3) ละมุนภัณฑ์ software

and this one is cool!

4) เครือข่ายใยพิภพ network

Come on you have to make it a little harder than that.. (just joking)

qualigenz could you please clarify what is พหุบัญชร Is it Windows?

In The Rai!

1) "บัญชร" = window. That's correct. พหุ = multi, poly (plural) and that makes พหุบัญชร = Windows. I personally like this one, but nobody really use it.

2) กระด้างภัณฑ์ = hardware

3) ละมุนภัณฑ์ = software

and

4) เครือข่ายใยพิภพ = World Wide Web

World = โลก, พิภพ

Web = ใย

Will come back with the harder one. BTW, please do not use these terms in your official documents. Nobody really use these terms (except เครือข่ายใยพิภพ) The correct terms defined by the Royal Institute are:

Windows = วินโดวส์

Hardware = ส่วนเครื่อง, ฮาร์ดแวร์

Software = ส่วนชุดคำสั่ง, ซอฟต์แวร์

World Wide Web = เวิลด์ไวด์เว็บ, เว็บ

Do not try to use these terms like in this Ads:

แท่งหรรษา ( เหมาะสำหรับทุกเพศทุกวัย )

I've heard this one, so here's a hint: it's an electronic input device...

Yes, it is "Joystick". This word (แท่งหรรษา) is not defined by the Royal Institute, but people put this word into their mouth. The term accepted by the Royal Institute for Joystick is "ก้านควบคุม" Both terms are not well accepted by Thai speakers, though. People prefer to say "จอยสติ๊ก"

คณิตกรณ์ is the word defined by the King for "Computer". This term is well accepted in academic environement for writing technical paper.

How about these terms:

1) พหุบัญชร

2) กระด้างภัณฑ์

3) ละมุนภัณฑ์

and this one is cool!

4) เครือข่ายใยพิภพ

ัศัพท์บัญญัติ puzzle of the day: For those who like a challenge, here's a proposed coined term that someone from the Royal Institute told me they were having trouble getting to catch on. Apparently it's too opaque for most Thais' taste. อสมพาล [อะ-สะ-มะ-พาน].

See if you can figure out which English word it's meant to correspond with. The professor who told it to me asked me the same question. Of course, I was on the spot and couldn't figure it out. Y'all have the leisure of dictionaries and thinking about it. Have fun...

Speaking of the Royal Institute, try guessing what "แท่งหรรษา" is.

This one is not actually defined by Royin but people make joke on the Royal Institute.

but I think พึงพอใจ would change the sense of the sentence and be translated accurately as "Thai people ought to agree with this Coup" ?

Patrick

I don't agree on this.

Both "พึงพอใจ" and "พอใจ" as in "ประชาชนรู้สึกพึงพอใจในการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้มาก" are exactly the same (at least for me). "พึงพอใจ" is a little more formal, though.

The word "พึง" in other case like "พึงไป", "พึงสังวรณ์", พึงระมัดระวัง", "พึงชัง" is interpreted as ought ; should ; must etc. as Patrick said.

However, I don't know the rule behind this. Need a professor to clarify this.

Here's a question, qualigenz:

Other than your native intuitions, do you know of any evidence for one analysis over the other, as to whether พอใจ is shortened from พึงพอใจ, rather than that พึงพอใจ is an "elaborate" version of พอใจ?

You are right, it could be the later case. See this link -> About Satisfaction (Need PDF reader)

Can anyone offer a Thai equivalent for the American phrase "nickel and dimed (to death)", as in "seemingly hidden ongoing expenses which, over time, add up to a large expense"? Thanks!

ทีละเล็กทีละน้อย (doing things)

เก็บเล็กผสมน้อย (saving money)

กินเล็กกินน้อย (corruption)

I think "พอใจ" which is mapped to "satisfied" is a shorten form of "พึงพอใจ"

Such as "ประชาชนรู้สึกพึงพอใจในการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้มาก". It is the same as ""ประชาชนรู้สึกพอใจในการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้มาก"

2) ผมพอใจที่จะทำอย่างนี้ = I am "willing" to do this.

3) คนไทยรู้สึกพอใจกับการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้เป็นอย่างมาก = Thai people fully "agree with" this coup.

If you wish to express "happiness" or "delight" then better to use ดีใจ.

To hopefully clarify even further, to express "just sufficient" one would say พอดี

Patrick

Patrick,

I would translate "I am willing to do this" to "ผมยินดีที่จะทำอย่างนี้"

What would you say "ผมพอใจจะทำอย่างนี้ ใครจะทำไม" in English?

I came across the word ต่ำช้า / Dtamcha during my Thai lessons yesterday, however my teacher was unable to give me a satisfactory definition.

My understanding is that the word is derogatory, and is used to describe a person as common or of a low caste, am I right or can some one please shed more light.

Many thanks

ต่ำช้า = gross

My English vocab is limited, may be some other word can better describe.

I don't have a source for this, but สมมาตร looks like a ศัพท์บัญญัติ (coined term).

สม "same" corresponds to sym- and มาตร "measure" to -metry. Having the same measure, proportionate.

----

ัศัพท์บัญญัติ puzzle of the day: For those who like a challenge, here's a proposed coined term that someone from the Royal Institute told me they were having trouble getting to catch on. Apparently it's too opaque for most Thais' taste. อสมพาล [อะ-สะ-มะ-พาน].

See if you can figure out which English word it's meant to correspond with. The professor who told it to me asked me the same question. Of course, I was on the spot and couldn't figure it out. Y'all have the leisure of dictionaries and thinking about it. Have fun...

I am a Thai but I admit that never heard of "อสมพาล". Are you sure it's not "อสมวาร (asynchronous)?

Terms with 'อสม-' from the Royal Institute that I know are:

asymmetry = อสมมาตร

anisometric = อสมมิติ

asynchronous = อสมวาร

inequality = อสมการ

Is this "อสมพาล" the new term?

The problem with terms proposed by the Royal Institute is that they try to use Pali/Sanskrit and so those terms sound "too formal" for Thai speakers. I suggest that they open a blog or webboard and let Thai Teenager help defining those terms for them. It will be quick and well accepted like the word "จ๊าบ"

Por Jai can be used in several similar context:

1) ผมรู้สึกพอใจกับงานนี้มาก = I am very "satisfied" with this job.

2) ผมพอใจที่จะทำอย่างนี้ = It's my "desire" to do so.

3) คนไทยรู้สึกพอใจกับการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้เป็นอย่างมาก = Thai people are very "happy" with this coup.

To translate "พอใจ" as "desire' (as in 2 above) is definitely wrong.

The other 2 examples are somewhat marginal interpretations in my opinion.

Generally "พอใจ" would be translated as "content" which may in some contexts equate with "satisfied" but I don't think it can ever be construed as "happy".

Patrick

Thank you Khun p_brownstone,

No. 2) is my interpretation based on the feeling when I use the word "พอใจ" as in "ผมพอใจที่จะทำอย่างนี้ (ใครจะทำไม)"

No. 3) is also my interpretation based on my feeling when saying "คนไทยรู้สึกพอใจกับการปฎิวัติครั้งนี้เป็นอย่างมาก " It really means "happy" not just "satisfied".

Checking with Longdo (Longdo ), among definition of "พอใจ" are "Delight", "glad".

May be "delight", "glad", and "happy" are different level of expression for English speakers.

I either heard or read this somewhere recently, and cannot for the life of me remember where. But the phrase was "Waen Kham": เวร กรรม which I interpret as "Karma turns", similar to "Som nam naa" - serves you right.

Can someone confirm this, and would it be OK to use in place of "Som nam naa"?

Edit:

What a wally! Sorry - it was on this very forum that I saw it! Stupid boy! Please ignore the above!

If only I could find some red-faced smileys...

เวรกรรม as a noun = retribution (you pay for what you did, either in this life or your next life)

เวรกรรม as an interjection is something like "alas" to express of sorrow, pity (either to self or another person)