greenwanderer108

following was copied from msn conversation inquiring about prices for Joe Louis theatre for Ramakien puppet show....

so foreigners adult 900 children 300

thai adult 400 (or with id card real one of course) children 200

children who can sit on parent's lap free

if the height is not over 120 cms. free

if the height is more than 120 cms. pay in children rate

...well, it seems that Guesthouse's cool site that I remembered from years ago is not active anymore...but I still think we ought to keep the movement alive starting by keeping this thread alive or even starting a new thread (ideally pinned) listing and updating the double standard racist places to atleast keep them accountable that what they do IS not taken with a grain of salt... (Yes I'm Thai and American citizen, but for the love of the motherland, Thailand, such practices IS NO good in my book and still sickens me even if I can pay the Thai price!)

Note that the girl I was chatting with was an educated (Chula) travelled (USA and NZ I think among others) who works for the Joe Louis, but in her initial opinion, she felt her company was justified as 'Thai people pay tax, foreigners don't' though I assured her that foreigners get taxed in other ways already i.e. airport tax, but that was beyond the point, especially in this case where Thai children are still charged less than foreigner children--for certainly children aren't paying any taxes.

My hope is for all my Thai comrades to accept a world view, and jump out of this WWII nationalistic era, record a new version of the national anthem, tell the bus drivers and school teachers they don't have to dress like axis and allies generals, etc. etc.

My sister and family will be visiting Thailand for the first time at the end of December and one of the things on their Bangkok itinerary is to visit some temples. I've lived in Thailand for some 5 years and have never toured the major temples. Well, I think I went to Wat Pra Kaew or something but I remember some tourist charge which disgusted me. I want to make it a point to avoid any such places if I can avoid so.

So, ideally in central/old Bkk-Thonburi.

Cheers!

The child born to a foreign father has the choice of renouncing their citizenship between the ages of 20 and 21. Note though, it is an option only. If they do not make a choice, there is no penalty and they can continue on with their dual nationaity, as I have.

This is how I initially understood the law from reading the English summary of the Thai nationality act as can be seen from here.

However, when I tried to prove my point to another Thai girl but finding the detailed Thai version of the nationality act, now I'm not so sure. Please see # 21 (มาตรา 21) of the page detailing the cases where one can lose Thai nationality.

Perhaps my Thai interpretation is off for the moment, but according to this detail, Someone who has the right of 'another' nationality through their father, and receives any document giving them 'identity' of another country, will simply lose their Thai nationality. This is a shock as I have only seen this with my own eyes just now despite being through the actual system in and out with no threat of losing either nationality! So please find errors in my interpretation and lack of context or something other missing in this detailed Thai law as last updated by his majesty 15 years ago to ease my mind.

I wish you had this thought/idea one month ago as I was looking to drive from Samut Songkhram (70 km west of Bangkok) to Phuket and would have instantly took you up on the adventure as your venture proposal would have sealed the deal for me. I've only ever gon 150-200 km trips in one go but am really yearning for longer more venturous trips such as this..

PS. ended up taking the bus to Phuket..and about to get the bus back to S. Songkhram this Thursday where my bike has sat lonely for a month

But please do post here again more about your trip if it unfolds!

So it appears I never did nor don't have to file as I am head of a household (son has American passport and will have his SS on its way as soon as I remember to get to the post office) which brings my threshold higher. I don't/have never made more than 10,000 USD in any year that I've been here (equal to about 450,000 baht when I first came...and 330,000 abouts now !!!)

@Gumball, 'if I do owe something???' There's no question about it in my mind, if the IRS ever tried to say I owe them taxes from my time in Thailand, it would call for me to write a thoughtful hip hop song about American pride with references to the Boston tea party and all such other significant events that have made me a proud American...But in the event that everything I have said is true, than the IRS says I'm not required. Like I said, if they want to prove I am actually not way under the US poverty line and under the tax exemption limit...then they'd be up for disappointment.

The thing is, I don't intend or wish to be taxed for actually going through with filing backtaxes, which according to the rates mentioned, looks like I was never required to file in the first place so I'm not going to pay some CPA or buy some program or pay late penalty fees for filing something that the law says I don't have to file. Though if I do choose to keep this stance, than I will need to prepare a letter explaining my reasons for not filing taxes, which would probably be best to reference school transcripts, bank statements, employment salary letters and pay stubs that I have collected over the years...or would I be better off not providing any such references and just the letter or just doing nothing or ???

Thanks fellow Yanks

To be honest, I'm not worried about not gaining a US pension someday or claiming any returns that should have been mine from work that was done stateside years ago (they got my taxes for time I was there, hopefully the dollars went to something good, while others who filed may have got returns from presidential elections or whatever, good for them, I'm indifferent)

Okay okay...my son is registered as a US citizen with both American and Thai passport. I have procrastinated sending off the Social Security packet application to Manila until it was closer time to him going to the USA as I previously saw no other purpose of having a SS # living in Thailand with USA years away...but sounds like I ought to send it off sooner than later if I got to worry about taxes..

Which really, if it's on the burden of IRS to prove I made so much money living here in LOS, I say let them waste their time trying to.. but seriously, being in Thailand, as a student who really is at border line if at all on the 8k per year of income (being that the baht-dollar rate has dropped so much I make more US dollars now than I did two+ years ago). Do I really need to contact the IRS and make late filing? Lets be reasonable, I have made average of 400 - 600 dollars per month my time here, most which either gone to University or my son most recently.

Yes I can prove that I've been a student in Thailand and will continue to be so likely come January for the next 2 - 3 years. Do I really need to file for the years in school prior and the upcoming years to come. I've read (here) that it is possible in the visa process where the tax returns are required, that without a tax return transcripts for the affidavits, etc. it is possible instead to attach a letter explaining why one didn't file taxes (inadequate income or student status, etc.), particularly if one is using a sponsor for the visa (which I will likely need to)

so is it safe for me to go along this route and not worry about taxes...what are the chances it's really gonna bite me in the butt?

I HAVE No assets, stocks, or any of such luxuries... Even counting what peanuts I could pull in to be able to breath here in LOS, I'm WELL below the US poverty standard line. Considering all this, is someone going to still strongly advise that I do belated filings and/or begin to file from here on only or ???

As a Thai American, I can say that I had strong conservative views about love and relationships growing up in the USA, losing the v card somewhere around 18, about the same time I came over to Thailand and experienced a whole new world, and suddenly had stronger sense of identity here as a 'luk kreung' where as in the states growing up, almost everyone is mixed with a lot of cross-cultural races and for the most part wasn't much special there...

Polygamous lifestyle definately sprouted for me moreso in Thailand...but that's not to put the blame on Thailand or culture or anyone but myself, just quick observation.

Thanks for briefing what the sources already said, but I need laymens terms... the limit is 8xxx $, ok I take this means if I've earned less than this in a year, I don't need to file? If I have made more (which all I might be able to show is a Thai bank statement/bankbook) than I should have filed but didn't cause didn't know, so am I screwed or is there a way to fix this and do a belated filing from here???

Actually, even though I did make average no more than 300k baht each year I've been here--or some 9,000 USD annum, even as a single guy in the first few years, I was a student so does that exempt me (most everything I made went towards tuition and living, no hope for saving anything those years) ? And for the last three years, I haven't been a student, but I haven't been single...not officially married but staying together and having a son together, doesn't that make me defacto married and thus exempt as a married couples limit is certainly higher than I've ever made?

The part about excluding 80XXX $ simply makes no sense to me? What the heck does this mean and how does it apply to me, if at all...? Again, I've not worked with the IRS for 30 years, so such ambiguous terminology about taxes and such aren't clear or familiar to me and surely many others who may be in my position now, or in the future.

Let's keep it simple for all American expats who decided to domocile in another country (at the bottom of the expat food chain) for 5+ years just barely getting by...as a student, as a father (or mother) exempt or not? If not, how to fix things? Surely I'm not the only American in LOS getting by on a peanut compensation and not considering that I might owe IRS, especially considering I was always getting taxed in LOS anyway, though it not amounting to any social benefits, etc.

Thanks again,

Okay, so all these years here, and considering eventually to do a DCF or any paperwork for that matter to migrate the missus and family back someday..., seems one of the biggies is showing filed tax returns...I remember someone saying its only if you made real money xxx...

Ooops,

not that I ever was making any real money here in Thailand but a quick google found these resources regarding the subject:

http://prague.tv/articles/business/taxation-tips-part2

and

http://www.globaltaxhelp.com/taxbasics.htm

...and they might as well have printed in Chinese, for the love of simplicity, I'm dumbfounded. Can someone either tell from there own bg/knowledge/experience or translate the above to laymen terms to answer the simple question.

Somewhere in there it says some limit of 8000 grand US annum which is some 260 k + in baht, works out to about 22kbaht per month. I think over the last several years of me just getting by enough to keep me in school for some of those years, and enough for me to keep food in my mouth and diapers on my son most recently, I made from teaching English and writing freelance, circa 300k (baht) per year over the last 5 years...never occcured to me to file any of it, being at the bottom of the 1st world food chain and all, and US domocile somewhere in the distant future.

Being that I haven't worked for 30-40 years dealing with IRS, I would never have suspected that I'd need to file any taxes while barely getting by in LOS, as I suspect many other younguns who may take the expat route from early age may be oblivous to the fact as well. So what are the facts?

Am I screwed? Do I owe money for not filing any of it, or maybe I will shut up for now and let someone with the proper bg/knowledge/understanding clear things up before I jump to any conclusions.

Thanks in advance

I need to get on the right persons' email lists.. Others talking about getting ab-tai college students, and plane crash corpses, I'd love to see that kind of stuff, anyone want to pm me some links to pics or forward to my email please, see my profile.

Ever since Wat Yan Yao after the Tsunami, I've never been the same... came across one particular large westerner corpse completely rotten and decayed, but the popular brand underwear he was wearing were completely in tact, and all I could think of what a great commercial that would have been for the underwear company...

anyway, seriously about the pics, get me in the loop please. Seeing such pics is the best thing for everyone, no point in living in denial. Reminds me of the lyrics of the Beatles, A Day in the Life....

thanks for trying, but afraid I know all this info already

@archa, the information you posted above is specifically for the I-864, which is only relevant when applying for Adjustment of Status, usually folks who already got the visa and are in USA already, as you kind of pointed out.

I was looking for k1 (I-134) specific, which I've already read/known that a joint sponsor is possible, but I want to know to what extent. i.e. Can a joint sponsor be sole sponsor?--in cases like mine where I don't have a US job or assets in my own name, etc. i.e. for students overseas who get married etc. So what about in cases of a rich family that the petitioner in question didn't really have to work and thus didn't have an income in the states? I assume just assets in his/her name would be sufficient for the form...but would be happy to hear otherwise.

@ mellow, that's too bad about your initial rejections, b1 is clear-cut for such rejection-- hardly ever hear of a boyfriend/girlfriend of an American citizen getting that one unless it was unknown to the embassy or they were really affluent with absolutely no reason to go around the immigration process via a B1. From what I'm reading, K1 seems a whole lot smoother than K3, and doesn't seem so bad figuring a joint sponsor (relatives/family) is allowed, simply unclear as to what extent.

Was kind of hoping for someone else who has been in the exact same situation to me or similar as far as relying completely on sponsor during application. Already spent all day reading the laws and rules, but have found no case yet that the petitioner had 0 income or assets stateside and used a relative sponsor 100 percent for the I-134 and I-864 likewise at AOS...

Living in Thailand since 2002. Have small job-financial history here, but I guess all that means squat for migrating to the USA.

For the sake of my 18 month old son, want to get back to the states as soon as possible. When I do go back, want to go as a family--son has passport, mom is still Thai (together for 3+ years but still unmarried). Don't want to leave my son here in Phuket raised by his grandparents (Please see my thread on family forum for specific reasons) for extended period while his mom works and I try to find some kind of job back in the USA while suffering through the visa process-- separated from my family for who knows how long.

My dad and other family who are well above the 125% poverty requirements with sufficient income-assets would surely be my sponsor in writing and literally while we got life sorted out safely in the USA... but I can't seem to find anything saying that it's okay for anyone other than the actual fiance (me) to act as primary-sole sponsor for the sake of the visa application. The most I could find is certain petitioners working part time already in USA with at least US Tax returns to show along with an extra I-134 from their parents / relatives as co-sponsor in combination to meet the 125%poverty mark.

Being I've lived in Thailand all this time, I haven't any tax returns or any current US income to even fill anything on the I-134, I might be able to show some pay stubs of freelance work I've done here in Thailand and show Thai bank statements of consistent deposits in my bank account here, but I doubt that would mean anything since it's not guaranteed income from US-side. So anyway, will I just be laughed and rejected if my I-134 was sponsorship info of my dad and nothing from me?

I do remember something about applying directly for an immigrant visa (green card) via Bangkok USCIS office as a legal residence (does being a dual Thai national count as being a resident???), but even that is unclear whether others income and sponsorship on the I-864 affadavit of support.

I know that once I got to the USA, with my family at my side, living in my dad's house initially, I'd eventually get a job/income to take on the burden and readjust to the states, but prospects of getting a job remotely from Thailand are very slim, and like I said, separating from my family first is out of the question.

Thanks in advance,

Whenever one says/claims they are not going to have children because they want to be a responsible human being, I have to be skeptical.

I once used to be in the 'overpopulation = devastation = don't continue your race n' etc.' boat...

but now having experienced the birth of my own seed and with much hindsight I have a confession. When I was in that 'save the world, we are a cancer' phase, I also thought there was a high chance I was infertile...either shooting blanks or only shooting dud ducks--one of the two--with various girlfriends over the years. As a kid, I always wanted a kid of my own, and when my sisters all had their own families, and i was only one left, I was careless mounting various horses and after enough of that to no avail, I told myself that the world had enough kids already, etc. etc.

I was convinced I was infertile and went on with my life wanting to save the earth from humans, ever so resentful of the imbalanced circle of life. And than one grateful day, I received the greatest news I've ever received, and well. It's easy to say having kids is irresponsible if you don't have or can't have kids.

While in one angle, kids are poppin out all over the place, there is the angle where certain folks would kill to have kids but simply just can't. On the kid's mom side, all her 30+ year old married cousins are jealous cause we beat them to it unintentionally as they've been trying for years, so there is a high chance that they are infertile, as seems to be the case with many folks in Asia and elsewhere--actually lots of kidnapping going on in Thailand--infants to toddlers being abducted by people who just can't have kids. If you know for sure that you can have, but you choose not to, than good for you!

Rainman, there are other extremes to save the world. You could stop using computer and electricity, stop driving (in) fossil fuel burning vehicles, live 24 hours in an AIDs hospess, etc. etc. but geese, did it ever occur to you that this earth is not the center of the universe and that there is galaxies of other planets, resources, and existences to be exploited if/when it doesn't go right here? But perhaps like the Hindus believe, your mind is the only vessel that will take you there and by freeing keeping your mine clean from the 'evil' creation of life.

Just out of curiosity, have you always felt this way about not having kids when you first started dating your wife or did this just occur after the honeymoon? I'm curious though if you're wife would really be down for adopting some other kids if she really agrees with you that she doesn't want her own. I'd be quite surprised if that were the case.

Do you know for sure 100 % that you and her have the ability to have kids? Not trying to pry into your personal life and offend you or anything, just curious if how much your motives are pure and how much are for selfish or other unknown factors (as partially mine were when I thought I felt similar)

Though overpopulation, global warming may all be real, being proactive about it so often is motivated by one's own selfishness IMO.

If it is the case that you're able to have kids, how do you know that your kid won't be the world's savior...so this world goes to shit, somebody's grand kids' grand kids' will be the inventor of the technology and star ships that will let humans manifest new frontiers and exploit new resources...yes my friends evolution goes beyond this world!

To say the least... can be done, is being don, has been done...on even less than 30k...in Bangkok, yes. In the country, hel_l yes.

Kids who need top notch nannies and international schools...maybe not

Enough beer, good eatin, and bumpin and grindin, for someone who has lots of either charm or mojo left...hel_l yes

Preparing for major 'emergencies', consistent trips around the world, and other luxories...agreed, could be difficult,

However, last I checked, all my middle class friends and families in the west couldn't afford to necessarily jump on a plane around the world twice-thrice times a year, so it suggests to me people who can do that are usually more well off than middle class anyhow.

The question, 'for how long' is relevant. If one plans to do it for short term, no problem, could have the time of their life the while. If one wants to do it long term, specific planning would need to be done. i.e. instead of renting a studio, one would have to make installments on a house/condo, car, etc. to be able to ease the road.

I could continue to do it if I wanted, but I got to get back to school just so I can be an arrogant guy making at least twice as much a month now, and than telling the other ignorant guy making the same though has never lived a lesser standard, who asks 'how can you do it?' To shut his mouth....

Bina you did point out some good points, particularly the potential setbacks that would make a difficult situation even worse if/when I'd get back to Uni...

Assuming that I were able to come back and simply have to start a new at 3-4 years old, considering I'd have a world of options as a Uni graduate with much experience my plate to add, life wouldn't be so cloudy...

...but... in the case of...

...her meeting, mating, and possibly marrying someone--someone who is capable and willing to buy her a car and shower her family with money, vip ticket to their hearts--that would just be the end of me as far as her family's concerned.

...me, a luk kreung at an international uni, no mia holding me back as in the ol' days--sure there's lots of candy that crosses my path as has back in the day, just being in bangkok with the friends is hard enough to resist. Anyhow, with my son in mind, I think I've got enough experience and will to know to draw the fun-serious line, so I'd hope...

more worried about her than myself (I know how to break hearts, where her heart has only ever been broken) though I'm sure she's more worried about me than herself. Difference is, I'm at her mercy with the son, not the other way around.

So what can I do, to assure that my legal rights are never at stake? I have no right to control the mom's heart if she were ever to decide to be done with me once and for all but as far as the son, that's my (our) seed. My son has my surname, but his house registration (tabien bahn) is in this phuket house for now. Aside from his legalized Thai/English birth certificates, I have signed some other document binding me (affadavit) to be responsible for him til age 18.

Certainly, it wouldn't be easy for some rich guy just to decide to adopt my son without me knowing anything right??? Or would it make a difference if I just married her (regestration) to bind us even more for the sake of our son. She, like many Thai girls I have known, the materialistic mentality again-- get bored easily...little will power and all's it would take, I fear is a well off guy with a soft heart to appeal to her and her parents... and then, it wouldn't take much from there...

Janet Jackson's 'What would have you done for me lately' would be their song of the week for me, than I'd join the club of the other dads (including my own half brother in Thailand as well as my American sister's husband) of I had a son (or daughter) long ago, but the mom/kid just disappeared from life with their new lover/bread winner.

I guess if I fear such, I'm just gonna have to deal with her directly to ever be able to come to the right decision before its too late.

...what ever to do...

Over the past two days, I have kept civil and out of everyone's way (except for my son), though he's ever attached to his grandma. I know they love him a lot, that's never been a question, but I want my son to recieve a balance the right kinds of love, somewhat like the extremes I recieved. His grandma does have some values, they're not all bad, the motorcycle attitude is what eats at me the most

Been thinking much, but not coming to any solid conclusions. I did talk to his mom real late the night of the incident and she still seems so set on our initial plan of me going back to uni for ultimately a better future for us. I'm sure if I actually did happen upon a contracted job here that would allow me to atleast rent a safe house for us here, she wouldn't object, but outside of Phuket, she won't likely budge, which also really annoys me knowing I never wanted to live here in the first place, nor do I plan to get old here with the family...just not my cup of tea. For vacation, sure! I just don't want my kid growing up with a narrow small island mentality. But anyway, that's a different issue.

And though she admits that ultimately a western style upbringing will do our son better, 'now he's too young' and he's better off with family (her family) than someone we don't even know while we try to prepare ourselves better.

Sure, in the USA, the opportunities would be a little more widespread to a high school graduate with some college, but I'm still in no place to jump on a plane with him, particularly with her and all the visa hassles/issues. Without a degree, Phuket just doesn't seem to present anything for me as I'm sure I'll find all over the world as time marches on. And unless something magical happens, it just doesn't seem like something stable on this island is going to cut it for me...we'll keep the door open for a little bit.

I've been getting by here in Thailand (central) for some 5-6 years on teaching and writing months and years at a time, been quite lucky to get around the whole degree stigma to get semi-consistent work keeping me going...but I've also been lucky that no major emergencies-incidents that were beyond have come in the way (with the exception of the unfair scholarship policy that had all my hopes crushed).

My life here has been sufficient, but certainly it's not the best thing for a son and family who I hope can be a free and wise thinker with an edge over his generation. My brain knows that education is my best ticket up (not so much the education, but the bloody piece of paper)

Both paths are hard. Even going back to University will be physically (making ends meet to meet tuition and living as a full time student!!) and emotionally hard (detachment from my son)...but at the end of three years (max), I'll have way more doors than if I do as has been.

The idea was at that point, my son would just start to be at the age of memory and so it would be just the right timing for me to be in there and provide to an acceptable standard. Also by then, his mom would have been working for long enough to have some credit to her name and, thus having less hassle with things such a visa.

It's a good thing I'm off for October as I don't have to rush this decision, but I don have obligation in November for teaching back in Samut Songkhram. Should be able to figure things out eventually. Thanks again for all the angles and opinions--all have been taken in and food for thought.

Regards,

Whether it happened or not with Jamie and company, and every one came out alive, than I hope the NZ rugby squad thanked their lucky stars they got out with only some stitches, bruises and a stab in the shoulder.

Rest assured, in Thailand, where there are lots of girls, there are guns, and if such a situation really broke out into a rumble as described, quite amazing no guns were drawn or no back up came when the burly bobby (or whichever one it was) was pounding away on a little Thai.

Anyway, the poster of that particular thread would likely not survive in Thailand long as seen from his mentality and conclusions. Had the initial guy gotten beaten down before he got out, by the time word gotten round, dude's boys would have had 'face' and 'honor' to save or prove.

Kind of peculiar how the poster was sure it was eight guys. If it was a group that big, might as well been 9 or 10 or 7, what were they counting in the midst swinging knifes and rods?

Well, why did you engage in an activity (sex) that could result in something that can last (a baby)? Most of us enter marriage/long term partnerships in the hope that they will last, not thinking that that it will fail - failure to plan is planning to fail. All of us hope for 'happily ever after' but all of us have our off days, generally most of us live happily ever after most of the time.

Now, at the grand old age of 24, you have 'possibly' ruined 3 lives - the baby's, the girl's and yours. I do not know any of the parties involved so cannot give any advice in this situation. For future reference - learn to think with the brain that is between your ears and not the brain between your legs!

When I found out I was going to be a father, it was one of the greatest days of my life. When my son was born, so was the grandest feeling I've ever experienced. My son was/is not a mistake but a gift of life that I was and am prepared to raise into a decent thinking man. My personal life and his mom's are only of secondary importance.

Maybe the big issue for the grandparents is the fact that the OP had a child with their daughter outside of marriage, and is not providing adequate support for his family. I don't know the parties, but somehow doubt they will listen to motorcycle safety talks until the bigger issues are addressed.

This is not the case or atleast a very small variable which is seems impossible to solve as long as I allow my son to live in their household.

I have always provided adequate support for son and his mom when we were a family for the first year. I still am paying for his milk and diapers. 90 percent of his clothes and toys... me... the house's first and only air conditioner, microwave, matresses ...me, these material things are beside the point.

It wouldn't matter if I were Bill Gates, and as long as I had allowed my son to stay in their house for however long--a day or four months. Taking him out on the motorbike without a helmet is / has been normal behavior for the inlaws (and a majority of Thai people in general) This is a clear case with cousins and kids in the neighborhood who don't even think twice about such behavior.

If you're in Thailand and in a Thai neighborhood, take a look around, why don't you, then tell me that if I were however rich, they'd change their thinking and allow me to set rules for them.

Just for the record, the way the kid's mom and her brother were raised was not directly and solely by the inlaws. Just as seems to be the tendancy with my own son here in Phuket, most of the raising seems to have been done half in this household and half in relatives home on the fathers side, which is basically showering and spoiling the kids to death...in Thai we call this Ao Jai Luuk เอาใจลูก My Thai mother was almost the same exact way, with the exception of being naturalized American several years before I was born and thus having exposure and some Americanized values...however I'm thankful now that I had my father there to give teach me value in work ethic, earning, and to be diligent and independent, something that my kid's mom and her brother clearly lack.

I'm not saying that the kid's mom and brother are hopeless humans, but I certainly won't have my son unable to provide for himself and take responsibility for his actions as an adult--a value that I believe should be gradually instilled from an early age.

It is mother's child too. And the child is in her house, with her family.

The OP has antagonized everyone, including the child itself.

IMO, too much credit has been given to the OP and his side of the story.

Yes my son is his mother's son as well, but he certainly is not an 'it' as your chosen terminology! I have not misrepresented their side that I know, I have simply stated there viewpoint as I understand it. The issue was/is about safety standards.

My side: I feel that riding on a motorbike without a helmet is an unacceptable behavior, practice, and habit no matter how fast or slow one goes or the distance they are traveling. I forbid it with my own son no matter who is looking after him PERIOD.

Inlaws side: There is no harm in riding around the neighborhood at low speeds, helmet or no helmet, especially if you're only going short distance. I have no right to enforce rules for them. They know what's best. I'm just making problems--after all, there is little to no risk in driving him 2 of 3 houses away.

My side: If it was really that near, why must a motorcycle be taken. I want my son raised with a emphasis on conscious habits not laziness. If you really must go out so near, walk or take a bicycle (I have no rejections if someone wants to take him on a bicycle ride inside the neighborhood.

Inlaws side: If I'd just buy a car, there would be less excuse to take a motorcycle.

My side: I'll get a car when the time is right. Even with a car, there will be an even bigger laziness issue i.e. going only 3 houses down.

Inlaws side: He is their grandson that has lived in their house since April (four months). They know what's best for him (though they saw him some three times his whole first year) and I am not a responsible parent because I don't have a car and didn't send the mom a salary before she got a job.

My side: He is my son that I have taken care of financially (solely) and physically (co parent) since conception up to 14 months old. I was reluctant to enter into the inlaw arrangement because the mom insisted that I and her son had adapt to her and her desire to be near her family (I have my own Thai relatives in central Thailand, nevermind them.) I did not enter into this arrangement because I had no other choice, I entered into to appease the kid's mom, which I now realize as a mistake.

Anyway, it's not a matter of going just three or four or five houses down for I know that's buttering it up to make it sound small. I have no doubt in my mind that they're not afraid or hesitant to take him for longer drives as I'm sure they have, and the older he gets, the more confident they'll get to take him further.

Just as many residents in Yala, Patani, and Naratiwat have little fear of being bombed, so have I never met a Thai afraid or Thai roads or other Thai drivers. 'That only happens to other people' is not a mentality my son should have about any issues.

However, as others pointed out, unless I take charge now or soon, all my ethics and morals will mean squat as long as he's in their household, which is not necessarily horrible in all aspects, though it certainly feels so to me now, but, it certainly won't last long if I'm to do the best thing as a father--so I'm leaning.

Appreciate the constructive angles and point of views from all perspectives. Nothing is set in stone yet. I'd hate to make even worse mistakes and regret, so keep it coming everyone

Initially I was an international student in Bangkok and have not finished my degree because I have a financial burden with a young 19 month old son in Phuket, where his mother is a native. I am reliable, diligent, and skilled for many types of employment and do not require any visa or work permit to stay and live in Thailand as I have a Thai id card/passport (as well as American)

For the sake of my young family, I need to find stable employment in Phuket. I have taught English for 4-5 years in central Thailand and also have been employed as a freelance columnist and content writer for a website giving me viable experience and background for writing / editing work. Though I have done much freelance work, I'm looking for a full time job in Phuket that can offer security and stability (my standards and expectations aren't unreasonable). I am a quick learner of new skills for various potential jobs available, already a decent writer, translator (Thai--English), teacher (English) and pleasant person flexible to adapt to new experiences and opportunities if it is for the better.

I'm interested in anything that can take advantage of my skills in typing (60 wpm), speaking, writing, teaching, basic computer (html, internet) whether Thai or English or both. You can find more about my personality and skills at my personal blog at www.thaiskale.com/journal/ though if for some reason, TV moderation has sensored the link, just click on my profile and there is a link to my website.

Looking forward to receiving your relevant PM.

Thankfully yours,

Steven.

Thank you everyone for your valuable input.

My options seem to be

A. Take charge, safely and cleverly, avoiding all conflict, and adjust accordingly, yet ever safely which implies coming up with an alternative environment that I find fit. Ultimately, USA looks right, but without the mom, that will be a highly difficult task. Even with her, it still calls for a lengthy process dealing with her visa and immigration to even get to that. Phuket is / has never been ideal environment to raise my son, not under such circumstances.

If I were well off with steady work, and could afford my own house and car inside a safe, gaited neighborhood without the lingering yet legit fear of some traffic tragedy waiting to happen, perhaps...but even than, Phuket, where money rules over even the most fundamental of values--that be safety, life, harmony, future, and open mindedness--is not ideal.

Patience perforce...safety first, I need to think of the propre logistics and come up with a short term solution that can harmoniously transit into the long term healthy solution.

or Option B:

Suck it in, waiver my responsibility and rights as a father giving the narrow minded inlaws, who are limited and driven by small island materialistic mentality, their way with my son. Disappear back to my own unsure yet promising path, and just hope that I'll have access to my son in the future, when I may be more prepared and stable to provide a high standard of security, and hope to pop back into his life and take over then.

Am I looking at it wrong or?

My heart is saying A by my logic is saying B. Can anyone advise me on international law? I don't want it to escalate to the point of child abduction and be at risk some retaliation measures they surely would ensue if I were to my foot down openly, but I say again. He is my son, whom has my surname and has been under my guidance and care (financially and physically) since his birth, that is until recently for me allowing such arrangements and making the decision to depart to Samut Songkhram.

So I guess the main decision for me icomes down to deciding that I'm not going back to University in January or am. If I am, than I'm left with no choice but to waiver everything to option B. If I am not, than I can make other decisions to become a responsible father, as I once was, making ends meet wherever I see fit.

Thanks again,

Seems like you never married the mom of your son, coz you refer to your son's mom and not as your wife.

Correct, I haven't yet married her legally or traditionally as I'm not convinced that we will last happily ever after, which could be a major cause of some of our issues (cultural implications)--so I have considered. The plan is if/when I ever decide to migrate to the USA, ideally it would be as a family, and yes I'd have to either marry her before hand or marry her in the USA as far as legal wise (K1 or K3 visa decision).

Doesnt your university offer any scholarship for a GPA like yours?

When I was initially studying, as I had to find and pay my own way solely, I could only afford time and money wise to study 12 credits per term as to be available 4 days a week to work as to get living and tuition funds together. The Uni's policy for their Extraordinary student scholarship (only possible scholarship for foreign students who achieved 3.8 gpa +), so I found out too late, was that you had to enroll minimum of 18 credits per term (4-5 days of classes per week at about 30-35k baht tuition costs per term) consistently every single term or be disqualified for ever obtaining such scholarship. Making tuition for 12 credits per term at circa 25k was hard as it was on top of rent, transport, etc.

Then I hadn't completed gaining (proving) Thai nationality so I was already banned from other options / scholarships. Now that my Thai nationality is finalized, more options for scholarships and loans may (though clearly not guarunteed) be possible--more incentive for me to drop everything for a few years and get back to school.

How much you earn that you cant send some money for your family? I guess you must send money to support your family completely and not just money for the baby.

Initially when I lived with my son and his mom, I handled all expenses for the three of us (though she complained/complains that she didn't have enough--{do they ever get enough?}--spending money and financial leisure, and I admit I wasn't always jolly about showering her with gifts or giving in to all her non-essential spending requests--perhaps working hard for a few years is what she really needs...)

So anyway the arrangement for me remotely sending her diaper and milk money was agreed only a temporary deal so that I could focus and save the essential funds to be able to afford my first term back at Uni where she would ideally have a job then to be able to take over the financial costs of our son for a few years.

Agreed, this is a real problem and everyone has to be careful, especially with a child of your son's age.

I dont think that this is a big issue, unless the step-grandpa drives rash.

??? No, he's not maniac that I know of, but it's beside the point. Aside from safety, I intend to instill non-lazy values in my son, and make it a standard and mandatory habit that is in harmony not only with the law, but a statement and sign that one is conscious and respectful of safety precautions and values. There's nothing wrong with having second-nature habit of wearing crash helmet on Thailand's deadliest machine--one has got nothing to lose wearing the helmet while something (blood and life) to lose without wearing a helmet--simple.

Maybe (just maybe) you shouted and she could not take that. It seems very apparent from your post that you are overreacting too much. I agree that there are some faults on the part of your inlaws.

grandparents.

Yes, I have clearly had flaws in communication with her among others, and probably will continue to experience such as long as I have breath of life, but I tend to master such flaws as opposed to being mastered by them--so is the idea.

How can you guarantee a quality?

Depends on ones definitions of quality--worthy and deserving of a new thread altogether if anyone cares to initiate.

How can you say that your style is not shady? If you think that your kid's grandparents are such bad parents, then why did you leave your son with them at first place?

hady as far as safety, yes! There are many areas they might be more qualified than me, it may be true, but for children, safety comes first. I'm still trying to realize my mistake or come to terms with my own ego, whichever may be the case.

S

As a 24 year old Thai American parent of a 19 month old boy (Thai American dual national as me), I have found myself backed into an uncomfortable corner. My situation is critical and I need the best possible advice and input from other parents and life professionals.

When my son was born April, 2006 in Bangkok, I was proud new dad and made all the efforts to do everything right--at least what I thought was so--from the start. I secured his Thai and American national status to make sure all his options were on the table. Then, he and his mother, a native of Phuket, who quit her job at Dusit Thani hotel in Bangkok, lived in an apartment while I worked two-three jobs in Bangkok to make ends meet for us then.

After a few months, I took up a job teaching in Samut Songkhram and our little family of three moved there. The mom stayed home while I worked and our son was growing up with both his parents, the most healthiest path I believed to be. Eventually, as one might expect, his mom was getting lonely and bored, and as of March, earlier this year, we came to the decision to relocate to the inlaws house in Phuket. The mother had ambitions to get back her life with a job and be near her family in Phuket, while I was supposed to adapt and try to find work in Phuket while the kid stayed home with his grandma pending the mother and I both found jobs.

I was skeptical of such an arrangement from the beginning knowing that without a degree, I would have a difficult time finding security, particularly in Phuket where skilled and qualified farang are in abundance. But I gave in, after all, how could I be so selfish to expect the mom (graduated bachelors in English) to be a housewife for the next 15+years.

In Phuket, I did manage to find a job, but found that it wasn't secure and cloudy future and after a month, I quit as my old teaching position in Samut Songkhram was still vacant. After much contemplation, I decided that my best route would be to take advantage of having the inlaws (the mom's mother and her step dad of 20 years) help look after my son and the kid's mom could be happy to go back to work, etc.

This also opened the window that I could possibly return to University (Bangkok University International College) Where I still had 2.5 full years to complete a degree that I had to abandon almost 3 years ago (despite a 3.9 GPA) due to financial burden of tuition on top of meeting my son's mom which resulted in my son coming to this world.

By June, I returned to my old job in Samut Songkhram so that I could save up for tuition money to get back to school. My son stayed in Phuket with his mom and it was tough decision for me to make, but I believed it would be for the better if I could really get back to school.

Since living in the inlaws house for a few months and since going to Samut Songkhram, everything has gone to crap for me and my version of my own family, something I was afraid of. The inlaws have no respect for me and certain values I tried and hoped to instill in my son from the beginning. And why should they? I don't send them tens of thousands of baht every month. It was agreed (though clearly reluctantly) that I would send milk and diaper money until the end of the year or until the mom got a good job and could take over so that I could concentrate on finishing the degree, which ideally would have been better for my son in the long run--so I thought.

The biggest issue I had that has caused several fights and arguments between me and the mom+inlaws is safety values of my son. For example, initially when my son first started to walk at about 12-13 months, right before I was to depart from leaving my son in Phuket, I made an issue about his safety and try to establish an environment and guidlines that would be agreed so I could sleep well at night knowing he was safe.

The first thing was the house situation. The grandma works from her house as an independent seamstress and their house is like an open door shop house next to a road (with no yard) that has cars and motorcycles passing and speeding by--quite dangerous considering its open door and my son was just learning to walk. Being she has to work and eventually the mom would be away working, with my stressing, we eventually found a solution to build a wooden cage/gate to block of the front of the house and prevent him from wondering into the street while the grandma works away on her sewing machine. I could partially sigh then.

Next big issue was the motorcycle. I initially had the rule that he was not to get on any motorcycle. That didn't ride too well, particularly with the step grandpa who, despite my pleading decided it was perfectly okay to take my son for drives around the neighborhood in the evenings (without a helmet!!!). After our initial dispute about this telling him that it was not cool with me and that I was serious about the motorcycle safety, I eventually had to compromise and said that my son must wear a helmet at all times (I have bought two different helmets for my son just so there was no excuse) which he initially nodded along and I sucked it in thinking my point was made.

Over the past three months, I always suspected that as soon as I was not around, the inlaws would completely disregard the helmet rule as they truly don't see any value in such a rule as their counter argument about my safety and moral plees was that people who die on motorcycles would die even with a helmet on, and that it's only speeding drunks who are at risk, etc. etc. But anyway, I fooled myself, sucking it in believing that if I didn't see it and as long as the kids mom was telling me over the phone that my son wasn't on the motorbike or on the apparent rare occasion that he was, he was helmeted. Deep inside, I suspected she was only saying so to appease me and shut me up from making an issue. But I wasn't there and what could I do?

So, now come October, the mom has finally got a job and is away in Bangkok for one month training deal before she comes back to work in Phuket early November. October is school break for me so it was sure I wanted to be with my son. I still have November and part of December to teach in Samut Songkhram before my contract is up, where the plan was to enroll and commence Uni studies January as explained earlier. So I've come to Phuket to be with my son, for it was one of the last opportunities I might have to spend good quality time with him before every thing goes down (or up as ultimately intended).

Being back in the inlaws house, everything that I feared and wanted to avoid is surfacing. I've been back in Phuket almost two weeks and the mom isn't here so I've lagging around the house with the grandma and my son (who is now attached to his grandma and seems to resent me at times as is the attitude of the grandparents)

So this last weekend, I went to a funeral in Pataloong of one of the kid's mom's relatives' relative. I was invited and since I never been to Pataloong or Hatyai, thought it'd be nice to see for the drive. I initially planned to take my son, but the grandma made an issue saying that it's dangerous and he shouldn't go. Rather than argue with her, I let her have her way and since I had already agreed with the other relative to accompany on the drive, I didn't back out. So anyway, sunday night (tonight) I arrive back at the Phuket house and the grandma is there but my son is not in sight... I have an idea where he's at but I'm hoping I'm wrong. What do you know, he's out with the step grandpa on an evening cruise and both the crash helmets are sitting around....

He and my son eventually get back and I'm wanting to avoid the inevitable dispute but I know it's not likely. When I try to approach either the grandma or step grandpa, I'm immediately insulted violently with words, almost kicked out by the step grandpa, all in front of my son who is clinging on to them both (he has been spoiled by them, so what can I expect)Though with intent to use the most polite language and wit I have to lure them into a constructive dialogs (avoid being attacked physically) as they refused to talk intelligently and totally disrespected me in front of my son. I know I was at loss as I am in their house, etc. etc. and so now I'm just stuck figuring out what to do next.

I know I don't want my son here anymore. I may be overreacting, but if it means his life, I refuse to budge, particularly on the helmet issue. I know the only way I can be sure is to take things back into my own hands as they once were, which is quite difficult to do considering the circumstances.

Though I saved face and avoided a hopeless situation from erupting into a violent ending tonight, nothing has been gained and I need to make critical decisions--for the life of me and my son. I initially tried calling the mom in Bangkok to try to work something out and figure things out with her consent but after two minutes she hung up on me and turned off the phone. She is enjoying her solo life with her new work friends, which sounds like they are sitting around playing cards in the hotel room...she refuses to have anything to do with me and I know the only way I can assure that me and my son gets out of here safely and rightfully is if she agrees.

And so what next? I'm stuck but I know that if I just ignore it and get on with my life as planned, things will get worse after 2 + years away at Uni...it's only been two months and I'm starting to regret ever leaving away. The whole first 6 months, the grandparents basically wanted nothing to do with raising the kid but now they are looking that they don't even trust me with him and clinging on to him. In two more years ++ how much more difficult will it be to take back charge in quality raising a son, that I'm sure he won't get from spoiling Thai grandparents.

I wouldn't be surprised if the mom hasn't already got a new boyfriend and she's it's not unlikely she won't meet someone knew after a while... We've already had are spills and the only thing really left letting us even know eachother,so it seems is the son. I don't want to be the dead beat father who left his kid with the grandparents, and sends child support, etc. If I continue with the initial plan, I may end up losing out all together after two years that may make it even more difficult.

I see that I have made a mistake leaving him with the grandparents now--In only three months, he has grown apart from me a lot and is at risk of being raised their own shady style--one that I have decided I can not ultimately accept seeing the results from the kids mom and her younger brother.

What must I do??? At first I thought that I would just suck it in for 2-3 years where I would eventually step in and take over with more options than, but I'm so backed in the corner now that I may need to act now before it's too late. This initial post is so long and if you were able to finish to this point, please offer some support, advice, suggestions, and angles that I should consider. I need all I can get to make the healthiest, wisest situation possible.

Thanks in advance x 1000

That's shows you know nothing about Phuket little farang...

Phuket Tuk Tuk's are red four wheeled doored (in the front) vehichles in the previous picture. The tuk tuk's you know of in Bangkok simply don't exist in Phuket, at least that I've seen.

Don't waist your breath arguing with me on this one, you will miserably lose.

Next time you're in Phuket, request a tuk tuk and see what you get

We have them in Bangkok and they are called tuk tuks too.

You must live in Minburi, Chokechai see or some other such bangkok moo bahn sub.. The urban bkk as well as most other central thailand would likely call it a rot sawng taew (two row vehicle) as the standard tuk tuks (3 wheels) are quite abundant in central Thailand.

Their cowardice has no limits. I've seen Thais attack foreigners from behind

w/weapons. I've seen 10-15 Thais kicking/punching (1) foreigner

(more than once). It would be nice to think the horrible farang had always

done something to deserve it, but I personally believe the media has

irresponsibly whipped up nationalism levels to where it really doesn't matter

if the farang is good or bad, right or wrong, it has become okay to assault

foreigners. Rarely will there be any consequences, even if the Thais are high

on yaa-baa. It seems to have become almost a weekly occurrence here.

So you've been here for one or two weeks?