Jbax

Thailand would do itself a favor by adopting what works best in other countries, and apply it to Thailand.

Create farm agents, who visit local farms and process soil/water tests, keep current on pesticides (and organic alternatives), disease, weather patterns, animal innoculations and, where applicable, crop rotations. They would also offer advice on drainage, wells and soil improvements.

Aspects of this program should be an adjunct of every Thai university.

Government sponsored machinery collectives. Establish districts and provide low cost equipment rentals: tractors, combines, emergency pumps, generators wagons, combines, tillers, etc. Make it a break even operation, allowing for living wages for employees and maintenance.

Seed/fertilizer collectives.

Provide government sponsored crop insurance.

The government also should take an intelligent look at GMO's and establish a well-reasoned official stance.

Upgrade the power grid. Thailand's is ridiculous at best, deadly at worst.

Provide universal high-speed internet access nation-wide. Make Thailand the model for the world.

Man, there's some zany, far-out replies to the OP.

I travel back and forth from the US--> Chiang Mai all the time. Despite what a few Libertarians here would have you believe, the sky in the U.S. isn't falling, real estate values are rising in most areas, gas prices are roughly the same as in Thailand and the US dollar has shown a lot of resilience (look at Canada @ .895 for example). Some of these posts have anyone over 50 as being a waste of skin and predict you'll contract ebola the second you step off the plane in LA... yeesh.

Again, being 45 and not having any assets should be a major concern. Unless you plan on working here in Siam and scoring an endless number of work visas until the day you croak, you need to develop a plan.

The GF is, IMHO, a potential, but very real, pitfall. What little you now have will mostly be lost in a divorce. Think beyond the GF: you need to secure your retirement. And the only practical way to do that is by returning to the US, land a decent job, qualify for SSI and maxxing out an IRA.

They need to clean up the beaches and make a serious effort to limit pollution. I'd also like to see every crooked jet ski rental outfit shut down.

Whenever I hit the beach I expect the prices to be 2-3x higher than in Chiang Mai. Seems to me unless 1) the bill was jacked up beyond the menu price, or 2) there's a "special" farang menu, there's nothing to gripe about. 

Last time I flew Air Asia, the "low ticket price" came with a shocking number of fees and add-on charges: a seat reservation charge, meal charge... cripes, I think there was a seat belt tax, a pro-rated toilet seat wear & tear fee, an air sickness barf-bag charge, a recirculated cabin air emissions tax and I'm pretty sure I paid for a tire... 

Well... you could go the Seinfeld route and suggest a menage a trios... or begin to display revolting personal habits that render you unfit for cohabitation (being a guy, this advice comes with a caveat: you might quickly find wallowing in your own filth enjoyable, so stick with the basics: spontaneous noxious gas and skid marks (assuming she's doing the laundry). The spicy Thai cuisine does most of the work for you. If you're more of a performance artist, let her catch you peeing in the sink. Also try watching TV shows that women find repellent: a weekly 3-Stooges film festival (I prefer the Curleys to the Shemps myself, but the ladies seem to hate them all)... Family Guy... 1967's The Dirty Dozen (trust me, women find the movie utterly repellent on some mysterious visceral level).  If that fails, demand she pays rent. Lots of rent. If she's knocking down 12,000 baht a month, demand 15. Gaseous, stanky drawered, sink peeing, cheap Charlie Lee Marvin fans are all bachelors.        

Hi... I'm an American so I'm not familiar with how the UK pension works--- some countries seem to idiotically restrict receiving pensions if you choose to reside outside of your home country.

I have been living in northern Thailand for a year on a modest federal retirement pension ($2500 a month) and have annuity money socked away plus have US social security eligibility ($1585 a month) to look forward to in 5 years. That's my situation...

Here's my experience: there is no such thing as a retirement visa per se in Thailand. If you meet the requirements (50 or older and have 65,000 baht a month in income or 800,000 baht in a Thai bank--- a worse proposition in my book--- [use 32 baht/$1 USD] you can score a "non-O" renewable visa.

Okay, now here's my experience. Thai immigration requires you to complete a financial statement (notarized by your embassy). I immediately realized the process is bogus: the notary simply validates your signature and the Thai government has no real way to verify your monthly income. I meet all the requirements, but if I was so inclined I could easily pass myself off as Scrooge McDuck. I even tried to provide supporting documentation proving my income and it was ignored... Immigration just wanted the notarized financial statement, which could conceivably be a total work of fiction.

Being over 50 does matter though.

But more importantly, can you live on 38,000 baht a month? That depends on you.

In the north (Chiang Mai/Chiang Rai) a decent condo (AC/WIFI/cable... Hot water, maid service) can be found for 9,000-14,000 a month + utilities. Electricity and water can add up... If you crank the AC in a larger condo it can run from 1200-4000 baht a month, depending on the season. Water is cheap: 300-500 baht.

Budget 20,000 baht for the place to be safe. Yes, you can always find a 4,000 baht fan room and become suicidal, but trust me, you'll want a standard of living.

Food: if you eat like a Thai you can eat well, very, very cheaply. 200฿ a day is more than enough... You'll get fat on that. But if you like western food, it gets expensive. Beef is Australian and outrageously spendy. Imported anything is costly thanks to Thai duties and freight. Don't even think about cheese.

Food: 6000฿

Booze: here's where it gets dicey. If you can stomach Leo, Chang or Singhai beer, you can buy it for 60-75฿ a 500ml bottle... Better stuff (the fine folks at Heineken do good work) is 90฿ or so. Hard liquor is outrageous... A bottle of 12year old Glinlivet is over 3000฿ more than twice the cost in the states. Booze is generally sold during lunchtime and from 5-midnight, but there's places you can score beer all day long if you look around. If you drink even 1 beer a day and stick to 50฿ cans you still need to budget another 1500-2000฿ a month (factoring spillage, a desire for a second can, etc).

So right there you've spent 28,000฿ and have 10,000฿ for everything else. You won't be able to really afford a scooter so walk and take red cabs (20฿ each way, usually). Movies are about 150฿ (consider buying the 100฿ bootlegs in the stores--- amazingly recent selection--- stick to wearing shorts and t-shirts (clothes aren't particularly cheap here, surprisingly)... Avoid Starbucks and mall restaurants (but Tops food courts are amazingly cheap). Get a Tops member card and score the discounts/rebates/coupons.

10,000฿ of disposable income isn't a lot: it works out to 300฿ a day. You should get into a regular dental routine (90 day exams/cleanings)--- cheap at 1500-2000฿ a visit--- to avoid future costlier, more painful problems. It's incredibly easy to blow 300฿ a day on a trip to the mall... So it's best to avoid everything except a supermarket, food court, or an occasional movie.

You also have to budget your 90 day reporting costs (1000฿) and judge whether you need a phone (3G here).

A phone will cost you at least 6000฿ to buy and then you'd have to recharge the SIM card--- figure another 500฿ a month (no costly data option). You can save money by sticking with wifi on your computer or plan on buying a 1,000฿ dongle and spending 850฿ a month on the best data plan.

These are all sneaky costs and erode your 10,000 baht disposable booty. You could very easily be down to having only 200฿ a day to spend.

You won't be able to wine and dine women or pay for a lot of massages on your budget.

Also you should always have a plan b. Thailand is in flux. This government could get crazy and you really should always have an escape budget equivalent to 1-way airfare (both to Bangkok and wherever home is), taxi fares and at least 1 night in a hotel. You also might not like it here, who knows?

Here's a few things I'd like to pass along:

Hate isn't the opposite of love, it's indifference.

Life is too short to be miserable. If you can't fix what's wrong, get the hell out of there.

Man, what a hassle some of you guys go through! (I gripe about getting older but there's an advantage in Thailand of being 50+ and retired...) ----regarding the off topic comment re: boarding refusal hold 1-way tickets. I fly to Thailand all the time fro the US on EVA Air and was told I needed to show an exit out of Thailand on my initial move here (I just bought a refundable $80 flight to Kuala Lumpur). Now I'm armed with the so-called "retirement" visa and show my Thai driver's licenses quickly proving I live here (I noticed how foreign airlines employees can't always identify visa stamps--- a DL gets the point across faster at the gate).

Child molestation transcends monetary issues. Both guys are scum... a salute to the authorities involved.

The Feds are unconcerned about state taxes per se. As an ex-pat with no real estate interests in the US and (at present) no vehicles to register, how else would I maintain a US address---? I need a US bank for direct deposit for my federal pension. I'm only slightly concerned about the Passport renewal, but that's still got 9+ years left and if necessary I'll appeal to my FL rep when the time presents itself.

As for NV, all I can say is that I went to my CPA and explained my predicament--- that I intended to move to Thailand and would likely also live in another country also, and he reported back that FL was the only option without owning property or showing utility bills--- due to the FL boating lobby,a marina address was sufficient. I checked out WY on my own and it was impossible based on my plans. I just ran with what my CPA told me. I have a FL driver's license (and both mc/auto Thai licenses) but never registered to vote. I scored my Thai so-called "retirement visa" last November (I found the process fairly simple, but should never have begun it in Bangkok-- it would've been so much easier in Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai)...

Interesting. I'm originally from Oregon--- I retired from the Treasury Dept. last year as a GS12 and ended up becoming a FL resident. Incredibly it's the only state with no state income tax that allows residency using a PO Box (thank you boating lobby... lots of Floridians are live aboards and spent years sailing around the world--- just pick a marina with mail forwarding services!). TX? Yikes... I've driven the DFW enough to realize life is too short... and the farther you are out of Austin it gets too Tea Partyish for me (that's subjective, but the DFW is an indisputable fact). I know Oregon still has high property taxes but I've also heard worse gripes about Texas--- no longer owning property myself, that's not a factor. Another consideration in having a home is having to decide what to do with it while you're gone. Hard to rent it out if you plan to only be gone 3-4 months at a shot. Yards have to be maintained, insurance, utilities and taxes paid... and for me there'd be a nagging concern about theft and vandalism. I'm in a stress reduction mode now. And homes have proven themselves to be frought with pitfalls if you buy them as an investment--- (I'm guessing you're paying cash, but I'd rather draw $500-600 a month in dividends in an equivalent amount of stock). Personally, I love living in Thailand in a nice condo with AC, Wifi, and maid service for $275 a month... and the women I date tell me this rent is an outrage. I'm with you completely on the smog and heat--- I'm going to adjust my life here around that, arrive in late August and bail at the end of every December for Malta, Ecuador or maybe even Uruguay. Dang... fewer Thai massages!

There seems to be a xenophobic streak running through a lot of Thai Visa posts (the ongoing rage against the police, Thai efficiency, corruption, the usual women rants, etc.) but I think we have to accept the fact that we're here in a foreign country, generally living far better than we could do on comparable money wherever home might be. And to some degree we make our own personal hells... but I don't feel we (no matter where 'we' are from) have any right to complain about another group of foreigners here. If you don't like it you're certainly free to leave. Yesterday at my condo in Chiang Mai, a 22-year old kid from Michigan was dragged away after walking into the lobby naked and complaining about having smoked too much meth (this happens to be one of the nicest buildings near CMU) and I felt compelled to apologize for this moron (much as I did when Justin Beiber came to Bangkok... before I realized he was Canadian). One doped out naked loony American and every Thai that works here thinks WE'RE all suspicious.

And I did forget about shark finned soup. And I too I hate to see the likes of me have a superiority complex.

I live across the street from CMU... it's ginormous! The idea of parking outside isn't feasible unless parking structures could be built and that would mean building lots of them (and what vacant land there is in on campus!!). Suthep Road itself is always jammed... this is likely just a minor high season issue with the Chinese tourists anyhow--- and sounds like an irrational response to a problem that barely exists.

Hey, we're foreigners too. The Chinese tourists should be welcomed, not scorned. I just want them to stop the ivory trade!

Living in Chiang Mai, the only disgusting thing I've seen Chinese tourists do is flock to the jewelry markets looking for ivory. But the Thais sell it... so who's worse in that respect?

The Chinese tend to arrive in VIP buses (the kinds that tend to crash)... I don't think I've seen a single one drive a car or rent a scooter here.

I just hope this permanent solution wasn't instigated by a temporary problem...

"To ask, you have no idea! Though as I've researched (lived in) different places in this country must say Chiang Mai was a favorite but having to travel outside the entire region from late December to April due to over the top the most unhealthy pollution than anywhere I've encountered in the world made me reconsider. Now lungs healthy & living in BK. Reasons to leave is this country is both overly commercialized & overly polluted including the ocean near any inhabited areas."

Funny... the air pollution in Chiang Mai is what's caused me to rethink living here year 'round. I just never thought BBK as the answer though. It's a megalopolis built on a traffic jam--- and it's frankly one of the ugliest cities I've ever seen in my life. But to each his own. The impending burning season has me concerned so much that I'm thinking about packing up and checking out Spain... (from June to December Chiang Mai is fine... I'm originally from Oregon, I understand wet).

As the OP my mentality behind the question was based on a lot of "what if's"--- I think every farang needs a Plan B (even a C), and some definable reason or event that causes them to leave.

I love Thailand... Chaing Mai and Chaing Rai have 90% of everything I want in Thailand (sadly lacking only a beach). I live like Scrooge McDuck here on what my car payment was on my plastic Chevrolet back in states. I've grown addicted to Thai massages and discovered the Thai food is pretty authentic (Kaw Soi will surely be the focal point of my autopsy). But I do realize that common sense involves deciding where to pull the pin. Every comment here has some validity--- perhaps a better question to ask is "What would make you leave Thailand?"

Jumping into the fray... I don't think too many banks (US that is) hold on to mortgage paper. It's still bundled and sold. And the old formula of paying 3% interest on deposits lent at 9% (or whatever) flew out the window with TARP and the stimulus. Banks are awash in 0% money, yet have ironically shored up their bottom lines by ham handing banking fees and overdraft charges. Have you tried to get an overdraft fee waived in the past 3 years? I'm not even sure having incriminating photos of your banker with dead hookers, confused sheep and live boys would do the trick.

Dude, 90% of the guys on this forum are in Thailand because they can't relate to women and form proper relationships in their own country, or have an unhealthy desire for women that look more like the age of their daughters. Most also do not have experience with proper Thai women or real Thai culture; hookers, tuk-tuks and Singha beer do not count. I'd look elsewhere for relationship advice.

Man that's a lot of back story... but ok, I think you're asking what to watch out for:

(in no particular order)

1) Ask to see her passport. Most Thais don't have one. If she has one, compare the name/DOB to her tale and then examine the stamps. Where has she been? Dubai? <flag!.>

2) Kids happen all around here. I've dated 3 women in the past year that had kids young and unmarried. That in itself doesn't imply anything unusual. But this invites other observations: Is she a good parent? Is the child a priority? Does she party and dump the child off with a neighbor? Take note of everything.

---> If you ever got serious with her, you will NEVER be the priority in her life. You'll be lucky to be #2 on the list... usually far below that.

3). Make some excuse to see her Thai driver's license (Thailand has different scooter and auto licenses). They can sneak by on a scooter without a DL but not owning a car.

If it's actually her car, she's got money. Cars are a luxury in Thailand. It's not just the cost (most Thais make less than $20 a day), you have to have a place to park it... and that's a significant issue in any Thai city... and a pain in the ass.

4). Was she married to this actor? Did she get a divorce? Prove it. Good luck with this issue.

Is this Thai guy still in the picture? It's apparently his kid too. Think about that.

Farangs find it easy to stereotype Thais--- especially Thai women. So I will too: very few women demonstrate an ounce of ambition (I've met a few and it's shocking). Life just happens. Same-same. For most, life outside their little world is not a concern. Very few will ever show an interest in anything they're unfamiliar with--- it's almost like if they can't see it, it doesn't exist. This is particularly true with Issan girls---

The difference I think is education. Professional Thai women are vastly different than a farm girl that barely completed Thai high school (and even that is different than your experience).

Does she have goals, ambitions? If so great. But remember she as these in her head way before she met you. You are an afterthought.

Money? OK you seem wise to the sick water buffalo's dog's veterinarian bills scam. But they have a whole arsenal to fall back on: the pregnancy scam comes in 2 flavors: real and unreal.

I would be more concerned about this chick's temper. Defending yourself while she wails on you invites a nightmarish number of new experiences for you. You do not want to experience the thrill of a Thai jail cell.

An angry Thai woman within reach of knives or blunt objects is a chance to check out the peculiar workings of a Thai ER, and trying to prove you can pay whilst drifting in and out of consciousness. Anger issues should be a huge red flag pal. You'd be better off with the more common steely seething silent type, being mindful to make up before she has your murder cunningly conceived.

Seriously, a bad temper is bad news.

Look at her place. BKK is generally more expensive on a day to day basis than almost anywhere else for Thais. Does it jive with how much she earns? Is it clean or a stye?

Finally, why her? You can't really move here, she has no intention of moving out. Do the math.

Have fun, ball your brains out. Get more experience with women, life, exotic lands... but see it as a fling. If you love Thai women, trust me, they're making more every day, an almost infinite supply.

Again, outside of the US I can only speak first hand about Thailand and the Philippines--- and offer pithy, whiny, superficial observations about Perth, Australia (damn! If only it were far, far cheaper and had a cheap-charlie retirement visa program! There's so many things to love about Australia, it's just you'll go bankrupt trying to do them).

On a certain level I'm comfortable in the Philippines. Tagalog is somewhat similar to Spanish and would be far, far easier to learn than even basic Thai. The cost of living is similar to the interior of Thailand. But the Philippines is more Third World than Thailand. Higher crime rate, even more trash, and zero infrastructure outside of the cities. Manila is a mess on every level.

Life is just better in Thailand...

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