Wan123

Unfortunately, Pattaya is a victim of it's own success. While that seems contradictory, there are contradictory social forces in this world, and one of them is bad international press. It is success that creates resentments and vulnerability. Writers and newscasters don't particularly care about Thailand, they care about selling newspapers. It was said that the famous newspaper mogul, Hearst, started the Spanish American War, simply by writing articles. It was also shoddy reporting that created public outcry that broke up Standard Oil. Thailand has done a poor job in public relations for Pattaya, and while it's long range vision as a family resort seems reasonable, the impact of a sudden change of policy has created a void in business efforts; as a result, other areas are relatively stronger. Yet the strengths of Pattaya remain intact. The government finds it necessary to document visitors to an extreme extent, monitor alcohol consumption in the public areas and in fact, is making the business environment very difficult. One thing they could do which would help the general economy is to limit building until the real estate market regains it's footing. Secondly, they could lighten up on alcohol issues to the extent that, if a person is not displaying signs of irresponsibility on the road, they are allowed to go their own way. This is what other countries do. I know Thailand has a terrible record for safety on the road, but this is basically a problem of it's own citizens, not visitors. Russians are a different matter, but the West has drunk driving laws as well, yet they do not pull everyone over for DD tests. 

This nutty country always lives up to the tourism brand, "Amazing Thialand"! I am not sure what the former PM did, but the endemic corruption surrounding the rice scheme was not necessarily out of character for this country, and not necessarily her fault. The real problem is this: the courts, the political system, seems to not be able to create a political context of forgiveness. Even the most corrupt bastards in America forgive each other every four years, and start their own corrupt administration. America is full of corruption in a political, manipulative way. Of course, the national debt speaks to the entire problem. But in Thailand, they want everybody to go to jail. It's nutty for politicians, even generals, to subscribe to this, and guarantees political instability. The current PM should simply request amnesty for Yinkluck, which would resolve these issues at hand. Leaving the country is not the solution, but putting yourself at the crazy Thai court system is nutty as well. You can see she doesn't trust the courts! That says alot. I doubt her intentions were anything but well-intentioned. She had enough money. The real issue is creating an economy that works for everybody. So the government can hire economists to give them solutions that work, rather than arm-chair quarter-backing; perhaps more free trade would allow people to make money, especially if this franchise would be available to people from these impoverished areas. Since goods are not available under the current economic import tax due to prohibitive taxes, creating a free trade situation would allow for greater economic growth because Gross Domestic Product= Velocity of Money X Money Supply. Therefore, if these people had more items to sell, the exchange of goods would produce a velocity of money explosion, and the economy would benefit from the multiplier effect!  At present, most foreign goods don't make it here. Change  that and things would look better. The government can still have a nominal tax on imports (7%) and VAT etc, so they would get something as well. Now they get nothing. How does this benefit the country? Protectionism to the current extent is counter productive. 

It is very sad and heartbreaking. This happens in America or did happen alot to minorities, mostly black males. In America however, blacks know how to play the game. They anticipate reasonable behavior, so if there are warrents they might run. In a recent case, this turned deadly when the cop shot him in the back. What black consituency wants is for the cops to let them go or chase them. I'm sick of it all

Having been around Koh Tao over the years, and having followed the story, it is very strange that if the government wanted a fair display of justice, they 

restricted an international investigation. They had nothing to lose except perhaps, a corruption of justice. Their was in fact, no evidence against these 

young men, because the DNA tests were inconclusive, and the expert from Thailand on DNA if I remember correctly, pointed this out. Maybe it was the NY Times, I am not sure. But I am sure that these two midgets would not have attacked such large people. It was a vicious crime and more likely to be committed by someone whose nervous system was corrupted by cocaine or alcohol, neither of which, these two could afford to buy on their wages to the extent that they would have a nervous condition. No my friends, the government has refused, like many governments, to act fairly with these people. I too, am clear that they will die for someone else's crime, and it is becoming clearly evident that there is a narcotics ring on Koh Tao. 

Thats 20,000 bhat fine!

Also, divers could start doing coral dives in areas populated with water traffic by towing dive flags with a 50 foot no approach law.

It would be so easy for Thailand to make this a safety conscious effort.

Every year people die due to reckless seamanship on the part of boat or jet ski enthusiasts. EVERY ONE OF THE INCIDENTS WAS PREVENTABLE.

THAILAND MUST PASS A LAW FOR BOATING AND DIVING AREAS REGARDING THE USE OF BOATS:

LEAVE NO WAKE or 20,000 dollar fine

Firstly, regarding the "other guy" you must realize that 20,000,000 people come thru here every year, and the chances that a woman might meet a man, when she works in a bar and in general, these places cater to men as you know...the chances are that many women have relationships behind someone's back because they can. That does not mean or never meant that you are not her man. That means she is not to be measured by Western standards, this is not the West. She was entitled to a "fling". If it was more than that, she would have left you. Additionally, being diagnosed with cancer creates a real mental problem for her that gave her additional issues. I don't think this was an issue except in your mind. Perhaps I am wrong but I doubt it.

Secondly, by all means, my sister died of cancer. She has two years or less to live, you should stay with her, help her and forget yourself. Love is about giving and you must love her till the end. You will experience her death and the true meaning of life and death and love. Don't let her die unloved. It is the greatest gift.

If it is operable cancer, she must remove. Perhaps prayer can help also, many cases have been resolved if you are strong enough.

This is tragic but symtomatic of people who aren't thinking clearly, just imitating others. Could it be that alcohol and sex create a violent scenario for voyeurs as the police allege?

But really, no scapegoats in American assassination of President Kennedy, no phoney investigation by American top Warren Commission because we are democracy with two party system and checks and balances etc etc etc

I think it would be good fun for everyone! Can have a spy wing on top floors, and if you see a huge amount of chinamen running around you know they are confused spys! But anyway, who cares about chit chat in residences for UN Ambassadors. They're a transparent organization anyway

IN AN UNRELATED BUT SOMEHOW PARALLEL TYPE OF INCIDENT WE HAVE THE FOLLOWING:

This is interesting. The description of the crime sounds like it was not something the Myanmar guys would do; those guys do their job and have families; they are not in a position to argue with people, they don't speak English or Thai either. The person who did this was angry at this woman or just wanted to rape a "white woman". Sounds to me like someone with a big ego.

Understanding Asian mentality, and how they work is probably beyond the Western mind's ability to comprehend. Secondly, Thais are not heartless animals who slaughter the animals for entertainment--this was a Western tradition. In keeping with this train of thought, I recently returned from a bar and spoke to the girls about this. The woman said to me that, if the authorities believe these boys are innocent--and I suspect they are--they would be tried and quietly sent back to their homes. This is essentially what she said.

Anotherwords, from the Thai perspective, they solved the crime. In this current situation, the authorities are caught up between the mentalities of the West and their own traditional values--not unlike many other cultures, in dealing with an unpleasant situation.

It is obvious and clear that the facts of the case are not coming out in a transparent manner. However, neither have any witnesses stepped forward, including the mate of the deceased. This is especially strange, since his story directly contradicts the official stories.

Finally, we all know that might makes right, not just here but almost everywhere. The veneer of rights is especially thin here however, and the way things are going, it seems that any real evidence to the contrary may be suppressed. The Thais are keen on getting past this, however, from a Western perspective, we are all about "finding the guilty" parties. With the system of patronage, this may in fact prove to be impossible. Yet, in closing, the reality is clear: avoid any arguments with the natives and leave any location immediately should unpleasant situations occur. This is common sense anywhere.

In America this could happen easily. I am not sure who would be arrested, but we have more expertise readily available. That does not mean that innocent people don't get framed. They do, especially when you consider the fact that when you have a court appointed lawyer and he is up against a state with vast resources, the ultimatum might just be pleading guilty to a lesser charge to avoid conviction in the 1st degree--situations like this happen again and again.

The end result of this situation is that it is very unsettling for expats to think or suspect that these young men are being scapegoated. AS A RESULT, THAILAND SHOULD BE AWARE THAT PEOPLE WILL BE VERY HESITANT TO TRAVEL TO THIS ISLAND. IF THEY THOUGHT THAT THEIR BUSINESS HERE WAS IN trouble, it is really in trouble with this publicity for sure.

Yes, since this is a murder of two British citizens, I would hope that the government of Great Britain request the right to review the information regarding DNA and the accused. I would feel the Thai interests would be better served by creating an international team to review the evidence. After all, they should welcome all the help they can get and not be afraid to be right--or wrong. The interest is justice.

Thailand might be a country that is misunderstood from a Western perspective. While the Thais attempt to become Western in attitude, the materialism which is part of economic growth, it in fact, spiritual poison. Old countries which gave birth to modern religions such as Rome, Bangkok, etc., all see the same phenomenon with their ethnic genus: the people stray from religious lives and become materialists, as the US government wants. They want a culture in which productivity is rewarded with the opportunity to make life better, by supplying the needs and wants of the public. As the suppliers of goods and services grow in wealth, they become politically powerful. That is modern civilization.

As for the military, I'm sure they have shortcomings, but they keep Thailand together! They keep it moving forward, as it must, because if everyone throws their hands in the air and wants "democracy" so to speak, in fact the country will fail! The country must move forward economically to create better lives for its people, which are already pretty good by the way; otherwise, what in fact happens is that people who are complaining have even less, and then they don't care about politics, they just want food, clothing and shelter.

I too am concerned that these workers have had no legal counsel, can't speak the language and if a person were to be in position to be framed, it would be in a situation like this. While I would hope that the police are more than lackeys of the wealthy, on the other hand, I can say definitely that in America, this could easily be a frame-up and how could they prove otherwise?

While it may rile the Thai government that people keep renewing their visas on 30 days runs, I think the government should consider a few things. Firstly, the Russians are in general, here in large numbers. Secondly, they are building communities. Thirdly, many of them come hard pressed, in the hopes of making a living here. It may be either premature, impossible or not yet possible for many of these people to do things properly. However, given their resolve to stay here, the Thai government should be pleased that such a large group of people are actively trying to stay here, and in the long run, they will provide employment, economic growth and so forth.

Like many situations, it isn't perfect, but given what they go through to get here, if they are not dangerous criminals, I think the government should be very lenient with them. Many years ago an economics professor told me to read a paper called "Bandwagon, Snob and Veblem Effects". It basically stated that there are three markets with high priced goods: some people buy because it is expensive; another group buys because they see other people buying; some people buy when others are not buying because they are snobs. Likewise, there are a lot of different reasons people do border runs: no real spendable income; others may do things that way; some may be working but not making enough. In such a case, I believe it is in the interests of Thailand to allow them to continue in the hopes that at some point in the future they will be able to do things properly. In America, poor people often act inappropriately due to lack of education or get themselves in other types of trouble. Yet the society at large, in a social sense, pretty much ignores such shortcomings because it knows it is relatively more difficult for them to be the perfect people. Instead, It works with them to make them solid citizens. This is the way it has to be because they simply cannot conform in the beginning.

There is a wise guy there, I could tell some years ago when I saw him at the table: he was untypically loud and seemed to act very friendly with women. I later asked someone about him and they said he was the local Thai mafia--who shouldn't be there in the first place....

Is it the dance party to be investigated or the girls? If it is the girls, there isn't much more left to be investigated.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

IMO there is no excuse or justification for the senseless attacks on schoolchildren and their teachers. In light of that, I propose the punishments be so incredibly severe for the perpetrator of violence and his immediate family that must be aware of his actions/mindset. I am talking about punishments that will not allow his entry to nirvana and access to 72 virgins. Being almost drowned in a vat of pigs blood with all family members forced to watch would be a suitable warm-up. Oh, how I wish I was in charge of meting out punishments to these Islamist sickos.

 There sure isn't. It is a combination of terrorism and total disregard for civilization. I think that the Thai government should use every means available, village to village, to provide security and aid to this area; they should create a vision, a mission, that the people endorse and own; they should help the people live their vision and mission. They must separate themselves from the world-wide identification of Moslem insurgency or else, in due time, this will be only the begining, not the end, of extremism. Taken into a world context, as a Australian general recently said, this is going to be a 100 year war with Islam. So the Thais can side step this issue by first isolating it as a local issue, and then decisively and reasonably solving it before it gets bigger. 

In response to someone suggesting that poorer folks just can't afford the woman, the truth is, everyone wants money but in reality, we all go with people whom we are comfortable with. Most Thai women inevitably wind up with Thai men; some have affairs with foreigners, but children with their own men. In reality, money is no substitute for ability to communicate, having things in common, etc. Sure, the excitement of foreign men dumping money on you is great, but it lasts for only a short while; women are plentiful in Thailand and like America, most women go with men who have some occupation. So don't think because you are a foreigner with money that you are home free. I have noticed no hostility from Thai men, they seem to be taken care of; but back to consumption societies...the idea that the government can just boost wages and give everyone their socialistic due is nonsense. If you go to Vietnam you will notice in the countryside that there are some big homes along the roadside--there is room for entrepreneurial spirit. And the THais have the same independent streak.

The idea that more for everyone is possible, at this time is total garbage. The only thing the government will do is raise the minimum wage. This sounds great until everyone notices, too late of course, that the price for everything will go up in tandem you will be back where you started from. It is an illusion.

Rather than argue in the streets, proposals for workable programs might include plans for revamping education systems; plans for streamlining the electoral process--which I feel could easily be done by creating a website for the electoral process, and using ID numbers plus another form of positive ID and then allowing online voting, monitored by international

electoral committees, and ensuring an immediate result. If they can't elect leaders quickly the government will destroy itself; it could also be possible to invite foreign countries to consult on crop development and resource management.

It is clear that the one stumbling block in Thailand is the educational process. THis is not just a process of sending one's kids to school, it is a process that involves children and their parents in creating an atmosphere of intellectual growth. There seem to be a lot of cultural issues involving intellectual growth as well.

I feel there is a spiritual shift, so to speak, in the society as it embraces materialism rather than an inner Buddhist posture. This shift creates greed, anger and civil strife and disrespects the sangha. This is the most dangerous movement or tendency--it is unseen, leaves no footprints, yet makes all the difference in the society, since it creates a karma which intensifies passions instead of dispassion. No society can exist for long without a core belief system which is embraced by its people. This should be maintained above all else.

Regarding the farmer's plight, I think rather than invest in price supports, which is a dismal failure, a think tank should be assembled which looks at the possibilities for land use in Issaan; potentially building community resorts for travelers; potentially creating other valuable crops; potentially partnership with other countries wishing to build food supplies; potentially creating value added rice based businesses for export...

_{I believe that Thailand has become victimized by images of lollipops and sugarcanes in NeverNeverland, victim to the siren call of democracies, beckoning as did the ancient sirens to the Greek mythological figures, calling them to abandon their core beliefs and swim to the promises of unlimited prosperity. The truth is somewhere hidden from the view of everyone: politicians, businessmen and the general public; that these dreams are dreams projected on your society by governments with political motivations, who use trade and free markets as a political tool. Yet while so much is know, it becomes even more disconcerting to see such a society as Thailand attempt to imitate, inaccurately, democratic institutions and beliefs which took hundreds of years to develop and refine. It wasn't just the laws--it was an acquiescent people, it was an age of industrialization, it was the call for wider civil rights and social welfare which finally resulted in an economy with little future in the way of expansion.}

_{Likewise, it is the overburdening of the state and the expectations of a people, already deluded by the siren calls of democracies around the world, to adopt a form of government which sounds like a panacea for all social ills, but actually is in the process of delivering a knock-out blow to the entire country in a way that few enemies could, by creating a consumption oriented economy rather than a savings oriented economy. In this environment, what is the future of Buddhism? There is no future for Buddhism because the THai people ultimately reject}

_{non-materialism and the respect for people that the Buddhist customs engendered.}

_{It is very dangerous for the THai people to stray past their core belief systems; they are not easily replaced in a day or a week or a year or 20 years--ultimately there will be a huge price to pay as farmers abandon their land in desperation and greed, looking for a wealth which only people in the cities enjoy. And in the end they will have neither farm not wealth, but become, inexorably, the "urban prolectariat".}