jmansilla

17 hours ago, pedro01 said:

 

Not sure if you have a Thai Spouse or not but the way I always did it was have the wife get the finance with me as guarantor. With that, I never had an issue. 

 

Of course, this does mean the asset is in the wife's name. Whether that is appropriate in your case or not isn't my call. 

 

What I can say is that I am settled in Thailand. I am very, very happy. I've been married here for 20 years.But that isn't 20 years married to the same woman. My divorce cost me 2 houses and a Mitsibishi Pajero.... 

 

My mistake.

 

There will be no more losses of this nature. I upgraded to a much better model. I traded a slow, 'heavy',  chunky tank for a fiery, more reliable sleek beauty with a ton of horses under the hood. The small size doesn't mean you have to be delicate. On the contrary. No matter how hard you go, it just begs for more - far more than you could ever give....

 

Anyway,  I didn't learn anything from the divorce. I still do the same thing if financing comes up. Stay below the radar and all that! 

 

The good news to all you 'Roger the Tax Dodgers' is that offshore Income is recognised. They get it at the banks. Half of Thailand isn't paying tax and they will approve you as a guarantor based on offshore income that isn't well documented. As long as it is hitting a bank somewhere on earth.  Not only will they let you be guarantor based on fairly flimsy evidence, they understand that it would be 'inconvenient' should the revenue dept ever got wind of the real numbers.

 

Mum's the word. 

 

Bizarrely, I can also still be a guarantor after being a bum guarantor for the loand that wife 1.0 took out and couldn't pay off.

 

I said I lost the houses, I didn't say she got to keep them :-)

 

Anyway, all good. Apply for both financing Method. Better to have a spare. 

Ha yeah I know we are in Thailand, buyer beware!

I have been sending about $100,000 baht to her bank account for the past 6 months thinking that would somehow help. What amount of down payment is usually enough to pretty much get an easy loan, 25% down up to 50%? I just hate dealing with the normal attitude you get if you "don't buy today" we are careful with our purchases that is why we have money in the first place.

Also, what did they need to use you as a guarantor, passport, Visa, house book etc?

Hello I am looking for advice on the best way to finance a new vehicle, most likely a 2021 Isuzu D"Max. Is it best to go through the dealer or go to SCB or Kasikorn where we have our bank accounts? Also what is needed for proof of income? How do they determine or verify any or no credit history? Does my income help or is everything based on the Thai Citizens income and how do they determine what finance amount they qualify for? Every dealership we visit we get a different answer and none seem to really know what they are talking about.

Thanks in advance!

Hello I just bought  a new Yamaha MT-15 and got my second screw/nail in my tire most likely from some new construction near my home and want to either do a proper repair with a patch on the inside or put a new tire in hopes of not being stranded if the tire repair fails which the first one is already leaking. Where do you take yours? Everything was closed today and I don't remember seeing any proper equipment at either the Yamaha or Honda dealer and the tire is so stiff I can't see how I could get it off without moving the tire bead to the center of the inside of the rim to give enough room to use tire bar/spoons to do it myself, I have done car tires but was able to get the bead offset to give room to get it on the rim. I was able to squeeze the sidewalls together with a big C clamp so maybe that is the best option, just buy a bunch and try it myself. I have also seen videos using zip ties to keep the new tire squeezed together to put it on but getting the existing tire off is the current dilemma.

1 minute ago, tandor said:

...sounds exactly like my lot..keep your wits about you..stand your ground.

That is the hardest part, I am the rational one by staying away but I am sure that just fuels his delusions of being a big mafia guy! I am just tired of constantly having to back down for fear of the Thai revenge and probably what sparked all of this, it has just gotten really bad, not sure if it is the news or rubbish they see on Thai drama show, again, the "Just look at me wrong and I will stab or shoot you" 

I drive to take my daughter to school and just in the past 2 months I have seen to incidents, a lady plowed into a small tractor that was going slow and even staying as far as he could on the shoulder of the road but she exploded when she got out of her truck because it was his fault for not getting out of the way, what?? The other was 3 cars in what looked like a Nascar race, they were all on each others bumper and being really crazy. Finally one got bumped into the ditch and flipped the car many times, the driver was ejected, neither one of the other 2 cars stopped as expected! I think I will just become a hermit!

14 minutes ago, sillyfool said:

offer him a big hug ? ????

 

either one of you goes away or the problem it seems won't. when you keep butting heads with a thai ...sounds like you know where it leads. 

 

as hard as it might be moving away to another place in thailand with your gf and daughter that may be the solution. all be it the hardest choice to make it seems. maybe offer a gift basket to him as a way to make amends. 

 

 

good luck and stay safe. 

 

 

I know, funny but not funny, I have thought about that but realize it is never going to end with this guy, there will always be something to set him off and right now it's him bullying his mother for drug money, maybe wait it out to see where that goes but the girlfriend is the next target because he thinks I have vaults full of gold bars and he is entitled to as much as he want's!

5 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

Different situation to yours and not dangerous, but we had an older men chasing the 15yo daughter. The wife went to the District police office, not the local, and had an police agreement drawn up that he could not contact her or be within 500 metres of her. You say the local police are useless but the District office might help. If not the Provincial police office may be able to do something.

If your daughter is in danger from him they may do a similar agreement. It was all in Thai so cannot tell you what the document was but the title was

Thanks, not sure how that would work out, the mother lives across from the daughter and girlfriend on the same little Soi!

1 hour ago, amykat said:

I would think twice about trying so hard to put him in jail.  What do people learn in jail?  They learn how to become better criminals and get more criminal friends usually.  If this man is going to be in your family ...I would try a more long term approach and you would have some resentment to deal with after.  Plus, I don’t believe anyone will do it for this petty thing ...the family, the police, etc.

 

They might take your money, and then his Mom will just pay them more.  Which will probably come from you somehow.

I know, the Thai revenge thing for losing face, probably the worst thing about living here!

56 minutes ago, rwill said:

"I suppose you could try and find out who the creditor is on the bike and tell them where it is."

 

I have been trying but so far no luck, that was one of the purposes of the post, to email or pm the license number to someone here who has the means to do it, I was hoping that info is available when the police pull it up just like many other countries!

53 minutes ago, luk AJ said:

I think this is a dangerous situation which easily can escalate. I don’t believe that the suggestion to take daughter and wife to somewhere else is going to work. I expect she will refuse to leave her family. So there is unfortunately no easy solution. My recommendation is to get out now, create distance so you can calm down and assess the situation. Evaluate your options and hopefully find a way out.
I expect the family will deal with him.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Thanks, finally someone with some good input and based on your # of post, you have some experience and rationality, you are 100% on the family thing and they have a nice home there, the Grandfather is actually really great and helpful and agrees he should have beaten the brothers ass when he was very young and starting to become a troublemaker! Also I think the Grandfather finally gets it and the girlfriend is slowly coming around that the brother is not just crazy ting tong haha but criminally insane and has no sense of reality and nothing to lose by hurting anyone, no job, no money and a drug and alcohol addiction and they need to wake the heck up, also the mother is the brothers only source of income and that is very limited and she will get most of the daily abuse! Tomorrow we will try the issue with the motorbike since the value is way more than drugs and he has to produce some kind of paperwork to prove it's his and not stolen which he won't be able to do and hopefully a little ahem, friendly donation for doing such a standup job will help get him locked up where he needs to be and should have been years ago, some time in the monkey house will sort him out when he has to deal with bigger and badder psychopaths than him on a daily basis, I am sure he will turn into a lifer eventually in that environment!

2 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

I can't offer you any advice mate just deep sympathy for your terrible situation and moral support that you will be able to resolve this as cleanly as possible, I wish you all the best in the world and really hope that you can get this scumbag for as long as possible with a decent prison sentence.

 

Please keep us all posted.

Thanks man, this seems to be either a great place or a miserable place! Anyway, I like your name, do you know any Triads or Ninja's to sneak up and get him ha!

2 minutes ago, kellersphuket said:

it's a joke mr. serious. 

dont take everything to heart buddy.

16 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

I am sure everyone can relate a bit at what he is saying or at least understand his situation. Se what the GF can do talking and working something out with the cops. Best scenario besides moving out. 

With you on that, even then you really have to work hard to get them to see the plan! I am thinking the motorbike is the best strategy, take him and the bike, he has no proof it's his bike or he has no right to be using it and put it on him to prove it's his or he has the right to be riding it, that's how they have treated me for 500 baht to prove I own the bike. I made copies of my book and that was still not enough, they declared I had to always have the blue or green book I forget but eventually I had a Fino stolen, great for them, the book was under the seat so you can't win here!

7 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

I know you are incapacitated but some of us were brought to to take not sh#t from no one.

I hear you, funny but not funny, that's how I grew up, I have some great friends that we either verbally or physically sorted things out and all was good, not here though, maybe it's all the <deleted> they see on Thai TV shows, geez, really out of hand, look cross eyed at me and get shot or stabbed! After the actual brawl that is what I said to the family, dogs fight, cats fight, brothers fight, all to establish who is king of the hill, top of the food chain, he got choked out by an old man, just let it go and he moves on with his life, what's he going to do next, sprinkle magic Thai pixie dust on me!! Hence the beginning of the problem, for some reason I have seen it has gotten much worse with the Thai's and even the Thai's against other Thai's they will run you over with their SUV or car while your on a motorbike with children and have not even one singe regret until they get arrested, then just do a good job at the "Wai" and off they go to do it again but worse since they got away with it, there is no punishment here! I know it has gotten bad all over the world, like "End of Days" or some crazy movie but getting out of hand, life has no meaning anymore! About a year ago in Huay Kwang, we were in the food market at about 6pm, some young Thai guys had a dispute and made some guy look bad, they came back and right in front of a huge crowd walked up and slit a guys throat from ear to ear, with not sure what but he pretty much bled to death in under a minute, really gory and messed up, it was a reality wake up call where I am and I really do avoid much interaction with them! We can only put our tail between our legs due to the crazy culture for so long but yes, it leads to nothing good for us foreigners who have some morals, ethics, code whatever, I can't imagine pummelling someone smaller or even my size just out of spite, it's just out of control here!!

Thanks all, that did enter my mind before I let him go!! I hate to say the thought never entered my mind until now, it would probably cost me 10k baht to change a murder to self defense given the history of the situation vs 20k baht to have him disappear, I am just tired of having to put my tail between my legs with the other Thai encounters, wussy cowards and their 5 friends with machetes as revenge but in all reality, in military terms, take out the threat before the threat takes you out.

But in all seriousness 5k baht was what I was thinking but not to put him away for a few months, I need 5+ years so where does that fall on the menu? Ha, funny but not funny, life doesn't have much value.

Come on, anyone on this forum have some kind of connection that I can give the license plate number to? It would slow him down and take the wind out of his sails not having transportation if I could at least get the bike taken away, I can see screwing a foreigner but a Thai screwing one of their own is pretty bad!

I will try to keep this as short as possible but you need to get the background and the whole picture, yest it's a soap opera like many Thai families but the situation and become very serious and I need a solution fast!!! And come on people, save the typical bs banter, I am literally shaking in anger while having to write this for being at a dead end!! I am just looking for creative advice for getting rid of my Thai girlfriends derelict Thai brother. I have a Thai girlfriend that lives in a house I built for her and my daughter since her family lives there and there is a good school, also I can't tolerate the Thai family BS and drama, nor living with a Thai lady, they are about 10 minutes away and live alone during the week due to my work schedule and need for good internet. I have always gotten along well with my girlfriends father and his new wife who live next door, her mother lives across the street and I realized the mother is somewhere past Venus, along with the youngest sister who is also a derelict, alcoholic thief, but only shows up a few times a year to create family chaos. I had only heard about the younger brother, nothing good but also about 2 minutes after meeting him that he was an apple that didn't fall far from the tree.

So now to the point! The brother shows up 6 months ago declaring he is reformed and wants to become a monk, also as a peace gesture he want's me to take care of his 2017 Yamaha M-Slaz! I immediately thought, "how and where did he get credit or the means to buy a 90,000 baht motorbike" A few weeks later he tries to say I can have his loan transferred in my name, no problem, ah no I think I will pass. Then a week later he needs 20,000 baht because he want's to be truthful and is 5 months behind on the payments, riiiight let me just run down to the closest ATM, how about I give you 30,000 so you have some money for some crazy monk, hooker blow type ceremony! So on to the big ceremony and collecting some quick cash, a month later he now declares he is not meant to be a monk, big surprise huh, I suspected that from the beginning. So the mother welcomes him in her home with open arms, it took him about 2 hours to fun off and indulge in booze, whores and the drug ïce". Since hour one he has been verbally abusive to the mother, sister, father, my daughter for whatever he wants and explodes if he doesn't get what he want's. I have tried to reason with the family which as normal turns a cheek. I told the family to also read about the traits of a psychopath, of the 20 I could find he met 19 of them but I had never really seen him explode in anger.

A few months ago the family got him a good job, (which he got fired from and didn't tell the family until they put pressure on him as to where is his salary going) then about a month ago my daughter and I ran into him in 7-11, I was at the checkout trying to pay attention to my wallet, paying the cashier and the brother who instead of a nice greeting he picks up some items and he is talking to my daughter and I have no clue what he is saying but he seemed immune to my daughter who is moving behind me, I know it seems minor but if you are a father to a daughter and see fear in her eyes for the first time, you can relate!! So I brush it off and she seems fearful to tell me clearly what he said other than he wanted me to pay for his stuff. So I got her home so she could talk with her mom and explain what he said which was the same, he wanted her to pay for his stuff and he kept bullying her and was not taking no for an answer since we are foreigners and have vaults full of gold (you get the point) I was probably the most furious I have ever been in my life but my girlfriend just said to calm down and not do what should normally be done and the typical explanation that you don't confront Thai's nor point out they have done wrong because he will just explode and do the typical cowardly, wussy Thai thing and get 5 friends, or 5 friends with the great Thai machete to make sure they are not made to look even worse. Then a few weeks later my girlfriend called crying and said the brother just walked right into her house and grabbed my pressure washer to wash his Yamaha M-Slaz (more on that shortly) when he already asked and I refused since why does he need to wash what is in reality a stolen motorcycle. Turns out the boss from his previous job co signed a loan for him and he soon ran off with the motorbike to some other city outside of Bangkok before coming to our city. Also I remembered hearing bits of how he did the same to the older sister and she got stuck for around 80,000 worth of payments so her credit wouldn't get ruined, so obviously he is getting good at it, why pay when you can get it for free.

So now to the current situation. I go early to take my daughter to school and my girlfriend picks her up since I then sleep because I work at night, Thai time. It's been building up with his abusive behavior to his mother and anyone else who doesn't cower at his feet in fear of his abuse and temper. Since the 7-11 incident I have treated him like he is invisible which only fueled his fury and anger, he started whistling very loudly whenever he saw I was at my daughters house, not like a song but like he was calling his bird, or dog, I just finally realized this guy is not just crazy, but bats*&T crazy and should be in a mental hospital, dead or in jail. I showed up last Sunday and the same thing, he tried to bully my girlfriend to use the pressure washer, so yes I was a bit miffed to say the least. He shows up about an hour later and in my best Thai I told him not to ask to use any of my s&*t and not to even think about my s*(t and to stop bullying my girlfriend, his sister! He explodes and the drama starts, I try to laugh, pretty much "who are you to tell me what to do, I'll teach you, kind of like a road rage incident, he is sheltered by a car and is a big bad, dangerous man blah blah. So yes maybe I became a bit irrational being tired of this bs Thai thing, God forbid you tell them they did something wrong or make them look or feel bad, the rest of the world just deals with it but there seems to be some kind of bubble here. So I walk out of my gate and he gets worse and walks over to grab one of those 3-4ft slabs of wood they use to make fences and stuff with, picks it up and is now threatening me with it, so I show him I have no weapon, he doesn't need a weapon, be a man, one on one, condio you yet pet. So by now half the family and neighborhood is outside or near us trying to calm the situation. So he continues the drama, hops on his bike, I thought oh geez, I am going to die today, thinking he is going to get a gun. So the father and girlfriend and trying to calm me down and I am furious but half laughing. I see him down the street at a friends house, trying to recruit him I guess but no luck. He comes back, I gesture my crying like a little baby which was not so genius. So this time he actually picks up the wood again and is walking toward me ready to swing, my daughter is standing in front of me terrified and crying, the father is to my right, also in line of fire, my girlfriend is in front of my trying to tell me to calm down and let it go so she is oblivious to what is about to happen. So anyway I have to push my daughter to the ground and push the girlfriend out of the way and dive in and take a few hits of him swinging at my head which I heard but did not see the stick, I got ahold of his head and luckily got him in a choke hold for about 8 seconds and actually felt bad and thought about spending the next 20 years in Thai prison for killing some poor Thai a-hole maniac.

So now I back off and try to assess the situation while the father and girlfriend are trying to calm me down and worst of all and the whole purpose of this post, my daughter is hanging on to be crying and terrified having to see all this so I pick her up and move back behind our fence. I immediately got my motorbike and tried to convey as good as possible that I just need to go away and calm down and also get my daughter the heck of there which succeeded. We drove to his ex bosses business since I buy a lot of stuff from him and we already talked about his behavior the reason he was fired was due to theft and drug abuse, also he could not get along with anyone. Also we have a few police friend who all played the part but are now useless. We then go with the ex boss to the main police station, the officer on duty could barely lift his head up from chatting on facebook or playing juju I have no clue but we explained the situation as another officer came into the room and the first officer just went back to doing whatever he was doing and I just thought <deleted>, some psychopath just tried to kill me and my young daughter and none of them gave a rats butt and said "Oh you have to fill out a form some thing something blah blah" I just shook my head and left, not sure why I thought it would be any different. In the meantime the brother went off to hide but showed up late in the evening to the mothers house with open arms, nice loyalty, put a thief, drug addict psychopath above your vulnerable granddaughter! 

So here we are, you hopefully can empathize and get the gravity of the situation, I am obviously not in Kansas anymore! I need some good advice, there has to be some people on this board that have lived here long enough to know how to deal with the BS and red tape and have a solution or someone I can contact with the authorities so as not to create heat for any officers here who haven't done their job and make more problems for myself since this is no my country! Do I need to give the police some kind of financial motivation, not bribery but it seems to work for traffic related stuff which is minor in this case? My girlfriend filed a report and now a week later the brother is still free and nothing has been done other than a visit to the brothers and mothers home and I was told he saw them and ran off into the nearby fields, so they had the motorbike, with just the license plate but no little paper yearly thing that I have been cited for not having on my bike when I lived in BKK, they confiscated my bike and ID until I could produce the tag thing but nothing to him, absolutely nothing, it's a a disgrace but no surprise, I even called the tourist police, same thing, just a waste of time!! Also I have the license number of the bike, so in addition does anyone have the contacts or resources to track the owner of the motorbike if I email or PM it to them? The brother has no book, documentation, no ID and still nothing was done, I was told "Gee, the owner or cosigner of the bike must not have filed a theft complaint" The older sister who actually owns the home the mother and brother live in and same story, "Mama won't do nothing so what can I do" I have pics of the brother, bike etc but at my wits end, this guy is dangerous and a future confrontation is unavoidable, I have stayed away at the request of the family to "Take care of things" <deleted> I am the bad guy and have to live like a fugitive and can't even visit my daughter at her own house and have to also fear for her safety, I have slept about an hour this whole week, if I could I would be on the next plane out of her with my daughter but that is never going to happen, she is not going to be separated from her mother, I can just imagine even if I could having a young daughter crying and screaming for her mother and trying to get her on a plane, that would go well!

So anyway, please someone reach out and give me some solution other than just "It's Thailand, what are you going to do" bs there has to be something that can be done.

Thanks in advance and again no negative bs unproductive banter, it could happen to any of us with a permanent connection to a Thai and Thailand and yes the post is long, just posting "A-hole uncle tries to knock me out with a board" is not going to lead to any solution!!!

Hey all, I know this is probably not the first post on this subject, but I have 2 more years of a very lucrative work contract and pretty much need to stay in Thailand 2 more years. But, the typical story, I got involved with a Thai lady and have heard all the advice and BS, but ignore it, ALL Thai women are greedy and lead into a life full of endless BS!! I have seen many post's but later read the OP's threads about how the Thai lady demands this or that, and the Foreigner just gives in and does whatever the Thai lady request's just to keep her! That is the other side of the coin, come on man, a 10-20 year lady is not with a foreign guy for his toned bodybuilder body, it's all about the money, when the money stops, no more honey and the lady is gone 98% of the time and yes, my lady is not nearly as difficult but it is also, if she doesn't ask for money, she is after ALL your money and just a tactic which I have seen pay off in the long run, a 70+ year old guy doesn't have a much more life expectancy and they see it like a vulture see's it's prey!

Anyway I am somewhat in the same situation, and even with all protection short of a latex body covering is not going to prevent pregnancy, so I am stuck with a nice girl with our child now,which is great, but as normal it comes with the typical Thai family that has fairytale expectation's from the urban legends of the falong who in reality spent his whole life savings to keep the Thai lady BS. It's just endless BS pretty much the same as "my dog ate my homework" high school girl BS and they actually think they are pulling one over on us! The same with vendors or retail stores, "oh no, that bad, need this one" of course the most expensive and worst built that half the time breaks down and has to be replaced!

I guess the solution is to have as little interaction with the Thai people, even the Thai's at my work with Master Degree's are still uncivilized by western standards.

OK, enough rant, give me the real or delirious responses "but my lady is different", whatever, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it's safe to say it's a duck!

Hello does anyone have any info or experience shipping new and used auto parts into Thailand? I need some suspension and body parts, probably $8,000 in parts to restore and old VW beetle. Also is it any easier to ship small parts, door handles, gauges periodically?

Thanks in advance!

Hello all, who has experience getting a replacement debit card from the US? My Bank and from what I found out won't send a new card to Thailand because customs scans it and the magnetic strip sets off some kind of scanner and they hold the package. I am having a replacement card sent to a family member in the US and am trying to see if the can FedEx or DHL it to Thailand? I have also read that wrapping it in aluminum foil keeps if from setting off the scanner, but what would happen if they open the package anyway? Or maybe send it with a phone or other small electronic device and just put the card in the box?

I am grasping at straws at this point, I have been travelling for years and never had this problem so I have not been concerned about it and have a few other cards but this is the main account to get funds from. I even trying doing a transfer electronically to my Bangkok Bank account and also tried to send it through Paypal but it doesn't seem to show up in my account, I am assuming they have some kind of block for incoming funds even though I used the routing number for the NY Bk Bank branch!

Thanks in advance!

I arrived back in Thailand recently only to discover the debit card from my main account has a defective or demagnetized strip. I would be a nightmare to get a replacement card anytime soon.

Does anyone know what Banks in Thailand would do a cash advance or withdrawal from my Visa debit card by keying in the numbers on the card since the strip is useless? I tried Bangkok Bank where I have an account and a few other Banks only to be pretty much treated like a criminal who is trying to BS the Banks and steal money.

I cannot make electronic transfers with the account that this card is connected to, so even sending money through Paypal or another account is useless. Any advice would be helpful as to what Banks would do a keyed transaction with a Debit card!

Thanks

Anyone know if they have the shuttle bus or vans that run from Mo Chit BTS or wherever to the Motor Show at Impact?

Last year they had one and also some Vans that you could catch from Victoria Monument area but with the protestors, everything is a mess!

Thanks

Can anyone tell me the location of the current Bangkok, Thai Passport Office, I find only old information on the internet,

Thanks,

Thanks everyone, good stuff, it's not as bad as I thought, I have been reading through the Embassy and Consulate websites and most of the info and docs are there, so I will keep at it!

It will be good to be back in the US even with all the negatives and problems of living in the US!

I have been trying to read through the posts and do a search but there is a lot of info to sort through that really may not apply so I am starting a new thread.

I am an American 45, with a Thai girlfriend 25, we have a 2 year old daughter born in Thailand. I have been out of the US for 7 years travelling, I have been using my parents address in Nebraska to receive mail, but have not lived in the US for 7 years, I have shown no income in the US for 7 years, I have recently started in independent consultant job so I am showing payroll deposits to my Thai Bank account.

So the dilemma and question, I want to move back to live in the US but am looking for what obstacles I am up against for getting a Fiance Visa, or getting Married and getting a spousal Visa, which I have heard is NOT the route to take.

Has anyone been successful or not successful and why, in regards to getting a US Fiance Visa for a Thai woman? I have been trying to find info, but nothing regarding what may be the deal breaker, lack of recent income, no recent US living history, not much money in a Bank account etc.

I am not looking for responses and questions why I am in this life situation, just solid advice based on recent experience dealing with US Immigration, or applying or getting issued a US Fiance Visa, I am sure you all understand why!!

Thanks in advance!