Globalist

"Political correctness" : A phrase predominantly used by people who tend to blame external forces for their own failures or shortcomings.

Most people misunderstand this news.

It's about:

1) Condo developers with many unsold units in their buildings and decide to use at least 4 such units to operate as a hotel

and

2) Condo unit owners that own at least 4 units in the same building and operate those as a hotel

Such activity requires a hotel license according to the Hotel Act.

"Short term rental" and "Thai laws followed" are contradictions in buildings registered as condominiums. By law, short term rentals are not permitted in registered condominiums.

Regardless of what CC&R amendments have been approved, the minority of owners that don't want these rentals in their building could rat out the owners that are doing short term rentals, subjecting them to the penalties as defined in the law.

Incorrect. There is no such law in Thailand.

Maybe you should educate the Vice Governor, the Phuket Land Office Acting Chief, the MoI and the PPO on that point.

From the OP:

'Mr Wisith told The Phuket News this week, “We want to let developers and owners know that renting out condos on a daily basis is against the Hotel Act and that they must operate their condos in accordance with how their properties are registered in order to avoid legal action.'

'Mr Wisith explained to The Phuket News that the problem lies in that if a property is registered with the Land Department as a condo, then it cannot be registered as a hotel.

“And a condo must be operated as a condo, which can be rented out for periods of 30 days or longer – but cannot be rented out on a daily basis,” he said.'

The Hotel Act of 2004 (which they reference) and the Condominium Act are components of Thai law.

Yes, they may very well be in need of education.

I have read those acts. Have you?

"Short term rental" and "Thai laws followed" are contradictions in buildings registered as condominiums. By law, short term rentals are not permitted in registered condominiums.

Regardless of what CC&R amendments have been approved, the minority of owners that don't want these rentals in their building could rat out the owners that are doing short term rentals, subjecting them to the penalties as defined in the law.

Incorrect. There is no such law in Thailand.

The hi-so hotel owners of Thailand must have lobbied the powers that be because of falling tourism and the rise of Air BnB etc.

Indeed it does seem quite likely that the push comes from wealthy hotel owners/operators. In Thailand, laws are not infrequently enforced for the convenience of some individual or group, rather than by principle.

In the article, there's a lot of references to acts being illegal, while explicit references to specific clauses of the law are notably missing.

For example, the statement that “a condo...can be rented out for periods of 30 days or longer – but cannot be rented out on a daily basis".

There's actually no such stipulation in the Condo act.

And as to the Hotel act, it would be interesting to know exactly which aspect is infringed. There's a duty to inform authorities about unlicensed operation due to legal exception, but condo owners may in principle have done that.

It's common knowledge at least since 2013 that vitamin supplements are at best a waste of money and at worst carcinogenic.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vitamin-pills-are-a-waste-of-money-offer-no-health-benefits-and-could-be-harmful-study-9010303.html

So, the best value-for-money multi-vitamin is "food".

Microsoft Surface

Thanks for the quick reply, but I have no use at all for a tablet unless it was to read books, I hate touch screens, plus I need a computer with a keyboard since all my work is technical.

Also my wife never bothers with her tablet anymore since she got a Samsung 6.

What I really need to know is can Amazon Kindle Books be downloaded and read from a normal laptop?

If this is not practical, are you saying that the Microsoft Surface tablet is better than a Kindle Paper White for reading Amazon Kindle books?

I'm sorry, my response was to the OP.

There is a Kindle app for Win 8 which probably works on Win 10 too. But my opinion on "electronic reading" is that Kindles are far better on the eyes long term, due to optimized technology for reading.

Personally I prefer listening for leisure nowadays, through Audible (owned by Amazon).

Microsoft Surface

I believe the relevant term for taxation purposes is "domecile" rather than "residence".

Each country has its own rules to governing domecile.

The US' rule is easy; every US citizen is considered domeciled in the US no matter where they live or for how long.

European countries' rules are typically different, and the UK's rules are likely rather complicated as that's how they like to do things.

So I think it's a matter of decoding those rules, potentially with the assistance of a UK tax lawyer.

Unfortunately, a number of CJPs in BKK have started to spread incorrect information about "Thai law" and rental duration.

Thai law, including the Thai Condominium Act, does not regulate the duration of rental agreements between co-owners of condos and their tenants.

In fact, it doesn't even mention rental at all.

It doesn't, but the hotel act seems to. And the condo act is quite clear about businesses only being allowed in areas of the building that are specifically designated for this, and also about co-owners being able to enjoy their property in peace and without disturbance.

It seems to me that short-term rentals by their very nature are indeed both a business and a nuisance. As such they should not take place in condo buildings.

No. The hotel act isn't applicable either, unless you have a significant number of units in the same building.

And what the condo act says about "business" has no bearing on the term of a rental contract.

It's understandable that people can see short term condo rental as a nuisance, but that's an opinion and not the law.

I advise those who want to regulate short-term rentals to influence the CJP bylaws and see if they can get a relevant majority on their side.

The hotel act is applicable as even with just one room you are supposed to register yourself, though you dont have to obey all the rules concerning hotels.

What the condo act has to say about businesses is definitely applicable as short-term rentals are by definition a business, which is why the

hotel act applies to them.

Businesses are not legal in condos outside of specific areas in the building that are set aside for businesses. I see no need to look any further.

"short-term rentals are by definition a business"

Is that so?

As you may be aware, the vast majority of owners of new condos in Bangkok (especially Thais but also non-Thais) buy to let.

Are you saying that there's a specific "magic" rental contract duration, below which the renting action by these owners suddenly turns into a "business", while it's not to be seen as a "business" above that limit?

Why exactly would it not be a "business" above a certain limit? What might that magical limit be? And where might it be stipulated?

Again, while agree with you about the problems with short-term rentals, please distinguish between own opinions and actual law. The OP asked about the law.

Unfortunately, a number of CJPs in BKK have started to spread incorrect information about "Thai law" and rental duration.

Thai law, including the Thai Condominium Act, does not regulate the duration of rental agreements between co-owners of condos and their tenants.

In fact, it doesn't even mention rental at all.

It doesn't, but the hotel act seems to. And the condo act is quite clear about businesses only being allowed in areas of the building that are specifically designated for this, and also about co-owners being able to enjoy their property in peace and without disturbance.

It seems to me that short-term rentals by their very nature are indeed both a business and a nuisance. As such they should not take place in condo buildings.

No. The hotel act isn't applicable either, unless you have a significant number of units in the same building.

And what the condo act says about "business" has no bearing on the term of a rental contract.

It's understandable that people can see short term condo rental as a nuisance, but that's an opinion and not the law.

I advise those who want to regulate short-term rentals to influence the CJP bylaws and see if they can get a relevant majority on their side.

Unfortunately, a number of CJPs in BKK have started to spread incorrect information about "Thai law" and rental duration.

Thai law, including the Thai Condominium Act, does not regulate the duration of rental agreements between co-owners of condos and their tenants.

In fact, it doesn't even mention rental at all.

However, a CJP may regulate rental duration in the CJP's bylaws, which is an entirely different matter.

Changes to CJP bylaws require a majority or perhaps even a qualified majority vote.

My understanding is the minimum rental period for a condo under the condominium act is 30 days. The condo I lease encourages reporting violators to the Juristic so they can shut off their water.

Your understanding is wrong.

There is no stipulation whatsoever about tenancy term in the Thai Condominimum Act.

Coffee is nowdays regarded as having health benefits overall, provided that it's quality coffee (a good espresso variant), and that it's taken in moderation.

I've had gastritis-type problems too, but quality espresso works just fine. So I'd suggest to first try drinking ONLY good espresso, ONLY one a day, and ONLY after food.

If that doesn't work, Matcha (Japanese "tea ceremony" tea), as some suggested, may be an option.

"Deputy Prime Minister Somkid Jatusripitak earlier said the revenue would be used to fund agricultural development."

Wow, that's so progressive! Exactly what Thailand needs in the year 2016.

Bangkok should of done it for you. A bit of confusion perhaps on what class of visa you were applying for.

Jomtien was also wrong. The rule clearly state it can be a combination totaling 10 million baht..Perhaps go back and ask to talk to a supervisor.

Yes, but please note that there are a couple of "rules" that immigration officers use for the 10M extension:

- You have to apply in the province where your condo is located.

- In case you use 2 or more condos to make up the 10M, then all the condos have to be in the same province.

These "rules" are not found in the police order, but are now standard practice in Thailand.

Also, someone had a question about the bank for the bond option. In principle, the shareholding should be >50% Thai (whatever that means for a SET listed company). Unfortunately, some immigration officers are adamant that only a 100% owned bank may be used. They are wrong, but it can be hard to argue.

I think very few 10M applicants go down the bond route at all, since one or more condos in top notch locations is likely to be a more attractive investment.

I tried this route ten years ago for a condo which cost me 17 million. Immigration at Bangkok were adamant that to qualify you must purchase the condo from the original landowner. Developers purchase the land for their projects from the original landowner or landowners, so even a new build or off plan purchase will not qualify. Second hand purchases definitely do not qualify.

That may possibly have been the case ten years ago, but it is absolutely not the case today.

The present tense phrasing "will not qualify" is therefore, at best, unhelpful.

I've only tried True Fitness a couple of times. While the Asok location is great, I wasn't impressed by the state and maintenance of their machines.

A high percentage of them of them appear to be broken at any given time.

Seems expensive for what you get. But then again there are even more expensive gyms in BKK.

Hi CpKt8

Thanks. I think we are getting a bit sidetracked here. Maybe I need to change the thread title.

I want definitive answer to the whether the 10m condo purchase must be from a developer OR NOT

There is no suggestion on ANY official docs I have seen that this is the case (i.e that it MUST be from a developer).

Let's see if anyone knows.

Of course, I can start ringing laywers just thought that maybe ThaiVisa posters might have evidence/ experience before I do so

It needs to be purchased directly from developer (i.e. off-plan or pre-deeds-transfer re-sale).

OP see my PM.

To the OP:

Ubonjoe is 100% correct.

However, note that:

- the condos must be purchased directly from the developer, i.e. you must be the first deeds-holder, and

- if you have 2 or more condos to make up the 10M, then they have to be located the same province (this is a "policy" of most Thai immigration officers, although not stated in the police order)

Short term rentals

There is nothing about this in the Condominium Act.

Short-term rentals are a business and the section of the Condo Act that I quoted forbids the operation of any business (trade) outside of areas specified by the co-owners in their rules and regs (by-laws). It is very clear.

Its not that clear actually.

CA section 17/1 is not explicitly about governing rental of the premises itself.

Furthermore, who is to decide what kind of rental is a "business" and what is not? For example, is renting out for 6 months "business", but 3 months, 1 month or 2 weeks is not? Where is the threshold?

In fact, all kinds of property rental is arguably "business", even a 5-year contract.

The CA does not seem to be an obvious legal basis for preventing "short-term rentals" (whatever that is).

It can however be prevented through changing the CJP bylaws, although the enforcement situation may be a little complex.

I had the same interest, but couldn't find any either. Maybe the clientele - foreigners in BKK wanting business visa to CN - are too few for local agents to bother about.

On the other hand, the new CN visa application centre in the Thanaphum Bulding on New Petchaburi Road is a quite pleasant and seems more efficient than the old one at Rama 9.

I went a weekday late morning and amazingly had my application filed within 15 min!

In my experience, TOT ADSL is more stable than True Cable for Internet access. That may however be due to True upgrading the network a lot, causing outages.

I have not tried fibre from any ISP.

Regarding speed, it's perhaps not that important unless you mainly access Thai servers, given that the Thai international gateway is the bottleneck anyway.

Regarding short term rentals, I have not seen anything in the condomunium act that governs the length of a rental contract.

The CJP of a condo building could through majority decision change the CJP bylaws to disallow short-term rental, but that's another issue.