ldnguy

@ BuaBS (i'm bored w/ the BS too) I could do Hungary or Czech, but visa's for a yank might be hard to come by. I've been researching Taiwan and Portugal.

Panama, Ecuador, Columbia and Chile are options, but they aren't known for fast internet.

How about USA? Wherever you go the NSA will be spying on you, so you can't really run away from that.

Fact, if and when this single gateway is implemented, my business with be relocated to an another country.

How will it affect your business? I guess anyone doing dodgy stuff must be the most worried.

Not everyone is doing 'dodgy' stuff. But I can see how your 'Thai mindset' would want to make yourself 'appear' better than a lowly farang.

You see, many of us don't like your culture. It's not that we came here hating Thailand, it's the racist and xenophobic nature of the Thai populous that has created the disdain. A single gateway would be the camel's straw.

I know not everyone is doing dodgy stuff. I said those that do are the most worried.

By the way I'm not Thai.

If you don't like Thailand then why haven't you left? I mean this as a genuine question. Before moving here I lived in Spain for a year. I didn't really like it so I left. I didn't make a song and dance out it, but just moved on. Life's too short to stay somewhere you don't like. I'm just baffled by why so many stay in a place they claim not to like. Surely you'd be happier moving to a country you liked.

Anybody with any real sense would rent in these current conditions. I am a purchaser of condos for the long haul. I waited 12 years to buy my first properties here which came about because of the favourable exchange rate after the Asian crisis (and the significant divergence with uk property in prime areas). Bargains. I got impatience and bought another when the property frenzy took hold around 2007 not in a Top area and outside Bangkok, mistake. Don't expect to make much on it..I am close to buying again when sterling hits 58, the baht gets to 40..second hand condos in areas I know and buildings I know, with high Thai occupancy.

Not sue what you mean by "these current conditions", but exchange rate is good right now and there are some properties I've seen that are available at good prices. Like you I think I'll jump in if GBP gets to anywhere near 60. It was 46 when I first came to Thailand, so a 15 million house now costs £273K instead of £326K. So that's down £53K. Seems like quite a bargain to me. Of course, prices could go a little low, but wit the GBP so strong I think the risk is very limited. In any case, it would be a home not an investment so wouldn't really matter if prices dropped.

Go for it, if it something you really want, as long as it's not a high proportion of your total wealth.

Current conditions - rentals very cheap harder to justify buying, plus there is so much crap going on in this country at the moment.

If you really want go for it, underbid, don't be afraid to walk away..everything in your favour..Thai property can be one of the most illiquid assets out there and as said on other threads the company route may leave you open to some risk I for one would never use it, but each to his own.

Of course you already know all the short comings of buying a landed property.

Just know all the facts and make an intelligent guess.

60 doubtful but if things carry one the same, interest rates rise early next year who knows. In my eyes 60 is a " gift" that won't last too long.

Good luck, if it goes " tits" up later. You can write about it on here and get loads of sympathy !

Is it a Villa?

It would be in Bangkok so might be a townhouse or possibly a detached house, which I'd prefer. Depends what comes up. Townhouses I've seen would be easy to rent out if renovated due to the areas I'd buy in. Not much downside risk that I can see. But life is a risk. I wouldn't buy via company, so would put in wife's name. I know some will ask what happens if she leaves me, well I guess she'll get the house. I wouldn't want that to happen but that's life. After all, it's only money.

Well, there aren't many people in the whole world that can afford to buy a new house every time they move. There must be about 30 million houses in Thailand. They can't just be abandoned or knocked down every time someone wants to move. Do you think someone's going to by a 15 million house then if they need to over in a few year jut abandon it (because of the claim no-one will but because it's old) and then just fork out another 15 million for the next house. The people on here that think Thais do that are completely bonkers. Thai people do not abandoned old houses at all. They buy and sell them just like we do in the West. And yes, they do sell if priced correctly.

Most of the Thais I know, have a house worth 500k, sitting on a bit of land worth 1M (tops).

It costs the same as a new car to build a new house on the old land.

15M ...... you gotta be joking.

Come to Bangkok and you'll see plenty. But the same principle still applies. For someone that can only afford a 500K house, how can they abandon it and buy a new one every time they want to move. The whole thing myth about Thais not buying non-new houses is just ridiculous. Most Thais buy non-new houses, not new ones.

Easy to get around it, so what's the problem?

In any case, this is my home so why would I move elsewhere? If this was introduced in the USA do you think 350 million people would leave? For 99.99% of people it's not an issue at all. Not everyone builds their life around the internet and needs access to all of the few billion pages out there. Surely you can live without a handful of the millions of site out there. While I don't like the idea of blocking sites, why should I give up a good life for the sake of a few websites? To leave your home over this seems like a huge over-reaction to me. This is just one small thing in life. Surely there's more to life than the internet.

Some of you make fun of Thais only using facebook, etc, but many on here are even worse. You want to give up your home because you may not have access to a few sites.

Maybe many of you don't even realise how much western governments hide from you? You don't have access to that information either. It's blocked!

Fact, if and when this single gateway is implemented, my business with be relocated to an another country.

How will it affect your business? I guess anyone doing dodgy stuff must be the most worried.

My Kindle is a few years old and the battery doesn't last anywhere as long as it used to. So beware of that if buying a secondhand Kindle. It's still ok, as I only re-charge every few days, but when new I only had to re-charge once a month or so,

Anybody with any real sense would rent in these current conditions. I am a purchaser of condos for the long haul. I waited 12 years to buy my first properties here which came about because of the favourable exchange rate after the Asian crisis (and the significant divergence with uk property in prime areas). Bargains. I got impatience and bought another when the property frenzy took hold around 2007 not in a Top area and outside Bangkok, mistake. Don't expect to make much on it..I am close to buying again when sterling hits 58, the baht gets to 40..second hand condos in areas I know and buildings I know, with high Thai occupancy.

Not sue what you mean by "these current conditions", but exchange rate is good right now and there are some properties I've seen that are available at good prices. Like you I think I'll jump in if GBP gets to anywhere near 60. It was 46 when I first came to Thailand, so a 15 million house now costs £273K instead of £326K. So that's down £53K. Seems like quite a bargain to me. Of course, prices could go a little low, but wit the GBP so strong I think the risk is very limited. In any case, it would be a home not an investment so wouldn't really matter if prices dropped.

Lots of Thais buy older houses and they live in them without renovating. It's a myth that Thais don't buy older houses.

I suppose there' nt much you can do about foreigners that overpay. Their choice.

It depends on which socio-economic section you are referring to. Thais don't buy older houses by choice, but because they can't afford new ones.

Having seen a number of houses and condos under construction, I'm not surprised they'd prefer new. Some of them are put together with toad shit and sealing wax, designed to fall apart in about 15 years.

Excuse me for being cynical. However, I see a number of claims on Thai Visa that so-and-so is profiting very well from the Thai stock market, or dealing in real estate, etc.etc. Short of seeing audited financial statements from these gentlemen, there is no way of knowing whether what they say is true, or if they are just bullshit artists.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just a stupid falang who keeps his money in his pocket and rents.

Well, there aren't many people in the whole world that can afford to buy a new house every time they move. There must be about 30 million houses in Thailand. They can't just be abandoned or knocked down every time someone wants to move. Do you think someone's going to by a 15 million house then if they need to over in a few year jut abandon it (because of the claim no-one will but because it's old) and then just fork out another 15 million for the next house. The people on here that think Thais do that are completely bonkers. Thai people do not abandoned old houses at all. They buy and sell them just like we do in the West. And yes, they do sell if priced correctly.

The is quite a market, especially among younger Thais, to buy and renovate townhouses. Not because they can't afford new, but because they like the townhouses and want to retain some of the better older buildings. It's the same in most of the world. I've seen plenty of people buying older houses because of the location not because they can't afford new. In central Bangkok, for example, there isn't much space to build new houses.

But farangs in particular seem to overpay for property here. Locals seem to understand the pricing much better.

Yes, they certainly do. It's called Thai price and falang price. I suspect any Thai who sold property to a falang at the Thai price would be scorned by his/her peers as a poor business person.

The other factor is whether the property is new or old. Thais won't buy an old house, at the very least it has to be fully renovated. The price goes way down for an old property; however, falangs think they are getting a good deal at double the market.

I live in a condo where the falang price for a studio apartment ranges from 1.5 to 2 million baht. No Thai would pay more than 1 million.

I do not know where you are ,but over the years my wife has sold to Thai and Falang , there are only two times when priced are higher and this goes for anybody , when the seller is an idiot and wants far to much and if the condo is in a foreign name , and then it is often a little higher , 99% of the foreigners she sells to are well clued up and will only pay the going price , anyone who pays 1.5 to 2 million for a condo worth 1 million is an idiot ,unfortunatly there are very very few of those buying lol or she would be laughing

I agree. If this was the case I'd get my gf to buy for 1 million and sell for 1.5 million. She could buy one every day. But it's not true.

Bazza40 - if you think it's true, do as I suggest. I'll give you a 10% cut. You should be rich if you know exactly where this is happening. So I suspect you're misinformed or possibly just making it up. If only it was that easy to make 0.5 to 1 million.

But farangs in particular seem to overpay for property here. Locals seem to understand the pricing much better.

Yes, they certainly do. It's called Thai price and falang price. I suspect any Thai who sold property to a falang at the Thai price would be scorned by his/her peers as a poor business person.

The other factor is whether the property is new or old. Thais won't buy an old house, at the very least it has to be fully renovated. The price goes way down for an old property; however, falangs think they are getting a good deal at double the market.

I live in a condo where the falang price for a studio apartment ranges from 1.5 to 2 million baht. No Thai would pay more than 1 million.

Lots of Thais buy older houses and they live in them without renovating. It's a myth that Thais don't buy older houses.

I suppose there' nt much you can do about foreigners that overpay. Their choice.

Not just that, even if rent stays the same for 25 years and property values do not appreciate, after 25 years you would have paid off the house, so from then on, you live rent free and have an asset worth several millions that you can sell or use as collateral when taking a loan.

Assuming you live another 25 years.

Assuming you don't get too old/infirm/senile, and have to return to your home country for long term health care.

Assuming you don't get deported and black listed.

Assuming you have 800kbht in the bank to get a VISA.

I dunno, but some people might think buying in a country where you have no right to live might be somehow foolish.

If anyone who buys doesn't live for 25 years it will be completely irrelevant to them because they'll be dead. They will most likely have a will, so that side of things would be taken care of. No reason for them to get deported or blacklisted. I assume they have the 800K sorted as well otherwise they wouldn't buy in the first place. But if they don't have the 800K they'd have the same problem if they rented.

It's not for you though, so I'd advise you stay away. Far too dangerous for someone like you to be in Thailand. Best that you sit at home and keep worrying while the rest of us enjoy our lives.

You seem to be a very shallow thinker,

If you aren't going to last 25 years, leaving your money for someone else to spend is a bit of a waste.

There is a civil war coming,I can see them chucking all foreigners out, not to mention VISA rules change, police plant drugs, you can break minor laws, annoy the wrong person, etc.

You'd be surprised how many Thai wives convince their husbands to spend that 800k they have in the bank, can't have it in the bank and buy a house with it..

My wife has a very nice house,I'm happy to repay the home loan for her (while I'm living in it), it's a little bit like rent.

But I guess too many foreigners marry girls who have no credit.

You're worrying about things that will likely never happen. No point in doing that.

I'm not sure what 800K you're talking about, but if you mean the money for retirement visa purposes, I also spend mine every year. Not because I have a wife that tells me to but because I can't live on nothing. Before my renewal I replace it. I don't see what's wrong with that.

Glad to hear that your wife has a nice house. But if you think of paying the mortgage as paying rent to your wife it doesn't sound like a great marriage. It's certainly not the sort of marriage I'd want.

I agree that many foreigners marry women with no credit, but that's up to them. I don't really care what others do.

unless you get a super buy, at well below market value, why tie up yor money in a condo. Rent is better, ...no worries if you want to move .. just give notice and you are gone. If you own you have to worry about it selling most likely before you can move and like now, it may not be a good time to sell.

It does not take much to make a place not desirable any more, ... a bad neighbor, a noisy business, construction, not to mention dealing with the co-owners about common areas, .. maintenence costs, .... if you rent a place and want to do improvements to pleas yorself the owner will most likely be all for it as long as you are paying

And what if you pay good money to renovate and then the owner doesn't renew your contract? Anyway, I doubt very much that any owner I've rented from so far would let me rip everything out and renovate to my design, even if I was paying. It obviously suits you, so that's great. Renting has also suited me for a good few years, but now I feel it's time to buy. But most likely a house not a condo.

House that are priced right and in good areas sell quite quickly. One sold don the road last year the same day it went up for sale. Another overpriced one on the same street hasn't sold in about 2 years. Being overpriced is usually the only reason property doesn't sell. People say they can't sell, but what they really mean is they can't sell at the price they want. Everything sells at the right price. But farangs in particular seem to overpay for property here. Locals seem to understand the pricing much better.

My thinking is about freedom and piece of mind so renting suites me fine here. I can get up and go when ever I wish. The $7,000 plus or minus dollars I spend a year on rent is nothing in the hole schema of things. In my home country totally different story. One thing I look at is also something I think most people forget or not want to look at and that is the amount you pay upfront and what that money can do for you invested in other ways. Example... If you invested $120,000 dollars back in 2008 in the U.S. Stock market there is a good chance it would now be worth over $200,000 or maybe $240,000 dollars. If you bought a condo in Pattaya in 2008 or many parts of Bangkok for the same amount do you think it would have doubled in value ? I think not ! There are risks in everything you do.

Unless you can buy at well below market value I would just keep my money in my home country and pay rent here. Also less chance of a woman getting her hands on it if it is in your country. Different strokes for different folks.

If you have a Thai family it also adds a different dimension. In that case get a bank loan and pay monthly for you housing.

That's a good point that's usually overlooked, but it can also work in reverse. You could have invested $120K and then it could be worth $60 a few years later. Then you'd wish you'd bought the condo. And if you're investing in USA there are also currency fluctuations to think about.

For me, buying is about having a place I want to live and call my own. Also somewhere I can renovate to exactly fit my needs. For a home I really don't care if I could have made more elsewhere because I don't see it as an investment. If I chose to invest it and did indeed make more money, I'd have to rent in the meantime and not be so happy. I would rather own my own place and be happy than make more money.

In your example, don't also forget to take into account that renting from 2008 to 2015 might have cost you around $50K (20,000 baht per month for 7 years). So then you're almost back to square one.

I wouldn't advise getting a Thai loan, as they are quite expensive from what I've seen. I'd prefer to pay cash.

They start blocking the more of the internet, my skinny white butt is out of here!

Goodbye.

Yes, if any confirmation of our plans to return to live in the UK were needed - well, that's it.

So you don't mind that the UK government will be snooping on you? And you don't mind that the UK government plan to outlaw encrypted messages? Sounds like out of the frying pan and into the fire. Good luck.

Big Brother will seriously be watching us now .

Surely this would put of investmentment by large foreign companies having slow mail, and possible snooping by the Govt.

It won't put them off at all. They will go anywhere that they can make money. Why should they care about this. Nothing to do with running their business and won't affect it.

Depends on whether you've got anyone to inherit any purchase in the future. We've just rented a new house and the rental would take 25 years to pay for the market value. There's very little difference financially.

But that's at today's rental rates. Rent is bound to rise over 25 years. People used to say he same thing when I first bought in London 20 years ago. Now both rent and property prices are up around 10-fold.

Not just that, even if rent stays the same for 25 years and property values do not appreciate, after 25 years you would have paid off the house, so from then on, you live rent free and have an asset worth several millions that you can sell or use as collateral when taking a loan.

Assuming you live another 25 years.

Assuming you don't get too old/infirm/senile, and have to return to your home country for long term health care.

Assuming you don't get deported and black listed.

Assuming you have 800kbht in the bank to get a VISA.

I dunno, but some people might think buying in a country where you have no right to live might be somehow foolish.

If anyone who buys doesn't live for 25 years it will be completely irrelevant to them because they'll be dead. They will most likely have a will, so that side of things would be taken care of. No reason for them to get deported or blacklisted. I assume they have the 800K sorted as well otherwise they wouldn't buy in the first place. But if they don't have the 800K they'd have the same problem if they rented.

It's not for you though, so I'd advise you stay away. Far too dangerous for someone like you to be in Thailand. Best that you sit at home and keep worrying while the rest of us enjoy our lives.

Why would you want to buy a property in a country under Military Rule and where they change the Visa rules at the drop of a hat. With rental you are in control of your capital, keep the places at home room to cover your expenditure in Thailand.

As already explained by some, they want a place to live that they can renovate and make changes to. They want a home and not a rental property that a landlord can decide to stop renting to you.

You sound like you have too much fear or maybe you don't have enough money to buy. I would advise you nt to buy in Thailand as it obviously wouldn't suit you. But for others buying in Thailand is a great idea.

Thailand has been under military rule many times, but foreigners are still here and still making money. You obviously don't understand the situation.

Just 1 advice if you decide to buy : Pay Thai-Price, not farang-Price ... Usually they almost dobble the Price for farang

NOt true in most condo buildings. Farangs pay more in buildings that are popular with farangs. To get Thai price for those you need to be Thai. There will be plenty of other farangs to pay extra if you don't want to. But I've never seen the price doubled or anywhere near that. If you think that has happened then let us know where.Or are you just making it up?

Depends on whether you've got anyone to inherit any purchase in the future. We've just rented a new house and the rental would take 25 years to pay for the market value. There's very little difference financially.

But that's at today's rental rates. Rent is bound to rise over 25 years. People used to say he same thing when I first bought in London 20 years ago. Now both rent and property prices are up around 10-fold.

If your money comes from outside Thailand you also need to think about currency movements. 25,000 baht a month rent now would be around $700. What if it turns out to be $1,400 in 10-20 years time? Could you still afford it. If you're planning to stay long-term it can be better to buy because you have locked in the price. Rent and you're at the mercy of the markets and currency exchange rates. You never know what the future will hold. If an area suddenly takes off you could be priced out of both renting and buying, as many have found out in other countries.

But it's up to each person to decide based on their own circumstances. I plan to buy a property in next 2-3 years. It will most likely be a house, although a condo is a possibility. But that's me. I'm not suggesting that would suit anyone else. But I like to renovate to my on tastes and own designs and can't do that with a rented place.

Get your testosterone checked.

27th September at 15:16.

It depends how much it cost/rent.

The area I want to rent at usually the rent is about 7-10% of the apartments price.

So even if the Condo is gone in 15 years, I will have made a profit.

The rule of thumb I've seen most often is that one should try/expect to get a rent of about 1% of the purchase price, per month. Most rents I've seen have been near that amount as well, plus or minus a bit. Maybe Bangkok is different somehow. I don't know. It seems pretty unlikely that one can charge a rent of 7-10% of an apartment's purchase price, per month. If one could get 10% per month, one would have recovered the purchase price in only ten months. If someone thinks they can actually get that much, then good on them, I guess. Buy lots, no matter where the places might be (beach front?). If, however, you're talking 7-10% per year, that's a different story. 10% might barely be acceptable. 7% suggests it would be better to look for property elsewhere.

To the OP's original point if he's really worried about the city being underwater, it might be best to look at investing elsewhere. Perhaps in the north somewhere. Traffic in and around Chiang Mai is looking more and more like Bangkok traffic every day. Lots and lots of Bangkok license plates out there, which kind of maybe suggests a little bit that more and more Bangkokians are leaving BKK? They, too, may have heard the rumors of Bangkok being underwater sometime soon. Or, they may simply have had enough of what Bangkok has become: all Central/Chitlomy-like, with BTS and MRT going everywhere. However you wish to describe it, it's changed quite a bit in the past 15-20 years.

A final thought: housing in the north doesn't appreciate as rapidly as a buyer might hope. The developers are always building more and more and bigger and "better," such that the value of whatever one might buy will take quite a bit of time to change appreciably. And one can never be completely sure of the direction of change.

Best of luck to ya'll...

He means 7-10% a year. You won't find many places anywhere in the world that give 12% return, as you suggest is a rule of thumb. I've no idea where you got that from but it's wrong. In London you get 3-4%, if that. Renters in London couldn't afford to pay what you suggest. Same in lots of places. Most condos I see in Bangkok get 5-7% rental income. Where we are now costs 25,000 baht per month, or 300K baht per year. The condos are around 6 million, so that's 5% return for the owner. Take out the costs and it doesn't leave much.

If you can get 10-12% it will likely be a much more risky investment. This usually means low-quality tenants, lots of extra hassles, etc.

It's not all about the return. Other things like good tenants count as well. I'd rather good tenants that look after a place paying 5% rent than tenants that don't care and have to be chased up for the rent that pay 10%. The extra 5% just isn't worth the hassle. It's not even an extra 5% when you take the extra costs into account.

BTS and MRT going everywhere will make the city more attractive and property more expensive. For some reason you seem to think he opposite is true.

Like some other parts of the world, Bangkok was built

on a swamp, the problem is not water falling on top as

groundwater seeping up and getting rid of it.

Venice is a nice place also.

You obviously don't understand the problem. Much of the groundwater has been pumped out, which is one reason that Bangkok is slowly sinking. So you can be pretty sure that there won't be any groundwater seeping up. It's almost all gone.