penco

10 hours ago, rasg said:

Interesting. What was her reason to return for a visit of that length?

 

I'm interested simply because many apply for a visa for, say a month, relying on their job as reason to return. They are then given a six month multi entry visit visa and stay for much longer than they originally requested and then have problems with the next visa application unless they can explain the reason for the longer trip.

 

 

Job and family in Thailand. 

That plus plenty of proof of a relationship. By the time we were successful in getting a visitor visa I had been out to see her again (twice in less than 6 months) and we went together up to Isaan to see her family. Photos of this plus photos of us together during the previous trip and photocopies of the Thai visa stamps in my passport I think convinced them that our relationship was genuine and that we wouldn't risk jeopardising our eventual application for a settlement visa.

We originally met in 2004 and she does have family in UK that I am also very close too and they too were mentioned on the application making absolutely clear than she would not be a burden on the state and that our application was genuine.

15 hours ago, rasg said:

Very sensible recommending dishonesty in a visa application. NOT! A ten year ban from applying is likely to follow.

 

I saw those words for the very first time on a visa refusal notice just a couple of hours ago on a different forum. It is not something I would want to see for anybody and the applicant admitted in a phone call to the ECO that she had created a letter from her employer herself. It is a monumentally stupid thing to do.

.

I had known my, now, wife 14 weeks when we submitted her first visit visa back in May 2015. Alarms bell are not set ringing at all with a low salary,. Many Thai women are on a low salary. Only knowing somebody for a few months, or heaven forbid, having met in Pattaya are not necessarily negative points as long as there is a strong application. (My wife was working in the hotel restaurant where I was staying on my first trip to Thailand.)

 

But you still haven't answered my question as far as I can see.

 

Here it is again.

 

The OP didn't answer if his GF requested five months for the successful visit visa where she actually stayed for five months.

 

Actually I did but I obviously didn't make it clear.

We applied for 6 months. She got 6 months and stayed 5 months.

She only stayed 5 months because getting plane tickets at the drop of a hat cost a fortune, hence the delay of a month, during which time her visa was already valid and thus lost a month.

Hope that clarifies it.

1 hour ago, rasg said:

You don't need to apologise. The Fiancée visa is a settlement visa and you can apply for it at any time. I explained it poorly. Lasts six months with all of the other criteria needed. TB test, language test, £18,600 financial requirement etc etc. But, no reason to return required. No job for your GF to worry about. You get married and just before it runs out you apply for FLR (Further leave to remain) from within the UK that lasts for 30 months.  Then another FLR and 30 months later, Indefinite Leave to Remain. Those three visas add up to five and a half years and you can apply for ILR after five years. A2 language test now needed for the second FLR. B1 for ILR and also the Life in the UK test.

The settlement visa lasts for 33 months if you get married in Thailand so the second FLR is not needed. Quite a big saving in the cost and much, much cheaper to get married in Thailand. Especially if you only do the legal bit at the amphur.

 

No NHS surcharge needed for the Fiancée visa. £200 per annum is the cost of the NHS surcharge. Paid in advance, of course. The FLR NHS sucharge is £500. NHS surcharge for the Settlement visa if you get married in Thailand is £600.

Thank you very much for your extremely informative and helpful reply. I really appreciate your help. 

5 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

The A1 IELTS Life Skills test (which is what she would have to take if she does the test in Thailand) is pretty easy. It only lasts about 18 minutes and consist of general questions, 3 listening questions and a short chat with the other candidate. It is more to see if she can communicate with people than a test of her English, which only needs to be at a very basic level.

Thanks, we watched a few YouTube videos of the test so I'm fairly familiar with the test.

She struggled to understand. I think she'd be better now.

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

No, that is for unmarried partners; i.e. a couple who have been living together and have no intention of marrying.

 

A Fiance visa is for an engaged couple who intend to marry in the UK within 6 months of the visa being issued; After the marriage the foreign spouse applies for further leave to remain.

 

See the pinned topic UK settlement visa basics for more details. It's a little out of date in some areas, but not this one.

 

OK, she lied to you but not in her application. But really silly not to have agreed the leave of absence with her employer and obtaining said letter!

 

If it is your intention to live together in the UK; then settlement is the answer; unless you are prepared to live with her in Thailand for two years then either as your fiance or your spouse.

 

I'd recommend spouse, as it's the cheaper option. Although it will necessitate you travelling to Thailand to marry her first.

 

Fiance or spouse, she will need to pass A1 in English speaking and listening with a UKVI approved provider (the ones in Thailand are on page 14; unfortunately they're all in Bangkok). But, as Brewsterbudgen says, A1 is very basic; often called breakthrough or beginner. The requirements being:-

• Can understand and use familiar everyday expressions and very basic phrases aimed at the satisfaction of needs of a concrete type.
• Can introduce themselves and others and can ask and answer questions about personal details such as where he/she lives, people they know and things they have.
• Can interact in a simple way provided the other person talks slowly and clearly and is prepared to help.

If she can hold a conversation with you in English she should pass easily.

 

It's your future, it's your decision. But take my advice; don't marry her in a rush simply to get her a visa. Only marry her if you love each other and want to spend the rest of your lives together.

As ever your advice is invaluable. Your advice was instrumental in our successful second application.

I really appreciate it.

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

I cannot understand this comment.

As I understand it (my understanding maybe faulty), my only recourse to get married is for her to get sufficient English to get A1, that's not happening in Thailand, she's a factory girl earning a pittance and has no free time. So getting married in Thailand is pointless with out A1.

I thought getting a Fiancée Visa requires living together in Thailand for 2 years?

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

As said before

 

If you really love each other, really want to live together, then this is the correct route for you. See Family visas: apply to live in the UK

 

OK, as perthperson says, you have to meet the financial requirement; but you say you have a career, one good enough not to give up; so do you?

 

The previous lie in a visit application should not effect a settlement application; see Immigration Rules part 9: grounds for refusal

 

I'm no Bill Gates but the financial requirement isn't a problem. I'm in permanent employment with a good employer and I'm a homeowner (i.e. a mortgage slave).

She DID NOT lie on the application form.

She told them where she worked, she didn't tell them she had a letter indicating they would hold her job open, she told me that.

When they rang her employer, the person they spoke to had no idea my TGF was planning to go to UK for 6 months, so the inevitable happened.

Previously she'd got a BS letter saying they'd hold her job for her (no Thai employer is going to do this in reality, it was merely for the Visa Application people - jobs in factories in Ayutthaya or Pathum Thani aren't difficult to find) and they didn't contact her employer, though if they had, the employer would have said "yes we're aware she wants to visit her BF in UK and it's fine".

If I recall correctly rasg's Mrs unfortunately (i.e. unplanned) lost her job whilst she was in UK and the Visa people were fine with that. Apologies rasg if I'm getting this wrong.

The first application also failed because she was deemed to have insufficient reason to return which was because at the time she was helping a child minder and got free room and board as her salary, she'd walked out of a job at a high tech Japanese company's factory in Ayutthaya to be with me. The second application was made after she'd been working in a car parts factory for 6 months - to satisfy the "in gainful employment - reason to return".

Anyway I apologise if my understanding of UK immigration requirements are incorrect and I welcome any other solutions to my problem that don't involve me going to Thailand to live for a specified amount of time or giving my TGF a wage and paying for English classes in Thailand so she can get A1. I don't have the financial wherewithal for the latter or the freedom to do the former.

Finger crossed we can swing another 5 months in UK so she can get her English up to scratch and then it's get married at an Amphur near her family so her Dad and daughter can be there too, then Settlement Visa and so on.

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Lying in any visa application is guaranteed to result in a refusal if the lie is discovered; which, as your girlfriend discovered, it usually is.

 

It can also have serious consequences in any future applications. She's lied to them once, why should they believe her next time?

 

You are correct that a standard visitor can study in the UK for up to 30 days during their visit; provided this study is not one of the main reasons for their visit.

 

Obviously, telling the visa section that she was going to the UK to learn English tells them that study is the main reason for her visit!

 

See Permitted Study.

 

It wasn't quite like that. They asked what will she do in UK, she said stay with her boyfriend, do some sight-seeing, spend time with my BF's family, visit my own family in UK (her sister-in-law is my best friend's wife and they are very close).

Visa people then said "Yes but what else are you going to do?"

So she replied honestly and said that she would also learn English because we want to get married and she needs A1. They said how? She said my BF will teach me and I will have lessons at a local school.

When she was here last time we went to local tertiary college where they did ESOL classes and she was assessed but the tutor said it would be very expensive as we'd have to pay for a year and we'd only get 3 months as she was returning to Thailand in January. Hence she said to the Visa people "go to a local school"

So that screwed that up.

11 hours ago, rasg said:

So the second application was successful. How long was requested in the application? If it was less than five months, did you explain the extra time in the third application or was part of the refusal due to the longer stay?

 

If you are not both singing from the same hymn sheet a new application is doomed to failure.

 

A letter from her boss is very important.

 

How will she get up to A1 unless she is learning? It's not a hard test but she does need to have a basic understanding of English and it does take time. My wife 's English has improved dramatically since we both met but she has been forced to learn as she has been here for over two years with a couple of very short gaps. She's been immersed in it but she loves to learn. Just as well as she needs A2 before her next visa as the government changed the goalposts.

 

You have a lot of ground to makeup with UKVI with your next application, I think.

 

A settlement visa is to get married. My wife and I went the fiancée visa route. It lasts for six months and you have to get married in that time. We were married in the UK. The settlement visa lasts for 33 months if you get married in Thailand.

 

 

I was completely honest with all our applications (obviously she applies but I actually fill in most of the details). So we asked for 6 months and got 6 months but it's valid immediately so you always lose a few days. Getting a direct flight to UK with zero notice would have been prohibitively expensive hence 5 months.

Even so she was detained at LHR for 2 hours (in a locked room) while they allegedly rang me (my mobile didn't ring once whilst I was waiting for her in Arrivals). They took her passport away with them. Fortunately thanks to the good info I'd read her she followed my advice and had all her documentation in her hand luggage and showed it to them but they still detained her.

I can't understand why she said to me she had the letter when she didn't. I think it was a case of miscommunication (easily done) or basically her placating me with the intention of getting it done later "yes, yes honey, of course I've got one" [must remember to get that letter sorted].

He English isn't too bad actually and we've run through the various YouTube A1 videos and I reckon she can do with a few months of being in UK and practising here (plus some private tuition/less than 30 days course), instead of her making friends with Thai girls here and speaking Thai all the time... <sigh>

I'm obviously missing a trick here because I thought a fiancée visa was only available if you could demonstrate you'd been in a relationship for 2 years in Thailand? I sincerely apologise if I've got this wrong. It's the reason we've been going for A1 then get married in Thailand and apply for a Settlement Visa then.

8 hours ago, rasg said:

Can you explain this a bit more please? Was it two failures and then successful on the third? How much time did you request when she was granted the visa?

 

When my, then GF, returned to Thailand in the middle of February she went back armed with a settlement visa application and her English Language test, (she took it at Trinity in Hammersmith), took her TB test the next day, submitted it the following day and stayed with her cousin and his wife until it came through. She was back in the UK just over two weeks after she left.

 

Not possible as quickly now of course, as Settlement visas are sent to Sheffield and seem to be taking two months.

First application failed. Lack of photographic proof.

Second application successful. Granted 6 months, got 5 months in UK and returned.

Applied again for another 6 months, refused. They didn't like my current account having less than 2K in it despite the fact that my savings account had 20K in it. She told me she had a letter from her employer saying they'd keep her job open. She'd fibbed and when they inevitably rang her employer, the employer said she'd lose her job. She also was interviewed by phone and told the visa application people she was going to UK to learn English - epic fail! They told her she can't do that on a tourist visa (not actually true unless you do more than 30 hours a month classroom time) and she needs to apply for a student visa. So basically a total mess.

I was annoyed about the whole thing. She had 5 months in UK and I nagged her from the start that she needed to crack on and learn English but she suffers from the Thai "loss of face" syndrome and couldn't hack trying to speak English and making inevitable mistakes. So she wasted 5 months in UK and went back without A1.

The employer letter thing was annoying because she'd got one previously, so she knew the score. But lied to me when I asked her before applying if she had one again. Waste of £100!

So we'll try again in September and fingers crossed we get it. This time I'm motivating her to make sure the application's a good one because I'm not paying for it, unlike the previous 3. This time it's her own hard earned money going down the drain if she doesn't do it right.

I thought that Settlement visas are for spouses? She doesn't have A1 and her English isn't good enough yet. Besides working 6 days a week on night/day shifts at a factory aren't conducive to learning English. What free time she has is spent catching up with sleep, washing clothes or on rare days off where she decides to have a public holiday instead of working overtime she'll maybe try to go to Isaan and see her family and child.

She herself knows that the next application is crucial so we're both motivated to make it work.

I find the whole situation ironic as I myself am the result of a UK man meeting a foreign woman and falling in love (I'm half Latin American). But back in the 60's immigration was far simpler.

On 7/7/2017 at 0:14 PM, rasg said:

I'd be interested in seeing your sponsor letter. The ECO obviously saw holes in what you had to say about her employment or maybe it was just the two months that you requested.

 

With my wife's first visit visa we requested a month but she was laid off from work while she was away so she stayed 18 weeks. I explained it in her second visit visa application a few weeks later and also explained that I was financially supporting her and it went through without a hitch. The two visit visas actually overlapped by 12 days. With the four visas my wife has had since 2015 we have never had a call.

UK Visitor Visas - 3 applications, 2 failures and 1 visa

:-(

We're trying again in September. You've made me feel more hopeful but I'm still dubious. For my relationship, this is the last chance saloon. If she gets refused again then I'm giving up, I can't go to Thailand to live (I have family commitments in UK, a career here (for what it's worth)), so I guess our plans of marriage and living together will just remain plans.

On 7/6/2017 at 0:01 PM, rasg said:

Two months is a bit of a stretch for a first visit visa imho knowing how much time Thais get for holidays.

My TGF came for 5 months on her first visit, would have been 6 months but I couldn't afford to get her a flight the day after she got her passport back.

Similar background i.e. she earns 10K THB working shifts in a factory in Ayutthaya, no land, no house etc etc.

So it's definitely do-able. 

An interesting opinion piece on this very topic...

The UK, where falling in love with a foreigner is only for the better off

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2017/feb/23/the-uk-where-falling-in-love-with-a-foreigner-is-only-for-the-better-off?

I noted they didn't mention the exorbitant cost of the many visas needed to bring a spouse here and stay here.

I was chatting to a colleague and his spouse who is from New Zealand and she was saying how shocked she was at the cost of the applications for Settlement/FLR/ILR etc.

I think you local constituency association is massaging the figures somewhat!

[...]

On 12/08/2016 at 9:36 PM, berybert said:

Yes because sitting down after a long time sitting down is all anyone wants to do.

That's OK the usual 45 minutes spent walking from the plane, standing in long queues for passport control and then standing around waiting for my luggage make up for the 12 hours in a cramped "cattle-class" seat unable to sleep.

I love learning Thai and I enjoy building up my vocabulary, so much so that I get frustrated when the TGF and other Thais reply in English when I try to speak to them in Thai but I understand why they do this if their English is better than my Thai, which generally it always is :D

The only downside of learning Thai is that even if I became fairly fluent I'd still miss out on what the TGF and her family and friends are saying because for her Thai is only the language she had to learn at school and is for formal circumstances and HiSo environments. Back in Mukdahan her family all speak Sô (from the Kaso tribe) and elsewhere Lao is very common (not just in Isaan but BKK too). In the various factories she's worked in, in Ayutthaya, Lao (Isaan Lao) is spoken everywhere.

A good friend of mine is fluent in Thai and also reads and writes Thai fluently. A thing he once said to me about Lao (which his wife and family from Sakon Nakhon all speak) has always stuck in my mind and always makes me chuckle.

"The Lao language is like the Geordie version of Thai"

There's a grain of truth in it and Isaan people are from the North East. Also it made me chuckle because my family in UK are all Geordies.

If you're ever Southampton way, try Yummy Thai in Southampton. Very unprepossessing, tiny hole in the wall place, very modest in appearance but fantastic real Thai Isaan food. The ladies preparing the food are from Isaan (the last one I spoke to was from Khon Kaen). All the staff are Thai.

Also The Thai Cafe in Shirley, Southampton, once again all Thai expats and Isaan ladies.

My GF rated both but preferred Yummy Thai (she's from Mukdahan herself so likes Som Tam, Larb etc). They'll go off piste if you ask ie they'll make up Prik Nam Plah fresh for you and use Plah Rah in the Som Tam.

Cheers 7by7. In fact she heard this morning that the decision's been made and her docs are being sent to her (I hadn't realised she decided to stump up the extra to have the docs returned to her by post/courier). So that's less than a week (she submitted the docs last Friday afternoon).

Fingers crossed it's good news.

Thanks for your assistance and everyone else who replied.

We applied for the previous stating very clearly that she was going to be staying for the full six months, so no explanation for apparent overstay is necessary. I sent photos last time because the first application was refused as I hadn't provided proof of a relationship i.e. only written proof no photos.

She applied last week and dropped off the supporting docs passport etc at Trendy. They phoned her yesterday to confirm the details of the application and asked her if we intended to get married. It would have been obvious that the application was completed by me on her behalf as her English is rudimentary but the whole application was completed in English. the online application form seemed to be more intrusive than last time as it requested the address and contact details of her child (as is often common in Thailand, her child lives in Isaan with the grandparents). Last time they didn't ask for this.

Now we're waiting to find out the result.

Anyone know how long it takes for the UK Visitor Visa to be approved/denied? I seem to think it took about a week last year after the docs were dropped off.
 

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

She (we in reality) applied for a 6 month visa and she stayed for 5 months (visa started the day she applied and flights were too expensive to get her here sooner) - she didn't say 2 weeks and stay 20 weeks.

I'll skip the SU 07/12 but I'll send all the usual i.e. sponsorship letter, letter of invitation, proof of my funds, my passport, photos together, my Thai visa stamps, mortgage statement etc etc

I am currently going through the the UK Visitor Visa application for process for my Thai GF (she's in Thailand and I'm in the UK). The process seems to have changed a bit since July 2015 when I last (and successfully) applied for a UK Visitor Visa for her. I'm going through the online application form and that's nearly complete but last year I had to print off and filll in (and post to Thailand) a “Sponsorship Undertaking” form SU07/12. Is this form no longer necessary?

Secondly my Thai GF returned to LoS in January this year after 5 months in UK and now I'm applying for another 6 month visitor visa, hopefully having her over from next month. She squandered 5 months here last time and made very little progress learning English, so this visit is to further cement our relationship and also an opportunity for her to fully immerse herself in the English language, get some fluency sufficient to get A1 so we can get married (in Thailand) and apply for a settlement visa. What do people think is the likelihood that she'll be refused another visitor visa as it's been so soon since her last trip? Needless to say she's a penniless lady from Isaan so I'm paying for everything, this may or may not have a bearing on the ECO's opinion as to whether she should be granted another UK Visitor Visa.

Spanish is certainly a lot easier to learn than Thai and native Spanish speakers struggle less when learning English as there so many similarities. The alphabet's the same so you can usually have a decent guess of what something says. Learning to speak Thai fluently is one thing but to be able to read and write it fluently too is pretty rare for non-native speakers.

Venezuelan women share a similar culture so less of a culture clash too.

But yes Venezuela has some "issues" with crime and violence which can only get worse with current state of the economy.

Plenty of other nice countries in South America though...

Many years ago I was told that the reason that prices of goods in shops are £4.99 or £29.95 etc instead of just £5 or £30 is to help prevent fraud by sales assistants. They have to open the cash till to give you change, whereas the straight notes could just be pocketed.

These days with so many payments being made using cards, especially here in UK where they have the "tap'n'pay" card readers so you don't even have to enter your PIN, £XX.99 prices for things seems redundant.

A friend from the US went to Medellin last year on a consultancy and was offered a full time position with decent but not extravagant pay. He spent a lot of time checking it out and talking to local expats but ultimately decided to pass on it. The country has certainly had a huge upswing from 10 years ago and is not as casually dangerous as back then...but outside of the tourist areas, it is still a risky place for anybody with money.

He visited some expat's homes in the suburbs of Medellin and though many of them were very beautiful and very inexpensive, they were all like fortresses with extensive security systems and an attendant at the gate. Most of the "executive class" expats had company drivers and took careful precautions to avoid abductions which he was told were not that unusual. Companies always paid.

Great place to visit, but.......

Latin America Is World's Most Violent Region: Area accounts for nearly one in three global homicides, U.N. study shows.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303603904579495863883782316

The whole of Latin America is not the same. I'm familiar with Chile.

A cursory glance at Google came up with this...

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Chile/United-States/Crime

Crime on the whole is lower than the US.

Colombia may or may not be worse, it's not somewhere I know.

But to lump the whole of Latin America together and say it's "all like this..." isn't useful or true.

Good luck with it, they are extremely picky at the moment.

Yep. They seem to turn a hell of a lot of people down on the first application. If you stick with it and pay again they are more amenable. Nice little earner for them and nobody can do anything about it . Can't call it corruption but very dubious ethics.

That's been my experience exactly. EXTREMELY picky.

they would need to apply for a visa for Schengen visa from the Latvian Embassy in bangkok, also if the UK visa is multi entry then no problems. She has no legal residence in the UK so cannot apply in the UK.

Address: 113/13, Surawong Road, Si Phraya, Khet Bangrak, Bangkok, 10500, 10500, Thailand

Phone:+66 2 237 3585

Thanks for the rapid reply. Sounds like it's a no go as they are currently already in the UK. :-(