TheSiemReaper

Honestly, the Daily Mail should be banned everywhere. However, to the topic in hand Cambodia has problems with child prostitution and child molestors - it's true. The government and NGO community have been cracking down for a decade and a senior UN official admitted to me that the main country for paedophiles in Asia now is Nepal where no such crack down has taken place.

It's worth noting that it's estimated that there are 30,000 child prostitutes in Cambodia but that there are 200,000 in Canada (a country roughly twice the size of Cambodia). I'd love to know why it is that Cambodia captures the media attention so completely that Canada is ignored...

How is the Thai expat group currently in Siem Reap? Is there any kind of a community there for those of us who might be looking for an opportunity with a Thai family? I would think that a great number of the tourists would be Thai and therefore there should be a thriving community, but the last time I was there was over 10 years ago and there wasn't much of anything at all then.

 

Have some business ideas that might work well in the newly christened Kingdom of Wonder, but still trying to decide on how to convince the wife to go along with this. I was originally thinking Phnom Penh, but the more I consider it, it might make more sense to start out in a smaller market with more tourists.

 

Any insights in this regard?

 

There are definitely Thai tourists here but they don't make up that significant a number (surprising perhaps given their proximity to here) and the Thai expat community is minimal all across Cambodia. Lots of Chinese, Viet, Koreans and even some Japanese but very few Thais.

Never been in Cambodia be I'm curious, how much do I need to invest to buy a buisness that would allow 2 persons to live confortably there?

Not really interested in running a bar, but a bungalow resort close to the beach or a guest house in Sihanoukville, how much would it cost? And is it worth it?

How long is a piece of string? Define "comfortably", define what you want to do and not what you don't want to do and you might be able to come to a satisfactory conclusion. I started my business with $0 and live more than comfortably; but it's not a path for everyone. I know others who've invested hundreds of thousands of dollars to reach "comfortable" and a couple that lost millions and then found "comfortable" in a much simpler life.

A bungalow resort in SHK is probably commercial suicide though. In recent history; the local officials allow these resorts to be built, and then they decide to confiscate the land, bulldoze what's there and wait for the next sucker to pony up some cash. Depending on the state of the resort you might be talking $20,000 - $500,000 to purchase one.

PP looks more interesting , I like the city life . And lots of restaurants and coffee shops with western food/drinks. Also a nice casino in PP if your into gambling and poker.  

 

 If I'll have future problems with my visa here in Thailand I will consider a temporary move to PP .

 

  

SR doesn't have a casino and it has only one girly bar but it has more restaurant and coffee shops serving Western food than PP by a margin of around 2 to 1. We get the tourists so we get the stuff designed to attract their spending. There's not enough differentiation in the restaurant and bar scene in either city yet but they are both slowly improving. It's also worth noting that the best wine cellar in Asia (and one of the 10 best in the world) is in Siem Reap.

The reason most people talking about work permits are not very specific is because there's been no real crackdown. A few people have been caught in Phnom Penh but I know at least a hundred who haven't been. I don't know anyone who has personally in SR or PP. That's an overwhelming case that a tiny vocal minority have been unlucky rather than mass enforcement. The topic is currently a "hot topic" because the government announced via the Phnom Penh Post that they would be cracking down on work permits. The how, why and what that means have yet to come to light.

In order to enforce a work permit; they have to catch you working - if they do, they are quite within their rights to fine you (I think it's $100-$200 per year of E-visa plus the costs of the permits you didn't buy). They have as yet not arrested any Western expat for failure to have a permit but again they are within their rights to do so. Only repeat offenders may be jailed.

Most of the TripAdvisor top slots are spot on; tend to agree on the LP though - it's out of date and as soon as any restaurant in Cambodia appears in it - they stop caring about the quality of their food because they know millions of gullible wonks will pay to eat rubbish because they saw it in LP. Khmer businesses are very focused on LP inclusion, Western businesses more so on TA.

1. Yes, I do it everyday. Don't whatever you do drink the tap water though - spitting it out is fine.

2. If you have Western sized feet (e.g. US Size 10 or above) buy sneakers in Thailand. Otherwise they're not that much different in price here.

3. Lol - it's Cambodia not medieval France. Yes, you can buy tampons in Siem Reap.

4. Yes. Prices vary from place to place. $1-$3 would be the norm for a glass of juice.

Silver River is decent. It's a short walk/tuk-tuk from Street 51 (big bar street and GSM) and 172 itself is a decent street of cheap bars and eats. You're also closer to the main bar district than you'd be in the others but I don't know those. The others are closer to BKK1 which may or may not matter.

SR is hectic and PP is not? You have them the wrong way round. SR is a country town with big city ameneties thanks to the tourists. PP is a big city and somewhat reminiscent of Bangkok 20 years ago.

It's the slow season so you will be able to find something on the day but you're better off booking in advance. Use Hostelbooker for the best for your budget. You can get an air-conditioned room for $7-$8 in both places if you know what you're doing. A fan room is doable for $4-$6 in both.

SR has a lot to do and a week will fly by. PP also has a lot to do but a week may be a little long. On the other hand if you want a good time; both will be fine.

If all you want is beaches and some semblance of normal life; Snooky's the only real option. The islands in Cambodia are lovely but facilities are far too limited for more than a few days' stay. Kampot and Kep are nice but no beaches and again a little too sleepy, perhaps, for more than a months' stay (and perhaps much less). Siem Reap is lovely but very different. Phnom Penh's not actually a bad option for a week or two either. I'd multi-center holiday if I was visiting for a few weeks and spread myself out a bit, unless I found somewhere I didn't want to leave.

It's probably fair to say that everywhere here is safer than Snooky but that Snooky's really not that bad; it's just not my idea of a long-term stay location either.

I doubt it would be cheaper to pay the travel to somewhere else to get good dental work done.

2 fillings replaced for 600 Baht

1 cap for 12,000 baht

1 gold crown for 15,000 baht in Phuket when I was stupid.

It would be cheaper to travel to Cambodia; 4 x wisdom teeth extraction, 2 x root canal, 2 x crowns, 2 x x-rays, 2 x scale and polish, 4 x fillings = 14,000 THB (there were two of us at the dentist - and I'm not ashamed to say that my partner needed most of the work, though my wallet paid for all of it).

I use the Pachem Clinic opposite the Angkor Museum in Siem Reap.

Dental work is very good and very cheap in Cambodia as long as you go to the right clinics. I know a Danish guy who saved over 20,000 Euro on major dental surgery; he checked out pricing in Thailand, Vietnam, etc. and concluded Cambodia was the place to go.

My own experiences with dentists here (in Siem Reap) have been excellent and I can't imagine finding anything cheaper anywhere that's cheaper.

To die at 31 is a very sad thing indeed. Thoughts to his family; it could have been any of us if life had been a little different.

[quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127144" timestamp="1405845782"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127132" timestamp="1405845530"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127107" timestamp="1405845120"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127096" timestamp="1405844921"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127087" timestamp="1405844713"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127075" timestamp="1405844496"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127065" timestamp="1405844365"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127056" timestamp="1405844229"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127048" timestamp="1405844149"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127033" timestamp="1405843920"] [quote name="Soutpeel" post="8127007" timestamp="1405843509"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8126870" timestamp="1405841240"]@The OP
 
Come to Cambodia. Online freelancing is a legal option here. No requirement for a work permit. No requirement for language lessons. No ridiculously over-priced tourist visa either. $285/year all in. If you want a year's language lessons - that would cost about $100 on top.
 
I could afford the Elite card but there's no way on earth that I would afford it. 500K (that's $16k USD) Baht plus other fees for a 5 year tourist visa? Lol. If Thailand ever decides to enter the modern age and make it easy to incorporate a sole-trader that pays taxes but neither hires Thais nor hires an office; I'd consider moving to Thailand until then... not on your nelly.
 
The long-term impact of this visa crackdown is going to damage Thailand's ability to trade internationally give them a few years and economic pressures will make them relent (or at least come up with a sensible set of requirements for a long-term visa). Until then, come to the Kingdom of Wonder and enjoy a cheaper lifestyle without a single visit to register in a police station in your whole time here.[/quote]So how much income tax are you contributing to the Cambodian economy then
 [/quote] 
None. It's completely legal. My company does no business in Cambodia. It leaves me to decide where I will work. My company is a Hong Kong registered entity, trading completely overseas, no Hong Kong business allowed. I don't get paid a salary thus I have no income to tax. I pay an annual accounting fee in Hong Kong and can expense everything I can get a receipt for; including my rent, bills, etc. you don't pay taxes on expenses (apart from possibly VAT). If I can't get a receipt - I don't buy it.
 [/quote]So why would Thailand want you?

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
 [/quote]
Umm... because as my first post says; if I could incorporate in Thailand, I'd pay tax? Are you being deliberately obtuse?[/quote]
Yep. Sounds like an awesome deal for Thailand.

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Given that the tax on my company earnings would be equivalent to 8 x Thailand's GDP per capita - it's an awesome deal for Thailand. I wonder how much tax you're contributing Mr. High and Mighty? I suspect the answer is "nowhere near that much" but I'm full of myself anyway.[/quote]But no inclination to employ Thais or increase skills etc? 8 is my lucky number by the way. I'm happy for you your business is a great success.

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
No inclination to employ anyone at all. Why would I? I'm a sole-trader. I don't need staff. I don't need an office. And I expect 100% ownership of my business - not 49% of it. Hiring people would just drag my earnings down and then how would I pay my staff? Thailand can build hospitals with my taxes instead or schools... or they can't and they can't have those taxes. Simple equation.[/quote]Seems like they don't want them anyway?

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
I suspect as the knowledge based freelance economy grows that places like Thailand will start reaching out to companies like mine. We take no jobs from locals. (I don't do business in Asia at all - getting paid at the end of a project is too much like hard work, I stick to European, North American and Australian companies only as clients). We earn large amounts of money and we spend our money where we are. We're only a tiny percentage of global companies now - in 20 years, we're going to be much more significant.
 
Given the current visa fiasco in Thailand, I think Thailand has no idea what it really wants. The whole "Thailand doesn't want you" is in the imagination of ridiculous people living in Thailand; proudly contributing very little and over-inflating that contribution in their heads.
 
The Cambodian economy isn't so proud as to say; "Don't spend your money here." I think in the long run, I'll probably settle in Malaysia under the 2nd home program but I don't want to buy a home in Malaysia at the moment.[/quote]You seem like a good bloke and quite sincere. But I don't believe Thailand had any inclination to do what you would like. I lived in Japan for a long time and perhaps my opinions are warped from that experience. Everyone kept saying "the Japanese must do this..." But you know what? They don't particularly want to and they are fine with that. To me the Thais seem to have a similar attitude.

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Possibly but Thailand's not Japan. Economically it's a little bit behind China. China is already making moves to allow people like me to work there legally (and they aren't all that keen laowai/farang either).
 
It all comes down to money in the end. Japan is an economic powerhouse and like Western Europe/The US/Canada/Etc. it doesn't need the income vs. the hassle. Thailand almost certainly does. Once the dust settles on this crackdown and the implications (particularly in the teaching sector) are better understood - I think you'll see major changes to the visa regime to make it easier for people to give Thailand their money.

Perhaps. But I believe you are trying to apply a western though process to what is an eastern mindset. If you read up on how japan and South Korea became powerhouses, it wasn't by allowing sole traders free reign.

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

As the option didn't exist when those countries were doing their thing; it's near irrelevant. Thailand's development has certainly not (so far) come close to emulating the success of those nations. Both of which opened their doors to as much foreign expertise as they could get their hands on and paid through the nose for the privilege. I have friends in Japan and South Korea picking up huge pay checks in our industry. The same is not true for Thailand. Compare apples with apples and Thailand's a lot more like China than those two countries.

 

 

Thailand has lots of visas, exemptions and rules that other countries do not have. It is an apples and oranges comparison. Thailand is not the US, and enacts immigration rules and laws specific to its own circumstances.

The relevant questions, and they are open ones, are

1. which of these online freelancers is beneficial to Thailand's economy
2. how to accomodate them
3. what the drawbacks are
4. whether the net benefit is great enough to accomodate them
5. what charge or tax to levy

Tough questions to answer indeed and no perfect solution. However, I think the 100K/year elite card rough filter makes a reasonable fist of all 5.

 

 

What is the difference between an online freelancer spending 80k thb/month in thailand for a year and 12 one month tourists with the same monthly budget?

Apart from the airport taxes and a slight difference in how they spend their money, it's pretty much the same thing.

 

A tourist spends foreign currency in Thailand, pays some tax through VAT and provides jobs or revenues to thais through the services and goods he purchases. On the other hand, he produces trash, pollute and sometimes commits crime. The net benefit for Thailand is obvious, tourists as well as online freelancers are beneficial to Thailand's economy. 

 

Thailand is doing a lot to attract tourists to the country. There are millions of them and it represent a fair share of the nation's PIB.

But Thailand doesn't give a shit about online freelancers. For a start, I'm not even sure they acknowledge their existence, and even if they did, there isn't enough of them to bother to give them a special treatment, accommodate them in any way and even tax them.

 

By my count, on a single freelancing site, there are 38K online freelancers based in Thailand already. Multiply that out across the "big 4" and that's over 100K online freelancers. Not quite the same volumes as tourists but not insignificant either.
 

[quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127107" timestamp="1405845120"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127096" timestamp="1405844921"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127087" timestamp="1405844713"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127075" timestamp="1405844496"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127065" timestamp="1405844365"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127056" timestamp="1405844229"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127048" timestamp="1405844149"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127033" timestamp="1405843920"] [quote name="Soutpeel" post="8127007" timestamp="1405843509"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8126870" timestamp="1405841240"]@The OP
 
Come to Cambodia. Online freelancing is a legal option here. No requirement for a work permit. No requirement for language lessons. No ridiculously over-priced tourist visa either. $285/year all in. If you want a year's language lessons - that would cost about $100 on top.
 
I could afford the Elite card but there's no way on earth that I would afford it. 500K (that's $16k USD) Baht plus other fees for a 5 year tourist visa? Lol. If Thailand ever decides to enter the modern age and make it easy to incorporate a sole-trader that pays taxes but neither hires Thais nor hires an office; I'd consider moving to Thailand until then... not on your nelly.
 
The long-term impact of this visa crackdown is going to damage Thailand's ability to trade internationally give them a few years and economic pressures will make them relent (or at least come up with a sensible set of requirements for a long-term visa). Until then, come to the Kingdom of Wonder and enjoy a cheaper lifestyle without a single visit to register in a police station in your whole time here.[/quote]So how much income tax are you contributing to the Cambodian economy then
 [/quote] 
None. It's completely legal. My company does no business in Cambodia. It leaves me to decide where I will work. My company is a Hong Kong registered entity, trading completely overseas, no Hong Kong business allowed. I don't get paid a salary thus I have no income to tax. I pay an annual accounting fee in Hong Kong and can expense everything I can get a receipt for; including my rent, bills, etc. you don't pay taxes on expenses (apart from possibly VAT). If I can't get a receipt - I don't buy it.
 [/quote]So why would Thailand want you?

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
 [/quote]
Umm... because as my first post says; if I could incorporate in Thailand, I'd pay tax? Are you being deliberately obtuse?[/quote]
Yep. Sounds like an awesome deal for Thailand.

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Given that the tax on my company earnings would be equivalent to 8 x Thailand's GDP per capita - it's an awesome deal for Thailand. I wonder how much tax you're contributing Mr. High and Mighty? I suspect the answer is "nowhere near that much" but I'm full of myself anyway.[/quote]But no inclination to employ Thais or increase skills etc? 8 is my lucky number by the way. I'm happy for you your business is a great success.

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
No inclination to employ anyone at all. Why would I? I'm a sole-trader. I don't need staff. I don't need an office. And I expect 100% ownership of my business - not 49% of it. Hiring people would just drag my earnings down and then how would I pay my staff? Thailand can build hospitals with my taxes instead or schools... or they can't and they can't have those taxes. Simple equation.[/quote]Seems like they don't want them anyway?

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
I suspect as the knowledge based freelance economy grows that places like Thailand will start reaching out to companies like mine. We take no jobs from locals. (I don't do business in Asia at all - getting paid at the end of a project is too much like hard work, I stick to European, North American and Australian companies only as clients). We earn large amounts of money and we spend our money where we are. We're only a tiny percentage of global companies now - in 20 years, we're going to be much more significant.
 
Given the current visa fiasco in Thailand, I think Thailand has no idea what it really wants. The whole "Thailand doesn't want you" is in the imagination of ridiculous people living in Thailand; proudly contributing very little and over-inflating that contribution in their heads.
 
The Cambodian economy isn't so proud as to say; "Don't spend your money here." I think in the long run, I'll probably settle in Malaysia under the 2nd home program but I don't want to buy a home in Malaysia at the moment.

You seem like a good bloke and quite sincere. But I don't believe Thailand had any inclination to do what you would like. I lived in Japan for a long time and perhaps my opinions are warped from that experience. Everyone kept saying "the Japanese must do this..." But you know what? They don't particularly want to and they are fine with that. To me the Thais seem to have a similar attitude.

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Possibly but Thailand's not Japan. Economically it's a little bit behind China. China is already making moves to allow people like me to work there legally (and they aren't all that keen laowai/farang either).

It all comes down to money in the end. Japan is an economic powerhouse and like Western Europe/The US/Canada/Etc. it doesn't need the income vs. the hassle. Thailand almost certainly does. Once the dust settles on this crackdown and the implications (particularly in the teaching sector) are better understood - I think you'll see major changes to the visa regime to make it easier for people to give Thailand their money.

I believe it is but I haven't needed to avail myself of it.

[quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127065" timestamp="1405844365"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127056" timestamp="1405844229"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127048" timestamp="1405844149"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127033" timestamp="1405843920"] [quote name="Soutpeel" post="8127007" timestamp="1405843509"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8126870" timestamp="1405841240"]@The OP
 
Come to Cambodia. Online freelancing is a legal option here. No requirement for a work permit. No requirement for language lessons. No ridiculously over-priced tourist visa either. $285/year all in. If you want a year's language lessons - that would cost about $100 on top.
 
I could afford the Elite card but there's no way on earth that I would afford it. 500K (that's $16k USD) Baht plus other fees for a 5 year tourist visa? Lol. If Thailand ever decides to enter the modern age and make it easy to incorporate a sole-trader that pays taxes but neither hires Thais nor hires an office; I'd consider moving to Thailand until then... not on your nelly.
 
The long-term impact of this visa crackdown is going to damage Thailand's ability to trade internationally give them a few years and economic pressures will make them relent (or at least come up with a sensible set of requirements for a long-term visa). Until then, come to the Kingdom of Wonder and enjoy a cheaper lifestyle without a single visit to register in a police station in your whole time here.[/quote]So how much income tax are you contributing to the Cambodian economy then
 [/quote] 
None. It's completely legal. My company does no business in Cambodia. It leaves me to decide where I will work. My company is a Hong Kong registered entity, trading completely overseas, no Hong Kong business allowed. I don't get paid a salary thus I have no income to tax. I pay an annual accounting fee in Hong Kong and can expense everything I can get a receipt for; including my rent, bills, etc. you don't pay taxes on expenses (apart from possibly VAT). If I can't get a receipt - I don't buy it.
 [/quote]So why would Thailand want you?

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
 [/quote]
Umm... because as my first post says; if I could incorporate in Thailand, I'd pay tax? Are you being deliberately obtuse?[/quote]
Yep. Sounds like an awesome deal for Thailand.

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Given that the tax on my company earnings would be equivalent to 8 x Thailand's GDP per capita - it's an awesome deal for Thailand. I wonder how much tax you're contributing Mr. High and Mighty? I suspect the answer is "nowhere near that much" but I'm full of myself anyway.

But no inclination to employ Thais or increase skills etc? 8 is my lucky number by the way. I'm happy for you your business is a great success.

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

No inclination to employ anyone at all. Why would I? I'm a sole-trader. I don't need staff. I don't need an office. And I expect 100% ownership of my business - not 49% of it. Hiring people would just drag my earnings down and then how would I pay my staff? Thailand can build hospitals with my taxes instead or schools... or they can't and they can't have those taxes. Simple equation.

[quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127048" timestamp="1405844149"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127033" timestamp="1405843920"] [quote name="Soutpeel" post="8127007" timestamp="1405843509"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8126870" timestamp="1405841240"]@The OP
 
Come to Cambodia. Online freelancing is a legal option here. No requirement for a work permit. No requirement for language lessons. No ridiculously over-priced tourist visa either. $285/year all in. If you want a year's language lessons - that would cost about $100 on top.
 
I could afford the Elite card but there's no way on earth that I would afford it. 500K (that's $16k USD) Baht plus other fees for a 5 year tourist visa? Lol. If Thailand ever decides to enter the modern age and make it easy to incorporate a sole-trader that pays taxes but neither hires Thais nor hires an office; I'd consider moving to Thailand until then... not on your nelly.
 
The long-term impact of this visa crackdown is going to damage Thailand's ability to trade internationally give them a few years and economic pressures will make them relent (or at least come up with a sensible set of requirements for a long-term visa). Until then, come to the Kingdom of Wonder and enjoy a cheaper lifestyle without a single visit to register in a police station in your whole time here.[/quote]So how much income tax are you contributing to the Cambodian economy then
 [/quote] 
None. It's completely legal. My company does no business in Cambodia. It leaves me to decide where I will work. My company is a Hong Kong registered entity, trading completely overseas, no Hong Kong business allowed. I don't get paid a salary thus I have no income to tax. I pay an annual accounting fee in Hong Kong and can expense everything I can get a receipt for; including my rent, bills, etc. you don't pay taxes on expenses (apart from possibly VAT). If I can't get a receipt - I don't buy it.
 [/quote]So why would Thailand want you?

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
 [/quote]
Umm... because as my first post says; if I could incorporate in Thailand, I'd pay tax? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Yep. Sounds like an awesome deal for Thailand.

OB


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Given that the tax on my company earnings would be equivalent to 8 x Thailand's GDP per capita - it's an awesome deal for Thailand. I wonder how much tax you're contributing Mr. High and Mighty? I suspect the answer is "nowhere near that much" but I'm full of myself anyway.