peterkeip

The school can tell if they have been successful in the past getting unqualified people work permits but as Sly Animal pointed out it is not up to them.

I think some schools might hire someone without a degree if desperate but unlikely department of labor will issue a work permit.

The odds of working legally in a grade 1-12 Thai school long term is extremely low.

Especially when you'd like to have SS, which is only possible with a work permit.

So, in which way did you solve all these difficulties ?

I didn't step on too many other peoples' feet, f you know what i mean.

Just because of you, now I'm thinking twice, or maybe thrice, to give anybody else any sort of advice.

Thanks a lot Mr. Peter Kelp for your unselfish help.-

I do hope my questions helped some teachers on this forum to get some more updated information (from you and others), in order to survive in Thailand.

By the way: are you aware of what you have done ? Of course you have given a lot of detailed information and very good advice, but -on the other hand- some messages were just libel and slander, what is prohibited on this forum. You should know that. You could have send a private message to my email address, but instead you posted it in public forum: that´s -again- libel and slander. Apparantly I am not in the position to raise up your bad conscience... Instead I just realize irony and sarcasm.

My last question was: in which way did you solve all these difficulties: no degree, work permit, non-B-visa... Do you have something to hide ?

The school can tell if they have been successful in the past getting unqualified people work permits but as Sly Animal pointed out it is not up to them.

I think some schools might hire someone without a degree if desperate but unlikely department of labor will issue a work permit.

The odds of working legally in a grade 1-12 Thai school long term is extremely low.

Especially when you'd like to have SS, which is only possible with a work permit.

So, in which way did you solve all these difficulties ?

Not in your vicinty, i think, but if ever in Nong Khai try the large "IP" rated high school. offers an IP, EP, and MEP, no degree needed. As well have heard of a new program offering a MEP for P1-6, no qualifications as such required. As well as Tha Bo, Sri Chiang Mai,and Bueng Khan. All nice places to live with very relaxed requirements.

good luck!

ok thank you

If a school can find a 25 year old with same or better qualifications, who do you think they will hire.

You need to be better qualified than a younger person to get the job.

Di you feel you are better qualified than most people applying for the jobs you want?

If you were running the business, would you hire someone with your qualifications for the types of jobs you are applying? (I assume you have been applying for new jobs - correct? )

Of course I already contacted several schools and I am sure I can find a job somewhere in Isan, because of teacher´s shortage, but the school´s principal should tell me whether he can arrange a proper/legal contract, visa and work permit etc. for a non-native speaker without a degree or not. That -in my opinion- would be fair.

Am I right ?

Peter, the impermanence of things over here is something you will know by now?

Everything is in flux: panta rhei... Everything is changing. As you are changing yourself, too.

Thanks to LostinIsaan for his helpful and practical tips. Just do it and don't worry about irrelevant stuff like being able to do this for more than the next semester.

Right now, schools are screaming out for teachers!

Give it your best shot and live in the moment. It might end in a few months or in a few years. OH NO THIS WOULD BE WORSE Chances are that you won't be staying at any school fo longer than a couple of years

Hi WonnabeBiker, thanks for your comment, but I really have to consider about the future, that means for the next 15 years. Now I am 49 and I have to find continously a Job (interruptions would be worse, because I really need a regular and permanent income (and social security, provided from school as well) for these next 15 years, until the age of 65, then I am expecting an old-age-pension from my home country. Teaching just for a couple of years would be financially disastrous. That why I am striving for teaching as long as possible: Do you know about contacts of employment ? Many times they end up after a year and the teacher has to search for a new job at another School. Does it mean that I have to do a visa run as well ? Thank you ...

I meant: in case of a contract ends (so, work permit and non-B-visa, too) and you fortunately got a new job at another school in the same city...(Sisaket)

Can I get a new 1-year-non-B-visa at the Immigraton Office or do I have to go on a visa run to Laos (Savannakhet) again and again ? Thank you for your reply ....

I think you're just irritated through so many threads you'd started and you might consider following:

Many foreigners who didn't get another provisional teacher's license found a way ( with the help of the school) to bypass the Teacher's Council of Thailand. Their contracts are changed in a way that they're still doing what they always did, which is teaching full time at a government school.

With bypassing the TCT I mean that they do not need a teacher's license which isn't really legal, but pretty much common these days.

There is a shortage of qualified and experienced teachers, so some schools " help" out in form of changing the contract in a way that your responsibilities in the contract are different to those when being a full time teacher. But finally you're teaching full time and not somebody's assistant.

So the title teacher's assistant, trainer, or curriculum consultant, whatever fancy name you can think of, is just made up for people who don't have the right credentials to apply for a teacher's license.license. Employees of labor departments, who issue work permits are aware of this.

Rules in this country differ from province to province. What's pretty easy in Sisaket to "become" a trainer at a school, could be impossible in other provinces.And i'm pretty sure that some schools even pay some money "under the table" to the DOL, to get foreigners on their boat.

A Lecturer is usually somebody working at a university and ( usually,not always) a Master's, or PhD is needed to get such a position. Let's put is this way. they wouldn't hire you as a lecturer, teaching English to university students, as a non native English speaker.

I could have started as a lecturer at a well -known university in Bangkok, working for the language department, "lecturing" the German language, but finally decided that big city life isn't really what I want.

To get to the point. As far as I remember are you married to a woman from Sisaket area and you wanted to work in this province, right?

By now, you must have figured that out, that there's no such thing like a secure job, where you can teach until you get your pension from Germany, which would be more than 15 years.

If i were you, I'd spend less time in front of a monitor to write posts which you did with this one. Create a very good resume, take a sleeper train to Sisaket, where your family lives. ( That's what you'd written before)

Print out a few sets of your resume, look for some character references, dress well and visit some schools. One problem might be the midterm break, as many people are on a vacation, not too many people are at school now.

I know of at least three people here who have the title "trainer', as they neither have a degree, nor real teaching experience. But they're hired at a good school and they also have a pretty good salary.

Nothing will change if you're always creating new threads, the question is always the same. You're looking for a full time teaching position, right?

If you'd follow my advice and you wouldn't be successful, you could drive to Ubon Ratchathani, which is the neighboring province with even more schools than Sisaket has and try your luck there.

As other members have already suggested, there're so called lifetime experience degrees for about 15 K. I do not want to give advice to do something illegal, but such a degree is not like a Khao San road degree.

Then the university from the Philippines with an office in Bangkok, where you could make a BA in education for a reasonable amount of money.

If you continue to ask questions on a forum like this one, without actually doing something, you'll never find a job. Sending resumes to schools that are seeking a native English speaking teacher will not be successful and most, if not all, won't even reply when you send them your resume.

I think you know where I'm coming from, as you couldn't become a teacher back in your country of origin, when you'd just finished high school.

You wrote that you're teaching on Phuket, so there must be a way that you can make it to Sisaket to show your face in person. Many schools are seeking teachers, so your chances aren't too bad.Once in Sisaket, you could visit Frank's "Living in the Past."

He's the longest reigning foreigner, running a restaurant in Sisaket and must be living there for about 99 years already.

He's also German, knows many people, a lot of the teaching folks come to his place to get something to eat and you'd have a place to go to, instead of asking Thais at the train station where all the schools are.

I wish you best of luck finding a teaching position until you're 65.

Thank you for your reply.

You might be astonished, but there are still some unanswered questions: in case of a 1-year-contract is not extended, do I have to leave the country for a renewal of my visa ?

How about this lifetime experience degree ? Could you please explain ?

In my situation studying for a degree seems impossible (3 years, approx. 4000/5000 Euros, working full-time at the same time),so, do you think TEFL+TOEIC will be accepted in the longterm ?

By the way: I told the truth: actually an ATM scam happened to me (there must have been a camera at the ATM machine) and a part of my money was stolen, but my bank refused to refund anything...No need to lie... Any information is very much appreciated ...

As soon as your employment ends, so does your visa and work permit, which is always only issued for the particular school you’re working at.

If you’re married, you can get a Non-O visa issued in Sawannakhet/Laos, without the 400K proof in a Thai bank.

That’s only possible in Sawannakhet, all you need is your original marriage certificate, your wife’s ID copied and signed.

Should you not be married and apply for a Non-B in Laos with the right paperwork from your school, you'll get 90 days time to solve any issues regarding the "provisional teacher's license, also called "waiver letter."

Within the 90 days you have to do all to get your provisional TL, then apply for your work permit.

The work permit only takes three days, then you can extend your visa for another nine month at the local Immigration, in the province where you're working.

You’re also allowed to teach on a Non-O visa, which might be more convenient, as it’s independent from your contract, or time of employment.

Again, a TEFL doesn't allow you to teach here. I've got one, also a TSOL, but nobody at a school was even interested in looking at it.

The TOEIC would only make sense, once you've got a degree.It's a requirement from the TCT, but it seems that they're restructuring a lot.It could be that another test will replace the TOEIC soon.

Please remember, Google is your best friend.

Please Google “lifetime experience degree” and find out what’s suitable for you.

I hope I could help you with this information. Best of luck.

Just to be sure: in case of one´s contract ends (and also work permit and non-B-visa) the teacher has to apply for a new one and has to leave the country (visa run to Savannakhet) or can it be done at the Immigration Office in Sisaket in case of having a new job (contract) ? Thank you ...

I think you're just irritated through so many threads you'd started and you might consider following:

Many foreigners who didn't get another provisional teacher's license found a way ( with the help of the school) to bypass the Teacher's Council of Thailand. Their contracts are changed in a way that they're still doing what they always did, which is teaching full time at a government school.

With bypassing the TCT I mean that they do not need a teacher's license which isn't really legal, but pretty much common these days.

There is a shortage of qualified and experienced teachers, so some schools " help" out in form of changing the contract in a way that your responsibilities in the contract are different to those when being a full time teacher. But finally you're teaching full time and not somebody's assistant.

So the title teacher's assistant, trainer, or curriculum consultant, whatever fancy name you can think of, is just made up for people who don't have the right credentials to apply for a teacher's license.license. Employees of labor departments, who issue work permits are aware of this.

Rules in this country differ from province to province. What's pretty easy in Sisaket to "become" a trainer at a school, could be impossible in other provinces.And i'm pretty sure that some schools even pay some money "under the table" to the DOL, to get foreigners on their boat.

A Lecturer is usually somebody working at a university and ( usually,not always) a Master's, or PhD is needed to get such a position. Let's put is this way. they wouldn't hire you as a lecturer, teaching English to university students, as a non native English speaker.

I could have started as a lecturer at a well -known university in Bangkok, working for the language department, "lecturing" the German language, but finally decided that big city life isn't really what I want.

To get to the point. As far as I remember are you married to a woman from Sisaket area and you wanted to work in this province, right?

By now, you must have figured that out, that there's no such thing like a secure job, where you can teach until you get your pension from Germany, which would be more than 15 years.

If i were you, I'd spend less time in front of a monitor to write posts which you did with this one. Create a very good resume, take a sleeper train to Sisaket, where your family lives. ( That's what you'd written before)

Print out a few sets of your resume, look for some character references, dress well and visit some schools. One problem might be the midterm break, as many people are on a vacation, not too many people are at school now.

I know of at least three people here who have the title "trainer', as they neither have a degree, nor real teaching experience. But they're hired at a good school and they also have a pretty good salary.

Nothing will change if you're always creating new threads, the question is always the same. You're looking for a full time teaching position, right?

If you'd follow my advice and you wouldn't be successful, you could drive to Ubon Ratchathani, which is the neighboring province with even more schools than Sisaket has and try your luck there.

As other members have already suggested, there're so called lifetime experience degrees for about 15 K. I do not want to give advice to do something illegal, but such a degree is not like a Khao San road degree.

Then the university from the Philippines with an office in Bangkok, where you could make a BA in education for a reasonable amount of money.

If you continue to ask questions on a forum like this one, without actually doing something, you'll never find a job. Sending resumes to schools that are seeking a native English speaking teacher will not be successful and most, if not all, won't even reply when you send them your resume.

I think you know where I'm coming from, as you couldn't become a teacher back in your country of origin, when you'd just finished high school.

You wrote that you're teaching on Phuket, so there must be a way that you can make it to Sisaket to show your face in person. Many schools are seeking teachers, so your chances aren't too bad.Once in Sisaket, you could visit Frank's "Living in the Past."

He's the longest reigning foreigner, running a restaurant in Sisaket and must be living there for about 99 years already.

He's also German, knows many people, a lot of the teaching folks come to his place to get something to eat and you'd have a place to go to, instead of asking Thais at the train station where all the schools are.

I wish you best of luck finding a teaching position until you're 65.

Thank you for your reply.

You might be astonished, but there are still some unanswered questions: in case of a 1-year-contract is not extended, do I have to leave the country for a renewal of my visa ?

How about this lifetime experience degree ? Could you please explain ?

In my situation studying for a degree seems impossible (3 years, approx. 4000/5000 Euros, working full-time at the same time),so, do you think TEFL+TOEIC will be accepted in the longterm ?

By the way: I told the truth: actually an ATM scam happened to me (there must have been a camera at the ATM machine) and a part of my money was stolen, but my bank refused to refund anything...No need to lie... Any information is very much appreciated ...

Hi to anybody, as far as I got to know: non-native speakers that just hold TEFL/TOEIC/TOEFL/IELTS etc. do get a provisional teacher´s permit certificate, 2 years valid, only. In addition a work permit and a non-Immigrant-B-visa can be issued.

In order to obtain a permanent teacher´s licence (renewed every 5 years) you will need an educational degree (BA/MA etc.).

As I understood it in the right way: so called unqualified teachers (without a degree) have to leave the country after 2 ? 3 ? 4 ? years ? Is that right or are there further options ?

Thank you very much for your reply

SOUND ADVICE! If you're coming to Thailand for a self-supporting "work/play", 2-3 year, single person's excursion, then fine. Otherwise, Thailand is nothing but a total waste of time & effort, especially if you're a professional educator. The Thai Ministry of Education isn't even serious about educating their own people, especially on the Public Education level.

Go to China, Japan, Korean or Vietnam instead, where public education is a "real" priority, with better pay scales, and excellent accommodations provided w/ the compensation package. Pay attention here, or learn a future lesson. Capiche?

Yes, as just a TEFL-teacher your teaching licence is limited (3 ?4 ? years only). If you can´t afford a University Programme for a degree, what can you do instead of leaving the country ? Probably working at vocational schools or private schools which aren´t under TCT, right ? How about Cambodia or Vietnam ? Thank you ...

Bring copies of your transcripts as well. You should have photocopies/scans and also originals. Depending on school and area some demand originals.

Don't worry about teacher's license unless you are actually going to live here for more than 3 years.

Things are up in the air and constantly changing.

Used to be:

1. after 1 year take Thai culture course

2. if you don't have a degree in education or a teacher's license from your home country: take a series of exams 1 is easy, 1 is, hard, 1 is almost impossible.

3. If you don't go that route, you could enroll in a Thai program for a degree in education. There are some scams/degree mills and some legitimate programs. The problem though is that they won't allow you teach outside of the country. They also won't be accepted by top paying international school jobs. Better to get a Masters in Education or whatever your country has for teacher's college.

Cost depends on program but say on average of about 8-10k USD. Length of time is typically 2-4 years depending on full or part time.

If teaching is a career choice for you and you ever want to work outside of Thailand, do not get a degree in education here. Get one back in your home country.

Hi, could you please explain that Thai program for a degree in education ? Where ? When ? How much ? 3 exams ? Thank you ...

First of all having a teacher's license isn't a new thing. It has been policy for over 6 years. There are several ways to appease this requirement and having a degree in education is one way but not the only way.

Second of all there are many qualified teachers here in Thailand making low wages and are happy. It is giving them a chance to work and live abroad and build some experience to help them get better jobs back home later.

Thailand salaries aren't really that low for similar positions. China has many jobs paying about 30-40k a month for TEFL positions but they usually add housing and flights. The lower wages in Thailand like 15-20k are way too low but anything above 40k is a reasonable salary.

The problem isn't the availability of teachers it is the mismanagement of them.

The low salaries of Thailand are ok if you want to live like a backpacker for a year or two and forgo little luxuries.

The Thai government are certainly keeping out more mature teachers who would come if salaries were reasonable.

In my opinion, insisting on a degree before teaching here is over the top. There are a great many graduates in a range of disciplines whose grammar and punctuation leaves a lot to be desired. To have at least TEFLA training is essential. The rest will come with experience

There are experienced English teachers in this country, but no degree, and their expertise is lost. Go to China or Malaysia and listen to the number of people around you who can speak English. It's their second language.

OK I am an older teacher. First i will clarify that I do not do it for the money. I am retired and do it for pocket money and to stop the boredom.

That being said if you look at the living conditions and cost of living here in Thailand and compare it to where you come from you are actually getting paid pretty good money.

Let's face it no one comes to Thailand to get a job as a teacher as the primary reason unless they are a young teacher that needs some street cred back home.

If you stay away from the bars every night 30-40k a month should keep you very happy. If it does not then you really need to look at your lifestyle. Thai teachers make a hell of a lot less as also most Thais do and they live well.

I am sure no matter what people were paid there would still be people complaining.

As to the certification yes you need a degree to get a work permit in most cases. that is relatively easy to do if you want to put in the time and effort at a Thai university.

Hi, could you please explain how do get a degree ? Which university ? How long does it take ? How much is it ? Thank you very much in advance

As an English teacher, and having been here for over 2 years now, I can say that the system DOES need to be overhauled. However, making an Education degree a requirement is NOT the way to go. I myself do not have an Education degree. I have been teaching for a large amount of my life though in military, corporate and government settings. I do have a TEFL certificate.

By the standards that have been proposed, I will be out of a job when my extension of teaching license expires in 2 years, and will have to return to the USA. I have done continuing education, and I have also challenged the Thai teachers' test, passing 4 of the 9 sections. Now though, the test has been discontinued and there is no clear steps anymore for us to get a license other than to have the Education degree.

I agree that the backpackers with nothing to do that are just teaching to pass the time until the weekend should go. The teachers that are working on a tourist visa should go - the visa runs have effectively killed that now. But make all of us have an Education degree, and there are going to be NO teachers in this country inside of a year. Salaries are not competitive (out in the sticks in Phrae province, I make 30ish K Baht, and live comfortably, but near any city or tourist center it would be difficult to live on.

If the requirement for an Education degree goes into effect, a higher salary MUST be paid. End of story. I can't afford to go back to school on my salary to get my M. Ed. degree....so unless something changes I, too, will be leaving Thailand in 2 years.....even though my school has already offered to keep me on permanently.

Hi, could you please explain, why you have to leave Thailand in 2 years ? Does it mean: your current teaching licence is valid for 4 years only ?

Somebody told my that TEFLer can still teach at some vocational or private schools, because they aren´t under TCT. Is that true ? If yes, this might be an opportunity in the longterm...?

Looking forward to hearing from you soon...

Are these positions accessible for language teachers that hold a TEFL-certificate, 3-months-teacher-training at a private language school), which means no BA/Ma degree ? If yes. is this possible in the longterm ?

Hi, I would like to know: which universities in Thailand offer German programmes for Thai students ?

Thank you very much in advance for your reply

Hi, does anybody know ? Can I change my tourist visa into a non-Immigrant-B-visa at Pakse (Laos)

or do I have to go to Savannakhet ? Thank you very much in advance ...

Does anybody know ... what does a passport extension cost ? Last time I sent my German passport from Phuket (German Consulat) to Bangkok (German Embassy) and had to pay approximately 8000 THB (for 32 pages) for another 10 years.

Thank you ...

Why don't you just go around from school to school and "offer" your service, well dressed and behaved?

One of the well known primary schools just hired two 20 year old youngsters from Loch Nessie's home.

They do not have a degree, but a lot of teaching experience (Lol) and seem to be "trainers", or "teacher's assistants" with work permits and social benefits, as the SS.

Quite a lot people are working for agencies in Sisaket. Please Google and you'll find out which the two biggest are. The one starts with an A, the other one with a G.

Honestly speaking, it seems that a lot do not have a BA, plus some are from countries, where English isn't the first language.

I'd never tell you to "study for a lifetime degree." But unfortunately, there're many ways that lead to Rome.

Please be aware that some schools are already closed due midterm and so longer you're waiting, so less are the chances to get you a job.

Most primary schools in Sisaket close around the 10th of September. Best of luck.-

I am 49 and plan to live in Thailand forever, because I got a Thai wife and a daughter.

That means: teaching as long as possible at schools (but just holding a TEFL-certification).

Because Thai teachers finish working when they are 60, I am asking whether it´s possible to work as a foreign teacher when older than 60.

How about passport extensions ? Last time I paid approximately 8000 THB for another 10 years (sending my passport from German Consulat in Phuket to German Embassy in Bangkok).

It's around 3 % taxes you'll have to pay, usually annually. But having a Thai wife and kids helps to deduct some money. End of September is the best time to look for a job. Try to find a position ,where you can get some background information about the institution before you start there.

What's your educational background, just asking as it might help a lot to give you advice. Have you ever taught a language to anybody, beside your own kids?

Teaching English can be a pretty though job. Most people around you are faceless. Be aware. Good luck.

Hi and thank you for your reply. Sorry for answering very late. About my educational background: I just got a TEFL-certificate from TTT-Language-School, Phuket in 2008, which means a 3-months-teacher´s Training. Besides 4 years of experience teaching at private language Schools, sometimes hotel staff or Office employees. But unfortunately I don´t hold BA or MA degree. Meanwhile I got to know this might be sufficient for teaching at vocational schools like Technology Schools. All in all I worry more about several uncertainties such as: 1-year-contracts, 90-days-reports at Immigration Office, visa and work-permit has to renewed annually (lots of paper work, lots of troubles), unability to speak or understand "Isan Thai" yet, hard to find some friends, feeling like an animal in the zoo etc. ... I am German, 49. How about you ? Where are you from and where are you teaching ? Nice to talk to you again ....

I already sent a job application to Technology School. I fear they will not answer or give any advice or information...

Will they accept TEFL (Teaching English as a Foreign Language, 3-months-teachers´training at a private language school)-certificates ?

Will I get a teaching licence (weaver) and a work permit ?

I don´t hold Bachelor or Master degree.

I absolutely would like to know for sure whether there is a long term perspective or not ...

Thank you for your reply

Dear Sir/Madam,

is it possible to get a work permit without Bachelor or Master degree ?

I just hold TEFL-certificate (3-months-teachers´training at a private language school). Thank you

How many times are you going to ask these questions?

You cannot teach in a school that is governed by OBEC, includes both government and private schools and colleges, without a degree. The school/college have no say on the matter.

You need permission from the Teachers Council of Thailand. Without that permission you cannot get a work permit and thus you will be illegal.

If you really could understand my situation, you wouldn´t claim.

I prefer to be very well informed, before flying to Thailand. It´s far away and expensive.

Obviously many people are discussing those questions, but not everybody knows the truth.

Hopefully your information is right.

Thank you

I would like to know: are Technology Colleges private or government schools ?

Do they accept teachers do not holding BA or MA degrees ?

Thank you very much for answering...

I would like to know something more about Technology Colleges... Are those colleges private or government schools ?

Do such schools accept teachers without BA/MA degrees ?

Thanks a lot for your reply