Lenn2005

Honda Civic 2001, VTEC, LEV, VTi, Automatic. Full options, Beige, 124,000km,

Sevice records. 450,000 Baht.

Am heading back to Australia and would be sad to part with this great car.

Call 0851503688

I'm still a little bit confused about the criteria for this. Can anyone confirm if this is correct.

Applicant must be over 50 years of age.

Married to a Thai.

Shown as a parent on thai childs birth certificate.

Are there any other requirments apart from the document that the op mentioned his wife having to sign.

Thanks.

That's right, Cobber, just those three qualifiers, or just one and three, according to Sunbelt. There have been many differing interpretations on TV about 7.17 (5), but Sunbelt's explanation seems to hold for now. On the other hand, a few people (including me) have enquired about this in provincial IM offices, and they've been clueless. Going to BKK and getting Sunbelt (or another IM lawyer) seems to be way to go; there don't seem to be any do-it-yourself success stories on TV to date.

careful....7.17 (5) is fine if your're not married, over 50 and have a child, BUT you are not legally recognised as the father without having to go through the courts which will take a really long time and cost an arm and a leg. they will not extend your visa unless this is done. Sunbelt assured me that wasn't the case and they were wrong. I'm back to where I've started minus 9,300 baht which I've paid in total to Sunbelt for a 2 month extension. I think I was lucky to even get that.

hi,

just wondering if anyone knows about child custody laws regarding the father being a farang and the mother a Thai. we are not married and as it stands I don't have any legal rights what so ever to my child. I am not even recognised as being the father. I will marry if it would mean having some say to the mother just getting up and walking out with the child. she has done this a few times and it's scary and costly. also, should we marry, what entitlements would she have to my assets and money?

this next bit is for Sunbelt. what's happened to the Non O visa one year extension you promised to get me? I've paid you a total of 9,300 and was only granted a two months extension. not what I had in mind. I made it clear that not being married could pose a problem and that the only other way would be to go through the courts to get registration as being the father...long and costly process. bit dissapointing really. what are you going to do about it? a full refund would be most appropriate don't you think seeing that you've promised that too. I quote your very own words:

"Our professional fee is 6,500 Baht. On the renewal next year its just 3,900 Baht. Please don't surmise " if you pay a lawyer to represent you which means a ridiculous fee " as not all legal fees charged by lawyers are the same. By the way, with us, if we don't get you the extension, no professional fee will be charged.

Unfortunately not all the officers know this new law yet. Bottomline, if you are over 50 years old, have a non immigrant visa and have a Thai child, no reason why you should ever be denied.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com"

"Yes. I'm sure. If you don't get it , you have my blessing to come on and say" we are full of baloney""

hi,

yes, I've had a recent experience. infact today. I tried twice this week using the TM7 form..section 17.7..clause 5 of the immigration act. what a bloody frustrating waste of time. they hadn't a clue what this was about and said that they are only told what to do by the higher authorities and that is to only issue two kinds of non..0 visas...one is a retirement and the other for supporting a wife and/or child. either one will require that you have money. for supporting a a wife/child...you need to declare an income of....ummmm...that's another question. don't build your hopes up on this stunt if I were you. it might work if you pay a lawer to represent you which means a rediculous fee and without a doubt, some of that will line the pockets of you know who.

cheers

Well we have done it for our clients without "line the pockets of you know who" A legal firm is suppose to make your life smoother. If we didn’t we wouldn’t have a job.

Our professional fee is 6,500 Baht. On the renewal next year its just 3,900 Baht. Please don't surmise " if you pay a lawyer to represent you which means a ridiculous fee " as not all legal fees charged by lawyers are the same. By the way, with us, if we don't get you the extension, no professional fee will be charged.

Unfortunately not all the officers know this new law yet. Bottomline, if you are over 50 years old, have a non immigrant visa and have a Thai child, no reason why you should ever be denied.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

sunbelt, can you really do this for me? going from the experience I've had in the past two days...it really looked like an absolute No No. they didn't want to know about it and simply said it was not in their power to give me this visa extension. Iemailed you a couple of days ago asking if this is possible and i'm still waiting for a reply. I will gladly pay the 6,500 baht...it's nothing compared to the expenses I will have to bear if I have to do embassy runs.

cheers

and yes, I apologise...we're not all crooks.

Lenn, I was not and still not married when I went through my visa, but I was simply told by the Amphur and my lawyer and someone else as well, to get married, it would be much simpler, quicker, cheaper etc and this was after the child was born. So to answer your question, as far as my experience goes, it should be ok.....but TIT as you know.

By the way, you have not answered my last PM to you about this ??

Maestro, you mentioned it should make no difference being married or not as long as you are on the birth certificate. Now I am not sure if your comment is purely for the over 50yo, or for anyone. I can assure you that it does matter and it means absolutely nothing, if you are not married...but I am 42yo, so not sure if something else kicks in at 50yo re this, I would presume not.

Here was my situation.....

I had been here on a non imm O visa, originaly issued in Oz, then I think the second renewal we happened to be going back to Oz around that time, so I simply got it again from Oz. In the meantime I did the 3 monthly visa runs to wherever.

When the 3rd year came around, I was tired of being told that I have to go somewhere every 90 days, while I enjoyed going away for a few days, I started to be pissed off with being told I had to do this on this day etc etc.

So I started to research my options, I had just had my second child, she was born here in Los and I am not married, village way or legal registry way. I found the only real option was the support of a thai child visa. But I was told by immigration that because I was not married, I could not get it as the child is not recognised as mine.

Now as I found this to be incredible, even for Los, I asked several visa outlets and lawyers and with some variations, basically it all meant the same thing. We also went to the Amphur to discuss options.....all said just get married, nobody could understand why i would not just get married (I was not going to be told to get married by anyone let alone these monkies)

I eventually got a lawyer we know to look into it, she said she can do it, but I had to go to court and be formerly recognised as the legal father, regardless of being on the birth certificate or not. I had to provide proof of income, photos of the family together, a reprasentitive from the family court was going to come and check the house, but they never did and then I had a prelimery interview at what I think was the family court offices. We were asked many questions, provided documents which were prepared by the lawyer and basically what this interview was for, was a prelimary to the actual court appearance.

If we pass this interview, all was sweet, we get the court date and recommendations for it. About a month later, we had the family court appearance. I had a list of questions that the judge was going to ask, I had to basically remember them and there was a translator for me provided by my lawyer. This went without problems and the documents were granted stating I am the legal father etc.

This was then taken to immigration a week or so later and along with the standard required documents, it was processed and then had to wait 1 month for approval, went back and it was all approved without fuss.

A year later I went in for a renewal, provided the docs required and paid the 1900 I think it was, same deal wait a month and all was processed ok. I have now been in the country for 19 months without leaving, nice to know I can stay without the visa run demands.

The simple thing to get from this is, if your married, it should be relatively plain sailing as long as you have the requirements. If you are not married, then you have to jump through all these hoops.

Also keep in mind this was nearly 2 years ago and things change as we know here.

Hope it helps someone.

My lawyer is also doing the same thing for a friend, for cheaper than what I paid, so I guess I paved the way. So if anyone else would be interested let me know, I do not want to be recommending just anyone to her as I am sure you can understand that I do not want her doing this for someone who may then do the wrong thing or may be unable to provide what they need to provide. Most important thing is to prove funds and support either way.

I would also be very interested to see what sunbelt says about my experience above as someone mentioned that thier lawyers are doing this matter of factly and easily without the court appearance, or was that in relation to a married person only.

hi Nawtilus,

thanks for sharing this. I really don't think it's going to make any difference weather I'm married or not. declaring the money you earn is the real issue for me. I'm working for three different schools and none of them are prepared to give me a work permit, so I can't declare my income. I am so jacked off at the moment with these monkeys it's not funny. my employers should be giving me a work permit but they won't because they don't want to fork out the money and they can get away with it by paying some prick off probably. it's a no win situation for me at the moment. the only option I have is to keep going to embassys every 2 or 3 months and getting a tourist visa. I'm doing an online TEFL course at the moment and when this is finished, one of my employers said that they will issue me with a work permit. until then, I really can't afford the headache and time dealing with these idiots. I don't know about you, but I've just about had a gutfull of this country and will be heading back to Oz when my daughter is a little older.

cheers

sounds like you got a better Thai lawyer than the two I had. My 2 ex-lawyers (working independently) used to tell me info that was out-dated. Sometimes I would question what they advised on the spot, and sometimes I would go elsewhere to get the best info I could, and then comeback later to set them straight. The message here is two-fold:

1. Don't take all that a Thai lawyer tells you at face value. Always double check any important info.

2. Don't pay before they've done the designated job. They'll always happily take an 'advance' and they'll never ever offer any refund it it turns out their services are faulty, miscalculated or non-executed.

absolutely right...can't trust any these buggers. they're all out to make a buck any way they can and I think that goes for the farang lawers as well. they'll twist the laws to suit them and we have absolutely no say to any of this. there is no law in this country.

In your case, age is the crucial factor. If you are 50 or older, you can apply for an annual extension of stay. No proof of income or money in the bank required.

If you are younger than 50, you cannot get an extension based on being the father of a Thai child, not even with proof of income or money in the bank. Your alternatives are

1. if you are working and meet certain criteria, extension based on employment

2. non-O visas, as you just got in Penang. Penang and many other locations issue only single-entry visa. As per latest reports, in the region Kuala Lumpur and Singapore still issue multiple-entry visa, but nobody can say how long this will continue.

---------------

Maestro

Thanks Maestro

Does anybody have any recent experience of obtaining a NON-O under similar circumstances as mine?

Thanks again

Nikkijah

hi,

yes, I've had a recent experience. infact today. I tried twice this week using the TM7 form..section 17.7..clause 5 of the immigration act. what a bloody frustrating waste of time. they hadn't a clue what this was about and said that they are only told what to do by the higher authorities and that is to only issue two kinds of non..0 visas...one is a retirement and the other for supporting a wife and/or child. either one will require that you have money. for supporting a a wife/child...you need to declare an income of....ummmm...that's another question. don't build your hopes up on this stunt if I were you. it might work if you pay a lawer to represent you which means a rediculous fee and without a doubt, some of that will line the pockets of you know who.

cheers

hi Nawtilus,

doesn't seem to be an end to all this shit....

am wondering...if we got married...would I be recognised legally as the father? they could turn around and say that the child was born before we got married and therefore would still have to go through some bullshit process.

this place is really starting to give me the shits...I'm seriously contemplating just packing up and going back to Auss and have my daughter and the mum come later when I've settled a bit.

Correct based on 7.17 (5) of the National Police Office Order No. 606/2006

If married with Thai child, then you should not apply under 7.17 (6), if you are over 50 years old.

am wondering if this would apply to my situation. I'm 51 and supporting a Thai defacto and our child.

Lenn2000, and also nuu hope, if you have not yet seen form TM.7 for application of extension of stay, look at it here. If you print it from here for your application, be sure to print both pages on one sheet of paper, two-sided. Most immigration offices will accept this downloaded form.

Now go and read paragraph 7.17, clause (5) of the Police Order 606/2006. There are two English translations on the Internet. One, which I consider to be the better of the two, is by Sunbelt and downloadable here, the other is on the website of the Immigration Bureau.

If you choose to apply under 7.17(5), remember what Sunbelt said: forget about your wife, forget about your marriage certificate and your wife’s ID. And forget about “support”. You are not applying to support your Thai child, but to live with your Thai child. For all anybody cares, your child could be 30 years old, earning a good salary and be supporting you. All you need is a document to prove your relationship with your Thai child, i.e. the child’s birth certificate indicating you as the father and perhaps also proof of the child’s Thai nationality, i.e. Thai passport or Thai ID card. Bring these, and if immigration wants anything else they will tell you (perhaps house registration, I don’t know, have not yet done this type of extension)

Now go back to the form TM.7 and look at the bottom of page 1, where there is the field “Reason(s) for extension”. What do your write here? There’s plenty of space here, so write enough to make it clear in what capacity you apply. For my application, I plan to write “To live with my Thai child, in accordance with paragraph 7.17, clause 5 of the Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters No. 606/2549”. (Note that here I use the title as used in the English translation on the website of the Immigration Bureau. When dealing with government offices, use their own language, in order to avoid confusion)

---------------

Maestro

hi Maestro,

got some bad news regarding the TM7 form..paragraph7.17, clause 5. went to immigration yesterday armed with a copy of my passport and my daughter's birth certificate and was turned down. I couldn't understand why. they kept pointing to something in the clause and saying that I have to go to an Ampur to do something. I'm just wondering what it could be. I went through a process of elimination and couldn't work what it that's required. Perhaps it's the copy of census registration..what ever that is. Perhaps it's because I'm not married to the mother and I'm not recognised as the legal father. From what I've heard, I have to register myself as the father and this is a long and costly process. any thoughts on this?

cheers

3. Copy of the proof of relationship

such as marriage evidences, birth

certificate, certificate of child

adoption registration, copy of census

registration, certificate of adopted

child adoption registration, or other

papers issued by the related official

organization or government

agencies.

4. The evidences of having Thai

nationality of the marriage couple,

father, mother, ordinary child, or

adopted child such as ID Card,

census registration, or other papers

issued by the related official

organization or government

Correct based on 7.17 (5) of the National Police Office Order No. 606/2006

If married with Thai child, then you should not apply under 7.17 (6), if you are over 50 years old.

am wondering if this would apply to my situation. I'm 51 and supporting a Thai defacto and our child.

Lenn2000, and also nuu hope, if you have not yet seen form TM.7 for application of extension of stay, look at it here. If you print it from here for your application, be sure to print both pages on one sheet of paper, two-sided. Most immigration offices will accept this downloaded form.

Now go and read paragraph 7.17, clause (5) of the Police Order 606/2006. There are two English translations on the Internet. One, which I consider to be the better of the two, is by Sunbelt and downloadable here, the other is on the website of the Immigration Bureau.

If you choose to apply under 7.17(5), remember what Sunbelt said: forget about your wife, forget about your marriage certificate and your wife’s ID. And forget about “support”. You are not applying to support your Thai child, but to live with your Thai child. For all anybody cares, your child could be 30 years old, earning a good salary and be supporting you. All you need is a document to prove your relationship with your Thai child, i.e. the child’s birth certificate indicating you as the father and perhaps also proof of the child’s Thai nationality, i.e. Thai passport or Thai ID card. Bring these, and if immigration wants anything else they will tell you (perhaps house registration, I don’t know, have not yet done this type of extension)

Now go back to the form TM.7 and look at the bottom of page 1, where there is the field “Reason(s) for extension”. What do your write here? There’s plenty of space here, so write enough to make it clear in what capacity you apply. For my application, I plan to write “To live with my Thai child, in accordance with paragraph 7.17, clause 5 of the Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters No. 606/2549”. (Note that here I use the title as used in the English translation on the website of the Immigration Bureau. When dealing with government offices, use their own language, in order to avoid confusion)

---------------

Maestro

hello Meastro,

Just got one more question regarding what to write here. " I wish to apply for an extension of temporary stay for another period of..........days."

my single entry visa expires on the 20th of next month but I'm going to try to get this extension next week just in case things go wrong.

thanks and cheers

Len

Correct based on 7.17 (5) of the National Police Office Order No. 606/2006

If married with Thai child, then you should not apply under 7.17 (6), if you are over 50 years old.

am wondering if this would apply to my situation. I'm 51 and supporting a Thai defacto and our child.

Lenn2000, and also nuu hope, if you have not yet seen form TM.7 for application of extension of stay, look at it here. If you print it from here for your application, be sure to print both pages on one sheet of paper, two-sided. Most immigration offices will accept this downloaded form.

Now go and read paragraph 7.17, clause (5) of the Police Order 606/2006. There are two English translations on the Internet. One, which I consider to be the better of the two, is by Sunbelt and downloadable here, the other is on the website of the Immigration Bureau.

If you choose to apply under 7.17(5), remember what Sunbelt said: forget about your wife, forget about your marriage certificate and your wife’s ID. And forget about “support”. You are not applying to support your Thai child, but to live with your Thai child. For all anybody cares, your child could be 30 years old, earning a good salary and be supporting you. All you need is a document to prove your relationship with your Thai child, i.e. the child’s birth certificate indicating you as the father and perhaps also proof of the child’s Thai nationality, i.e. Thai passport or Thai ID card. Bring these, and if immigration wants anything else they will tell you (perhaps house registration, I don’t know, have not yet done this type of extension)

Now go back to the form TM.7 and look at the bottom of page 1, where there is the field “Reason(s) for extension”. What do your write here? There’s plenty of space here, so write enough to make it clear in what capacity you apply. For my application, I plan to write “To live with my Thai child, in accordance with paragraph 7.17, clause 5 of the Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters No. 606/2549”. (Note that here I use the title as used in the English translation on the website of the Immigration Bureau. When dealing with government offices, use their own language, in order to avoid confusion)

---------------

Maestro

Hi,

Many many thanks to you and Sunbelt for this. hopefully no more sleepless nights worrying about this and I'll be able to stay with my family.

cheers

Over fifty, if father of a Thai child as I understand it.

Sunbelt ?

Correct based on 7.17 (5) of the National Police Office Order No. 606/2006

If married with Thai child, then you should not apply under 7.17 (6), if you are over 50 years old.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

hi,

am wondering if this would apply to my situation. I'm 51 and supporting a Thai defacto and our child. I got a single entry 3 month non O from Penang for the first time which will expire on the 20th of next month. any chance I could get an extension without having to prove an income of 40k or more or to have 400k in the bank? much appreciated if you could provide some info on this.

thanks Nawtilus. good to know that I could leave the country with my daughter with an Oz passport, but I'm still unsure if I would have any legal rights to her whether here or in Oz. the mother is in it for the money and is squeezing it out of me continously using our daughter as emotional blackmail. seems like a no win situation. got a quote from a lawyer about the registration process. he wants 160,000 baht. absolute daylight robbery. I just don't have that kind of money. even so, there's no guarantee that it'll be approved if the mother refuses to co-operate. the other option is to marry the mother, but she wants a dowry and a party at her village in Isan. that's going to cost a fortune, too. I've already given her family huge sums of money. it just doesn't stop and I'm just wondering..even if we did get married...because the child was born before we were married...would that mean that I'm still not the legal father and would have to go through some other costly legal process? is it possible for you to send me the contact details of the lawyer you mentioned that could do it for around 30 to 50k? cheers and thanks again for your support.

Your posts does not say married or not, if you are not married, then it is as i said above. If you are married, then you do not have to go through this and being on the birth certificate is enough alone.

thanks for the info everyone. must admit..it's making me hate this place even more..sounds like another scam to squeeze money out of farangs. i mean, really...I am the dad of this child and what right do these..f...kers have in telling me if I am or I'm not. sorry...I just can't see the logic in this other than just a rip off excuse. I guess I don't get much of a choice here. any chance you could give me contact details of a lawer who can help me with this? would be much appreciated. just another thing you said. could they actually refuse you rights to your own child? if so, on what grounds? I'm not rich...I don't have a work permit...I have a non-O visa which is only good until the 20th of Dec. then..I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I know you need to show an income of over 40,000 a month, but it's a catch 22 situation...40,000 and above is what I earn but I can't declare it because I don't have a work permit. working on getting one...will probably qualify to get one in about 2 or 3 months when I complete my online Tefl cert. just one more question....I managed to get my daughter Australian citizenship....would it be possible to get her out of the country if I had the mother's consent?

hi,

I have a 6 months old daughter and I was told that unless I get myself registered as the natural father, I am legally not the dad. does anyone know how I could get this done or have a good lawer you can recommend to handle it?

thanks

Len

So i cant get a visa extension until i get a job then ??

Your wife can work as well in order for you to get the extension of stay based on marriage.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

just one question regarding work permits. I already have a 3 month Non-O visa but to extend it as i understand, you need to have an income of 40,000 or more per month. what if I'm working part-time and I'm earning that amount, but working without a work permit, will that be a problem?

Without wanting to appear like a complete idiot, can I just ask if it is possible to extend a non-immigrant O whilst in Thailand? All the ingotmation I have got so far (from the Thai consulate in Hull UK, and from immigration in BKK) has said that I will need to go outside of Thailand to get one (possibly even back to the UK). What is the best/easiest way to get a new O or extend a current one? What hoops would I have to jump through?

It is possible to extend a non-immigrant O whilst in Thailand, all you need is 400,000 baht, wedding cert, and proof of address and fill in lots of forms at the immigration.... much easier to get an extention or new visa outside Thailand... Penang is where I got mine a couple of weeks ago....

Also possible to get a work permit whilst holding a non immigrant o visa

Not true for new applicatns as the 400k is no longer an option. The new requirement is family income of 40k per month.

Really need to get some solid information on this. I'm supporting my daughter and her mother and I don't have the 400k in the bank which is what is required as far as I know to extend the 3 month non O visa I got from Penang a month ago. You're saying that you don't need to have this 400k anymore and that you just need to prove that you're earning more than 40k a month? Either way I'm still in a fix. I'm earning just over 50K a month, but declaring it is just going to get me a visa to the lockup. I work for three very reputable schools on a part-time basis and just to let you know how reputable they are, non of them are prepared to give me a work permit. It's a dead end street and I might have to head back home with my daughter and hopefully..mum too.

hi,

I managed to get a non-immigrant O visa from Penang without needing to have the 400,000 in a Thai bank. I gave them my Australian bank account statement which showed withdrawals made in Thailand over the past three months and a balance of only about 130,000 baht. I'm just wondering if it's going to be difficult getting the extension? Will I need to show them my bank statements again and could I get away with having around the same balance in the account which will be topped up on a regular basis from a source in Australia as I make the withdrawals here as I have before? Am supporting my 5 months old daughter and her mum. Really hope it's not going to be a hassel or an impossibility getting this extension. Any knowledge on this would be much appreciated.

Thanks

hi,

am wondering how this is going to affect getting the triple entry tourist visa in Penang?

will be going there next Wednesday to try and get one of these. already have two one month stamps in my passport from a Cambodian border.

thanks

are YOU suggesting that in some cases 400,000 is not needed in the bank?

There is this Malaysian man in Penang whom I know from business. Married to a Thai lady living in Hat Yai. He visits her most weekends, and two or three times a year several weeks at a time.

I called him this morning and he says he got his last multiple-entry non-O visa from the Thai consulate in Penang in February of this year and had to show now money and no Thai bank book with money in it.

--------------

Maestro

Good to know that. It confirms what I was told when I rang the Penang embassy. I asked if I could obtain an O visa not being married and if the 400,000 was needed. All he said was that your application would need to be considered. It might be worth a try. The most they could say is no...at least I'll be able to get a 3 month multiple entry tourist visa. Also rang Singapore..if you're not married, it's a definate no..no.

cheers

Len

Sorry Lenn, but your info is wrong. I returned from Penang on Thursday with my 12 month non imm' 'O' visa, based on having a Thai baby - I'm not married.

Sunbelt Asia will confirm that it's possible,

Cheers,

geoffphuket

Actually, I have no reason to doubt you or Sunbelt. got this bit of info from a Thai chap and I had a feeling he didn't really know what he was talking about and was saying something just for the sake of not loosing face.

about the 400,000...I might be able to borrow that. will I be able to draw that out as soon as I get the visa?

cheers again

Len

would like to say thanks to everyone for sharing your knowledge and experience on this. it's been really helpful.

just got back from a visa run an hour ago and found out something new. aparently if you have a child, but you're not married, it's impossible to get an O visa anywhere except from your home country. I don't know if you still have to have 400,000 when applying for it back home.

am going to try to find out about KL and Singapore. will keep you posted.

cheers

Len

hi,

been getting lots of conflicting thoughts about this and would really like to know if this is possible. I have a 3 and a half month old baby and a de facto. been in Thailand for nearly 6 and a half years. had a work permit until the 30 of June this year. lost my job at an international school...am teaching English part-time now...got very little money...on a tourist visa and I've got a family to support. I guess the shit has hit the fan. please, I don't need any smart arse comments...if you have an opinion, keep it to yourself. i need some facts. can you get a non immigrant O visa without having 400,000 in the bank? if so, how?

help much appreciated

thanks

len

hi,

I'm thinking about starting up a little music studio, providing instrumental lessons to children and adults. Just wondering if it would be possible to have the business in my partner's name? I don't have the 2 million capitalisation to do it myself. Knew a guy who had an internet cafe in his partner's name. It was all legal but the farang wasn't allowed to work. He was in it just as an investor, owning 49%. Any info on this would be much appreciated.

cheers

Hi,

Just wondering if they'll give you this visa if you say that you're supporting your wife? I actually am supporting her but I'm going to be out of a job in 7 months and will no longer hold a work permit.

cheers