inbangkok

Dr. Jeffry Life ? If so, the cost of the hormones at a clinic like his are far out of reach for the vast majority of people. We are talking 6-7 thousand dollars a year. Also, genetics plays a huge role in looking like that at 74. Not everyone can do it.----inbangkok

Yes inbankok & I am not in anyway suggesting that anyone (I certainly don't) join up or pay the over the top prices that they charge---- but the info is good, the E-mag is free (although they are pushing their product in it) ----anything they have can be purchased somewhere else cheaper.

Sure genetics play a role---"Not everyone can do it." -----no not everyone has the time comitment etc to do it----however I think that every one can improve on what they have at the moment----but if you want to have a look at what he looked like when he was 10 years younger........

http://www.motleyhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Jeffry-Life.jpg

Once again as inbangkok has stated....his products are way over priced---dont buy from them----however its good to see what is being taken, then source it.

Its not just his clinic. From my understanding, $500 a month for HGH is pretty standard in the USA and it is not possible to get it covered by insurance unless you have an actual deficiency.

I agree, everyone can look better, but genetics play a huge role. I could go on the exact same diet, training, sleep, and drug regimen a professional body builder uses, but I will never end up looking like they do. Its not just about commitment. Obviously it takes a lot of time and effort, but different people have different genetic maximums they can achieve (even with drugs).

While we do have anti aging clinics, they are insanely expensive and therefore quite exclusive. There is absolutely no standard Dr. in the USA prescribing Testosterone to a 30 year old because he want to be bigger, stronger, etc. The DEA keeps a very close eye on these prescriptions and many Dr.s don't want to deal with it. Remember, Testosterone and other steroids are completely illegal in the USA without a prescription. Even in the UK, there is no law against possession of steroids for personal use. Testosterone and other steroids have a very negative stigma attached to them in the USA. Not nearly as many men are utilizing TRT as you may think.

In Europe we don't have antiaging clinics and endos are very reluctant to prescribe Testo.

About laws in US I guess any State got different rules. In California is very easy to find Endos willing to prescribe both Testo and Growth. I was in LA last year, and I saw it with my own eyes.

You just need a blood sample proving your test level is under the norm and no problem at all.

You go to any doctor in Europe with your "less than zero" testo level and he will start talking about zinc , tribulus , and stop exercise.

No, medication is not regulated by state. Testosterone is a Schedule 3 drug. The feds schedule medication, not states. If your blood levels show you have low T, you don't need an anti aging clinic as a general Dr. will generally prescribe it for you. What we were talking about was the idea of Dr.s prescribing it to young and healthy guys because they want to have bigger muscles and better sex......most Dr.s will not do this despite what you have heard. Obviously some at anti aging clinics might if you pay for it.

Growth hormone is roughly $500 a month in the US. Not many people can afford this.

LONG TERM Testosterone Therapy Safety Reaffirmed---PUBLIC RELEASE DATE: 25-Nov-2014

New study in The Journal of Urology analyzed results from three independent registries, 17 years with a median follow-up of approximately 5 years

Although there is no evidence that T therapy increases the risk of prostate cancer (PCa), there were still concerns and a paucity of long-term data. In a new study in The Journal of Urology®, investigators examined three parallel, prospective, ongoing, cumulative registry studies of over 1,000 men. Their analysis showed that long-term T therapy in hypogonadal men is safe and does not increase the risk of PCa.

This report will be released next week, but link to the full report below.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-11/ehs-ltt112514.php

The above that was posted here some time ago-is well worth the read, done in Germany it is the first/only long term Testosterone study-17 years, and as printed there .----quote

Their analysis showed that long-term T therapy in hypogonadal men is safe and does not increase the risk of PCa.

I am nearly 70 & have been taking it on & off for over 16 years-----below is an American Doctor who works for the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M)--and who obviously recommends what he takes ---Testo

It not photo shopped I have met him at an anti ageing seminar in Oz---but it should be pointed out, you wont get a physique like that just by injecting oneself---it takes a lot of hard work also, but at least you will have more energy .

PS they wont let me post Photo....shows him from the age of 57------ fat ....to age of 74-----fit

Dr. Jeffry Life ?

If so, the cost of the hormones at a clinic like his are far out of reach for the vast majority of people. We are talking 6-7 thousand dollars a year. Also, genetics plays a huge role in looking like that at 74. Not everyone can do it.

another quick Q:

Needle sizes - 24-maybe even 30 gauge 1" for subQ or 1 1/2" 24 gauge for Intramuscular? (also - maybe 18 Gauge for drawing from vial,)

Syringe sizes for 1/2 ml and 1 ml of T - I would have thought use larger by a factor of at least 4 i.e. 2ml and 4ml respectively? ( as the dose would be 1/4 of the barrel therfore easier to press the plunger a shorter distance.?)

Also location/contact details at Bumrungrad for full blood panel would be helpful.

TIA

22 or 23 gauge needles, 1 inch in length are fine for glute injections if you are not overweight or carrying too much fat in that area. 3ml syringes are fine. I only inject in my glutes so I cannot comment on other areas.

Be prepared to pay an obscene price at Bumrungrad. I use the hospital frequently, but never for simple blood tests like this.

We don't really use Test Enanthate in the US. However, that has nothing to do with the weekly injection protocol. When knowledgeable Drs in the US do prescribe Test Enanthate, it is still on a weekly basis.

The reason why in US dosages are quite higher than Europe/UK and antiaging therapy is more popular, is because american society is more competitve than european. In Europe the socialist governments want everybody weak and submissive hoping for a government job...(of course this my very arguable opinion).

Antiaging therapy was born in US , recently it has spread in Europe. In US endos begin to prescribe testo to 30 years old men looking to be stronger, bigger and sexually active . No way you will find and endochrinologist in Europe/UK willing to prescribe Testosterone to a 30 years old guy unless he has some serious hormonal disease (hypogonadism, etc.etc.).

While we do have anti aging clinics, they are insanely expensive and therefore quite exclusive. There is absolutely no standard Dr. in the USA prescribing Testosterone to a 30 year old because he want to be bigger, stronger, etc. The DEA keeps a very close eye on these prescriptions and many Dr.s don't want to deal with it. Remember, Testosterone and other steroids are completely illegal in the USA without a prescription. Even in the UK, there is no law against possession of steroids for personal use. Testosterone and other steroids have a very negative stigma attached to them in the USA. Not nearly as many men are utilizing TRT as you may think.

I was talking about Bangkok clinics, here all the samples go to the lab i mentioned. I did not know this at first and I went all the way to that lab to do tests. They told me that they collect all the samples from all the labs around BKK and test them in the lab. So later I just went to a clinic near my home for testing. I assume that they keep the blood cool. But your right there is always a risk especially in Thailand that rules are not followed. But as this is one lab that services loads of clinics I assume (could be wrong) that they have set up a special service for that too.

Well, I might have no idea about blood test in Pattaya clinics but certainly you are not very informed about managing blood and blood product transfer.

Any blood sample that is exposed to temperatures outside refrigeration specifications (7-8 degrees) for longer than 30 minutes will alter the parameters.That's the reason why I was suggestion the gentlemen here to do their hormonal samples in hospytals having qualified lab test or at least a trusted transport service with special vehicles equipped with very expensive cold storage compartments (wich I doubt Pattaya clinics have), able to transfer blood without altering hormonal parameters.

The water ritention I'm talking about is not related to high estrogen...It could be a cause but not the only one. Testosterone, like all the anabolic steroids, increases the amount of nitrogen , sodium and water stored in body tissues . This is one of the main cause of Hypertension and eventually stroke.

....And finally.....Testosterone enanthate has half life of 7 days ? I thought it was 2 weeks.....

Now I understand why arimidex and other smilar stuff are involved in this topic.

The water retention I was talking about was based on the estrogen and yes that is the reason why people talk about arimidex so you don't hold extra water. But as you also pointed out too low estrogen is bad too, that is why tests are needed as you correctly pointed out we don't all respond the same to medicine. Though most people who are on a dose lower as 250 mg of test a week do ok on 1/4 a tablet of arimidex every day.

I read the half-life was 7-9 days still long, there are other versions like propionate that has a half life of 2-3 days.. but that is too short if you only want to inject once a week.

Anyway anyone on HRT should really read up about it and know what they are getting into and they should do blood tests.

Thank you for telling me about the nitrogen, I did not know that. I thought all water retention from steroids was estrogen based.

I do know that I test my blood pressure too especially when I am taking creatine too because too much water retention is bad for you for the reasons you mentioned before.

I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about Pattaya Clinics....Since you are in Bangkok situation is different of course.

I did testosterone test in Bumrungrand several times....Never been disappointed...All the time I was on testo, blood test shows low FSH and LH ( temporary testicle shut down) and medium/high free testosterone levels. So my conclusion is that Bumrungrand lab is quite accurate and true.

The enanthate (testoviron 250) seems to be more popular in Europe , prescription dosage is 250 mg. every 3 or 4 weeks. In America testosterone cypionate is mostly used instead with a prescription dosage of 200 mg. a week or 10 days . It seems that cypionate has a shorter half-life than enanthate (not like propionate anyway).

In Thailand the Bayer-Shering group has factories so it's easy to find real enanthate in any pharmacy here while propionate and cypionate are both made by T P Drug (Cypionax - Testolic) wich is a legit company from Bangkok .

About high blood pressure I had the same problem and I strongly suggest you to control your b.p. daily. Try to avoid salt as much as you can, drink a lot of water and increase your cardio wich I believe still remains the best way to decrease HBP. (together with a ACE inihibitor therapy).

Another important blood test that anyone on HRT should do is hematocrit (HCT) and Hemoglobin.

One of the side effect of any hormone (Testo included) is the increase in red blood cells leading to thicken the blood.. The more viscous the blood, the harder the heart must work to move it around...This is a very dangerous issue....HRT and Hemoglobin are part of CBC Complete blood count , very cheap test that any good clinic can do .

Cheers.

We don't really use Test Enanthate in the US. However, that has nothing to do with the weekly injection protocol. When knowledgeable Drs in the US do prescribe Test Enanthate, it is still on a weekly basis.

Quick Q for those who inject: Once an an ampoule is opened you can't use half and keep half - even in the fridge? i.e not sterile. I think I know the answer to this. it seems there are bottles (10ml?) that are designed for multiple shots taken from it but don't know if have here.

Was thinking of 2x SubQ/week using Testoviron Depot injectable steroid: amp per unit (250 mg/ml). BUT each dose is half ampoule.

Reason for wanting 2x SubQ of 1/2 250mg is to avoid overshoot as It seems it is overshoot above normal range that causes high estradiol conversion (also want stable levels). My concern here is prostate enlargement, which it seems estradiol plays a part in far more than DHT as is the classic theory. Also if can reduce estradiol conversion less of other sides maybe. Aramidex, SERM such as clomiphene and also Mesterolone are options to control I know.

You cannot keep the open vial in the fridge. That will become contaminated very quickly. What you can do is draw the remaining amount into another syringe and cap it with a new needle and use it later. In other words, just fill both of your syringes at once and use ones at a later time. Many people do this. It should be fine, as many medications even come pre-loaded in syringes.

It might be helpful if anyone knows a good Dr in Thailand who specializes in weekly TRT therapy (not this every 2-6 week nonsense) . It appears that the vast majority of Dr's here are not super knowledge about this area of Medicine. I have also had two Dr's inform me that TRT is still pretty uncommon in Thailand, thus the reason why even endocrinologists and urologists don't seem to be super knowledgeable about it.

You guys more know then I do all the tests you mention I get. But, in the USA.

Another one my Doc. told me to get is the PSA test. I guess your PSA can rise with T therapy.

Yeah, that is arguably the most important. T therapy actually wont increase it though.......the concern is that if your PSA in increasing due to prostate cancer, testosterone can speed the growth of the cancer. Any good Dr. will always check PSA before prescribing testosterone, and from my understanding, best to check every 6 months after that. If PSA begins to rise, you would have to rule out cancer of any type in order to continue.

There is no roller coaster of T levels if you inject once a week. Only if you attempt to get by on one shot every 2-4 weeks which seems common practice here.

Estrogen can be dealt with by 1 or 2mg of arimidex per week. High estrogen while on TRT is super common.

Once a week is definetely too much for me, I've tried, my estrogen levels go too high and I got gyno .

In my opinion vials suppress the axis much more than gel or capsules, that the reason why so many endos suggest to integrate Testo shots with HCG + Anti estrogens + DHEA + Androstenedione, etc.etc.

I'm ok with gel and/or capsules. I don't want use all these stuffs... Arimidex is dangerous, it can decrease your estrogen over the limit (very low estrogen = no libido) , it's very expensive and finally, when you're on TRT , the less you take the better it is....

Here's some interesting publications by one of the best TRT specialist , Dr. John Crisler.

http://www.drdach.com/John_Crisler_on__HCG.html

Anyway inbangkok, what really matters at the end is how you feel...If you're ok with vials therapy , keep doing it , we all react to drugs differently.

As mentioned above, the switch to gel has nothing to do with your estrogen being lower. The gel is nowhere near as effective as injections. So someone using gel is not getting as much testosterone (and not a steady level) , thus not having as much testosterone to convert to estrogen. If you use enough gel, where you are at the equivalent of the injection, you will have the same estrogen and gyno effects.

I don't know what you mean that one shot per week is too much. If that's the case, you can easily lower the dose. TRT doses. Generally range from 50mg-250mg per week. I am assuming you mean you were using the full 250mg per week.

In my opinion the best testosterone choice for antiging therapy is gel . It is more manageable than vials. When you use injections you might experience the "roller coaster" syndrome, wich means your test.level goes up and down, plus it wil shrink your testicles badly.

In my case, injections increase estrogen badly , not happen with gel or capsules (Andriol).

Gel in Thailand is available in Hospytal with prescription and it's quite expensive, while Andriol capsules is on every pharmacy .

Some pharmacies sell kind of underground Testosterone gel . I strongly suggest not to use it. It's fake , while vials (like Testoviron, or Testolic, etc.) are real.

So, if you go for vials or capsules (Andriol) you don't need to go to the Hospytal, you can get to pharmacy , I suggest real brand like Testoviron 250 from Bayer Shering or Sustanon , while if you need gel , you need to go to Hospytal. I hope soon Testosterone gel will be avaialable in pharmacies as well.

There is no roller coaster of T levels if you inject once a week. Only if you attempt to get by on one shot every 2-4 weeks which seems common practice here.

Estrogen can be dealt with by 1 or 2mg of arimidex per week. High estrogen while on TRT is super common.

You may have stopped smoking but you still appear to have the smokers head in the sand atttude. As for knowing about it, I watched my wife for a year die with lung cancer, so please don't say I know nothing about it!

Do you know if she'd quit smoking 3 years prior to her death it would have changed the outcome? Of course you don't know, any more than you know if my quitting has been a benefit or not.

Um, yeah..... I am no Dr but I am willing to go out on a limb here and claim that you quitting smoking has absolutely, 100 percent benefited your health. Not like I need to be a Dr though to make such an obvious claim though .......

Internet quality is location dependent in Thailand. You should definitely ask your neighbors what they are using and how it works.

buying at the hospital will knock your socks off price wise.

i have run in to some hospitals not stocking nebido and it has to be special ordered.

last i purchased was 6500baht, not at hospital. so. east

last purchase at hospital was 11,000.00baht, special order, plus doctor fee.

i use dr. donna to do injection, very reasonable and english speaking doctor.

Why not just do a weekly injection of Testosterone Enanthate? Is is a mere fraction of the price and will keep Testosterone levels consistent. A 250mg amp of Test Enanthate is only around 150 baht.

It's not about money for me.

It has to be injected every (about) 3 months, so that's one of the benefits.

Have you by chance had your T levels checked a few times over the 3 month period? I would be very interested to know how much variation the T levels go through over 12 weeks with only one shot.

Quick Q for those doing TRT - do you notice any real i.e near 'magic bullet' improvement with mental issues such as:

Brain fog, Decreased energy, motivation, initiative, aggressiveness, self-confidence/ambition, Poor concentration and memory, Feeling sad or blue, depressed mood, dysthymia.

As much detail of any improvement (subjective as it may be) would be much appreciated.

These mental issues are the ones really getting to (flooring) me. Libido and hydraulic lifting capability improved to Ok again levels with Mesterolone and Clomiphene but I am really affected by the above to the point I may have to overcome my resistance to T injections and concern with shutting down own T (yes, I know it can be restarted with HCG).

I know that if I start this I have to give it a year - 6 months not long enough and really would want to be 6 months in before T levels natural crash Nov-Apr.

Not really interested in diet exercise solutions as doing all that anyway.

It was as close to a magic bullet for me as one can get. I had more energy, began sleeping less (better quality sleep), and motivation absolutely improved. Self confidence improved as I started rapidly losing excess body fat (with cardio and heavy workouts).

Why are you resistant to T injections? Because you think you will go sterile? Highly unlikely on TRT doses. IFBB Pro bodybuilders who abused the hell out of steroids still had kids after retirement. Have you had your T levels checked? You know they are low? If so, TRT is really the only realistic solution if you are already exercising, eating well, and not obese. I am sure some of the natural nuts will be along soon trying to convince you how magic supplement powder and a liver cleanse will raise your T levels, but us reasonable folks know better.........

You need to know how to monitor things such as your estrogen levels though because the Dr.s here have no clue about these things. Most Dr.s here still don't even prescribe TRT on a weekly dose schedule which is imperative for successful results (not the one shot every 3-4 weeks that seems to be the standard here).

buying at the hospital will knock your socks off price wise.

i have run in to some hospitals not stocking nebido and it has to be special ordered.

last i purchased was 6500baht, not at hospital. so. east

last purchase at hospital was 11,000.00baht, special order, plus doctor fee.

i use dr. donna to do injection, very reasonable and english speaking doctor.

Why not just do a weekly injection of Testosterone Enanthate? Is is a mere fraction of the price and will keep Testosterone levels consistent. A 250mg amp of Test Enanthate is only around 150 baht.

No one is going to take you from BKK to Ayutthaya for 500 baht.....

sukhumvit rd and soi 15, bkk. east pharmacy has nebido.

Thanks, How to know if it's from Bayer company and not fake?

I have never heard of Neibo being faked. There is no black market value for it. No bodybuilders use the stuff.

If you don't have a good feeling about the Dr, find a new one.... Bottom line. I usually have good luck with Dr's here but recently met with one I found to be pretty incompetent and uninterested. He also charged and absurd consultation fee. I will never go back to him again.

I thought you were supposed to be able to submit 90 day reports by mail anyway. Not this office?

BKK Post is reporting that four of them are the sons of police officers. Hmm, wonder how this one is gonna' end........

Thailand is experiencing a moral crisis at the moment. It is not a crisis of outsiders destroying their culture, not Western influence, not drugs.........It is a crisis of a society where people are capable of behaving with near impunity on virtually all levels of society. A culture where so few take personal responsibility, few ever dare to apologize for a mistake (unless paraded in front of cameras), and where men are not taught how to behave like men. Simply put, Thailand needs to make a very serious (and quick) decision regarding the future of the nation. Will people be able to continually behave like animals with no consequences? Or will Thailand begin enforcing the notion of personal responsibility and forcing those to commit wrong doings to pay a heavy price? I am not so confident in the countries future.......

I have seen it for 3,000 baht per 4ml amp if memory serves correct. It should be available at many of the pharmacies on Sukhumvit. However, Testoviron (Testosterone Enanthate) can be purchased for about 150 baht per 250mg amp and is a far superior delivery system to keep Testosterone levels stable. But obviously you will nee to inject more often than once every 3 months.

You failed to mention how old these girls are working as pharmacists and such that you have shown interest in. Despite what you may have been led to believe, a 25 year old pharmacist is most likely not interested in a 42 year old man (Thai or foreigner). If it is a girl half your age that you are looking for, prepare to pay up.... Or get very lucky.....

Iherb is a good source for supplements.

Do you have any trouble receiving them in Thailand? I've heard stories of people ordering things from overseas and having them held for fees or other charges by customs or delivery services.

Nope. Sometimes I have to pay the mailman 7 baht..... Don't know why.

I hate to have to keep saying it.......but another group of FEMINIZED Thai men stomping and kicking the head of someone who is already on the ground. People like this deserve death.