fbf

Thank you very much for the forum, I have found it valuable over the years. However I no longer need my account on here and find that I cannot delete it.

I understand that you might not want to delete accounts and all their posts because it leaves gaps in the discussions. As I have not published any personal information, I am fine for my posts to remain.

However, you are holding my personal information in your database and I would like for this to be removed. Can you please remove my email address and replace it with your own, or with a dummy one such as "<anything>@example.com" (this domain is reserved for testing so will not result in accidentally sending email to someone else).

As I am based in the UK and this forum is (I think) based in Hong Kong, I don't expect UK privacy laws to apply, so I am relying on your good will. Again, thanks for providing the forums, it is a great resource.

On 8/6/2020 at 11:44 AM, 7by7 said:

My opinion is that she should apply for her ILR asap, which is about now, and plan your visit for after she has received it. Even if it does take the full 6 months to process, she should have it by mid January, which will leave you plenty of time to arrange a trip to Thailand for Songkran.

 

Assuming the pandemic has cleared enough for Thailand to reopen it's borders to visitors from the UK by then!

 

 

Thanks 7by7 that's a lot of clear and helpful advice.

We still have to factor in that it's not going to be possible in our situation to travel to Thailand for a while owing to the Zika virus, but that's just a decision we'll have to weigh up. It might be that we have to switch things around and have the family visit here (post-Covid) - which is going to create its own "fun" from a visa point of view and practical as the in-laws are separated and both self-employed in a small village.

As for Thailand reopening its borders, I'm of the understanding that I can still travel as the spouse of a Thai national provided that I follow the guidance here. That is, when flights resume. Emirates are offering flights from 30th August onwards, but it seems likely this is speculative and that they'll just cancel and refund/rebook if they can't start flying by then. 

Again, really helpful advice. Doesn't make it less tough, but does make it more clear. ???? 

11 hours ago, torturedsole said:

So do all these issues fall away if you don't travel abroad, fbf?  My Thai wife and I are also rebooked from a May 2020 trip and have rebooked for late November 2020, but I doubt we'll be able to go without quarantine and will have to push out to mid-2021.  

In our circumstances, we would need to wait until at least 2022 and it could easily end up being 2023. I wouldn't even be sharing sensitive health information under my real name, but it doesn't take a genius to work out that if a couple is having fertility treatment, and if the treatment cannot start until six months after traveling to a country listed as having a risk of Zika virus then, it's going to take a while to go through the treatment, whether successful or not.

Sure, not traveling is an option, it's not life or death. But I'm willing to trade money and effort/hassle in exchange for the possibility of a trip to Thailand so that my wife doesn't end up going such a long time without seeing her family. If your situation is different then hopefully the trade-offs involved for you are less severe.

Although I posted all the above for context, I'm more interested in practical information that will help me make more informed choices.

On 8/3/2020 at 4:16 PM, Max69xl said:

Quite a large part of the world where people go as a tourist,but as far as I know, authorities in Thailand are talking more about Dengue-fever than the Zika-virus at the moment. 

Thanks, but the only thing that matters is the guidance that NHS trusts and private fertility clinics follow.

On the subject of visa applications, I am still not sure if it's possible to submit a non-priority ILR application before the applicant has been in the UK for less than five years.

Possible, not possible, possible provided the biometrics appointment is after the five-year mark?

I presume you mean 2021, but yes depending on personal circumstances waiting is going to be the best option for a lot of people, and we too will have to consider that.

An added complication is that we're expecting to start fertility treatment next year and they won't do it for 6 months after we've travelled to a country that has a risk of the Zika virus, which currently includes Thailand. If we go in December it'll probably delay the treatment by a couple of months, e.g. from April to June. If we go next April, that pushes back to October - and we already pushed back because of Covid.

My wife isn't happy about the idea of what could turn out to be a 4 year gap between visits to Thailand (and to be fair, I miss it too!)

My wife's FLR expires in mid December and she's eligible for ILR in mid September.

If we travel to Thailand together in November, will she have any issues in re-entering the UK with her BRP? Especially if there are delays and she ends up arriving a week before her FLR expires.

Some background:

We were already overdue a trip to Thailand when the COVID-19 pandemic hit, and pushed back our May 2020 trip to this Christmas. I was relying on the Super Priority service and paying the extra £800 to ensure that her September application was processed well in time for December. Unfortunately, Super Priority has been withdrawn and the Coronavirus Immigration Helpline just gave me a stock response saying "These services will continue to be paused for now." They did not answer my second question, which is whether my wife would be able to switch an existing application to Super Priority if it were already in progress.

I'm fairly sure we cannot travel outside the CTA after the application has been submitted on the slow track, which could possibly even go beyond the six months (hard to be sure). This is based on searching online and finding immigration lawyers talking about section 34K of the immigration rules. Assuming my wife gets her passport and BRP back (I think that's how it works now but we haven't tried it), she'd still be deemed to have cancelled her application if she leaves the CTA.

So we considered our options:

1. Get the application in ASAP on the slow track, hope (but don't assume) it'll be done in time for Songkran. For various personal reasons we really don't want to leave it this late.

2. Move our booking forward to early November, aiming to return to the UK around 3 weeks before her FLR expires, allowing for a bit of a delay and submitting the ILR application.

3. Leave things as is, hope Super Priority returns by mid November and that we can keep our current Christmas trip in place; but if not, we've delayed starting the "six month" application by a further couple of months.

I've written to my MP asking that 34K be suspended for as long as Super Priority is suspended. I have no expectations this will help, but wanted to make my opinion known anyway.

All of the above assumes that we're willing to go through the cost and hassle of 2 week's quarantine in Thailand, leaving a week or two for seeing family (not exactly the holiday of a lifetime then!) and that we can quarantine when we get home (no problem for me, manageable for my wife). 

If we go with option 1, can we do the application 28 days before my wife becomes eligible for ILR? (The form asks how long you've been in the UK, so she'd have to answer 4 years and 11 months).

If we go with option 2, how much hassle are we likely to get at the border when returning to the UK?

TIA!

I've just signed the petition.

I already pay over £35k/year income tax/NI, plus have private health insurance for myself and my wife (who also pays income tax and NI, doing a job that's under-subscribed).

For me the charges are annoying, but I realise there are families who can just about manage to pay their way if they're not hit with these enormous visa and NHS charges. I'm surprised they haven't raised the minimum income requirements to factor in the high cost of immigration, which must be averaging over £1,000 year now for the five year period. That's a big chunk of the c. £16,000 net salary of someone who just meets the minimum requirements.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, the NHS part of the charge does seem related to a real cost to the state and benefit to the migrant (albeit without solving the double charging issue, or triple charging for anyone with private cover). The bigger issue is the outlandish visa/FLR/ILR processing fees. If they charged £400 for NHS but halved the cost of the main fee, it wouldn't be so bad overall IMHO.

It looks to me like you applied too early, and that the FLR application when granted didn't add onto the end of the initial leave to enter.

As others mentioned above, the time your wife was in the UK is significant for ILR - it must add up to 60 months. Because it took 1 month for her to enter the UK but you applied for FLR near the very start of the overlap, the time in the UK didn't quite add up to the total months covered by the visa applications.

Leave to enter: 2nd November 2012 - 2nd August 2015 (2 years, 9 months)

Actual entry: 3rd December 2012

Further Leave to Remain: 7th May 2015 to 5th December 2017 (2 years, 6 months, minus 2 days*)

(* not sure why, maybe application date was 5th May 2015? probably immaterial)

Did your wife submit her ILR application before 3rd December 2017? If so, I think that would be the problem - 60 months didn't elapse since your wife entered the UK. Had it been submitted on 4th or 5th December I suspect it might have been approved - but I'm not 100% sure here. If so, then ideally the FLR application would have been submitted a bit closer to 2nd August 2015 to give more leeway in December 2017.

As far as I can find out, the time outside of the UK isn't necessarily a problem - the latest evidence I can find is here: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/absence_from_uk_on_spouse_visa. I don't think the days outside the UK are counted in the 60 months; part of normal life in the UK is the occasional trip abroad.

Yes it is confusing, and I really hope you're right. However, I can't easily ignore the text on this page:

Quote

When you can apply to extend or switch

The earliest you can apply is 28 days before your current permission (called ‘leave to remain’) expires. Any time you have left will be added to your new permission to stay, up to a maximum of 28 days.

The only other official guidance I can find is on this page; open up the PDF "Form FLR(M) guidance notes" and within that document it states:

Quote

You and any children under 18 should apply before the end of your/their permitted stay in the UK. We encourage you to apply 28 days before the expiry date.

Looking around online I've seen advice along the lines "30 months after arrival, minus 28 days". Your advice seems to be "30 months after arrival", which actually makes a lot more sense. The government advice seems to be that they don't want people to apply too early, with the main web page having a clear "28 days before expiry" rule and the guidance notes a more relaxed, erm, well not actually a rule even, more of a preference for applying 28 days before expiry.

For now I'm inclined to aim for "30 months after arrival in the UK" rather than "28 days before current permission expiry" (which is just over 32 months from arrival in my wife's case). This is the safest option given the 60 month requirement for ILR - presumably the worst that can happen is they won't accept the application if this 28 days quote turns out to be a new rule. I'll probably be using the same-day service so will try a few weeks before that anyway, looking for an appointment on (or just after) the 30 month mark.

Given that online applications are now available, perhaps the easiest answer will be to sign into that and see what it allows. Has anyone tried this yet?

On 19/10/2017 at 6:53 PM, 7by7 said:

As said, she can apply once she has lived in the UK for at least 30 months, 30 months from March 2015 is, by my reckoning, September 2017.

 

So, if I've done my sums right, yes, she can apply now, and must apply before her current visa expires in December.

My wife is in a similar situation and I must admit to still being confused by the dates here. She arrived in the UK in mid September 2015 and her Biometric Residence Permit (BRP) is valid until mid June 2018 - exactly 33 months (possibly 33 months and 1 day including the start/end date).

On the first page of Family visas: apply, extend or switch it says:

Quote

The earliest you can apply is 28 days before your current permission (called ‘leave to remain’) expires. Any time you have left will be added to your new permission to stay, up to a maximum of 28 days.

As a result, I had plans to apply in the middle of May 2018, i.e. 28 days before the BRP expiry date. 

However, reading it again, page two seems to agree with your 30 months figure:

Quote

You’ll get permission to stay for 2.5 years, or for 6 months if you’re applying as a fiancé, fiancée or proposed civil partner.

After this you’ll need to apply to extend your stay.

Could it be that the expiry date on my wife's BRP is wrong? I dug out the letter of a successful visa application and it states exactly the same expiry date - 33 months in total (my wife landed at Gatwick about 7 hours after it became valid).

My guess is that either the above website is wrong (should be 2.75 years not 2.5) or that things have changed since September 2015. One other possibility though - my wife's permission dates were messed up.

I would like to do the FLR application as soon as possible. If the "28 days before 30 months" advice applies I'd be able to do it as early as February, but I have my doubts.

Incidentally, for calculating dates this comes in handy: Date Calculator: Add to or Subtract From a Date

I was thinking of taking my Thai wife with me on a brief business trip to Budapest. The nature of business trips being annoyingly last minute, now that it's confirmed there isn't time for the 15 clear working days suggested on the VFS Global site (see Processing Time tab for which there is no direct link).

It does however say that a spouse of a UK citizen can travel without a visa if their Biometric Residence Permit (BRP) shows the exact wording "Residence card of a family member of a union citizen". My wife's card has no such wording, although it does state "Spouse/partner leave to enter" under the "Type of permit heading".

Is there any chance that such a permit could be accepted without a visa? I don't mind risking a £150 flight, but I'm sure my wife would find it extremely horrible and upsetting if turned back. If anyone is able, and kind enough, to show strong evidence that it's ok (maybe travelled recently with a BRP similar to my wife's) then it might be worth risking it. Otherwise, I might just give up on this trip and look for a way to get a multi entry visa for future trips...

56 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

But you may find that some carriers will refuse to carry her without a visa, and there may be long delays once she gets there while the officials check the rules and her status; so it's advisable to get a visa in advance. 

 

Of course, that is the situation for UK nationals and their non EEA nationals family members at the moment; post Brexit, who knows!

Thanks for the advice 7by7. We always intended to get a visa, despite one of my colleagues reporting success without one. So far the hassle has tipped the balance against us bothering but we'll probably try it for a short trip to Budapest next month.

As for Brexit, I'm hoping my wife will get a British passport by early 2021 (she arrived in September 2015) so assuming Brexit happens on time in 2019 and the partners rights are dispensed with, we'd be looking at a gap of less than two years.

On 01/08/2017 at 2:24 PM, 7by7 said:

Postal applications usually take up to 8 weeks, I assume online is about the same. Unless you have extremely urgent reasons for needing your passport back the same day, I see no point in paying the extra £590, taking the time of work and travelling to your nearest PEO just to get a same day decision.

I am thinking of paying it next year; personal decision as I think your reasoning is sound.

The main reason is that I don't want to spend 8 weeks worrying. Assuming I'm on the right page, it says the earliest you can apply is 28 days before your current permission expires. That means for 4 weeks my wife will be staying in the UK beyond her original permission; I know this is allowed, I just don't like it. Also, a lot could happen in 8 weeks while they're holding her documents - e.g. family emergency in Thailand etc. Plus I do a lot of business trips (mostly 2-5 days in Europe) that tend come up at short notice and sometimes I might want to take my wife. Talking of which, I thought I'd have to give over my own passport for 8 weeks which would definitely interfere with my work, but it seems they only ask about the partners documents?

Small detail, our closest centre is Croydon which appears to have Saturday opening (and is also close to Wing Yip so we can stock up on Thai ingredients).

Anyway I'm probably in a more fortunate financial position than most, but I do agree it's horribly expensive, and unfair that most people will have little choice about being in this eight-week limbo trap.

On 2017-6-13 at 1:36 PM, 7by7 said:

There is no specified maximum time allowed out of the UK whilst qualifying for ILR.

Correct, but might be worth noting that this depends on the visa route to ILR. For the OP (and most of us here), it's going to be a partner of British citizen route with no maximum time outside of the UK specified. I did a double take reading the above because, by chance, this week someone on a Tier 2 work visa asked me about leaving the UK before his ILR application and there's a 180 day max absence requirement in that case. I assumed it was going to apply to my wife because I hadn't re-read the rules lately. Glad to see she won't be affected. There are so many different rules to watch out for!

Sorry if this is slightly off topic/a different situation, but does this have implications for using a B1 test pass to meet the new(ish) FLR A2 requirement?

In other words, does your advice discussed here still hold, or will they not allow use of the same B1 test result for ILR (assuming the requirement doesn't increase by then) because the B1 grade wasn't needed for the FLR application? 

Read carefully!! There is a difference between regular UK residence permits (issued to the partner of a UK national for instance) and the EU/EEA residence permit (issued to the spouse/partner of EU/EEA nationals residing in an other EU/EEA nation such as a German in de UK or a Brit in France):

"Please note that the UK Residence Permit must state that the holder is a family member of an EU/EEA National"

If that text is not on it (which it won't if you are a UK citizen with Thai partner living in the UK together) she does not have the required card.

Very good point, thanks. I just looked at her BRP and no mention of being a family member of an EU/EEA national, even though that does currently apply.

Well despite the fact that my neighbour is a pilot and has flown me over to Le Touquet, France, before, I think I'll take the easier route and get a visa. To be honest, I was surprised when I saw this message on the VFS site as it made things look so easy. I wonder if some people might get caught out by that.

Also sorry for bumping this topic, I'll start a new one if there are any specific questions with the visa application.

I'm looking into getting a visa for my Thai wife to join me in Spain. I will travel there a few times this year for work, and hope that she can join me for the weekend. As such, I'll already be there and she'll be arriving to join me.

In theory it looks like she won't need a visa:

http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LONDRES/en/Consulado/Pages/CheckPassport.aspx

http://www.vfsglobal.com/spain/uk/london/EEA_EU_Spouse.html

Both pages include this text:

Have things changed this year? Can she really just show up at the border with her BRP and point out that her husband is already here (not even necessarily at the airport as I'd probably pre-book at taxi for her).

My 12.45 UTH-BKK delayed by 30 mins due to late inbound. Not exactly a nightmare but I've usually found these flights very punctual.

Thanks, I guess it does make sense to aim high.

I've stayed near Asoke a few times. Taxi around 45 minutes, maybe 60 in traffic, costs around 400-450 Baht including tolls and airport charge. But the rail link/MRT won't save an awful lot of time unless the traffic is terrible. Depends on luggage and budget I guess.

Oh joy, I'm flying UTH-BKK tomorrow and BKK-DOH-LHR on Saturday. Should be "fun".

A2 is a grade on the CEFR; The Common European Framework of Reference for Languages.

However, the pass must have been awarded by a UKVI approved provider: see Approved secure English language tests and test centres.

At present, a pass which has been previously used in a successful application; e.g. the initial visa, can be used again in subsequent applications, FLR and ILR, even if the certificate has now expired or the provider is no longer on the approved list.

Provided it's at the required level, of course.

Hopefully that will continue.

Just came across this topic with the new A2 requirement. Given that the list of approved test providers has changed in the past, and new test requirements introduced, what's the best approach for taking tests? Always take the minimum test required, say around 6 months before it's needed, or aim higher if capable?

For example, my wife did her A1 speaking/listening a year ago, some months ahead of the initial settlement visa application. She passed with a distinction and could probably have passed the B1 speaking/listening too. Now she's been living in the UK for six months and studying an intensive English course at university, she could definitely pass B1 and maybe B2 (based on the exams she's doing at around the IELTS level 5).

So, she could get a B1 test "out of the way" next time around, use it for FLR and reuse for ILR when the time comes, but what are the chances of them changing the requirement four years from now? If there's no knowing what further changes are coming, I'd be tempted to suggest she continues the current course of only taking the test actually needed at the time - i.e. A2 for FLR, which would be nice and easy, although it's probably around an extra £150.

Just wondering what approach most people take here...

Thanks for the warning.

Heading there now for a domestic flight. If I see him in might be tempted to say I'll help but need to use the ATM, hoping to catch the attention of a police officer or official en route. Not sure they'd do anything though.

Something to watch out for but there's a *possibility* the freedom of movement for non-EU might be at risk as part of Britain's EU negotiations (not to mention the exit referendum itself).

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/16/immigration-loophole-for-foreign-born-spouses-could-close-under-draft-eu-rules

Sorry to muddy the waters but the above (with much speculation) was only published two hours ago and I'm writing this on the train pre-coffee.

However, the applicant does need to provide evidence that they have been living with their spouse/partner over the period since their last leave was granted in the form of correspondence covering that period addressed jointly to them both or a mixture addressed to each of them at the same address. See under "Your relationship" in "Section 13 - Documents" of Form FLR(M) for details and some examples. (The same will be required when applying for ILR)

Indeed, although in many cases people are aiming for FLR, ILR and then naturalisation as British soon after, in which case the time periods can overlap. For example, my wife arrived on her first settlement visa in September this year. After getting ILR (should be around end of 2020, very roughly?), I believe she can apply for naturalisation as soon as that's granted. If so, extended periods outside the UK might not affect the ILR, but could affect the naturalisation application shortly after.