TV7

Is anyone surprised?

Actually Franky Bear you should be surprised, shouldn't you? This is what you posted earlier:

Anyone that thinks the Brit embassy have not been on this from the start is a fool. same with Westminster. They will have stood back, taking notes allowing time for Thailand to do what they see fit. You don't just stick your nose into a sovereign countries judicial system when you feel like it.

So much for the British Embassy's note taking, huh?

The BK British Embassy is purely a chamber of commerce and the British Foreign Office is only concerned with maintaining British (and American) strategic interests in the region. Justice for British citizens is way down the agenda. So their response to this two-fingured snub from Thailand will be to take it on the chin.

And as i posted earlier the British FO interest in this case has come way too late, only forced by the Myanmar government's request for British police involvement. But by now all DNA and other evidence will have been tampered with to get the result the Thai tourism industry needs.

You should 'stick your nose into a sovereign country's judicial system' when you can anticipate at the outset that the judicial system is at best inept, more likely corrupt. The warning bells should surely have been ringing on day one when the Thai police stated that the culprits could not possibly be Thais.

Anyone that thinks the Brit embassy have not been on this from the start is a fool. same with Westminster. They will have stood back, taking notes allowing time for Thailand to do what they see fit. You don't just stick your nose into a sovereign countries judicial system when you feel like it

Correct.............

It's called "Diplomacy"....

Yes and 'diplomacy' usually means fudge, 'diplomacy' means sweeping things under the carpet in the wider strategic and business interests of Britain and its Western friends (the US). It rarely recognises 'justice' as an important factor, if it is inconvenient.

Would be great to find out how they could one of the most important witnesses leave the island. The Scottish guy named "Sean."

Let's hope that Scotland Yard did its own research.

Have you read his latest social media statements. He says he doesn't know who did it, and explains his former fb comments differently to how many of interpreted them. Makes it clear he was guessing the male victim went to try and rescue the lady, but only guessing.

Not really the key witness he's been made out to be - which he blames on the media inventing things.

He was only made a 'key witness' by the conspiracy theory fantasists on here who want to make McCanna into a backpackers' hero despite all evidence to the contrary. He is/was an attention seeker who no doubt under the influence tried to make himself part of the story. At least he's now had the good sense to lie low.

i am amused by the amount of faith shown in the British foreign office and embassy. i might ask why they didn't question the course of the investigation much earlier, like when the Thai police ruled out the possibility that the culprits could be Thais and took to randomly DNA testing Burmese migrants and even placed the victims' British friends under suspicion. And when the Thai police released graphic crime scene photos and evidence to the media, upsetting the victims' families in Britain and potentially leading to a mistrial. It's all a bit late now. Who knows how much DNA and other evidence has been tampered with to create the result the Thai tourism industry needs? Britain has only been stirred into belated action following a request from the Burmese government to involve Scotland Yard. Which suggests that the British foreign office is more concerned with regional diplomacy than getting justice for its citizens.

You raise a lot of obviously suspicious questions. i take issue with two: what has that fantasist mccanna got to do do with the price of bacon? And the mobile phone pictured with Hannah in the bar is a totally different phone to the one pictured on the desk when Hannahs friend is talking to the police. If she had handed Hannahs phone to the police don't you think she would have spoken up by now?

'Farce' i think is the correct word. Allowing locals and tourists onto the crime scene while it was being searched for evidence. Releasing graphic photos of the victims' injuries that raised the whole temperature of this case internationally. Regular press briefings on suspects. None of this suggests a police force that was intent on a pernicious cover up. Rather it merely reveals how unsophisticated and inept are the Thai police in making such investigations.

Yes, I go along with most of what you are saying except that I would not describe this as a farce. Another way of expressing this, is to say that the Thai police could do with more experts in the field regarding these types of complicated investigations, plus are in desperate need of more resources and higher budgets to investigate such crimes, in many instances the Thai police force are up against the odds trying to fight crime with the limited resources at their disposal.

I can remember dating back to the tragic death of Princess Diana in France. During that time the French police made a right pig`s ear of the whole inquiry, they were considered as the most incompetent police force in the world and they had all the state of the art resources available to them, but again the amateur conspiracy theorists came out in force, only in those days the social media sites were not that well established so there were less platforms for them to air their views. But even today the conspiracy theorists are still ranting on about that case, mostly without a shred of hard evidence to back them up, so it remains as just theories that never have any factual conclusions.

Let us hope that this case does not conclude in the same way, and there will not be any doubts and that the souls of this tragic couple will be able to rest in peace and the minds of the families will be at peace. At this time, this is all we can hope for.

So what you mean is that it is not a farce if:

1) Police fails to secure the crime scene and let people including possible suspects (owner of AC bar only 50cm away from David's legs) trample the crime scene with the possibility to destroy and/or plant evidence?

2) A cigarette butt is used to make a conviction while semen inside one of the victims is being ignored?

3) Police is unable to tell what a stab wound looks like and how the work of a garden hoe on a skull looks like?

4) Possible witnesses or accessories to murde such as Sean with the bloody guitar who was hunted and received death threats by AC bar owner and his police friend (photo from behind the counter at 7Eleven).

5) A possible suspect reappearing at the Bkk university the day after with reported scratch marks on back and arms is not DNA tested because he's the son of one of the mafia king pins on Koh Tao?

6) Police ignores possible crucial two minutes on the CCTV cameras with those two minutes perhaps "lost"?

7) A footprint at the crime scene not being casted in plaster, only photographed?

8) Crucial confidemt information and shocking uncensored crime scene photos leaked to the internet by police and rescue?

9) The fact that David's attacker and murderer must have been a left hander with body height above Thai average according to the stab wounds being ignored?

10) No search for David's murder weapon, the push dagger?

11) Reports that police tried to bribe people into witness statements?

12) Torture and threats in a "safe house" away from witnesses to enforce confessions?

... and the list goes on and on... These are not just a few but thousands of open question marks, far more and very different to the Diana crash... If you can't see that the above points are more than enough to not question, but condemn the whole investigation with reason enough to put this above an average "conspiray theory", then you must be either completely ignorant or (sorry) mentally challenged. Throwing the Diana crash investigation and this case into one bucket does not work for me and most likely not for the truth seeking other 90% here..

And since you were talking about insufficient police budgets - it doesn't cost a lot to seal off a crime scene properly - and that was THE first and possibly biggest mistake they made. Any defense lawyer with a brain could rip the whole case apart only showing that one photo with that AC bar f#$eR standing next to one of the victims whereas he reappeared over and over again during the whole investigation.

And dont forget about the victims mobile phone that was 'found' by the police behind the accuseds residence.

Yet the same phone was given to the Police by the victims friend the day after the murders and is seen photographed on the police desk!!!

And so it goes on......................

'Farce' i think is the correct word. Allowing locals and tourists onto the crime scene while it was being searched for evidence. Releasing graphic photos of the victims' injuries that raised the whole temperature of this case internationally. Regular press briefings on suspects. None of this suggests a police force that was intent on a pernicious cover up. Rather it merely reveals how unsophisticated and inept are the Thai police in making such investigations.

'Farce' i think is the correct word. Allowing locals and tourists onto the crime scene while it was being searched for evidence. Releasing graphic photos of the victims' injuries that raised the whole temperature of this case internationally. Regular press briefings on suspects. None of this suggests a police force that was intent on a pernicious cover up. Rather it merely reveals how unsophisticated and inept are the Thai police in making such investigations.

The much more worrying thing is, if these are the wrong men who are going to be prosecuted, that the upper ranks of the RTP and even the PM would be in very hot water after all the statements they've made. This would cause damage way beyond tourism.

I hope i'm wrong but i don't see this going to trial. I suspect there will be a Guilty plea possibly on ' advice ' they will be spared to death penalty which means the witnesses and evidence will never be tested in court as there seems more than enough room for a half decent defence lawyer to plead a very good case and raise substantial reasonable doubt..

i'm sure you're right. Guilty plea, flimsy evidence produced, quick trial, defence of being drunk, didn't mean to kill them etc, 20 year sentence, but deported to Myanmar after a few years where they will be quietly released 'on parole'.

Indeed.

That is on the MCOT own TV clip. If that is the case, then the whole case must be judged bogus

Sometime a picture is worth more than a thousand words..

I don't see what point you are making. The phone Hannah has is not the same phone as the one her friend has in the photo with the police.

Where did you get that information from? Do you have a source please?

Don't need a source, just look at the photos, Hannah's phone is not the same as the one her friend has when she is talking to the police.

CSI LA facebook group , is not a reliable source , we all know that. You will find all sorts of conspiracies there, some of them is plausible , others are just ridicilous.

So using that page as some sort of evidence is just plain stupid.

So can you explain why Hannahs friend is seen giving Hannahs phone to the police, then the police magically find it near one of the suspects homes.

Indeed.

That is on the MCOT own TV clip. If that is the case, then the whole case must be judged bogus

Sometime a picture is worth more than a thousand words..

I don't see what point you are making. The phone Hannah has is not the same phone as the one her friend has in the photo with the police.

I'm as sceptical as most people on this site about this development, which many of us anticipated. You wonder why it has taken more than two weeks to find these suspects on that small island. You wonder why they didn't flee the island ages ago, especially when the Thai police publicly announced very early on that they would DNA test all Burmese migrant workers.

That said, the story and re-enactment does fit the evidence....and surely dispels some of the more bizarre theories spread on this site about David not being with Hannah and only coming to her aid when he heard her screams, or the involvement of Sean McCanna....as both a hero in some posts and an accomplice to murder in others.

But it's hard to understand why, if rape was the sole motive, there was such brutality in the disfiguring of Hannah's face. Maybe they were on yaba, maybe they over-reacted in silencing Hannah's screams. But the violence was disgustingly extreme.

The Thai police still have lots of convincing to do that they have the real culprits.

Also the person who claims these couple couldn't be having sex because they were never seen being together - can you please explain this photo why are they sitting at the same table? jsut because they didn't seem to be together in the CCTV doesnt mean they can't be together else where.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2776072/Taxi-driver-says-beaten-Thai-police-investigating-murder-two-British-backpackers-refused-accept-bribe-false-evidence.html

There is no evidence to support the theory the two victims had been engaging in or had engaged in sex.... nothing... .. no dna, no sperm, no link other than they were both found murdered near each other...

NO EVIDENCE of the Brit couple having sex..................Its pretty impossible to have sex without DNA being there...

So it makes this confession and witness pretty suspect when he says he was watching the victims having sex when theres no dna evidence that supports they were. GET IT ?

Huh?

Impossible to have seen W/of death?

I would say the injuries to both suggest that David was attacked from behind (taken by surprise) while Hannah was facing the killers, and that both were on the ground when attacked. It doesn't prove they were having sex, but they may have been at least snogging. Not that any of this really matters.

how did they make them confess? beating? torture? e-shock? threat of familyß

More subtle than that... a big fat baht bung (paid by the island chief) for the poor sap's poverty stricken family in Myanmar and a promise of an early release following sentencing, once all the international fuss has died down

The police later retracted their statement and said Mr. Warot was no longer a suspect because he was in Bangkok when the murder took place.

Then why are we bringing the matter up again?

Go get the guilty person(s).

So papa tells the keystone cops that his son was in BK the whole time and the kc retract their statement...just like that. No money changed hands? You gotta be kidding me! And this CCTV is a joke, clearly been tampered with. Very simple way out of this....the kid presents himself at the British Embassy in BK for a DNA test tomorrow.

he went to the kanman, who himself is suspected of surpressing evidence ?

How long until he will fall from a balcony, drown in unsafe waters, or is killed in a motorcycle accident ?

Why the press reveals his real name, doesn't get me. He is accusing the police of comitting a very heavy crime . . hope he has protection.

Me think the couple got murdered by a local who was at the bar, approached the girl and got rejected, then additionally confronted by her buddy partner. A typical case of Face Loss gone the killer road.

And got off the island at dawn on a speedboat and disappeared......and everyone knows who that is.....even the keystone cops must know

I keep seeing posts saying the guy in the CCTV has been 'confirmed as Mon' - has this actually been confirmed on anywhere other than on the TV rumour mill?

From the way he moves, his physique and his Asian pop star hair style, he looks in his early-mid twenties, and too fair skinned to be this Mon chap.

IF (and I mean IF, the realms of fantasy and reality have become blurred to put it lightly) it's true that DM's pale shorts were missing and this guy is caught rushing around nothing but a pair of oversized pale shorts around the time and location of the murder, this guy is the key.

Everything should focus on him.

I don't believe for second there is a collective conspiracy by islanders, but I don't believe for a millisecond that there is not a single soul recognises this guy, no way. We can easily recognise people we know from a long distance away by their body shape and movements, and this footage is pretty close up.

There's been a ridiculous amount of fantasist speculation here and I'm hesitant to add to it.

But let's add it up - a frenzied horrific double rape/murder, metres away from hotels, a police station and a bar, on a 'locked down' tiny Island, with more evidence the police could wish for - DNA, the murder weapon, the killers' clothes, CCTV footage....

This can't just be police incompetence.

I think everyone know who the main perp is. It's believed he left the island on a speed boat early the next morning, and there doesn't seem to be any police interest in bringing him back. But there was at least one other person involved who may not have access to a speedboat.

Has everyone seen the latest on BPost?

Former Koh Tao murder 'suspect' confirms innocence Son of island headman says false accusations ruined his life

SMH

the main accusation made against him was that he took a week to hand himself in, he only has himself to blame

Is this the son who is at university in BK? Did he ever hand himself in? I don't think he's ever been DNA tested, so how can he be excluded from the case? I also read that the island headman (the owner of AC bar) has another son.

That's right. He is telling the truth.his son can prove and was at university. HIs other son left the island on the morning of the murders.they are playing games with words. The one that left the island, I dont think gave DNA.

It's as I thought...as you say, they are playing games. Don't the cops know he has another son? That's who they need to find. Maybe the cops should close the bar down on the basis that they have recently found drugs there until papa gives his son up.

Has everyone seen the latest on BPost?

Former Koh Tao murder 'suspect' confirms innocence Son of island headman says false accusations ruined his life

SMH

the main accusation made against him was that he took a week to hand himself in, he only has himself to blame

Is this the son who is at university in BK? Did he ever hand himself in? I don't think he's ever been DNA tested, so how can he be excluded from the case? I also read that the island headman (the owner of AC bar) has another son.

It is quite possible that Hannah's friend didn't see any row. But other reports say that unnamed people witnessed the row, and that it was heated.

David may have been skinny dipping. Maybe the green towel was his.

I agree, just because the friend didnt see an altercation, doesnt mean it didnt happen. Just because you're out on a night with people, doesnt mean you're stuck with them every single minute. She could have been at the table whilst the 2 victims were at the bar or vice versa. The place looks big and presumably busy. The 2 victims might have been on their own when the altercation took place. Plus others said it DID happen.

Ok. I've been going through a lot of other rape/murder cases and it seems that mutilation of the body after gang rape is quite common so despite the brutality of the injuries to Hannah's head it might not mean the killers deliberately did it out of anger.

I agree Penoirz, it was a crowded bar Hannah's friend may have been dancing or in the bathroom. I also read somewhere that there was an altercation as they were leaving the bar, so she might not have seen that.

As for the theory about mutilation after gang rape, i refer you to the photograph that shows two pools of blood which suggests that Hannah was attacked at the first spot and then dragged to the second and the drag marks don't show any signs of a struggle.

Has it been confirmed they had a row, because i had read that Hannah's friend said she never saw David or Hannah having an argument with anyone?

Another thing is they could of had a gun and forced David to strip at gun point.

It is quite possible that Hannah's friend didn't see any row. But other reports say that unnamed people witnessed the row, and that it was heated.

David may have been skinny dipping. Maybe the green towel was his.

There must have been two similar, green towels on the crime scene, one of them thrown over Hannah's face, and the other in a bundle on a rock close to the water and the body of Dave.

If not, then the people who first arrived at the crime scene and started snapping away, must have been busy carrying one (possibly contaminated) green towel all over the crime scene, which sounds totally weird.

Do you have a photo that has both of them in it?

It probably is just the towel was there so they chucked it over her head

Thanks for posting this picture. Interesting if you look at a distance you see two distinct areas of blood. If you look on a closer level, the left side shows drag marks to the left of screen. The right side of the blood stained sand shows erratic drag marks and quite a lot of them leading to the sea. That side also contains the men's clothes. The underwear appears to be boxers and perhaps denim jeans or shorts with a belt and what looks like David's tshirt.

The left side of screen with the drag marks to the left shows a lot more blood. One wonders as another poster said if Hannah was shot in the head dragged to the rocky enclave and raped. To hide the shooting ...well you know the rest.

I actually think it's obvious on studying this picture that both were physically attacked here at this very spot.

Could the image of one of the "runners" on CCTV be of someone holding a wallet or Hannah's small purse as is seen on the table along with her iPhone in the last picture she was in with the group ?

Well surely the police gathered samples from the ground to determine if they both were seriously injured on that spot, because when the police took David's body out of the water his head was still bleeding heavily so it could be entirely his blood.

I think that might be her wallet on the right.

Can you help me with this photo. Wasn't Hannah's body found further along the beach from where these two bloodstained areas are in the foreground of the photo, in between two rocks? If so, then is it not probable that Hannah was attacked and killed at the first spot where she was found with David and then dragged somewhere more concealed to be raped?

I'll have to be careful what I write. Most people on Koh Tao know who are responsible. They also know who took the main perpetrator of the island by private speedboat around sunrise. Media and UK reps were not allowed to witness DNA taking of certain suspects. But everyone on the island is too scared to talk. And who are you gonna talk to when the guy leading the investigation is a friend and partner of a certain local family in a mainland business venture? I think there will be quite some foreigners who are planning their departure from the island. And hopefully when one of these people is back safe in their home country the full story will come out.

The island people and police know what as happened on the beach from the first day. What is still being discussed is the circumstances exactly surrounding the initial beach meeting with Hannah and David. From what I have heard and no I cannot confirm this hypothesis but I believe that Hannah was being assaulted on the beach where the blood is first seen. David was with Sean - they had met up. The beach is very close to a c bar Sean and David started down to the beach on hearing the screams. Sean was threatened he ran. David was threatened but continued his way down to hannah despite the numbers being against him. The Thais saw it was Sean that was with David and had been threatening him ever since. The night he reported the threats was the crescendo it was not the first threat sean had received since that night. David absolutely lost his life fighting for Hannah's and was as noble as Sean said. The lack of clothing and the condom are anomalies.

The above hypothesis seems quite plausible. Hannah is seen walking alone and is raped but without the intention to murder her - the perpetrators believe they will get away with it. A single white girl's story can be easily covered up. Now David enters the scene and is killed so that there are no witnesses. Now that Hannah is also witness to David's murder they have to silence her too. Sean stubbornly stays on the island afterwards and he too is on the list of witnesses to be silenced. I can believe it.

Did Sean and David meet up though?

That is what we don't know because he has said a bunch of contradictory statements, and why it would be extremely important to get Sean, David and Hannah's phone records.

Yes you're right, it's a pity that Mon and his family have the same contradictory statements, or it would be solved..would you agree it's just AS IMPORTANT TO GET DNA SAMPLES FROM THE family...

How can this 'hypothesis be plausible'? There is no evidence that David and McCanna met up that night? McCanna in his FB post said he didn't meet up with David that night. Instead we do have the evidence of Hannah's friend who says David and Hannah left together....,why would Hannah walk on the beach alone? We also know that David was clubbed on the back of the head. Since he would be much taller than a Thai attacker, it is logical that he was on the ground when he was attacked, taken by surprise while otherwise engaged. Can we stop with these Sean McCanna fantasies. He is not part of the story.