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Unconvinced
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Posts posted by Unconvinced
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Bangkok tax driver returns laptop or bag of cash, gets reported instantly.
Other crimes, not so much.
Did Kobkarn visit these victims when in London? (story introduced on andrew-drummond):
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@ unconvinced.
It wasnt never Nomsod who they were after it was second man in sean's picture posted to fb next to Mon.who had left koh tao next morning when these alledged threats happened. All these comments were made by that time by meny difrent policeman at time bcase there was no real spokes man so when all them was commenting all tryed get honor of it so meny stories got mixed till they got bull from hornes announced that new appointed leader of investigation will be only one commenting after that point.
Like i said far as i know , mon was tested that day of hes dna and was never locked up wasnt running or hiding and why would of him he never did nothing wrong.
What comes to Sean he had lived in island dressed as pirate jack sparrow for 8 months 2 years ago and had to leave island bcase unpaid bar tabs etc. He come back day before those murders, to even think he would have real knowledge about island and its people is funny bcase no one really liked him and for people living here he was more like village idiot a joke whom people would bet how long and hes gone again . No one would of trust him with bar tab or listen really bcase we all new what kind of fruitcase we talking. That Andrew Drummond also can be talked as journalist he was like police that time . Each day new theory..
One thing i say even sounding defensive tovards Mon when western people arranged memorial for Hannah and David there was all the expakts of island and few thais one of them was Mon amongst all ,he come bring flower lighted insest stick. Stayed there with us.
Local thais did same thing day before with munks he was there 2. There would of been no need him come our memorial but yet he come .
So Mon was at the memorial. What a wonderful, sympathetic fellow. He also turned up at the crime scene at the crack of dawn for some reason. So he's very helpful too. And I think appears in photos of the police enactment of the crime standing with the police. He's a very public-spirited individual, and clearly he's like family with the police. Is he related to anyone important? Thank you for your character reference.
Your reply to my restrained disbelief at your previous post is now to assert that when police clearly stated that they were looking for the son of the headman who had fled the island the morning after the murders and was their prime suspect after eliminating all others through completed DNA testing, is ... that the police were actually talking about their pursuit of Big Ears, the policeman who had (allegedly, together with the public-spirited Mon) chased and threatened Sean McAnna. Except that they weren't:
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/
www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1411548167
Still restrained (and you make it difficult), and still ...
Unconvinced
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Absolute bs and speculation with out eny of the facts.
He the brother never really was a subject ,for litle while that day bcase of mis understandment of comment from mr mcanna "he did it"
who him self also has said that he didnt mean the murders he meant if he dies that night in supermarket its guys in picture who did .
Why they were chacing him ,was bcase he went to ac bar fumingly drunk after week bender and after all thiss has happened shouting all sorts of accusation and when the brother said u seem to have something to hide we know u have blood in your hands wich they had been told by worker of some other bar at other end of beach, that he had asked for help clean blood and had similar cuts. after that situation at night he run a way from ac and thai boys thought he accidently panicked and confessed.thats when was calling to sky news ,i find it weird if you think you gonna get killed is it news u want call first????
Later thought its cleared that he got hes injuries day before murders,similar cuts thought then david and he said got them by motorbike???
Why u think that sean mcanna been quiet since ,does he have something to hide or is he just a nother false story,attension seeker??
Ive not seen single video of nomsod been in koh tao and if you really think someone local here could bribe everyone all the way to top u are truly delucional.
I dont know what happened but know for 100 % shure brother have nothing else to do with case then last bungalow of hes resort is 50 m away from crime scene and that nomsod really was in Bk.
U can tvist it as much u guys want but its the truth.
You assert that the police pursuit of Nomsod and others related to him was caused only by the earlier confusion about whether Sean McAnna's text message about "who did it" was referring to who did the original crime or who was threatening to kill Sean. McAnna later says that he meant the latter, but before he left the island there was reason to believe that he knew something about the mafia on Koh Tao and possibly about the murders, and at the same time the police were coming up empty. And yet he was given safe passage off the island and out of the country with no further word of inquiry and no suggestion he'd be needed as a witness.
The police then announced they had arrested Mon, and were pursuing the headman's son (i.e. Nomsod) who had fled the island and was hiding in Bangkok. Pol-LtGen Panya said "both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders." And that they would also nail the people who helped him escape. Police did not mention anyone's allegations, nor the ravings of the departed McAnna; they referred to evidence they had collected and examined.
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/
The next day they released Mon after interrogating him and his brother the headman. Presumably Mon offered some explanation for his presence on CCTV, or convinced the police that it wasn't him. And Mon was saying Sean should be a suspect instead. But the headman was quoted as saying he could not contact his son and did not know whether he had a hand in the killings!
What would naturally follow all that would be an arrest and questioning of Nomsod, thorough investigation of his phone and plane records, etc, investigation of the speedboat escape and friends of Nomsod also missing from the island, but instead the very next day, police announced that Nomsod had some evidence that he'd been in Bangkok and all further inquiries and pursuit of leads regarding that family ceased.
Are you claiming that neither of these guys were on CCTV, that the police announced them as prime suspects with certainty and evidence, but were in fact mistaken and/or misquoted by Thai PBS, The Nation and Khaosod, and/or had been misled by one text message of a Scotsman they'd already deemed irrelevant?
Are you claiming that the police satisfied themselves with Nomsod's alibi without arresting him (their declared prime suspect) and by some other means of investigation literally overnight (from Sep 24 to Sep 25)? So that, just like you, the police don't know what happened but suddenly became 100% sure these two guys were not involved?
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Why does it matter? Conspiracy nuts will just not believe and demand more proof only to then go on and disbelieve that.
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What kind of results are these people thinking will happen ... that somehow the two DNA samples collected at the scene will somehow match a third person making two people who don't even share the same heritage having identical DNA. THEY ALREADY MATCHED THE DNA and this kid was not even on the island at the time of the murders. At least their is tough defamation laws in Thailand and this is a perfect example of when they should be used.
If the matches are so certain, why has the prosecutor sent the docket back THREE times?
I think the only DNA match is between the cigarette butts on the beach and the 2 Myanmar guys, and they have already admitted they were on the beach. This is why the prosecutor keeps asking for more evidence - I have never read that they have a match between the Myanmar and from inside Hannah . Big man will have paid the local police to make sure that any DNA that is tested isn't actually from the son. There is no point in the Myanmar guys denying it if they did it, because they would know that their DNA was inside Hannah. Only the son of the big boss would rape and expect to get away with it.
No, I think there was a DNA match claimed between the cigarette and the semen. Whether the claim by police that this DNA matches the Burmese suspects is a true claim is the big question.
Unless the Brits have already been remarkably influential themselves and forced this test, why do it? Isn't the likely answer that the influential person knows that there will not be a match (and needs to get everyone off his back).
This doesn't necessarily mean that there has to be some sinister orchestration of a dishonest non-match, with his friends in the RTP playing games with either the base DNA samples from that night or the new sample from him. (Although everyone will naturally want to see how public, transparent and independently supervised is this new test.)
I think the test (still assuming it's entirely voluntary) can go sweetly without any new skulduggery, and that requires either that he is totally innnocent or simply that he is assured that the DNA on the cigarette that matches the semen is the only DNA his will be tested against and is not his. Doesn't mean he didn't participate, but helps him bolster that assertion. Good move, long awaited, way too late and too many other issues to remove all suspicion, but good move.
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Having tried to read and digest all the news and postings on this case I've come to the conclusion that these 2 Myanmar guys may have been selected to be scapegoats at a very early stage in the chain of events. It seems everyone knew they played guitar, smoked, drank beer and frequented the beach in close proximity to where the bodies were found. They were also bar workers and illegal immigrants who fled the police when they played takraw with their friends. They were an easy target for a 'frame up' especially if the local cop/bag man was involved. When I watched the re-enactment charade they came across as being in a total daze, if not in a state of shock to the extent they had to be 'directed' by the RTP. I'll eat 'humble pie' if I'm wrong, but I think I'll be eating fried rice instead when this whole unsavoury casee is solved.
This is what I don't understand. Why weren't they the first to be dna tested if they were hot suspects? Yet their results supposedly cam several weeks after the murder. They also appear to be in the first batch who were tested, and deemed cleared - this was roughly 200 persons. Surely they were in that first group. Then their dna is supposedly found positive in world record time (were they tested again, and somehow found positive the second time. No wonder the prosecutors have a major headache!
That extremely inconvenient photo showing at least one of the Burmese suspects and the third Burmese "star witness" (fail) in the early lines to get DNA-tested suggests they were tested. They were smiling unworried in the queue and they stuck around the island thereafter. I expect also that any and all staff of the vital bar would have been prioritised for testing when the police were so focused on that bar on and around Sep 24.
Another great news story from the early days (after they'd given up accusing farang friends of homosexual jealousy and placing stained pants in the wrong luggage, but before they were very briefly pursuing the headman's son) was the following article about 3 Burmese guys detained and suspected purely because they'd been on the beach. A subsequent report cleared and freed them because their DNA did not match. Would be great to know if these are the very same 3 Burmese guys that the police circled back to a few weeks later under Plan D or E:
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Here is an interesting question for you and extremely pertinent!
Why was Nom Sod EVER suspected to be prime suspect?
He was in Bangkok!!!!!!!!!, so why would the police ever connect him in the first place.
Most murders are committed by people that you know. However, Nom Sod has no connection to the suspects whatsoever, so why was he suspected?
If you can answer this question then you have solved the case imo
Him and his uncle were named as suspects initially:
Yeh but why? That question has never been answered!
The only reason it has not been answered is that the whole Tuvichien line of enquiry went from red hot to absolute zero literally overnight. Hence such questions were never asked again. Panya was then promoted entirely out of orbit, and the whole thing thereafter turned Burmese.
Luang has referenced the ThaiPBS article wherein that line of enquiry was frozen. To accompany that, I refer now to the Nation article of one day prior, an article well worth keeping, wherein Panya said they'd grilled the headman and were chasing the fleeing son:
In separate reports, the temporarily on-the-ropes headman was quoted as saying he did not know where his son was now and did not know whether his son was involved in the murders. Wow! Other reports even named the speedboat he used to flee. Later, with new head coppers, the family got off the ropes and came out punching, and the story changed to: son was in Bangok the whole time.
So what's the guess why the RTP were fully focused on that bar and that family early and quickly? I don't know, but it's a small community and they may well have been tipped off to the full truth early and quickly.
Alternatively, they were totally mistaken and "misquoted" and, after a week in hiding, the son's flaky alibi produced by a family friend Thai lawyer of unquestionable integrity showed that this line of enquiry required no pursuit or explanation whatsoever, and don't ask us about it ever again.
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Small demonstrations of Burmese people in Yangon (for Prayuth) and in front of the Burmese embassy in Tokyo.
Points also for the lone Thai guy standing outside Scotland Yard with a cardboard sign asking them to investigate.
source?
Both demos referenced with links on Andy Hall twitter: twitter.com/atomicalandy
And the demo greeting Prayuth in Yangon is from the Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Prayut-greeted-by-protest-in-Yangon-30245172.html
The Thai guy outside Scotland yard was pictured on CSI LA
thank you.but i cant see the pic of the thai guy outside Scotland Yard please post here or pm me
Good grief. OK. Trawled through CSI LA but can't find it again either. He gets so many posts an hour and I saw it last night. Anyway, here it is. Pic has appeared now on a blog in Burma. His hand-held sign references CSI LA:
Per the Burmese blog recently found by TVF poster Steve Fong:
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Well, I guess it's just a blog, that pesky "social media" the police and the general can't seem to fathom. But if a blog in Burma is specifying the alternative protected suspect so clearly, then it can't be long before his name and the full story of his widely-discussed escape from the island and dodgy Bangkok alibi appear in Burmese and international newspapers.
Whereas all this has happened before (e.g. Chiang Mai) and the police have got away with it, the level of attention upon this disastrous botch-up and corruption is much greater. Can Thailand really get away without doing at least some of the right thing on this one? Surely they'll at least have to fess up at least one more convincing participant in the crime, even if they continue to try to protect others.
By the way, CSI LA is still going strong; maybe it's just busy rather than blocked, and that's got to be good. They've got the son's university timetable and they're picking over the alibi video photos.
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"I want to stress that police have investigated this case based on the law, examined evidence in line with international standards, and are fully accountable," national police chief Somyot Poompanmoung..."
INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS? They had a fxxking Pan Cake Salesman interview the suspects!!!! A PAN CAKE SALESMAN!
Roti boy, amateur interrogator and stage director, is also from a rival ethnic and language group.
Interrogations performed without legal representation.
Somyot has to go down for this. He participated in the stage-managed enactment on the beach and has backed his men on the non-following of all the other leads.
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Small demonstrations of Burmese people in Yangon (for Prayuth) and in front of the Burmese embassy in Tokyo.
Points also for the lone Thai guy standing outside Scotland Yard with a cardboard sign asking them to investigate.
source?
Both demos referenced with links on Andy Hall twitter: twitter.com/atomicalandy
And the demo greeting Prayuth in Yangon is from the Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Prayut-greeted-by-protest-in-Yangon-30245172.html
The Thai guy outside Scotland yard was pictured on CSI LA
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Small demonstrations of Burmese people in Yangon (for Prayuth) and in front of the Burmese embassy in Tokyo.
Points also for the lone Thai guy standing outside Scotland Yard with a cardboard sign asking them to investigate.
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This is ugly, and the diabolical Samui Prison chief is clearly laying the table for prisoner "suicide" and showing his own prejudice and alignment at the same time.
If they don't recant their coerced confessions, they are toast. It will go through the court like lightning and straight to sentencing, and the giant doubts about the DNA match won't stop that.
The reports of recanting are still second hand. They have been visited by Myanmar embassy officials and a Thai govt "human rights" stooge. They have had one meeting, probably supervised, with Andy Hall's migrant workers group, which we here might recognise as an independent lifeline, but it's not clear to me yet that the two dumbstruck hobbits are sure whether they can trust anyone.
They need to formally appoint lawyers the can trust and recant in writing. Andy Halls' twitter feed says they each appointed personal Thai lawyers this morning, which is positive and at least means they survived the night. They need to give a full accurate account of exactly what they did and saw that night, in writing. Until then, the police and other authorities may genuinely believe that they can put this whole matter to rest with the unavoidable death of the suspects in custody and rest upon their earlier "confession" to roti boy; it has worked before.
If you don't they are that brazen and brainless, I submit in suppport of this fear: (1) the pathetic simplistic stick-figure full-of-holes story that they took a full day to drum into these two suckers (we get drunk, we see people, we grab hoe, we get aroused, we morph into raging psycopaths, just the two of us, two hobbits one hoe, case closed); and (2) the fact the law expected this to withstand scrutiny and yet it unravelled so quickly as soon as anyone insisted on speaking to their star witness (they should have dreamt up a Thai star witness rather than a Burmese national that the embassy could insist on seeing); not to mention (3) all the other leads and questions the police have failed to pursue because they think they can.
(Edit: don't put a, b and c in brackets in ThaiVisa; they come out funny; changed to 1, 2, 3)
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Condoms!!!?? Who puts on a condom before raping??
A rapist that doesn't want to leave semen inside the victim as it can be a bit of a give away!!!
So ... not just your average rapist then.
Other possibilities (not mutually exclusive; may apply simultaneously):
- an experienced rapist
- an educated rapist
- a date-rape artist
- a rape pack leader
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The pancake seller is giving a real dirty look in the other picture of this article
Thai web-board commentary on this banana pancake "translator" says that he is a Rohingya Muslim and totally inappropriate for that and other reasons. Maybe that's unfair; I'm sure he doesn't owe the police and any other key people on Koh Tao anything whatsover one for the right to run that stall in peace, and personally I thought his taller co-enforcer in the light blue shirt who was stood over the smaller suspect looked more sinister than all of the other coppers and suspects combined. However, the Thais have a point when they observe that there would be quite some objection if a Thai was accused of a gruesome crime in London and the UK police grabbed some street vendor off the pavement who speaks a little Thai and comes from an ethnic group with reason to hate Thais.
Anyway, back to that photo, the Burmese delegation clearly wouldn't need roti boy's dubious translation and enforcement services; so presumably he must be there to listen in to what they are saying as best he could ... and then tell his copper mate "uh oh, we are f'd".
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This one you mean?
“We are aware of concerns expressed in relation to the latest developments and expect the Thai authorities to address these thoroughly and transparently.
“The investigation and judicial process remains a matter for the Thai authorities, but we expect it to be conducted in a fair and transparent way. We remain in contact with them and have asked to be kept closely informed
I believe this is what the industry refers to as 'damning with feint praise'. I speak diplomat so let me explain:
The phrase:"We are aware of concerns expressed in relation to the latest development" means 'we are worried by these latest developments, that we are even acknowledging them in a formal statement to the press instead of ignoring them as we'd rather be doing'.
The phrase: "and expect the Thai authorities to address these thoroughly and transparently" means 'and expect the Thai authorities to address the concerns WITH evidence, open to public scrutiny'
"The investigation and judicial process remains a matter for the Thai authorities" means exactly that. Its the next word that is a KILLER in the diplomacy world though:
BUT...
This is a direct criticism of either the handling of the case or the handling of the media in the case. There should be no but in this statement. It should read AND followed by lavish praise at the performance and handling of the case by the Royal Thai Police.
"but, we expect it to be conducted in a fair and transparent way" and here is the real knife twist. Two statements on a lack of transparency within a three sentence statement? An interjection on proper procedure? And then a kiss off with a reminder on fairness. Youd have to be deaf or willfully ignorant not to not hear the message here: The foreign office are currently unsatisfied with events... or at the very least the oversight of these events. The very fact they mention these 'concerns' is also incredibly important since it indicates that the foreign office is having to listen to these concerns AND take them seriously. The only statement the FO WANTS to make is, "We are very grateful to the RTP for their invaluable assistance in... baseless and senseless attacks. " Nowhere do they want to talk about being aware of concerns about transparency and fairness. Nowhere do they want to drop the word BUT after having to point out that this is a matter for Thailand to resolve.
Sorry to have to explain the blindingly obvious to you about subtext. Im sure you can in fact read it
You speak diplomat fluently!
Following the Telegraph article, Ambassador Kent is stressing explicitly on twitter that has has made no comment or endorsement of the investigation. Was he not reported (by Thai police?) as saying they had performed with "exemplary professionalism" and that the UK would not interfere, or was that a Thai police claim on the same list as the satisfaction of the Myanmar representatives, the presence of lawyers for the accused, and the chopping and changing regarding the numbers of guilty suspects, murder weapons and mobile phones?
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This case is being blown into a national fiasco
Wow! That Coconuts article is dynamite. Are they/we sure they've got this right? The Irawaddy article reported the Myanmar embassy lawyer as saying the suspects were fearful and had been "tortured" but recited their admission of hitting the victims with the back of the hoe. Coconuts says they have recanted.
I was going to say that, even without independent confirmation of a DNA match, these suspects are toast if they don't recant. From the UK point of view (with public and journalists unfamiliar with Thai police previous), a reported confession and DNA match were difficult to question, and the news story was fading. If they recant and the Myanmar govt backs them, this goes nuclear.
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Prove it by sending the DNA outside of Thailand for independent testing. All other evidence can be planted or otherwise interfered with, while confessions can be easily extracted.
Regarding the DNA testing, it was done in Singapore.
Most if not all the DNA testing was confirmed done by RTP Forensics. Do we have any confirmation that the brief early idea of sharing some of it with an unnamed Singapore lab (after rejecting the FBI idea) was actually implemented?
On 20 Sep, police said they would seek FBI help with DNA in order to determine race. On the same day, they then said that "forensic doctors" had determined the DNA was Asian and the FBI was not needed. Singapore not mentioned. On 21 Sep, there was another news story that some DNA would be sent to Singapore to get at skin colour and hair colour. Did we hear back?
In any event, the DNA found in/on (sorry) the victim is only part A of a match. Part B is from the suspects. One or two of them were photographed in the very early DNA testing queue on the island. Naturally they were early DNA targets, because after moving on from Miller's mates the police were focused on Burmese and any that worked at the vital bar would have been top priority. Somehow their DNA, whether it was tested in Thailand or Singapore was not matched then. Now it has apparently been matched but do we know that the test or the match was done in Singapore?
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As I understand it from the Andy Hall twitter feed and various news sites:
- his migrant worker lawyers have not been permitted to see the suspects
- the Myanmar embassy team saw the two suspects but were denied access to the third Burmese originally accused and now a witness
- the police announced that the Myanmar embassy team were happy with the conduct of the investigation, whereas the Myanmar embassy lawyer is quoted as saying the suspects are fearful and say they were tortured, and that there are discrepancies in the story and the evidence
- however, they also reported that the two accused have said they both hit the victims with the blunt side of the hoe and were very drunk that night
- the police at today's press conference said no suspects (so that would include the three in Samui prison and their takraw colleagues who are claiming torture) suffered any force in interrogations
- the police at today's press conference now claim that there was a lawyer present during interrogations, whereas previously they said the suspects waived their right to legal representation
- police have declared the case "closed" and this press conference "final"
www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781
Police warned to cooperate with NHRC in torture probe
in Thailand News
Posted · Edited by Unconvinced
Police response to NHRC just in:
(Yes, that is Nomsod's "lawyer". But, hey, the Police and the Tuvichiens may as well use the same guy.)