jamie obda

What is the set up? Too many keys, overbuilt, coupled with Sino-Russian package tours?

What is the end game?

Continue to rent, wait to get caught, pay a bribe?

Divest (at a loss), invest elsewhere?

Repackage 30 day rents at an under 30 day price?

I've seen condo building with less than 50% occupancy. At some point, the remaining residents are asked to pool the vacant HOA fees, disarray, disrepair ensues. It will be an interesting ride.

I'm sure this will sound silly or naive. I have a condition in which occasionally I need a painkiller. I have a prescription for it. My question is whether customs will permit it, or should I just get an over the counter pain killer while I am there?

I'm not an ex-pat, just a traveler who will be in country for about three weeks this summer.

Thanks

Philippines retirement visa is infinitely easier than Thailand. Anybody who says otherwise has not looked at both.

Thai food is probably better, at the gastronomy level. I so enjoy jasmine rice, but really not interested in eating it everyday.

Whether the ubiquity of Thai restaurants is characteristic of the quality of food is debatable. I like Korean food. I wouldn't want to eat it everyday. Not a preponderance of Korean restaurants in the USA, unless you got to Korean enclaves. I enjoyed Costa Rican when I was there. I have never seen a Costa Rican restaurant outside of Costa Rican. Does that mean they have terrible food? It's a strawman, really.

I've tried to fiind a Philippines forum board where every BM offers up a surfeit of apologia of their host country. Help me out here. I can't find one. It's telling, though. If you like CM and LOS, more power to you. If you hate Phils, stay away. Something for everyone.

This has predictably descended into the usual nonsense of people who have never visited the Philippines,or anywhere else in South-East Asia apart from Thailand slagging it off,idiots trying to goad people to get them banned etc. the usual Thai Visa experience nothing's changed,I haven't bothered posting on here for 5 years or so and probably won't again!

As for people making the outrageous claim that the Philippines is far more dangerous for foreigners than Thailand just pick up any English-language newspaper and read it <deleted>.The person claiming mysterious "disappearances" of foreigners in the Phils probably still insists that Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 is being held on Diego Garcia by the Americans,Lord Lucan and Hitler are living in Rio De Janeiro and Elvis crash landed on the moon in his private plane,the ramblings of a madman nothing more!

Genius point for you, sir.

>>Often I hear about the lowly infrastructure of the Philippines, and I don't really know what that means.<<

One example is ATMs .It was a real search to find one ,and when i did often it was not working ,when i was THERE 8 YEARS AGO ,BUT MAYBE IT HAS CHANGED SINCE .

Well, thanks for that. I can see how that can be a real inconvenience, and I'm not being sarcastic.

But I was thinking more a long the lines of reliable public transportation, potable water, electricity, wi-fi, and road conditions. Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan and Japan have all of those things, but I never see any posts about people wanting to compare those countries. Is there something I'm missing? Tropical climate? Something else?

I'm not sure comparing Manila to Chiang Mai is good. What is the population of Chiang Mai, 500k? and Manila is 3 times that? Maybe Taguig is closer in size. Phuket as a whole island is smaller than Cebu, also not a good comparison based on population. Both countries have good things, it depends on your needs, and your desires.

Often I hear about the lowly infrastructure of the Philippines, and I don't really know what that means. Does it mean reliable public transportation, clean drinking water, strong internet service? Can any one tell me?

And yet, there are old timers on TV who bemoan the development of the last thirty years (and the resultant price increases) wishing for a day, when clearly there was no infrastructure.

I often find it amusing that BMs begrudge the lack of infrastructure in certain SEA countries. And at the same time, in other forums regret the development in Thailand. Phuket, specifically floods during downpours with sewers overflowing for a brackish, fecund soup. And while power is fairly consistent there, transportation infrastructure is nonexistent, the fresh water supply is dubious, and raw sewage often plumes untreated into the sea. Maybe Udon Thani is better, I don't know.

Patong is changing, as inevitably everything must. I like Chalong, though. Regardless, I'm taking my US$ to Cebu/Boracay/Bohol and other outlying islands this year.

Wil the yuan crash? That would be interesting.

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At first I thought they meant supporters.

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Did they get charged double to visit the waterfall?

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Obama is correct for a change. His ruinous policies and division of the American people have led to revolutionary candidates like Trump and Bernie Sanders. People are fed up with politics as usual.

His division of the American people, interesting, how did he achieve that?

Using the Saul Alinsky tactics he learned as a community organizer. He turned blacks against whites, the have-nots against the haves, the poor against the rich, Hispanics against the immigration laws, non-gun owners against gun owners, and so on. Obama is all about divide and conquer!

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When I got to the part about involuntary incarceration and Liberty University, that pretty much said it all for me. Glad he got to spend some time in LOS before he went.

I have just returned from New Zealand and was keen to see whether things have changed here in Patong since I left in early January.

At that particular time there were quite a few Chinese tourists around the place but it seemed as if the high season was just about over! However there are more Chinese here than when I left, as well as quite a few Russians, and my "benchmark place" (Big C) has become busy again and indeed the GM is quite happy with the increase in business though not with the extra work involved by all accounts.

To counter that side of things, a few more small shops have closed in Nanai Road as well as the guesthouse/small hotel "Patong Residence" which is opposite the Supercheap shop, however I do believe that place has been struggling and up for sale on and off for a while now.

The construction of what now appears to be a restaurant opposite the entrance to Soi Nanai 6 (owned by the Tiger group according to another poster) is still ongoing and the grinding, drilling and general noise still echoes around the apartments nearby making sure that the residents have endured just about a year of unremitting noise. It would seem as if they constantly change their minds as to what the place will look like, removing recently laid concrete with jackhammers and replacing it with something else, only to be doing something similar all around the place – – and for what? Another restaurant in an area which has quite a few poorly frequented and closed restaurants anyway. Go figure.

Ventured into Bangla Road on Tuesday evening and although it was fairly busy, the bar scene had changed somewhat, with the normally full Smiley bar, being only about a quarter full, whereas before it was often "heaving", and New York having quite a few patrons, but nowhere near as crowded as before and the same went for Monsoon. Unfortunately things don't seem to have changed for Tao which had a handful of customers at around 10 p.m. and no more at around 2 p.m., so as has previously been stated, this one is not going to be the jewel in the crown of the venues opened by the owner.

The bars fronting Bangla, in the first half of the road heading towards the beach anyway, were strangely devoid of customers, whereas Kangaroo bar was packed as was P.One.

Resurrected Tiger was quiet and looked somewhat eerie along with around 40% of its bars being closed and New Tiger had its fair share of closed bars and a few customers, although nowhere near like times gone by. The same applied to Soi Freedom which did become busier as the night wore on/morning approached, however I would suspect that the patronage of the bars which did have a few customers in would nowhere near cover their costs.

On the subject of profitability, a bar owner friend has said that takings are down some 50% on previous years and I can quite believe it.

I can't help but keep referring to my post # 996 because what is happening in Patong is exactly the mirror image of that which happened in Spain and nothing seems to be getting in the way of this place becoming a low-end bogans paradise.

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This is the best junta, ever.

I am thrilled by all the insights and post people have made. It is very valuable. As the OP to this thread, I want to thank LIK, KarenBravo, Simon43, phuketrichard, NKM, madmitch, DrDave and others whose monnikers don't come to mind. I owe you all a beer.

My assumption, based on my primary feed FB's Phuket Rent and Sale Property group is that there are a plethora of vacancies. Since this is an English speaking group, prices are higher, and probably only represent 10 - 20% of what is available. There are some Russian postings, too. And some of these "realtors" do multiple posts every 5 - 7 days asi if the property is "new."

Most of the advertised prices are quite high, in my opinion. and again I think this in part due to being web based - which is to say appealing to people who not already on the island. And in part due to it being in English. The For Sale properties are slightly more realistic, in terms of a capitalistic dynamic of supply demand, but only if it is falang owned.I'm seeing condos in the Kata Hills and far reaches of Chalong ranging from B25k to B50k/month. I'm seeing villas upwards of 75k per month. These are egregious prices, I think. Meanwhile, I have an expat friend in Chalong who is renting a two bedroom semi-furnished house with parking three minutes walking to Jimmy's Lighthouse on a long term for B10k/month. For my part, I would rather do a long term in something like that, even if I am only there part of the year, than have to roll the dice every winter.

Unless the market crashes (it might), or there are other unpleasantries (civil war) which I think are doubtful, I'm of the long term rent mode. And having said that, please do not misunderstand it as an affront to those on this forum who have bought. Each in their own time according to their means and needs.

Again, thank you all for your comments and insights.

~ snip ~

In some respects Patong is dead and another respects it is dying, so rather than keep along this morbid path, what would you do now in order to save it from its impending death. Consider it a brainstorming type exercise where any suggestions are welcome.........doesn't have to be a multi-page essay as a few well-intentioned bullet points would suffice.

I still come to Phuket annually, but don't spend much time in Patong. I have an old friend/ex-pat in Chalong, and rather like the "slowness" of that area - although as of later there has been considerable build up.

1. Kick the vendors off the sidewalk. Most of the time you cannot walk on the sidewalk due to vendors.

2. Place as many trash receptacles as possible and teach people to use them

3. Kick the touts off Bangla. There have been nights when they comprise nearly 20% of the people

4. Baht bus, or straighten out the tuk-tuks

5. Hire street performers on Bangla, maybe something more creative than Cowboy Clown or Bamboo Dancing guy

6. Clean up the overhead wires and cables

7. A proper sewage and sanitation system

8. A long shot, but possibly ripping out one of lesser used sois on Bangla and putting in some sort of Cirque de Soleil

show

I guess after reading all these comments and traveling to Phuket for some time, it may well be that patong is not so much dying but changing, and inevitably so. The demographics are changing perhaps intentionally (TAT) but the purveyors perhaps not so much and there really isn't any blame to be assigned here. Who could have known the standard bearing Western tourist would dissipate only to be replaced by the Koreans, and then the Russians and then the Chinese? With an imminent crash of the CNY, who will be next? And what does Patong want to be? Does it want to be Maui, Recife, or Lang Kawai?

Maybe this should be in the real estate forum, mods please move it if you agree.

I have an RSS feed for several real estate outlets. Normally I would get two or three postings in a week. Lately I've been getting about 3 or 4 a day. And I'm seeing stuff from all over the island, both commercial and residential, high end and low end, for sale, long term rent and even short term rent (the later seems odd as this would be peak season?)

I realize its hard to get a read on the Thai property market. Prices seem arbitrary and I know some Thai owners would rather keep a property empty than lower a price to sell. But I imagine there may be hundreds of properties availble as I am just getting a feed from a few outlets.

So, my question is:

Is this just the normal time for leases to come up? While it is a new year on the Western calendar, it isn't on the Thai calendar.

Or are people bailing out?

How might one define "wealthy?" Total amount spent per day?

Wealth is a relative term. A middle class North American might constitute a wealthy Chinese.

There is an inverse of wealth to population distribution, hence the onslaught of cheap package tours..

It would make more sense to me to target middle class North Americans, Australians, Europeans; families, and snowbirds. But hey, what do I know.

Occupancy is hovering around 63%, Patong is about 61%. Your results may vary.

Indeed, results may vary. I'm running at 100% occupancy

Likely my logic is faulty. I simply divided the number of hotels with rooms available by the total number of hotels. I suppose they could ALL be at 90% occupancy, but still have a couple of rooms vacant. I am super glad Simon, you are doing well. And I wish all the falangs who have invested in Phuket do well.

Saw an article in another publication stating hotel occupancy rate in Phuket is set to reach 90% for New year's.

Don' t know if I can post the link.

SO I did a cursory search on Agoda for a one week stay beginning tonight. Occupancy is hovering around 63%, Payong is about 61%. Your results may vary.

As an aside, I receive postings from Phuket Sale and Rent in my RSS feed. I'm seeing 2-3 per day for immediate occupancy (i.e. vacant) all over the island, from studios to full blown villas.

Or is it rising prices and changing demographics?

First World people apply their values to developing nation's challenges.

argument #1: they hate their jobs

Lots of people hate their jobs. shall we despise global corporations for enslaving people? Maybe.

argument #2: sex trade workers are mentally retarded.

By what measure? WJ-III? Literacy rate? UNESCO puts Thai literacy rate at 96%

argument #3: Only old, disgusting farang participate in this trade and therefore should be shamed.

So many things interesting about this claim. Thai men are probably the most brutal and auspicious, and it is totally fair that you shame them, maybe shame them first. Yet many men participate, not all old, and only disgusting according to YOUR values which YOU thrust upon them, which might, coincidentally be a good time for reflection on your part as to why you feel a compelling need to make everyone live according to your standards. Technically, prostitution is illegal in Thailand. Maybe your wrath is misplaced and you should engage the Thai government.Realistically, anybody with US$50 can participate; many do and not all are old.

argument #4: prostitution is a downward cycle of drugs and helplessness

Entirely possible, but also not entirely guaranteed> If you have lived in Thailand long enough you would know that Thai people are really good at compartmentalizing things

argument #5: human trafficking is a crime against humanity

Absolutely. I would encourage you to protest against the genocide being perpetrating against the Rohingya of Myanmmar

e

That makes me laugh. "Rejected by western women" western women are bigger,faster,stronger,smarter,better and most of all have more rights than western men. Ask the 5 separated fathers who suicide every day in asstralia. Regected by western women,who wants them can have them . And goooooooood luck lmfao

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Of course its not nice.

I can somehow relate to thai's getting fed up looking at foreigners acting like they own the place, old guys with young thai girls under their arms, getting insanely drunk, treating girls like trash and causing problems acting like idiots allover the place.

This statement typifies lots of Thai men. Of course, it is their country and they can do whatever the hell they want.

Were it not for tourism, the Thai economy would be in a recession: ft.com The absence of a short-term nosedive for tourism saves the underachieving Thai economy from even worse performance. GDP expanded just 2.8 percent year-on-year in the first half, far behind the 4 to 5 percent growth posted by Thailand's Asean peers.