dougkos

Everybody,

All this information is well & good providing that one has ONE "standard" upon which to base it. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!! DO NOT MIX STANDARDS!!!!

Also, it appears, from the info that dougkas has provided, that the current rating of kilowatt hour meters is more to do with your tarriffs than the current rating of the meter. I think this system will (hopefully) fade fast in Thailand. Sensibly, kilowatt hour meters are not chosen for the tarriff...they are chosen based upon the current rating of the installations supply current. In most places in the world, a supply is issued in accordance to "standard" demand ie 80 amps in Australia. Therefore, the kilowatt hour meter used in Australia, is capable of handling a "through" current of 80 amps. Consequently, I still do not understand the 15/45 rating of Thai meters. Does it mean a tarriff of no greater than 15 amp but a possible max current of 45 amps? Can somebody help me to "definitively" clear up this point?

Chownah, please do not forget that if you are going to use two separate supplies, that you must have a separate MEN link for each supply, which shall be installed into the Main Distribution Board of each installation.

Again, the most important conductor is the EARTH conductor, the 2nd most important conductor is the Neutral conductor & the least important conductor is the Active.

Don't forget, the MEN system of earthing is the PRIMARY DEFENSE against electrical shock. The secondary defense is an RCD...USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH A PROPERLY EARTHED INSTALLATION!!!!. You will be foolish to rely solely upon RCD's to protect you & your loved ones.

hi

I agree with you elkangorito regarding 1 standard,the info I have supplied is from PEA via the "copper" org http://www.copper.org.sg/publications/spot...003/story1.html

regarding earthing/grounding.

I dont think that the tariff system with the 5 amps will change its all to do with what the consumer can afford to pay, it happens a lot in 3rd world countries, in zimbabwe we restricted the consumer by means of a load limiter (mcb) different amp sizes and he paid a fixed monthly sum accordingly, if he tried to put on extra load the mcb would trip, we never installed meters thou.

tried to find out about the 15/45 nothing so far, I would rather say its 5-upwards until the auth says you need a 3 phase supply (not sure thou)

dougie

sukit.ppt

".................

Chowan- in regards to suppling a ground/earth wire to your sockets it has got to be done there was a directive saying from Oct 2003 you had to supply it. http://www.copper.org.sg/pdf/BW%20Brochure...(20030519)1.pdf

..........."

I checked out your link and it seems to be some promotional material for a company whose head office is in Singapore. I didn't read it all but it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the electrical wiring requirements in Thailand....or was your comment actually just a joke.?

hi

if you scrolled down to page 4 on fig.2 you would see where it is mentioned, there is another link regarding it i had seen before thought i had saved it on my comp. still trying to search for it.

the home page of copper is http://www.copper.org.sg/publications/publications_list.html

have a look at it.

why would you think i was making a joke?

have a look at the attachment this is what you are meant to do during your installation and after

I did find it, thank you very much. I'll ask the local electrical administration and see if this applies to my village.

hi chowan

ur welcome, if your village falls under the PEA auth. then it should apply

http://www.copper.org.sg/publications/spot...003/story1.html

if you have time go into copper home page look in our publications click on "spotlight" look at the back issues regarding the different topics but mainly on earthing/grounding.

sukit.ppt

".................

Chowan- in regards to suppling a ground/earth wire to your sockets it has got to be done there was a directive saying from Oct 2003 you had to supply it. http://www.copper.org.sg/pdf/BW%20Brochure...(20030519)1.pdf

..........."

I checked out your link and it seems to be some promotional material for a company whose head office is in Singapore. I didn't read it all but it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the electrical wiring requirements in Thailand....or was your comment actually just a joke.?

hi

if you scrolled down to page 4 on fig.2 you would see where it is mentioned, there is another link regarding it i had seen before thought i had saved it on my comp. still trying to search for it.

the home page of copper is http://www.copper.org.sg/publications/publications_list.html

have a look at it.

why would you think i was making a joke?

have a look at the attachment this is what you are meant to do during your installation and after

Thanks guys

After e-mailing the 'big chief' I am getting some quick warrenty work done. Shouldnt really go over the local peoples head but progress was slow. to stop, local 'engineer' just sat on his arse all day.

So today someone came and looked at all the defects.

with regard to electrical..I asked him how do I know that the earth is any good? he said he would check it tomorrow. Please how should he do this?

Can the impedence only be checked by passing a current to earth? I cant remember from my college days?

With regard to appliances the washer and fridge are three pin..just the hoover is two pin

Appreciate a quice reply on checking earth.

I'm told that the rod is buried beneath the floor tiles. i can see the earth cable at the dist board, joined with the circuit earths but then it just disappears somewhere.

Thanks

You really should have the rod accessable so that when the wires corrode you can refurbish the connection. I would install another full service rod and cable which is accessable for inspection and repair.....at least that is what I would do.

doesn't really matter and is a minor safety issue involving the inaccessable wiring inside the appliance).

Tell that to someone who has turned the switch off on a lamp and come into contact with the bulb socket which is hot because the switch cut neutral because the plug was not polarized. Yeh, I know he would be dumb not to unplug the lamp but I suspect you can imagine a few friends who might have this happen. I'm sure I have done it at some point. Multiply that by the population and polarization starts to make sense.

Three part reply.

1. I'd be glad to tell them, just post their email address and I'll inform them!

2. I said "most" modern US appliances...not "all".

3. I think you will find that "most" modern lamps in the US are constructed so that you can not touch the socket unless the light bulb is removed. Thus the situation you suggest is not possible with "most" modern US lamps.

Thanks...not easy to e-mail the company

Would you please send e-mail to me

You can use [email protected]

So how to test earth

So how to test RCD I guess you short to earth via a high resistance..but must need some tioming mechanism. Guess there must be equipment for this..not readily available here I guess.

Good idea to put in a second earth rod. I have done that previously in an old house I owned. Realised I needed it when I sawed through the skirting and a cable behind it. Lost 6 teeth from my saw but supply was still live!

All I did was drill a hole about 1m+, deep hammered the rod in and attached an earth cable. When i rented the house out later an electrician checked it and said ok..cant remember how he did it I also put a new box in with all ccts on RCD.

The guys at work told me how to do it..I worked in Powerstation all my life..more experience on HV than house wiring though.

thanks guys

hi john45

regarding testing your earth spike you will have to have a earth resistance tester there are different models on the market now, there was the 3-4 wire tester plus earth spikes to test

http://www.hoytmeter.com/earthreslkup/earthreslkup.html

or you can use the clamp tester http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/M9810.htm

examples as given they will also tell you how to do it

regarding testing your rcd you will have to use a proper tester http://www.pat-services.co.uk/default.asp?prodidsingle=148

dont know how available they are in thailand but should be able to lol your electrical contractor will have done all his tests ready to be given to the inspector before he switches the power on.

there is many different types of testers out there these are just given as a example

dougie

Elkangorito,

Yes, I will have two meters and two panels and two electic bills...and, of course the new panel will have a ground electrode to meet the local reqirements just like all panels have...it will be, afterall a new service. The only thing unusual which I will be doing is running circuits from this new service into a house that has wiring already from another service...and I will be careful to keep them totally seperated electrically. Thank you for your input.

Chownah

hi guys

thought i would make a post regarding this topic, i agree with crossy and elkangorito on a lot of the issues raised.

Chowan- in regards to suppling a ground/earth wire to your sockets it has got to be done there was a directive saying from Oct 2003 you had to supply it. http://www.copper.org.sg/pdf/BW%20Brochure...(20030519)1.pdf

what height are your poles at? is it insulated cables you have installed or bare wires?

dougie

Oh dear!! What have we here?

Ok Chownah, your idea is ok but how it is implemented, is another matter.

I'm assuming, from what you have said, that you will have 2 "SEPARATELY METERED SUPPLIES". If this is incorrect, please say so. Allow me to explain...if you have 2 separate supplies coming into your property, they SHOULD be treated as 2 separate installations with individual meters thus you will receive 2 power bills...one for each installation. Is this correct?

If not, then the power to your NEW installation MUST come from your Main Distribution Board as a "sub circuit".

Also, IF the new installation is a separate supply, then an MEN link MUST be installed in this new installation.

Further, as Crossy said, if you experience dimming of lights etc when motors cut in, then you need "fatter" cables. This is a direct consequence of voltage drop due to long distance of cables with maximum current demand. Basically, this means that the cable size from the transformer is not big enough for your requirements. As an example & contrary to Lopburi's ideas, 3 phase supply is available if you give a reason. A mate of my'n got 3 phase supply because he was using 3 phase motors for a fish/prawn farm. The supply authority installed a 3 phase 50mm squared (aluminium) supply as a result of his request. I dare say that he had to prove his requirement. Nonetheless, he has a large amount of power at his disposal. I do not know anything about this 5/15 or 15/45 amp meter stuff. What the he_l does it mean? Normally, supply is indicated by demand current. ie an 80 amp supply is fed by minimum 16mm squared copper aerial conductors. The kwH meter reflects the cable size. In Thailand, it may be different & until someone can give me some diffinitive information about this, I will not think otherwise. Kilowatt hour meters are rated for their "through put" current, since they are in series with the line current. So, what does 5/15 mean? By the way, unless this can be answered with "provable" information, I will not believe it.

With regard to "poles", they are not the issue. The issue is cable size. Bamboo is ok. It just degrades very quickly due to ingress of ants etc. If they have appropritae electrical insulators upon them, all is ok untill nature quickly degrades them.

Anyway, if you plan to foolishly apply an earthless installation, GOOD LUCK!!! I will never endorse this.

Just going back to a previous statement, YOU MUST HAVE AN MEN SYSTEM INSTALLED AS A "PRIMARY" SAFETY SYSTEM. Without this, you & your family are at a much greater risk of electrocution. Don't forget that the SECONDARY SYSTEM is an RCD (earth leakage protection device). If you've read the previous posts, you will know the dangers of relying totally upon the "RCD only" system. I will be happy to reiterate should you have forgotten.

EATHING IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU MUST DO. THIS INCLUDES ALL METAL CLAD APPLIANCES. DOUBLE INSULATED APPLIANCES LIKE TV'S ARE NOT A PROBLEM. YOU MUST USE 3 PIN POWER OUTLETS. IF IN DOUBT, EARTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hi elkangorito

I think what is being refered here regarding the 5/15amp etc is down to the consumer tariffs, the consumer gets what he can afford (or thinks he can)

http://www.pea.co.th/eweb/r_rate1.htm

hope this clears up some things

dougie

hi had a bully unfo had a wee accident beautiful thing it was

worked first time for me got pin straight away

thanks