sly2kusa

A better question for you sir is why would you want to beat your Thai landlord or taxi driver? This is their Country - they can do as they see fit when it comes to commerce. That is a legitimate reason for the courts (if you feel so inclined), but not for frivolous nonsense like some scumbag trying to counterfeit local merchants, and getting his ass kicked for it.

Ahh... so it's OK for Thais to physically assault a foreigner who they believe has cheated them, because it's "their Country -- they can do as they see fit." But it's not OK in your book for a foreigner to do the same to a Thai who has cheated them in commerce like for rentals or transport?

Bottom line is, you're presuming the Indian guy is guilty, merely on the word of some vendors -- not on the decision of any kind of justice system like the police and the criminal courts.

And you're granting a Thai mob the right to hand out punishment for unproven offenses -- when if the guy is really guilty, he ought to be thrown in jail, not beaten in the street.

That's what a civil society does... But obviously, you favor mob justice and street beatings over any form of civil society.

My God - put words in people's mouths much? I have no idea if the Indian guy is guilty or whether it was a Thai mob or not, I just think that if dumbass people got their asses kicked a little more often, for being idiots, there's probably a fair chance there would be fewer idiots.

At least there were years ago...Before everyone lost their minds and starting calling evil good and good evil.

None of the situations you are describing are ones I would ever engage in like that (those are just day-to-day realities of being a foreigner in a foreign land). I'm talking about wanton behaviors that just undermine any form of honesty that can be tolerated (such as the story we find ourselves commenting on).

Ahhh.... so... you wouldn't want to be a foreigner in a foreign land beating one-on-one on a Thai landlord or taxi driver who's ripped you off for 500 or even 30,000 baht.

But it's fine by you for a group of Thai street vendors to deliver a beating to a single foreigner in a foreign land tourist who they believe was passing fake 500 baht bills?

Quite an odd sense of justice you have...

A better question for you sir is why would you want to beat your Thai landlord or taxi driver? This is their Country - they can do as they see fit when it comes to commerce. That is a legitimate reason for the courts (if you feel so inclined), but not for frivolous nonsense like some scumbag trying to counterfeit local merchants, and getting his ass kicked for it.

And actually I just have a fair amount of common sense. Not surprising that you take the extreme degree here for what I was saying, but that's typical of most who don't see any value in knowing how to stand up for themselves.

I'm not saying that complete anarchy is the way - but I think if you determine that some asshat just ripped you off, you should be able to beat his ass without there being a frivolous lawsuit filed on the scumbag's behalf.

Hmmm.... maybe you have a point here... Let's see how this would go for you in Thailand...

--Your Thai landlord refuses to return your rental security deposit when you move out... No problem, just march on over to his home and beat his ass..

--You're coming home from Suvanabhumi and the Thai taxi driver refuses to use the meter and instead wants to charge you about double the correct fare... Hey, have the driver pull over to the side of the road, and when he stops, beat his ass.

--You go to Thai Immigration and the officer there want to charge you a fee for providing a service that's supposed to have no charge... Easy to fix that, stand up, walk over to the desk and deliver a big time ass beating....

Can you count in minutes just how long it would be before you'd either be thrown in jail or dead?

Your point is well taken, but discretion is a must for what I am talking about. None of the situations you are describing are ones I would ever engage in like that (those are just day-to-day realities of being a foreigner in a foreign land). I'm talking about wanton behaviors that just undermine any form of honesty that can be tolerated (such as the story we find ourselves commenting on).

Granted - you would have to know your limits in any given situation. I guess I'm just lucky to have grown up in a different time, when common sense was more than just a catch phrase in some 3rd rate business school's Ethics course.

Do you even realize that you just described something like 87.53% of all official dealings with thai "authority"?

No - I didn't, but thanks for the stat.

I'm not saying that complete anarchy is the way - but I think if you determine that some asshat just ripped you off, you should be able to beat his ass without there being a frivolous lawsuit filed on the scumbag's behalf.

Hmmm.... maybe you have a point here... Let's see how this would go for you in Thailand...

--Your Thai landlord refuses to return your rental security deposit when you move out... No problem, just march on over to his home and beat his ass..

--You're coming home from Suvanabhumi and the Thai taxi driver refuses to use the meter and instead wants to charge you about double the correct fare... Hey, have the driver pull over to the side of the road, and when he stops, beat his ass.

--You go to Thai Immigration and the officer there want to charge you a fee for providing a service that's supposed to have no charge... Easy to fix that, stand up, walk over to the desk and deliver a big time ass beating....

Can you count in minutes just how long it would be before you'd either be thrown in jail or dead?

Your point is well taken, but discretion is a must for what I am talking about. None of the situations you are describing are ones I would ever engage in like that (those are just day-to-day realities of being a foreigner in a foreign land). I'm talking about wanton behaviors that just undermine any form of honesty that can be tolerated (such as the story we find ourselves commenting on).

Granted - you would have to know your limits in any given situation. I guess I'm just lucky to have grown up in a different time, when common sense was more than just a catch phrase in some 3rd rate business school's Ethics course.

I don't like the beating up. A little roughing up is OK, but blows and kicks to the head and mob justice usually gets out of hand. Better to hold the guy, call the police, try and find out where the bad notes are coming from. Nothing wrong with putting a good scare into the fellow, especially since it sounds like he tried it several times over a day or more, so it seems likely he knew he had fake notes

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why not, he will think twice about selecting the markets again. Summary jurisiction has its merits as far as I am concerned. The Police will still have the

opportunity to interrogate him further and after a dose of summary justice, he might be more forthcoming in his admissions!!!

Passing fake money is a very very long prison sentence, on par with murder almost, he is going to be a very sorry Indian if true,although here it wont really matter if true or not, he is down for the long haul but he should look on the bright side, he will speak fluent Thai if he gets out alive.

Why not vigilante justice? Because sometimes the person is NOT guilty or the vigilante's trial and sentence and punishment don't fit the crime. Mobs can get out of hand quickly.

Most reasonable people (at least in the past decades here in the US) were fair minded when it came to such decisions. I'm not saying that complete anarchy is the way - but I think if you determine that some asshat just ripped you off, you should be able to beat his ass without there being a frivolous lawsuit filed on the scumbag's behalf.

I definitely agree with you, and in all honesty - it's not an unreasonable amount of money that is being asked for as capital for the company. I just wanted to point it out (since to this point it had not been mentioned).

Coming from the sue happy Country of the United States (where a story a few years ago boasted about some thieving low-life who broke into someone's house and broke his leg trying to escape, was able to receive damages from a lower court for his injuries - while committing an <deleted> crime), I find it amusing to see that the press reports the administering of an ass whoopin' on a vagrant who was trying to stiff these vendors. Good for them, because he got what he deserved, and then got even more by being arrested for it.

Frankly - I think you should be able to whoop someones ass if you catch them slippin' like that. You might find it offensive, but if things went back to the way they were years ago (without worry of being sued for whoppin' someones ass for being an ass), there would be less of this type of crime. It would never completely eradicate it (because there is always someone stupid enough to do anything), but it would detour a lot of it.

How many reservoirs do they have there in Bangkok? Just curious to know if they have any or what their dam systems are like.

One other little tidbit I have found out about (with regard to the Treaty of Amity for us Americans) is that you have to have at least 1 million bht in the bank to qualify (and in some cases - 2 million).

I understand the restriction on 'Domestic trade in agricultural products' to be something that does not affect the ability to produce the goods (such as a fish farm or organic fertilizers such as worm castings and such), but does anyone have a better definition of this? It's the last in the list of restrictions for the American company in Thailand.

I realize this is really pissing some people off, and I normally would not classify Pancakes, Waffles, or Omelets as fast/junk food either, but from the restaurants mentioned in this thread - they are of total garbage quality, and do nothing for the consumer other than to hook them onto sugary crap that is full of trans fats, and other addicting ingredients, that they can afford.

Horse manure. The pancakes, waffles and omelets from the restaurants mentioned in this thread, are little different nutritionally than that from more expensive restaurants and there is probably little difference in quality either. The only exceptions would be the "desert" pancakes and waffles, which don't do much for me anyway. IMO, they ARE overly sweet.

You are missing the point...It's CHEAPer, than getting the same from a better restaurant.

Crap food is always cheaper. I have often wondered if places like McDonald's aren't in bed with all the overgrown Pharm companies out there...to keep the cycle of business booming (because let's face it - if you live a healthier life, you don't need as many products and services from them).

Don't blame US fast food for obesity - blame the lack of willpower and the ignorance of the consumers.

In the US, many people are overweight across all races (B/W/Mexicans) and span many societal strata, but most of the grossly morbidly obese tend to be the poor & under-educated apathetic losers unfortunates.

The fact that garbage food (from places like the ones in this thread) is more appealing to those in (as you put it) the 'poor & under-educated, apathetic unfortunates' category, is not by accident. These companies are not stupid and know exactly what they are doing - putting out crap food for cheap, that is horrible for your body.

I realize this is really pissing some people off, and I normally would not classify Pancakes, Waffles, or Omelets as fast/junk food either, but from the restaurants mentioned in this thread - they are of total garbage quality, and do nothing for the consumer other than to hook them onto sugary crap that is full of trans fats, and other addicting ingredients, that they can afford. So, to a certain degree, you are correct - it becomes a battle to not consume the stuff that is bad for you. However - if you are someone in poverty who does not always know where there next meal is coming from, and if you can buy it cheaper, and keep yourself fed, and satisfied for a longer duration - then it's not hard to see why people would choose that option (especially those who do not have as much as others).

I hope none of these companies ever makes it to the LOS, and if they do - I hope they are boycotted, and fail miserably.

Excuse me for pointing out, that a lot of the local foods Thais eat are just as bad or worse for their health than any "fast food" imported from the U.S.

Stuff fried in old palm oil, fermented fish sauce, sugared everything, sticky jasmine white rice, raw fish with parasites that cause liver cancer, etc etc...

And some of you seem determined to bash pancakes, waffles and omelettes, which are neither fast food nor junk food, either in popular terms or based on their nutritional makeup.

And neither are they American in origin, for all the U.S. bashers out there. History suggests that omelettes originated with the French, although today there are native versions in a lot of different countries. Likewise, pancakes may have originated with the Greeks, but again there are localized versions in many countries under varying names.

So how about knowing what you're talking about, before hitting the "post" key.

While us Yanks appreciate the sentiment (those of us still living stateside and in LOS), and appreciate the historical value of food origins - we are speaking about American Companies whose food is about as healthy for you and eating a 2 day old turd from the toilet bowl.

I agree with you that there is already a lot of Thai food that is bad for you, but why make it worse with a different variety of food that is equally bad for you? Have you ever eaten at one of these places? I can assure you that the pancakes are not the original Greek ones, nor the Omelets anything like what the French came up with. They are loaded full of trans fats and oils that serve to do nothing more than expand your waist line and the pocketbooks of the conglomerates who run them.

Remember this conversation in 5 or 10 years (if these restaurants successfully go over to LOS), and see what the society looks like then.

I know how much I missed certain places when I just moved to different States here in the US, but really - do you guys want the obesity problems that the US has right now? That is what those foods will bring to the LOS if they franchise out there.

different girl surely

100% same girl and don't call me surely.

EDIT for clarity: In truth I had developed a bit of a crush on Pla, I liked her personality and she was excellent company, smart, funny, polite etc. My personal circumstances prevented me from pursing a relationship with her although I almost certainly would have done so had things been different in my life at the time, (yes, even though she was a "bar girl", whatever that may mean).

chaing mai - thank you again for your input on this. Forgive me for having continued with this topic after you already shared the things you did, but another person had claimed to have dated one of Pla's 'mates', and so naturally I asked if he would be willing to see if he could get in touch with any of them to shed additional / new light onto this question. It went nowhere, but does not detour me from what I said about what you had to share earlier (and especially again). It gives me peace knowing that she is in fact alive and well and living a better life now.

P.S. I can understand how you would have fallen for her - she is a lovely gal, and has a fun sense of humor and just all around kind heart type of person. Who would not love someone like that?

The film was about as convincing as the good woman of Bangkok- just acting out a part.

Well - it would have been nice for those of us not in the know to have heard it directly from someone who is.

Thanks anyway...

I used to'go out' with her mate who worked at the same bar, Pla borrowed money off her for an abortion on soi 12, of course she was a sex worker. Can't really understand why the OP is obsessed by what happened somebody he never even met.

I don't think I would call it an obsession as much as it is an interest. The story left so much to be desired in the end, and all I (and a lot of others) want to know is if it was all smoke and mirrors by Jordan Clark (regarding her death) or if she truly did in fact die.

You don't need to know someone personally to have compassion for them. The documentary introduced us to someone we all hoped had better days ahead of her, and I believe I am not alone when I say that most (if not all) of us hope that Pla made it out of her situation alive and well. There are so many conflicting reports in various forums of this being the case, but as with this thread - they are only simple mentions with no real evidence (and like I said in the beginning - a person should have full rights to their privacy, which may be why Pla could still be alive and well, and simply not speaking. She has every right to do that, but it also leaves people wondering if perhaps she hasn't spoken before now because she no longer can).

Is there any chance you are still in contact with people who know/knew Pla, that would be willing to let us know the truth?

Where can you watch it? YouTube?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes - the link is in one of my replies on the first page of this thread.

To add a bit of my reseach knowledge.

Back in 2002 the Sukumwit scene was very lucrative. The baht had crashed and their were many Western tourists and not all sexpats. They came in part for the "amazing " night scene; very common to see a husband and wife from the West enjoying a night out in the bars. Fun time; I would be there with my wife.

Yes you bought a lady a drink, nice to have a hostess look after you and tell you that, "You hansom man!".

I was, as is obvious already a Bangkok expat at the time of Jordan's ego trip.

Now today; few holidaying Westerners around Sukumwit. Some other nationalities, but not the point of this post.

The bars are almost dead; Nana in particular. Cowboy, ,the new haunt of the sexpats.

I still have a fondness for Nana, mainly for nostalgic reasons and because I am known there, so safer than many visitors!

The girs (ladyboys, many, spot the difference) working in the Go Go bars get a flat rate of 300 baht a night, minimum wage, plus bonus for topless. They also earn by getting guys to buy drinks and lady drinks. A cut of that goes to them as a bonus. Most will not go out with a John if he is in the least suspicious; if they CHOOSE to then a bar fine must be paid, the girl gets a bonus for that.

Outside the bar , what she charges is up to her.

So a Pla type now , has a minimum wage plus bonuses which in good times can be substantial.

Give me a film crew and a budget and I will make a documentary, but it would not be very exciting or groundbreaking.

Just , as it is, in Sukumwit, Bangkok.

Other areas I do not know well , so cannot comment with in depth of knowledge.

Pattaya I used to know, but that was before a certain nation of mafia took over. It was, in 2002, much the same as Bangkok, basic daily wage plus extras. Daily wage as most could not be trusted to come to work every day. Find a rich holiday maker and off on a tour of Thailand, back later.

Could write the book, but already written and not by Jordan!

buhi - Jordan indicates at the end of his Documentary that Checkpoint Charles was now closed, and that Pla's friends were scattered all along various places in the Red Light district. I have heard the names 'M' and 'O' in the past, and I wonder if any of her friends are still around? They might be the best last chance to finally put to rest if Pla is in fact deceased or not.

I wish there was someone out here with some tangibles on what actually happened. I have a hard time believing something like this went unreported (given the fact that she was the subject of a Documentary).

Guys - thank you for the comments (even the sarcastic, snarky ones). I understand the point of the Documentary, and believe me when I say that I have gone well beyond the garden variety Google searches on what really happened to Pla. The reason I posted this hear was in the hopes of finding people in Thailand who honestly know what happened (either from those who knew her or are truly connected to the story and have facts).

Regardless - thanks for the feedback, and 'buhi'...Where is your article? I would love to give it a read.

I know - I know...This is probably a tired, old story, but I have yet to find out what really happened to the girl who was the focus of the Documentary - Pla.

Jordan Clark claims at the end that 7 days after he left Thailand (back around 2002 or there abouts) that Pla was found dead. He says that all he could find out was that they cause of death was supposed 'heart failure'. The reason this bothers me so much is that Pla was 19 at the time of the Documentary, and there are reports of her still being alive and well.

A person's privacy is truly a thing to value, but does anyone know if she truly did die or not? If she did - was it truly due to a heart condition? Or was she murdered? Suicide?

Sorry if this comes off as a nosy Farang (not even living in Thailand wanting to know), but I just want to know if she did in fact die, if a true investigation into her death was ever done or not. If she truly is alive and well (and God I pray she is), then that is the best possible outcome from this tragic story.