the gent

An extraordinary thread which is beginning to tell us more about the range of prejudice among posters than perhaps anything else.

I too was surprised by Drummond's correspondence to the newspaper. As far as I am aware he hasn't resorted to this tactic previously but then I suppose he hasn't encountered such poisonous drivel in the quantity that appears in this forum before and in penning his cri de coeur he was simply taking a swipe at the' expat resident ' redneck morons responsible.

Also, I suspect the odd attack upon his integrity, as exampled by Battyman (sic) and his simpering acolytes, is motivated by a malice born out of inferiority that cannot be assuaged elsewhere.

Just to emphasise the point, Drummond is a consummate professional riven with integrity and a compassion that raises him to a level many hacks can only aspire to. Anyone who knows him will attest to this and his reputation among his peers is deservedly high.

The issue under debate now seems to have shifted from the obvious culpability of the wretched policeman to the character of the surviving victim in much the same way as a rape victim's morality is scrutinised in a feeble attempt to shift the focus of blame from the rapist and is just as unedyfying. I have not the appetite to counter this disgraceful argument since its proponents seem beyond any reason and can only tip my hat to messrs Arkady,Damian and Boo among others whose stamina in keeping the flag of commonsense flying is one of the few redeeming features of the thread.

Am I alone in having reached the conclusion most smokers tend to be more entertaining company and generally an interesting bunch of folk more tolerant at almost every level than the average non smoking joe? Just an observation really but has some empirical integrity, don't you think?

Of course smoking is a disgusting habit and the addict risks an earlier demise as a consequence but denying them the opportunity to indulge whilst having a drink is really quite cruel. To do so on the tenuous basis that passive smoking is somehow injurious adds insult to this insufferable victimisation since the scientific research supporting such a thesis is every bit as fanciful as the fashionable nonsense that mankind's production of CO2 causes global warming. And for the authorities in Bangkok to suggest that such a prohibition would be beneficial to health is really quite absurd when it is common knowledge that anyone living within 100 metres of Sukhumvit is doomed anyway by their inhalation of the noxious vehicle fumes spewed out without any restriction.

Does the prohibition also include cabaret acts involving fumatory pudenda? Gosh, Thailand is really changing........Long Gun smokes no more it seems, alas.

My earlier fear that parity with the Euro was on the cards may well be realised sooner than I thought. Oh bugger!

If it is right that the Pai police are actually considering prosecuting the girl for resisting arrest then it must surely be time for the Canadian embassy to up their profile if any sort of justice is to be done.

They should issue a press release that the cost of her medical bills and any legal representation will be wholly underwritten by them and disclosing that a formal protest has been lodged at the MFA complaining about the conduct of the case which perhaps should be transferred immediately to the DSI.

The current farce is verging upon the obscene.

The Thai should not be let off the hook on this one otherwise anyone anywhere could be considered fair game. No amount of provocation by unarmed albeit drunken youngsters would justify the mindless slaughter and attempted murder by that wretched excuse for a law enforcement officer.

This thread has a somewhat misleading title in that there was no such proposal in the first place.

The situation regarding who is entitled to free NHS treatment is set out in a statutory instrument, The National Health Service ( Charges for Overseas Visitors ) Regulations 1989 in which the principle that a person qualified for receipt is defined as a person ordinarily resident in the UK. There is a raft of exceptions but I suspect that most folk voluntarily resident in Thailand would not qualify for inclusion.

There is however a shaft of light amidst the gloom engulfing those who have just discovered that citizenship and NI contributions do not alone confer free treatment on demand.

Essentially, those in receipt of a state pension who have spent at least 10 years continuously at some point in the UK or 10 years in Crown Service employment may receive free treatment provided the need for it arose during their visit. Realistically, for example, a recently diagnosed cancer sufferer unable to meet the cost of treatment abroad could return home and approach a GP complaining of feeling unwell shortly after arrival.......

Admittedly, not much solace for those still in their prime but a crumb of comfort to the long term retired perhaps.

I dont know what side the gent is actually arguing for!

I for one think professional forensic evidence is needed in Thailand for a case like this to ensure the police dont cover things up and pressure witnesses. The evidence could contradict them even if people would not.

Damian

Damian, the crime scene was in all likelihood not preserved and the evidential value accordingly corrupted. What will doubtless follow will be a pantomime re-enactment in lieu of forensic investigation.Forensic analysis without a methodology acquiring evidence forming that analysis is worthless.

Pornthip is a voice in the wilderness that is the Thai judicial system.

It is truly an amazing fact that any substantive stay in Thailand may generally result in the resident losing significant perspective to a degree that commonsense displayed in their former, generally, western societies is no longer available and their thinking begins to resemble that of the typical, cognitively challenged, Somchai whose dottiness is occasionally peddled as the epitome of Thai culture and therefore must be respected to the point murder is somehow sanctioned. Kat's post verges upon this phenomenon and has an echo throughout the forum.

Irregardless of the social disposition of the young Carly and her chums, the lethality of the policeman's actions would suggest a disproportionate response to the most mundane of public order offences allegedly committed by the victims.To anyone with the meanest of intelligence and the most passing of interest in what might constitute the most basic rule of law, gunning down young people in these circumstances is not only wrong according to any ethic but is in fact a crime that in any right thinking society would result in the policeman's incarceration for a very long time.

That some posters actually contend the victims brought this upon themselves and therefore must bear a degree of culpability is quite astonishing and probably indicative of the impoverished intellect demonstrated by the utterly cynical police regime prevailing in Thailand.

Andrew Drummond is a famous sensationalist

And the basis for this pronouncement would be?

Stupid comment at best and quite insupportable.

The chap is a first rate journo and a great ally to those who have had need of his help.

In terms of credibility one can generally dispense with the salt when reading his work.

Yeah, the male strip clubs are a riot.

I know a place in Patters......... well not really a strip show, but gay gogo lads are hilarious. Not sure if they are trying to be funny, but me/gf were rather amused.

Ummm, and whose idea was it to venture therein, yours or the " gf " ?

So was I.

Well, there you gogo it seems....

.....or should that be jojo?

The success of the perceived independence of the BoE reflects the fiscal strength of the economy inherited by Brown in 1997. Lawson had engineered a recovery from the mid 90s doldrums and departed office leaving the Brute with a 20 billion current account surplus which was further enhanced by a comprehensive spending review of public expenditure, a review which Brown continued and earned him his reputation for prudence which in reality was simply a case of borrowed robes previously worn by Lawson. To a certain extent this ' drag act ' masked his innate incompetence, as manifested by the catastrophic raid on pension funds and sale of gold reserves at firesale prices, and he still manages to engender confidence because of it although most pundits now finally see him for the buffoon he actually is.

The problem is we now have a deficit of 20 billion, an inflation rate of over 4% >, a collapse of the banking system, an economy entirely supported by the illusion one's property is one's own personal bank and an imminent recession threatening the US. The recipe could hardly be more exciting in terms of currency trading and my own view is that the heralded move to increasingly lower interest rates will consign the pound in the long term to parity with the Euro. Avoiding recession is held to be paramount but the devaluing of the pound at this stage can only be a quick fix equivalent to protecting an alcoholic from the DTs by giving him a shot of brandy. Still, in the post monetarist world such solutions are evidently de rigeur although it is interesting to note that good old steady Eddie George now regrets that he did the very same thing in 2003.

I do sympathise with you Longway given your plans but inflation is the way to go it seems and the pound has to go south. Nevertheless, the Thai export based economy will also suffer in the forthcoming world recession and so the pound's fall may well be cushioned to prevent retirement penury.

Still, as long as Gordo wins his election I'm sure it will all be worth it.

If this happened in the UK and there were witnesses - the Police Complaints Commisssion would act on this.

Of course they would have acted on it by rolling about on the floor laughing!

In London, a man – Brazilian I believe – was shot because police thought he was acting suspiciously. Police was cleared. Story here.

Bulmercke is still alive.

--

Maestro

The two events are hardly analogous unless of course the redoubtable Bulmercke had been under armed surveillance the previous two hours and was suspected of involvement in armed insurrection.

I suppose we shouldn't rule out the possibility.........

The only issue of real interest yet to be resolved is which way will the Golden Clown jump. Accept the forthcoming recession for the inevitable it is and maintain interest rates a la Paul Volcker or trash the pound and hope the debt driven consumer frenzy of the past 3 years can be extended until after the next election. Reducing the interest rate this month suggests he would be happy with the latter.

The BoE sets the rates, not the Golden Clown.

Ahh, presumably you subscribe to the notion that Mervyn and his chums' decisions are made independently of the Scottish brute.

Oh well, each to their own I suppose

Is your level of condescension always in inverse proportion to the amount hard facts you can provide?

I stated a fact, if you can disprove what I said then demonstrate your source. Put up or shut up.

Quite how you construed condescension from that post is somewhat puzzling but one supposes you have your reasons.

Please don't be offended if I decline your challenge. It's not because I am unwilling but, akin to corruption, proving a negative is notoriously difficult and if one is only persuaded by " facts " then a consensus is unlikely.

Nevertheless, one should not overlook the "fact" that the MPC comprises in addition to the BoE staff four members appointed by the Chancellor. Given that the control of inflation is the primary concern of the MPC and the common knowledge that the rate is currently in the ascendant, it does seem odd to the interested observer that their last decision was in " fact " to reduce the interest rate, a mechanism not widely known for its efficacy in controlling rising inflation. The excuse for this decision was clearly a departure from their remit and evidently an attempt to increase liquidity to ease the consequences of profligate lending. The success of this remains to be seen but what is manifestly apparent is its effect upon the pound which fell.

Mmmm. Now, which politician has most to gain from a prolonging of the debt driven consumer bubble?

Like they say, if you're not for me you're against me and poor old Merv is just beginning to find out what life is like under the cosh of the Caledonian crusher.

Independence? I don't think so but everyone is free to cling to whichever illusion conjured up as " fact " they may choose.

The only issue of real interest yet to be resolved is which way will the Golden Clown jump. Accept the forthcoming recession for the inevitable it is and maintain interest rates a la Paul Volcker or trash the pound and hope the debt driven consumer frenzy of the past 3 years can be extended until after the next election. Reducing the interest rate this month suggests he would be happy with the latter.

The BoE sets the rates, not the Golden Clown.

Ahh, presumably you subscribe to the notion that Mervyn and his chums' decisions are made independently of the Scottish brute.

Oh well, each to their own I suppose

Doubtful this would have seen the light of day had the graft emanated from the UK, a country whose culture has a long tradition of accommodating corruption whenever it suited vested interests, excluding the taxpayer's of course. The BAE/ Saudi bribery scandal and the unwillingness of the government to prosecute is perhaps the best example and one that has provoked the USA to frustration and anger.

Whatever one says about the yanks, they have an instinct for lancing boils that elsewhere would be allowed to fester and should be commended accordingly.

Of course, in Thailand one should also appreciate that adverse public accountability is very bad form and the height of rudeness. The poor woman's embarrassment must be a terrible thing and quite unwarranted particularly since the acquisition of wealth by any Thai is simply the celebration of one's good karma.

Mortgage-interest costs consumed 20.6 percent of first-time buyers' incomes in October, the most since 1991, according to London-based Council of Mortgage Lenders. Consumer confidence fell to the lowest since at least 2004 last month, according to a Dec. 5 report compiled by Nationwide Building Society, Britain's fourth-biggest mortgage lender.

``Mortgage debt as a share of disposable income is even higher in the U.K. than in the U.S. and the country has an even more over-valued housing market,'' Woo said. ``The twin pillars of the U.K. economy, housing and banking, are coming under further pressure.''

I cant see the property market crashing, there is under supply which isnt the case in the states, the reason for the last crash was that interest rates went up to 15% that just isnt going to happen.

The population is rising and they arent building houses any more.

This almost Malthusian view of the domestic UK property market cannot be supported by the reality currently unveiling itself to the average Brit consumer unless of course one were to listen to the vested interests of the deluded although even the dimmest estate agent now realises that sentiment can no longer be propped up by spouting nonsense.

Their is no shortage of housing per se but there is a dearth of affordable property if a prospective buyer earns an average income and declines to leverage himself to the point of financial suicide. Now that the subprime tap has been turned off it will only be a matter of time before the market restores itself to equilibrium whereupon the average buyer can return. At present the market is in hiatus with sellers yet to comprehend this shift and have priced themselves unrealistically to the point that very little is now selling and for sale boards are proliferating everywhere. The Buy to Let sector that speculated upon new build apartments throughout cities in the Midlands and the North is particularly vulnerable with typical losses amounting to up to 50% whenever they can be offloaded. In fact, thousands are currently empty and those holding amateur portfolios are inevitably facing bankruptcy. Repossessions are currently estimated to double within a year to a number far in excess of that experienced in the last crash of 91-95.

Essentially, the crash has already started and like all crashes before it will be a long drawn out affair.

The only issue of real interest yet to be resolved is which way will the Golden Clown jump. Accept the forthcoming recession for the inevitable it is and maintain interest rates a la Paul Volcker or trash the pound and hope the debt driven consumer frenzy of the past 3 years can be extended until after the next election. Reducing the interest rate this month suggests he would be happy with the latter.

I didnt realize it was to GCSE level 3 - surely that would mean the deportation of 50% of school leavers.

Too true, including Mr. Expat2B who uses a preposition to end a sentence with:-

Personally I couldn't seriously consider marrying someone who I could not have a proper conversation with...

Scouse.

Pedantry is often at the expense of euphony or in other words, up with this I will not put !

The Pattaya itinerant tat peddlar is an affront to humanity and should be purged.

In the food chain they rest lower than songthaew drivers and are a blight upon the cityscape beyond par.

They should all be rounded up and consigned to the crocodile farms as a dietary supplement. Not fit for anything else save possibly as live target practice at the shooting range.

Hate 'em with a passion, ignorant stupid lumpen morons all !

Are you gay friendly ?

Uhh the marked is so terrible

Ahh the marked is going down

*whine whine whine*

I bought a Condo in March this year for 9½ mill and sold it 2 months ago for 13½ mill bath

And Raimon land sold out their NorthPoint south tower (prices from 6 mill to 30 mill) even before the foundation was finished.

So yes, it must be very terrible and going down :-D

Presumably this is meant as an argument in support of the thesis that the property market is buoyant and all who enter it will be handsomely rewarded ?

Mmmm...bit like a survivor of a plane crash saying that the disaster killing others less fortunate was exaggerated simply because he didn't die.

Still, intellectual strength was never much of a requirement for an estate agent.

Shared needles, dear boy, shared needles.

I rather think it common knowledge that prisons at best are dreary places and consequently drug usage is rife. Thai prisons one would imagine are less appealing than , say, their British counterparts where drug abuse is in the majority, and therefore recourse to any form of escapism must reasonably be expected to be that more prevalent.

Corruption among the custodians suggests that availability is more or less assured but the means by which it is administered perhaps less so. Most NGO Aids/HIV agencies attribute increase in incidence to penal use of dirty needles among other reasons.

Whilst the phenomenon of ' being in love ' as a basis for marriage is a cultural marker of the Occident I don't think the same could possibly be said of the poor rural Thai/Khmer society as observed in what passes for Isaan. Yet many of us cling to the hope that ' our ' relationships will somehow succeed where many fail despite the cultural differences and a disparity in age that would doom most others elsewhere in the world.

Don't be too hard on yourself or your estranged wife. Young ill educated folk can't be criticised for behaving differently to those rather more advantaged in arriving at decisions they think are in their best interests. Whether or not you conclude that economic betterment was her primary motive in contracting the relationship is frankly irrelevant and not worth beating yourself up over. The fact is it has ended and you must now continue onto the next stage of your life.

Quite why you think that at 58 you are too old to assume responsibility for your baby daughter is somewhat mystifying given that you are committed to living in Thailand where the cost of doing so is such that your police pension is more than sufficient to provide for you both and the services of a sound nanny/maid wherever you choose to live. Assuming you are in good health and the thread by which we all hang does not unravel prematurely there is every expectation you have another 20 good years left during which time the child's development and education is assured until maturity. Access by the wife will doubtless vary according to whim but my experience of young Isaan folk leads me to suspect their own self interests will be paramount. Practicality is the watchword here and so it is important you resist any temptation to wallow in useless sentiment.

Presumably, you are where you are simply because that is where the wife's family live. Unless you are terminally attracted to the bucolic charms of rural life ( heaven forbid !) it may well be a good idea to return to civilisation and re-establish yourself as soon as you can. Look on the bright side, you may have lost a wife but you have gained your freedom from the demands of her wretched family..........if only, if only.

Typical forum responses in advance of the trial.

The chap might have swallowed the pellets thinking they were some exotic S.American fruit or he may have knowingly swallowed the cocaine but had been coerced into doing so through duress............

Anyway, cocaine use is hardly immoral or that particularly nasty. Should be a misdemeanour offence in my opinion but doubtless there are those who will equate it to kiddy fiddling and stealing from the blind etc.etc....

You must secure legal representation now. It will not cost the earth and should concentrate the minds of those idiots in the BIA.

There has been a sea change in culture in how applications are considered, a change which has been deeply influenced by an increase in staff who would have difficulty in obtaining employment elsewhere requiring an ability to count to 10 and write a coherent sentence of more than 6 words. In essence the impoverishment of resources in that wretched department has led to a ' tick box ' mentality managed by inexperienced buffoons ill equipped to understand either the legislation or the policy determining their own procedures.

Unfortunately, through no fault of your own, your wife's application is now trapped between the tramlines of BIA's stupidity. Paulwilday had a similar experience which was only redeemed by the intervention of a competent solicitor. If you need a steer in the right direction I suggest you either PM him or the Scouser who sponsors this forum.

Vinny has linked you to the relevant legislation which you could print off and send to your wife's employers as evidence of her continuing permission to work but I suspect that they would only be satisfied by written confirmation of this from the BIA themselves and God knows how this could be achieved quickly.

Get yourself a lawyer and continue your correspondence with the MP who will be aware of an avenue of complaint direct to the relevant Minister responsible, currently the vertically challenged slapheaded Brown sycophant Liam Byrne.