Madaussie

I do hope Crabby has taken a 2 week holiday in Hell.

_{BREAKING NEWS FROM HANNAH'S FAMILY}

The statement reads: “Our family have returned to Koh Samui for the closing days of trial. As a family we are here to represent our beautiful girl.

“Our world changed forever on 15th September 2014. Words cannot begin to explain the journey we have endured, a journey that has no end.

“We hope that the reporting of the case offers both Hannah and David their dignity and we ask that we are afforded our privacy to digest the case and the evidence being presented.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/words_cannot_begin_to_explain_the_journey_we_have_endured_hannah_witheridge_s_family_release_statement_1_4245626

Amazing Thailand, no wonder they wanted to keep everyone away they had to coach them through the re-enactment

“We heard the translator ask one suspect: “What did you do with the hoe (the alleged murder weapon) afterwards?” The suspect says: “I don’t know”. The translator then says: “You put it under the tree didn’t you.” The suspect was clearly being led,” said the human rights activist.

Whoops sorry didn't put the link in: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/human_rights_thailand_accuse_police_of_breaching_legal_rights_in_murder_trial_of_hannah_witheridge_1_4245303?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Well they cant bury this evidence as its going to come out in the Inquest in Norwich later on in the year.

So in the Thai news they say there's no evidence of a sexual assault. The corner has said why if she was raped as the RTP claimed is there no evidence of it. Which is why she has released the report.

Ask your partners if Thai to listen to this http://www.now26.tv/view/55814

Is the person who claims to be a "gait expert" going to post their credentials? And what court accepted their testimony to declared an expert? I think that when making such statements, one should be prepared to provide the facts.

He said Bait (bate)

I'm beginning to understand how the defence are presenting their case. Bit by bit, they're plucking apart the RTP's case, point by point, to the extent yesterday of challenging the RTP to re-think their conclusions. This latest disclosure, re no signs of rape just blows apart the RTP's assertions that they have a semen match to the accused.

Without going into the various spins some posters might present, the UK autopsy report does offer reasonable doubt for the judges to conclude they cannot rely on a rape assertion to convict the B2 of that charge.

That leaves the murder charge. So far, not one scrap of suspects DNA found on the hoe. The running man is unlikely to be one of the B2. That evidence is discounted. What remains is the confession and the re-enactment. If the defence can pull that to pieces, by proving torture the B2 should be found not guilty of murder.

That's my current opinion.

Stephen they pulled the re enactment apart today:

"She said it was abominable that both the 22 year-old suspects had been interrogated and made to participate in public and filmed re-enactments of the killing of 23 year-old Ms Witheridge, and fellow British tourist David Miller from Jersey, without any legal representation"

She also said it was clear from the video of one of the re-enactments, played to her in court, that the defendant was being told what to say.

“We heard the translator ask one suspect: “What did you do with the hoe (the alleged murder weapon) afterwards?” The suspect says: “I don’t know”. The translator then says: “You put it under the tree didn’t you.” The suspect was clearly being led,” said the human rights activist.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/human_rights_thailand_accuse_police_of_breaching_legal_rights_in_murder_trial_of_hannah_witheridge_1_4245303?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

So on another Thai media website it goes into more details on some of the points in the UK autopsy report that has not been reported in the English press, probably because of the graphic nature and out of respect for the victims families as AH mentioned, but I can summarize without going into details that Hannah displayed no traces of rape. I'll get my Thai wife to translate it a bit better when she gets back tonight.

Well that is the bombshell. No rape no semen, no suspects DNA. A cold-bloodied murder, instead, most likely carried out by a gang of enraged Thai thugs who attacked Hannah and David - with the victims trying to defend themselves with a hoe.

Explains why the DNA documentation has not been provided by the RTP. It's fictional.

Yep... Made up scene after they killed Hannah and David. Made to look like a rape/murder.. They have nothing. No DNA nothing.

Fantastic work... comparing a walk on flip flops with a barefoot run.

Glad your expertise in gait analysis is here to point out the kindergarten errors made by one of the leading international organizations in this field.

He isn't an expert in Gait its Bait (Bate)

Well, and as I said in the very first place, and will repeat again now, I am not interested in anything that goes on behind the scenes if it is not presented in a court of law and used as evidence. Even Forensic Experts have a right to their own opinion.

If she has some damning evidence, which has been claimed for months, then present it to the court. That is if she is not breaking any UK Laws, which she should check first. But go ahead. I am all ears. Let's see what she has. Or is all that just more smoke and no fire?

She did send it to the Thai court. Although it cannot be made public it was the UK pathologists duty to present the findings to the court as they bear relevance in the case.

There are rumours to what that is but i won't entertain that. So lets see what happens,, if it is swept under the carpet now you can bet it will come out later,,

I think you will find both coroners sent the reports to the court.

Coroners Response

I block him and AleG, but when they are quoted their post is visible, but this one was so full of bullshit that I just partially read it, I wanted to answer it point by point, to not let mistakes and lies like that unanswered, but I gave up and now the post is far... unless we quote it, then it resurfaces, which we just did.... Three times in a row...

I seem to have missed the info about the coroner report given to GB was it a private message (if so, could I get it too?) or public on this thread, strange that it didn't create any discussion.

Hi GB was saying the coroner had broken the law etc etc so I told him to contact the coroner. Etc etc.. He didn't want to so I emailed her for him to get a response. I will post the reply when I get it.

There are things about this case you seem to be forgetting. For example full confessions of both the accused after their DNA from a Cigarette Butt matched that of what was found inside of Hannah. Then when their DNA was taken separately and it to matched with Hannah. How odd and strange it is for me to think that 2 accused are questioned in 2 separate locations yet there stories match identically. Agreeing on what Win did on that night in question and also what Lin did.

Then when asked what happened to David Miller's Mobile Phone one of the accused said he found it in David Miller's pants pocket and gave it to a friend to hold. When this friend was questioned, sure enough he had it. He said he became suspicious of it so he destroyed it and threw it behind his living quarters, and where it was found by Police. A Mobile Phone that was surely worth something at least.

Then by their own admission you have the 2 accused on the beach very near the crime scene at or near the time of the murders. Both without alibi's except each other. Both admitting to drinking alcohol their at intoxicating levels. So what the Prosecution starts out with is 2 full Confessions, DNA evidence matching the accused to Hannah, a Mobile Phone that the accused confessed in taking form David Miller's Pants Pocket and giving to a friend, both having the opportunity to commit this crime as both admitted to being on the beach at or near the time of the rape and murder, both without alibis except from each other, and a motive, after the discovery of Hannah being raped before she was murdered.

All is quiet for near a week even after a visit from the Legal Counsel and members of the Myanmar Embassy but this Media attention has brought out some high profile Defense Team willing to work pro-bono. Then suddenly everything changes. This confessions become forced confession under torture, when nobody has come forward and admitted any such occurrence. The Translator was not competent and yet the 2 accused fully understood they signed a confession. That they did not understand that they signed permission to collect DNA Sample from them when a simple visit to the Justice of the Peace would have forced them to anyway, even if they had to be tied to a chair.

Then this Mobile Phone they first admitted getting from David Miller's Pant Pocket changes to, It becomes a Mobile Phone they found on the beach that night, in the dark, when they admitted they didn't see anyone else their. The witness changed his testimony to. He no longer destroyed it and got rid of it because he became suspicious of it, he now destroyed it and got rid of it because it didn't work. Who would destroy and expensive Mobile Phone given to him by a friend to hold, and without their permission I will never know.

Even the clothes and shoe(s) found at the crime scene that didn't belong to Hannah or David and that the accused said they were never their. They knew that this would be surely be tested for DNA, but that didn't matter as they already had an explanation for that to. They went swimming and although they did not see anyone, their clothes and shoes were stolen. So if the DNA turned out to be theirs well, the murderers must have planted them their to accuse them. For two guys with very little to next to none formal education, they sure got their ducks in a row in a hurry.

How many more times are people going to continue making this false statement that everything is lost. Just a couple of weeks ago almost everyone here was claiming that Hannah's clothes was lost. Then Dr. Pornthip questions why her clothes weren't DNA Tested. The clothes everyone said was missing. She also question why the blood in the sand wasn't tested either. Little did she know at this time that a few weeks earlier the Defense Lawyer was happy they could get this sandy blood for retesting. How can you retest something that was never tested before? How would you know any of this if there was no documentation on this DNA, which everyone keeps saying it doesn't exist?

Then you have the hoe. Dr. Pornthip's Lab finding DNA on this hoe, which was known to have been moved from the crime scene, and in which anyone could have touched it afterwards, saying they found DNA on it. Then alleged by the Media Dr. Pornthip telling the Police they need to get to the bottom of who these people are. Since when does the Forensic Expert tell the Police in any country how to handle an investigation?

But no need to do that as the Defense quickly found out or knew who's DNA it was anyway. The Forensic Lab guy, working for Dr. Pornthip claims it belongs to Hannah and David. Go Figure? Just another one of those strange coincidences. How they got Hannah's DNA and also Davids remains a mystery which the media doesn't seem to want to find out.

Which brings me to my last point in all this DNA from the Prosecution that many claim was tainted, destroyed, corrupt, lost, not documented, and so on. I don't think anyone here knows for sure what is left. We do know from the Prosecution Forensic Team said that all DNA was Replicated. Now this will draw many to explain this in over 1,000 Words why this is no damned good, but I only have One Logical question concerning this.

If Replicated DNA is no damned good then why do Forensic Labs Replicate it in the first place? Surely, if it can't be used again as many claim, they would not bother with this. But then from people who think that the entire Police Force from the Lowest Man on the street to the Highest General, and the entire Forensic Lab, would all lie and put to innocent men to their death for no good reason, what would you expect.

I hope you read that last link here from this case in which the Media say (by-the-way) even with David and Hannah's DNA on the hoe, surely David couldn't have done this otherwise he would be a suspect. Right! Then people here have the nerve to call me Defender of the RTP and that you stand up here for justice for Hannah and David.

Yeah! I am sure you all think you do. .

My opinion. Garbage.

I couldn't even bring myself to read it Stephen....

smedly

Reasonable Doubt is not Irrefutable Evidence, which you fail to grasp. It is the questioning by a reasonable person as to if the facts presented if worthy of a conviction or not.

You constantly keep saying the Defense does not have to prove there case but behind your back they are trying to do this every day. Doesn't this suggest something to you?

it suggests to me that you have absolutly no clue what you are talking about and there is plenty of evidence to prove that

Smedly you are with him. I gave him the coroners details and he wouldn't contact her either yet rants on about her. So I have done it for him.

Well, not really. I still think that OJ was guilty. But then I am not the court. What is the most important is what the court thinks and not me. That they have not been influenced by the media and social networks. I hope they believe innocent until proven guilty, which they are sworn to do.

But the Prosecution has made there case already, and whether you believe it is strong or not, they point to the accused guilt. So now it is the Defense Team that has to dispute this, which I believe they are doing now. They have to create reasonable doubt. If you believe reasonable doubt has been created already, then good on you. But I don't. .

So GB if that was one of your sons in the dock would u be happy for the police/courts to send your child to their death on the evidence submitted so far??

Straight Answer Yes/No

As a side note I did provide you with the coroners details and you have chosen not to follow it up so I have done it for you. A copy is posted earlier on this thread. At least then we can put you straight.

I am waiting for the explanation of how David was killed with a hoe without getting any of his blood on it.

Damn good point

Yes only Hannah's blood on the murder weapon. No wonder the Polee didn't want to test it for DNA. It doesn't fit their story does it. In fact what is their story now as the defence has asked them to reconfigure their case as it doesn't hold any water. Leaks like a colander

A new investigation under that scenario will probably a dead end, there will be no DNA evidence (hypothetically having already been discredited), it will be a very empty slate that, as you mention, would only please the alternative theory crowd because they'll have an empty canvass on which to draw their own ideas.

It's been a year since the murders, the alternative crowd has produced exactly zero evidence to support a case against anyone else and that is not bound to change, regardless of the outcome of the case; the only real evidence available is the one that the police has assembled. By taking the knee jerk and prejudiced stance of completely discrediting the RTP work the end result will be, as I mentioned before, that the baby is going to go out with the bath water.

So if they are found not guilty should the police give up then??

What should they do AleG??

Information held by a public authority

for the purposes of the Freedom of

Information Act

8. The example emphasises that it is the circumstances of each case that will determine whether information is held for the purposes of FOIA.

See also 7.

https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/1148/information_held_by_a_public_authority_for_purposes_of_foia.pdf

The Inquest is Open to the public Crabby. My interest is whether they will disclose the inconsistency's found or not. I would guess they have to but rather than discuss it on here its better to ask. Its a free country in the UK and they have to respond even if its to say no sorry we will nit disclose important information. However I think they will and have to. If we get the response at least all the armchair deteks will have it from the horses mouth. I for one don't know the answer.

Sent to Norfolk Coroner:

I know some of it but was scolded for mentioning maybe this and maybe that.. So I deleted it. It will come out in the inquest anyway. They cant keep it quiet forever. Freedoms in the UK allow people to know the truth at some point.

People in the UK should be furnished with the truth now, not some point in the future. If I was planning on a holiday to Koh Tao I would want to be reassured by the UK Government that they had done everything possible in their power to ensure that they were 100% confident that the evil people that committed the horrendous crimes on their citizens only a year ago were not still free to repeat their deeds. What benefit is it to anyone to withhold such vital information?

they have not withheld it, they have sent it to the courts. The UK have some sort of agreement that the report cannot be made public, so the public will not get to see it (until it is leaked in the UK of course which is just a matter of time).

People in the UK are already getting the picture about Thailand, its justice system and overall corruption.

I just emailed the Coroner for their opinion on what will be made public so will update you when I get a reply.

Also what is available under the FOI Act

Humans share 50% DNA with bananas

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/humans-share-50-dna-bananas-2482139

Chimpanzees share 98.4 per cent of our DNA, but the differences between us and them are still profound, as a new book argues.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/evolution/5695045/Are-human-beings-impossible-to-ape.html

So 25% match doesn't cut the mustard does it???

You are confused about what "match" means in a DNA profile, and what is meant when it is said that a chimpanzee's or a banana's DNA "matches" a certain percentage of human DNA.

The matches in a DNA profile only refer to human beings. The kits used in human DNA profiling only work on human DNA and would produce zero results if used on either banana or chimp DNA. They specifically look at only 13 tiny areas of around 2-300 base pairs in human DNA (the entire human DNA is 3 billion base pairs) and would give zero match with DNA from any other species.

The "matches" between human DNA and banana or chimp DNA that are referred to in these kinds of statements means when you compare 3,000,000,000 base pairs of human DNA with approximately the same number of bases in a chimp, and the approximately 500,000,000 base pairs in a banana, all along their length.

This has nothing to do with matches in a DNA profile which are zero: they are talking about two different, completely unrelated, issues.

Ok thanks for that I will stop monkeying around then.

I'm thinking if the prosecution is going to keep dickin around and not release full documentation for a clear and open analysis by the defense...it might be about time to reveal that coroner's report from the UK. It seems like the prosecution are in the final 10 seconds of a basketball game...they have the ball and are passing it around to run out the clock.

Sounds like a good idea but apparently the UK agreed with Thailand that the report would not be made public,, so we will never know what is in it. All we know from the UK press is that the forensic team in the UK have some "serious" issues about the Thai pathologist report and that they felt it was their duty to present to the court in Thailand.

It was definitely suggested it would help the case of the defence, but we will probably never know.

I know some of it but was scolded for mentioning maybe this and maybe that.. So I deleted it. It will come out in the inquest anyway. They cant keep it quiet forever. Freedoms in the UK allow people to know the truth at some point.

Humans share 50% DNA with bananas

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/humans-share-50-dna-bananas-2482139

Chimpanzees share 98.4 per cent of our DNA, but the differences between us and them are still profound, as a new book argues.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/evolution/5695045/Are-human-beings-impossible-to-ape.html

So 25% match doesn't cut the mustard does it???

To : - AleG, Goldbuggy and their TVF 'friends'

If anyone cares to read my earlier posts it's clear I could be convinced the B2 took part in the rape and murders, but only in a peripheral way, as emplyees acting under instructions from their boss(es). I made one qualification that the principle of 'beyond reasonable doubt' would have to be displayed in a fair and open trial. IMHO, the possibility of such a trial all but disappeared a long time ago, eg when a policeman perjured himself, CCTVs were not checked at the pier and clothing not submitted for DNA analysis, etc, etc, etc.

However, given the supposed righteous and judicious qualities of the police and the Thai legal system pronounced by yourselves, I still have some faith that a just verdict will be announced by the judges next month, and the B2 will be found not guilty.

I realise this is a hypothetical question, but if the B2 walk free, do you, AleG, Goldbuggy et al support the immediate re-opening of the investigation, in persuit of the real perpetrators of these horrific crimes?

Come on Joe you know the answer already to that already.

more news today but you will need to google this "Defence points to flaws in probe of Koh Tao murders"

Reuters Feed

Myanmar national Zaw Lin looks on as he arrives in a prison transport van outside Koh Samui court on the Thai resort island of Koh Samui on July 9, 2015. Photo: AFP Defence points to flaws in probe over Britons' Thai island murder Reuters | Wednesday, Sep 23, 2015 Reuters Wednesday, Sep 23, 2015 KOH SAMUI, Thailand - Lawyers defending two Myanmar migrant workers on trial for the Thai holiday island murders of two British backpackers sought on Wednesday to expose holes in a police investigation they maintain was botched and intended to frame the suspects.

http://news.asiaone.com/news/asia/defence-points-flaws-probe-over-britons-thai-island-murder