Presnock

3 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

Landlords (at least in the USA) get to deduct or write off many things on their taxes i.e. their property tax, utilities paid, depreciation of the rental, interest on the mortgage, fire insurance, flood insurance, hurricane insurance, repairs, maintenance costs, landscaping or yard maintenance, management fees etc.

 

If the Thai RD only sees and taxes your rental "income" and disallows your expenses (mentioned above) either by law or by way of making the burden of proof too onerous then this will be a big deal for some of us.

only chance might be providing tax filings with the Revenue Department but don't really have any idea what will be affected if this latest change  becomes fact.

3 hours ago, atpeace said:

I'm not trying to be a dkhead.  I just want some answers. I don't want to pay additional taxes on top of what I have already paid in the USA but as of yet don't sense I will and hence the lack of concern.

 

The USA and many other countries require "retired" tax residents that aren't citizens to file.  Most these individuals get little in return other than being able to use the infrastructure in such country.  There are many globe trotters not paying taxes and being funded by those that do.  Interesting times and a global tax is interesting but IMO not going to be a reality for many years.

 

Do you think individuals living in Thailand that have income and don't include this income on tax returns submitted in their home country should be taxed here?

depends as many may have low pensions or social security that is not "assessable" for taxes in their home country but as the Thai tax tables are different, these pensioners or SSl recipients will possibly be taxed here in Thailand unless they are protected by a well stated DTA concerning their income.  Hopefully very few will be affected.

37 minutes ago, Everyman said:

 

The RD isn’t going to know about my foreign accounts, they are not wizards with crystal balls. I don’t care about CRS or whatever; counties are not going to provide detailed account records of all their citizens to any 3rd world tinpot country that asks for it. The reason is because that is valuable intelligence that can be used for war, cyber attacks, kidnapping, and other criminal enterprises. 

 

It would be easy to look for accounts  with large balances that are owned by people without personal security, then kidnap or extort money from them or target them for scams. 

 

If immigration require evidence from the RD that a retiree has paid taxes on their global income, then anyone with any decent income is going to run for the airport so fast there will be a sonic boom. 

well, both the US and Thailand are signatories on the CRS program and they entails sharing of banking info on foreigners within their country that have bank accounts.  If you are remitting funds from your country to Thailand  and your bank knows that you are a tax resident in Thailand, I do believe that they will share data - what all that entails I haven't the slightest idea.  If you have been filing a tax form either in Thailand if a tax resident or in another country on income from the other country and have accounts in both then they will be sharing data on your banking...this year will possibly be minor compared to what might arise next year.  I am not affected yet but TIT so am sitting on the fence right now waiting for the next GREAT tax the expat program.  Good luck!

24 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

I have rental income from the UK which I rarely remit the Thailand and pay tax in the UK. They have a system and a form for non-resident landlords to file. You do accounts deducting expenses including agents fees, repairs and renovations and pay tax on your profit. Some years I have had to do a big renovation and declared a loss. No problem with UK taxman who has never audited or even asked for receipts or documentation in decades.

 

How will this work under Thai global tax? When I do my Thai tax return, I will have file for tax in the UK for 1 Jan to 5 April of the Thai tax year I am filing for but not for 6 April to 31 Dec. So I clalm tax credit for 1Jan to 5 April and pay full Thai tax for the rest of the year. But I will also have paid advance UK tax based on an estimate which can later be adjusted, Do they ignore that? Next year do I then claim a tax credit for what I paid in Thailand? Does Thailand allow deduction for repairs and renovation? If so, what documentation would they ask for?

 

 Sounds like a horror no incoming our way without looking at how they will treat other overseas investments. But one thing we know is that they don’t allow deductions for losses. So those already paying tax on capital gains less capital losses will likely have more to pay in Thailand. 
 

None of this has been thought through in this pkan to just shake the foreign money tree until it dies. Not saying they have no right to tax bit it would be better if they spent a couple of years studying the implications and then came up with detailed plans which would probably mean a complete overhaul rather than just applying Thai tax rules to overseas income and not caring about the complexities or unintended consequences.

 

well, I can fully understand the problems they are having coming up with whatever tax changes that they think could help them and we see on this forum than the majority of folks don'tr even understand all the tax problems from their own country - now the locals if they cared at all would have some "experts" advising them but we know that will never happen.  The bossman has directed them to find every baht possible immiediately so who is stuck out on a limb so to speak  - the expats who have no options, either stay and pay or go.  Hopefully most will not be affected with the final program on tax changes.  

On 6/8/2024 at 2:02 AM, still kicking said:

I often wonder why farangs feel attracted to Asians. Not just Thais but any nationality. Don't tell me they look young, ones they over 40 they look the same. So What is the attraction? If you are old sex doesn't matter so what is it?

heard a shrink response to this many years ago - the average SEA females' bodies are about the same size a western girls bodies when we were reaching puberty and therefore are attracted to that size woman.  Works for me.   But guess it is all in the eyes of the beholder.

On 5/20/2024 at 5:26 AM, Everyman said:

Milestones continue to pass without any updates from the revenue department regarding enforcement. Last year everyone was waiting for the new year to hear more. There was nothing. Now everyone is waiting for the six month residency period. There will be nothing. Then they will say “oh, something will be announced by the end of 2024.” When that date passes they will point to the audit period. 

 

Regarding the residency thing, how does TRD know how long you’ve been in the country? With the DTAs as complicated and varied as they are, surely the rule change is minor, so why does everyone think they will suddenly step up enforcement, especially absent any statements to affirm that? How much different is it to prove that monies were earned in a different year than to prove they fall under a DTA provision? If it’s suddenly so critical to get a tax ID number merely based on residency, then why is it also so difficult to get one as compared to someone working in Thailand? 

 

My first thought when I saw the announcement in September was that it was aimed at a few wealthy Thais that have managed to wriggle out of audits based on that rule, not foreign residents or condo investors, even if they are affected under the letter of the law. 

 

For resident that brings in enough money to live on or even buy a [few] condo[s] or build a house for an Isaan girl or even start a small business, there’s not enough reason to do anything at all, and certainly not to “avoid Thai tax residency” which there is no evidence the TRD can track anyway or is interested in tracking. And the consequences down the road if something does get enforced is what…a 2000 baht fine and asserting to TRD that funds fall under a DTA? 

from what I have heard, it is based on the integrity of the individual who should know if he has to file or not, if one doesn't have assessable funds remitted or whatever, one isn't required to file a tax form.  The RD may have info on your stateside account or from local banks on your monies remitted and contact you about why the funs are not assessable.  I can provide documented proof so don't plan to do anything right yet.

'

6 hours ago, paul1804 said:

If you are going to consume "lots" of tomatoes remove the skin first as the skin in particular contains a chemical that will cause inflammation in your body, mainly your joints! 

that is why I take a tablespoon of tomato paste daily with breakfast.  Other lycogene sources (other than tomatoes include, carrots, pink guava, ) lycogene is from reddish colored veggies, but tomatoes have the most and instead of a lot of raw tomatoes or stewed tomatoes, etc, I find that the tomator paste is the best source for me.  there are a couple of best sellers out right now - available in the top book store near Siam mall area are two books on food research, the books by Dr. Willam Li a Harvard heart specialist, plus serveral other titles including researcher.  His books, one tells what food/plants can prevenet, and even cure cancers and other diseases, while the other describes the best foods to eat for living a healthy long life.  The researchers have already determined that all the diseases that kill people such as heart disease, diabetes, cancers, obesity, Alzheimer's, etc are all caused by the poor diets of people and I guess there are a small % by generic transmitted diseases too.  I recently bought both books and am amazed at how eating healthy can help one live a better  and longer life.  Good luck.

14 hours ago, rocketboy2 said:

 

Not missed the point at all.

I'm just waiting to see what happens.

I have rental income from the uk, I will still wait and see what comes 

if I'm late or miss filling a tax return in Thailand, so be it. new rules or even newer rule that may come.

I'm not running into the revenue office with money in hand.

Some will, that's for sure.

 

 

totally agree, we do not have the slightest idea what will come out in the final paper on these two programs nor if there will be even more schemes to get every baht they can from the expats since they are such an easy target.  My opinion only of course and I do wish all of us good luck in whatever comes out finally.

17 hours ago, bg53 said:

Methinks the Thai government has severely underestimated the wide options available for capital and revenue to find a new home.

Well to me it appears that too many of the new office sitters/bosses are being told to search every nook and cranny to find any baht whatsoever as the coffers have been found to be emptied on useless for the citizens (i.e.war machines, free money, etc) and these folks just have no idea of what they are doing nor what that office is really responsible for.  I liken it to the US where those elected are selected by the $$$ folks and businesses that just want more money from the masses.  That is very obvious here right now.  The military govt made their purchases from foreign countries and now the current govt wants to tax the expats from all those foreign nations.  We are an easy target for all as we have no real standing in this country.  That is obvious by the visas they sell to us and their cries for "more tourist dollars" every

year since they then don't have to produce anything except the collection from the foreigners.  I think that I am safe from these two latest plans to change tax laws here but then again TIT and who knows what the next scheme might bring...hell, we don't even know that these two really could look like until the RD puts out the final paper on whichever or both of these two programs.  Good luck to all.

19 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Guess i should have defined the ''I will stay and not pay taxes too.'' option better, not sure if people mean with this they don't have to pay anyways, or they simply refuse to pay.

What I meant was - not having all the finals of these local financial wizards and what they have decided they will do with ALL of the expat situations, it is difficult to make a decision affecting one's life.  If they decided to change laws, cancel treaties with 61 countries Or  mine anyway, and cancel visa benefits (what there are) , then I  might just leave too and take my family with me or not BUT I could definitely cease

to be a Thai tax resident.  Good luck to all of us

21 hours ago, Sheryl said:

What you need is a urine culture with sensitivity, this will hopefully show what antibiotics the organism is sensitive to.

 

 

21 hours ago, simon43 said:

Such a useless response!  I replied honestly to your post and because my reply doesn't fit your narrative, you flounce... 🙂

 

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

Update for other posters:  My PSA result just arrived from the lab: 8.9.  Now on the face of things this might sound bad!  But it's down from the 12 - 15 value from 18 months ago.  My lab results indicate an UTI (as usual), and so I'm very happy that my PSA value is only slightly raised above my 'normal' value of 6.

 

The lab is currently checking the bacteria to see what it is.

 

By the way, I always consider Life Sciences to be good value for money.  A general blood test, PSA test and specific urine culture test costs 1,800 baht.

Whatever the doctor says do, do just that.   in addition, try 6 ounces of pure pomegranate juice every day, drink 2-3 cups of green or black tea - no sugars, no dairy milk, eat lots of tomatoes or tomato paste daily.  Some say this can help lower your psa numbers and help ward off cancers.  But those researchers say doing these inputs too strengthens the pharma treatments.  Just saying, no guarantees but I have read about the research on these and prostate cancers.  Daily videos on YouTube about health and food.

55 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

The one hilarious part of that, is where they want the public to be aware they need to be taxed more for their receiving better welfare and amenities?! Like out of control pollution and unsafe roads/sidewalks/zebra crossings.....substandard building practices, substandard electrical practices, corrupt governments, etc etc etc?.......improve the welfare, safety, and amenities first, and clean corruption out of government (at least to some form of reasonable level), then come and talk to us about more taxes.

well don't forget the war machines of all types, globe trotting of elected officials so they can relax and see how "it" is done elsewhere,  plus all those meetings to discuss the why isn't it working type and how much can we get to pay for what WE need.  Just too many things to consider for them

9 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Many have significant overseas income that is not brought into Thailand. For these creeps to even consider attempting to tax that would be insanity and a bizarre over reach of power. 

 

It is representative of incompetent and lazy minds, who are in way over their heads, when it comes to economic policy. 

well, that is it exactly isn't it.... previous govts spent on frivilous matters, new govt promised the citizens the moon as far as expenses go and then upon moving into the new govt found out the coffers were already empty before they were able to even touch it!  My opinion as I am not any kind of financial wizard either.  I have done office budgets and they were bad enough but once retired, one payment from the govt every month - taxes and insurance already taken out.  The provided with documents for everything from the office paying those funds, fill in a blank 1040, file with agency and viola! within two weeks only, a check from the govt again for overpayment!  Other than than here the finances have been fairly simple too and unless some vigorous changes to their tax laws then I am staying relaxed until the final programs are out.  I only follow on this forum to lend a little voice support to those that might be affected though they have been supporting a lot already just by living here.  Hopefully they have always paid any taxes necessary as it might help them over he hump in whatever does finally shake down from the trees.  Good luck to all.

40 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Well for me it is just very simple math, I already have to pay a private school as public is not good enough, same for health insurances. Then also for retirement. If they want these percentages in tax, which is easy 20-30K or more, monthly, it is just too much to be worth while.

 

The tax money + education money combined gives me access to most places. The education cost is already a weight on my shoulders. It would simply cost as much as a decent country cost at that point, which makes it not really worth it at all to be here.

My daughter went to an international school - tuition more expensive than the top local universities here but, it was worth it based on her attitude about learning without me ever having to say anything except "well done young lady, proud of you" as she excelled - speaking, reading, etc 4 different languages as well as great computer skills and high math skills too in case she would ever need them.  The school, teachers and administrators were all super supportive and worked well with parents too in keeping kids on track - this during COVID and all except maybe Kindergarten didn't miss any academics as the school had already purchased an online teaching program in case they needed to close the school for pollution - lucky they had that program - very successful in my opinion - CMIS in Chiang Mai of course.

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Good point - many already use agents to stay here illegally, ie without the necessary funds in the bank. In my 3 decades here they have often thrown hurdles to overcome, to find out there are agents and others to guide you around said hurdles. 

guess I am pretty lucky then as I retired here 20 years ago and so far have never felt the need for an agent when meeting the requirements of the immigration folks.  Good luck to all

4 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

This is the part I want to have concrete verification from the RD on before I remit anything more, that it is indeed non-assessable income, and there is no need to file a return showing it (the remittance). Until that happens, I am living off what I sent before January 1st 2024, and no more money will be sent until I am sure this is settled.

 

one note, if the Thai govt decides to go this route and at the same time to drop benefits of DTA and LTR, the DTA treaty signed says that at least 6 months advance notice that one side or the other will cease following the actions of the DTA, so if they want to change everything so that all taxes are covered by all expats, we know for sure it can't happen until next year so while some may leave sooner before the end of this month, the rest of us will have until January.  Guess will be a few houses and condos going on sale if that were to happen.  But, then again TIT and maybe some of the leaders will wake up shortly or be totally gone out of the picture.  Good luck to all.

12 hours ago, gearbox said:

Here is your guide...pick up a country.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation

 

From what I see Malaysia will tax remitted foreign income under certain conditions. The Philippines seems to remain the only comparable country around which doesn't tax foreigners who are tax residents. There are quite a few countries without income tax, and also many with only territorial taxes, but I wouldn't live permanently in any of them.

Yes, most of ASEAN were signatories on the OECD agreement of July 2023 and some are going through this same exercise.

13 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

A practical idea but I doubt they could get their minds around that because they have to base everything on what is in the Revenue Code from which that would be a huge departure.  They would also think there are people with income massively above that they wouldn't want to let off the hook.  The UK introduced something like that for non-doms who are foreigners living in the UK with exemption from overseas income.  They told them they could either go on to full UK global tax or pay a flat rate of tax on  a notional quite high income which meant they didn't have to file anything else, except on remittances.   But the non-dom scheme has all but been blown up by the Sunak government.  

 

Essentially the reality is that they are not going to carve out exceptions for a group of foreigners they consider to be making only a marginal contribution.  If they do, it will be along the line of the LTR visa to attract multimillionaires and then change the rules on them a couple of years later. 

Multimillionaires?  I think there are a lot fewer than you and the rest of the AN think.  I only have a US govt pension so the taxes that could be avoided via the LTR are a moot point anyway because of the DTA with the US.  If the Thais decided to wipe out all the treaties that have been

worked out between Thailand and those 60 or 61 other countries, they by international law have to advise those countries in advance that they

wish to do this.  Then if they followed through they would have a difficult time getting any treaty signed with a foreign country for anything unless of course they follow this route and join BRICS in the fall.  The LTR on last count hardly has enough expats to help the revenue dept meet their goals anyway.  Any mulitmillionaires on an LTR would just cease to be a tax resident here or elsewherever they wanted.  In the long run, any changes that are made to the tax laws against expats will IMHO cause a decrease in the funds collected by the Revenue Department as it will probably already show a drop from 2024.

10 hours ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

Joined already.

9 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

I know the Thaksin govt is putting the RD under huge pressure to get more tax from anywhere it can but, having just reinterpreted the law to tax post 2024 remittances, you would think they would be well advised to make that work first.  There is still nowhere to claim tax credits for foreign tax on the tax return forms, nor any reference to them in the Revenue Code.  Application of DTAs is a very complex subject and usually involves hundreds of pages of regulations which they have obviously not intention of doing.  

 

They started off saying this was aimed mainly at Thais investing overseas and for fairness but have dropped all that pretence already.  Wealthy Thais can still easily avoid paying tax on current overseas income under this proposal because then can do their investments through family office companies in tax efficient jurisdictions that don't tax capital gains or dividends like Hong Kong and Singapore.  That way they only have to pay Thai tax, if they decide to pay some of the income out in dividends, and can otherwise continue to accumulate their wealth tax free.  I am sure Thaksin has a whole army of these family offices working for him overseas.  Given that wealthy Thais have an easy way round this, it is extremely questionable that it will generate significant incremental tax revenue. 

 

As with the current remittance tax, the wealthy retirement sector that they seem keen to attract, will take a hit.  It blows up the LTR visa tax exemption on remittances as the LTR visa holders will have to pay tax on their overseas income before they remit it, rendering the Royal Decree exemption redundant.

 

9 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

I know the Thaksin govt is putting the RD under huge pressure to get more tax from anywhere it can but, having just reinterpreted the law to tax post 2024 remittances, you would think they would be well advised to make that work first.  There is still nowhere to claim tax credits for foreign tax on the tax return forms, nor any reference to them in the Revenue Code.  Application of DTAs is a very complex subject and usually involves hundreds of pages of regulations which they have obviously not intention of doing.  

 

They started off saying this was aimed mainly at Thais investing overseas and for fairness but have dropped all that pretence already.  Wealthy Thais can still easily avoid paying tax on current overseas income under this proposal because then can do their investments through family office companies in tax efficient jurisdictions that don't tax capital gains or dividends like Hong Kong and Singapore.  That way they only have to pay Thai tax, if they decide to pay some of the income out in dividends, and can otherwise continue to accumulate their wealth tax free.  I am sure Thaksin has a whole army of these family offices working for him overseas.  Given that wealthy Thais have an easy way round this, it is extremely questionable that it will generate significant incremental tax revenue. 

 

As with the current remittance tax, the wealthy retirement sector that they seem keen to attract, will take a hit.  It blows up the LTR visa tax exemption on remittances as the LTR visa holders will have to pay tax on their overseas income before they remit it, rendering the Royal Decree exemption redundant.

 

Applied already in March 2024 - takes 5-7 years before approved or not - google Thailand applies OECD

22 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I have seen no official announcement to this effect. Just as yet unsubstantiated speculation.

 

Where exactly did you read this?

TODAY THAI EXAMINER