Scott123

dup

I just read about an Ozzie couple who rented a house for a few months in Thailand. While out to dinner, it burned down. The investigators said it was faulty wiring. The couple confirmed everything was OK for them to leave the country, and they did. Now, 2 years later, they return to the LOS and are in big trouble.

The owner got another investigator to say it was a cigarette in the bed that caused the fire. He wanted 60,000B. The couple had to pay or they were not allowed to leave the Kingdom.

What a mess these Thai's allow to happen. Such a shame....hope you get your issued resolved!!!!

This seems strange....

How did the police know these Ozzie couple returned to Thailand?

Were they on immigration's black list and arrested upon entering Thailand?

or perhaps they returned to visit the landlord?

.....

.....Prices last quarter of 2009 at 2.45m fell to to 2.3m.

Did you mean 2008?

...

I have a 1 bedroom with a huge balcony on level 16 with un interupted views over the city on the Nana side.

...

You forgot to mention your view includes an abandoned construction site named Regent, a 30 story eye sore.

.....very very few are up for re sale.

Actually, there are quite a few rooms for sale at Trendy, you can see them on Craigslist or many other real estate agent websites. They usually advertised it for both rental and selling. However, just like other projects, their owners are setting the price as if they don't know there is a worldwide economic recession. Hence there is little or no transaction.

These Trendy resellers setting their prices comparable to other Grade A condo projects in the area (minumum of 85000 baht/sqm for lower floors). Persnoally, if I were to pay this kind of price, I would rather buy other new properties in the area.

Wow the description Scott 123 gives is a long way from what I saw of the units when I viewed.

What was noticeable and pointed out to me by the agent was the high ceilings! Certainly a bit higher than most condo's I had seen.

The balcony exists and is a decent size. Not going to have a bbq on there but certainly big enough for a gf to throw me off!

Maybe other units suffer from no balcony and low ceilings and I just got lucky.

A friend told me that previously these were serviced apartments which ran at 10% occupancy for 6 years before the owners gave up. But I cannot verify that.

You probably saw the top 2 floors (16th and 17th ??) one and two bedroom type. Yes, those room type have balconies, and top floor penthouse have high ceiling, especially those duplex rooms.

Again, you have to compare Trendy with other NEW condos. It looks ok only because it is new now. 3 years from now, you may be seeing it as just another Sukhumvit Suite condo (or worse). Of course, no problem if you are just renting. But I can not see myself owning a unit at Sukhumvit Suite Condo.

Noble Remix on Sukhumvit Soi 36 is supposed to have direct walkway to BTS Thonglor station. Completion and transfer is scheduled for 4Q 2009. If interested to takeover a unit, 60 sqm, 1 bed / 1 bath, reply here or send message (PM)

HOw much are u selling?

In thailand, brokers and owners do two things:

1. ask you first how much your budget is.

2. give you a outrageous price and tell you it is negotiable.

i know there is one at Ekamai, are there any other nice condo buildings that have that great feature?

It's Nusasiri, at the corner of Sukhumvit and Soi 42.

Then, how does the skytrain save you from dragging your weekly shopping bags from Lotus or Carefour? You will still need a taxi or your own car.

Proximity of BTS is nice for hotels (JW Marriott), serviced apartments and for people who really need to be right on the BTS lines.

Unless you are oriented to the top-tier grocery shops like one at the Emporium (it is directly on the Phrom Phong BTS station, has serviced apartments and some for rent), I see no real value in paying for that.

I don't see many people carry grocery bags in BTS trains.

TTM try to picture this.

500 mill upgrade to Ambassador hotel well on its way

Sofitel near completion

The Regent hotel and residence (possibly a year or 2 at the current progress) across the road

Near Nana and Asoke

You really think it will still be a bad location and a poor choice at the ridiculously low prices the condos were originally sold for? try buying here in 2 years time. What are your thoughts?

I don't think it's a bad location. Just a bad condo.

Isn't the Sofitel built where the beer bars used to be? 5 or 6 years ago I always used to stay in the Ruamchitt Plaza....Ahhh..those were the days

By the way...Anybody have any "interior" pics?

RAZZ

Of course the original price was low in 2004 if you look at it from today's market. That price was comparable with all the other projects in 2004.

The location is convenient, but the soi does not look attractive. Especially at night, the food vendors spread plastic chairs and tables around at the entrance of the soi. Sometimes taxi refuse or can not enter the soi. The cusotmers sitting at these plastic chairs are the drunks and cheap whores. The Miami hotel is an eye sore, you really have to see it to believe it. The outdoor piss corner by this hotel is digusting, you can smell it from far away.

Trendy's interior looks ok now because it is new. The units have noticable low ceiling height, with no balconies.

If you have a unit on the swimming pool side (facing soi 13), you have a view of a nearly abandoned construction site called Regent. The swimming pool is big, with a view of the same construction site mentioned.

I have been living in Thailand for 2 years. I don't have any bank account in Thailand. For my expense here, I use U.S. ATM to withdraw cash and I use U.S. credit cards.

What assumption would IRS be making on me?

Thus, 6%pa is the lowest and probably achieve 7.5% on the average over a decade. I did not say the new condos are getting 6%pa at this moment. My estimate is that they will be lucky to get close to 5%pa, assuming they purchased their units at Bt90,000/m2 or more.

Another assumption you are making based on your subjective opinion.

People bought condos on paper plan 3 or 4 years ago pay much less than Bt90,000/sqm, but the condo were finished and transfer a year (or less) ago. These are brand new condos. They definitely get more than 6% rental return.

Even if they pay Bt90,000/sqm, for a brand new high rise 35 sqm studio condo in prime Sukhumvit and less than 5 minutes walk to BTS, the price is Bt3.15 million, the rent is about Bt20K per month. Even at Bt16k per month rent, it is still much more than 6% return you claimed. And at Bt16K per month in such location, the unit will be rented out in no time.

I am in the juristic committee and we are progressing in renovating the common areas, spreading the budget over 3 years. Just redone the lift lobbies in the last 3 months. Next 3 months will be the building frontage and entrance.

You are counting your active work income as part of passive rental income. Working actively in the juristic committee require time and effort, and is active work, with expection of financial gain in your rental income. (although it is up for debate wether a work permit is required).

I suppose you are a farang on retirement visa. You have a lot of free time, and thus can serve in the juristic committee and spend a lot of time renovate your unit. This is probably the only way to get income without a work permit here. But lets face it, all your work requires time and effort. Many landlords do not want to spend all this time and effort if they have other source of real work income.

Around my former place (Sukhumvit +) there were dozens of handwritten cardboard ads on poles advertising units for rent. The price was the same as through an agency - tight ass owners did not want to give 1 month commission.

Could be, it could be had cheaper (70K down to 60~K) but then you are on your own - no contract, what happens to 2 months deposit when you want to move out, any other disputes or damage/repairs?

Agents get commission for finding tenant for the owner. They get their one month commssion immediately from the 2 months deposit you pay at the time of signing contract. They are not responsible for anything after the contract has been signed. In fact, the agents always work for owners (because this is where the commisson comes from), not for tenants. Many agents disappear from tenants sight immediately after the contract is signed, won't even bother to return phone calls or email.

I have two friends who moved from a 2 bedroom in soi Ruim Rudee to a comparable quality 2 bedroom in Rachada and they saved at least Bt18000 per month. They didn't moved to an old lower rise in Ruim Rudee.

And again, all properties that you discussed are for rental income purpose. Your theory may not apply to the buyers who want to buy and live in the condo. Personally I just won't have the pride of ownership when buying and living in an older low rise building. But that's only me.

That is my point - that refurbishing an old condo for a falling rental market is the correct investment model.

The pride of ownership, and the pride and comfort of the tenant in staying in an old condo, can be largely addressed by refurbishment. It is not easy to find such a refurbished unit in a choice location, and that forces your friends to move to a less desirable location.

Here are photos of my over 20 years old condo unit:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/2-bedroom-2-...um-t245532.html

again, my friend moved from a nice new rental condo in Ruim Rudee to a nice new rental condo in Ratchada. They did not move to an old refurbished lowrise unit in Ruim Rudee.

You can refurbish the condo unit inside the room, but you can not refurbish the lobby, the elevator (if lowrise, the stairs), the swimming pool, the fitness room, the playground. You can not refurbish even the area immediately outside of your unit. No, the pride of ownership issue can do be addressed by refurbishing.

And you still have not told us how much you spend on refurbishing your unit. You need to add this expense to your cost base.

You mentioned new condo get rental return rate of 6%, and you can get 7% with refurbished old condo. That is a wopping 1% with all the effort you put in, and for the price of owning an old lobby....I think I will pass.

Suppose the economic situation improves in 3 years, people would be looking for nice high rise units again, then your claimed advantage of refurbished old lowrise units disappears.

I have no problem paying 500 baht per day for the pills.

But what would I do with the 20 years extra life in old age?

Last September, I paid 12000 baht for 3 year of all location fitness and one location yoga package. I am only interested in fitness, but they told me the package is cheaper than fitness only membership.

The way I look at this, Cali Wow is so much cheaper than all the other major chains or hotel gyms, if it goes out of business in a year, I would still have saved some baht. And after all Cali Wow is not really that bad, the equipment is adequate, much better than say JW Marriott hotel gym. Only problem I can think of is that Cali Wow gets quite crowded during peak hours, which is ok with me since I am flexible enough to avoid peak hours.

I live in central BKK (prime sukhumvit area), use aircon almost 24 hours/day. How often should I replace aircon filter?

I bought my 2-bedroom at Waterford for Bt2.45m in Sep 2008 and renovating the unit in Oct. My tenant came to see the unit mid-Oct during renovation and place his booking. He moved in end of Oct, paying Bt20,000/month.

My 2-bedroom unit in Premier was renovated and placed in advertisement in the last week of Feb 2009. The unit was booked 3 weeks later and tenant moved in end of Mar. Rent is at Bt45,000 compared with the asking rent of Siri at Bt65.000-70,000.

How much did you spend to refurbish your Waterford? a 70sqm unit can easily cost 700K baht to refurbish, so your cost based is Bt3.2m or higher, not Bt2.45m. Your return ratio is around 7% per year, which is just normal.

I surveyed the rental market since mid of last year. Rents of new condo units along Sukhumvit 24 fell by 15-20% between rental contracts made last year and the asking rents of the first quarter of this year - from Bt80,000 to about Bt65-70,000.

Asking rent may fall further, but many units will have lost their previous tenants to the older condo units in the same location, and have to fight for new tenants. Thus, vacancy of the old condo units will not be high, while occupancy of the new ones will be uncertain.

Please give us more details about the methodology of your survey. How many landloards or tenants responded to your survey, and what questions were on your survey. I don't believe an unbiased survey ever exists in Thailand. People don't even tell the Land Office their real purchasing price. How many landlord would respond to your survey and tell the truth? Also keep in mind that Thais do not like to loose face.

As for you saying newer condos loose tenants to older condos in the same location etc. This is only your subjective theory. I have two friends who moved from a 2 bedroom in soi Ruim Rudee to a comparable quality 2 bedroom in Rachada and they saved at least Bt18000 per month. They didn't moved to an old lower rise in Ruim Rudee.

And again, all properties that you discussed are for rental income purpose. Your theory may not apply to the buyers who want to buy and live in the condo. Personally I just won't have the pride of ownership when buying and living in an older low rise building. But that's only me.

I would agree with trogers and the other members' sentiments above, but I would add that it is a better investment model overall in terms of ROI vs. the new places.

Low-rises in good locations, with only a couple/few rooms per floor are much better value for money than any shiny new unit IMO. You get higher ceilings, and a lot more floor space (2 bedroom condos from the 'old school' are at the very least 100sqm, usually more like 150 sqm, whereas now developers call a 55sqm place with 2 shoebox bedrooms a "2br"). Just gut the place and deck it out to high spec and it will beat most new projects hands down. And fewer owners in Thailand is overall better for the building IMO - as opposed to 500+ unit structures with low occupancy and even lower % of owners paying maintenance. In the smaller older buildings, you can at least see with your own eyes how it has been maintained over the years, and there is A LOT less (if any) turnover - the owners own and keep, period... less transient tenants = better IMO.

I've also noticed better overall building quality in the better older condos... during the last boom there wasn't as much cost-cutting as compared to what is coming online now or in the near future...

edit: i also like to peruse the classifieds, and yeah that "Gerwin" guy has some pretty ridiculous ads! 300K/month for a 110sq wah house?

Your post is all your subjective opinion. However,

-- Where is the proof that low rise, older building has higher occupancy rate, and a lot less turnover?

-- You buy a low rise, older unit and spend money to refurbish it, then rent it at a lower price than a new high rise unit. Your rate of return may be about the same as a new condo.

-- A shiny new unit in a new building is a big plus in Thailand and it gives you the pride of ownership. For renters, new high rise building gives them the pride of occupancy.

Check out 2 condo developments near the intersection of Rama 4 and Sukhumvit (both are only 600m apart, with the newer project only 100m from BTS Prakhanong) - Sukhumvit Plus which is less than 2 years old and Waterford Rama 4 which is over 13 years old. Check ave rental rates and visit the developments to see occupancy levels.

Also check out Siri Residence and Premier Condominium (50m apart) in Sukhumvit Soi 24. Siri Residence is less than 2 years old while Premier is over 20 years old.

In my opinion, suppose older condos may have higher occupancy (and this is yet to be proven), it may simply because the building has such a long time to accumulate residents. Most Thai landloards do not raise rent price, so tenants living in these old buildings for years are paying very cheap rents.

Waterford units are quite well-known for cheaper price to buy or to rent. A 2bedroom unit only asks for rent of 18000 baht/month there. Check out the following ad from Prakard.com:

Nice Condo with Walking distance to BTS- Prakanong Station. Quite and Nice speculation. 72 sq.m, 7th floor. 2 bedrooms, 1 bathroom, 2 balconies ,1 living room and kitchen. Fully furnish with New flooring. 3 Air Conditioned, 2 Swimming pool, Fitness , 2 Parking slot, Tennis court and Sauna . Only 19,000 bath per month

Please Call Moun : 089-110887 or 089-1092299 Sonny

ให้เช่าคอนโดหรู Water Ford พื้นที่ 72 ตารางเมตร ถนนพระราม 4 ซอยภูมิจิตร เขตพระโขนง

ชั้น7 มี 2 ระเบียง บรรยากาศดี สงบ ความสะดวกสบายครบครัน ความปลอดภัยสูง มี รปภ. 24 ชม. 2 สระว่ายน้ำ, ฟิตเนสพร้อม เซาว์น่า, สนามเทนนิส , 2 ห้องนอน 1 ห้องน้ำ พร้อมแอร์ 3 ตัว จอดรถได้ 2 คัน ครัว เฟอร์นิเจอร์ครบครันและเพิ่งปูพื้น laminate ใหม่ อยู่ใกล้สถานีรถไฟฟ้า BTS พระโขนง ราคา 18,000.- บาท สนใจติดต่อ โทร.089-1100887 หม่อน or 089-1092299 เสก

Another Waterford 70sqm unit even asks for 15000baht/monht (see this ad)

I believe a new 2 bedroom 70 sqm unit in that area can get at least 35000baht/month.

You buy old condo, spend money to refurbish it, then rent out at low rent. Your return income ratio is just about the same as the new condos. It's fine if you are buying to live in it because it is a personal choice and affordability issue. But I would not live in that building myself, and I would not have the pride of ownership in that building.

I would agree with trogers and the other members' sentiments above, but I would add that it is a better investment model overall in terms of ROI vs. the new places.

Low-rises in good locations, with only a couple/few rooms per floor are much better value for money than any shiny new unit IMO. You get higher ceilings, and a lot more floor space (2 bedroom condos from the 'old school' are at the very least 100sqm, usually more like 150 sqm, whereas now developers call a 55sqm place with 2 shoebox bedrooms a "2br"). Just gut the place and deck it out to high spec and it will beat most new projects hands down. And fewer owners in Thailand is overall better for the building IMO - as opposed to 500+ unit structures with low occupancy and even lower % of owners paying maintenance. In the smaller older buildings, you can at least see with your own eyes how it has been maintained over the years, and there is A LOT less (if any) turnover - the owners own and keep, period... less transient tenants = better IMO.

I've also noticed better overall building quality in the better older condos... during the last boom there wasn't as much cost-cutting as compared to what is coming online now or in the near future...

edit: i also like to peruse the classifieds, and yeah that "Gerwin" guy has some pretty ridiculous ads! 300K/month for a 110sq wah house?

Your post is all your subjective opinion. However,

-- Where is the proof that low rise, older building has higher occupancy rate, and a lot less turnover?

-- You buy a low rise, older unit and spend money to refurbish it, then rent it at a lower price than a new high rise unit. Your rate of return may be about the same as a new condo.

-- A shiny new unit in a new building is a big plus in Thailand and it gives you the pride of ownership. For renters, new high rise building gives them the pride of occupancy.

I'm definitely no expert.All I am is someone looking at craigslist,baht and sold,fair properties and Thai visa classifieds every single day for the last 6 months.Agents have taken over everything.Individual owners are maybe 5% or less.The same properties are listed over and over.Some agents post the same pictures for different advertised units repeatedly.(That makes sense)

I have no real estate background only common sense thinking here that if they're posting the same properties over and over that the majority of properties aren't moving well.

Does the price come down to reflect this?---NO

so I guess this is a TIT thing!!!

In searching the listings daily I see more and even more of the same agent listings(even from 6 months ago)yet no drop in price.

In the old days agents would put in a single ad saying to contact them,now people named frank,gerwin,david,charles,erin,sara,more and more flood what used to be an interesting venue to look for classifieds and have ruined it by reposting overpriced condos repeatedly.How can you stop them?Many of these people post the exact same properties.I think if you look at this as an outsider you would think no-one is buying these expensive condos at those prices after all these months so why don't they drop prices?Well tit.

what's TIT?

Also, when I checked out some re-sell units at Trendy, I noticed most units has no kitchen range hook. Only one has the range hook, but the exhaust fan does not blow to outside, only circulate inside the room, so cooking is not suitable in these units. This building is definitely not grade A, but the resellers are asking grade A prices.

I think Trendy is the same structure built 22 years ago, but was converted to a service apartment in early 90s. When the hotel owner, Khun Chavalit passed away, the property was divided up. Trendy is a refurbishment of the service apartment. And the plot that was Ambassador Plaza became the failed speculative development. Now stood only the Ambassador hotel, a shadow of its past.

I think the ceiling height of the units at Trendy is a bit lower than current standard, although the lobby area seems ok.

What is current standard?

I believe the ceiling height at Trendy is just over 2 m. Their low ceiling height is quite noticable.

Many new grade A condos now have 3m ceiling height. For example, Tonglor 8

see the following craigslist ad:

THB115000 per sq.m., 1+1bed, 1bath Condominium for sale (Thonglor 8)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]

Date: 2009-04-21, 9:49AM ICT

THB115,000 per sq.m., 1+1bed, 1bath Condominium for sale

Size: 86.45 sq.m., 9/F (1+1bed, 1bath, big balcony, 3m. ceiling height, facing south, east)

Price: THB9,941,750 (115,000/sq.m.)

If you are interested in the unit, please give me a call at 66 81 9306691 or email me at [email protected] or for more details at www.8thonglor.com.

Thank you.

it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

PostingID: 1132317129

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I think Trendy is the same structure built 22 years ago, but was converted to a service apartment in early 90s. When the hotel owner, Khun Chavalit passed away, the property was divided up. Trendy is a refurbishment of the service apartment. And the plot that was Ambassador Plaza became the failed speculative development. Now stood only the Ambassador hotel, a shadow of its past.

I think the ceiling height of the units at Trendy is a bit lower than current standard, although the lobby area seems ok.

Why dont you (or anyone) send off an e-mail to Fair Properties, linking this post.

Any business owner with a brain larger than a pea would take this quite serious and answer at least the OP.... A bad reputation spreads fast....

If they dont answer OP and/or directly here on Thaivisa, they are most probably going out of business soon.....

Sure, going out of business and starting with a brand new business name, doing the same scam....very easy.

How much time has been wasted searching the internet and starting new topics on the subject, not to mention the hours it will take on a bus, all for the sake of saving 200 baht.

He travels internationally with a backpack.