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jayjay78
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Posts posted by jayjay78
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Just to clarify, not only do we have the documentary stating clearly that the Autopsy showed he did not die of drowning, the Miller family themselves also make this clear.
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007cableguy, on 02 Mar 2016 - 04:34, said:
I have just watched the program and it states that Lukes cause of death was NOT by drowning!
Yeah, me too. So, the truth is out there finally. Well done, Channel News Asia!
Yes now also looking forward to the other version of the doc thats intended for the UK
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Why did it take this officer atleast 40 minutes to call his boss ?
What was he doing with Mon besides telling people to move the murder weapon. ?
Did he testify ?
He testifies in court that when he got on the scene the clothes were neatly piled on a rock beside! Clearly not true unless they had been moved by Mon prior to that?
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IS it possible to view this programme? Only checked in now and obviously too late. I'm in Ireland, but can VPN if necessary
No VPN necessary http://www.channelnewsasia.com/tv/live
But if in bonny Ireland then you need to check time difference as the next screening is 1.01am Singapore
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I think the documentary did a good job under the circumstances and will not do any harm to the cause of the B2. However we are told there are 2 versions of the programme. Maybe the one for screening in Europe may be more hard hitting.
Its on again at 1.01am Singapore time, I missed the first 30 mins so will stay up to watch again. Yes the UK version is apparently less sanitized
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In Luke Miller's case it comes down to two things:
1) whether you believe the RTP
2) whether you believe the Thai autopsy report
I personally have an open mind on what caused Luke's death and I do not necessarily believe he was murdered, but it can't be ruled out at this stage. His death remains suspicious.
Correct, that about sums it up for me to. Much speculation about it being an accident, much speculation about it being a murder. Currently nothing can be ruled out unless you fall for the rtp version hook line and sinker
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We must all bear in mind that Greenhair has an agenda and that is to get this thread closed, that ploy may be successful, it has worked in the past, but I hope common sense prevails and folk ignore the angle being pushed. There is still a lot of useful information coming forward.
Yes lots of useful info still to come. The KT documentary tonight may shed some further light also. Lets see
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Even if she was warned off, OK for the sake of argument I'll accept it, but then so what? What's it prove? Who warned her off, do we know, does he know, does she know? Does anyone know it's even true? Maybe her kid was sick.....
JLCrab points out the reporter was able to find a new translator that day, so it wasn't really a death defying act to translate.
And example # ( losing count) of relying on what others extrapolate from rumours and then present as facts. I'll call it Argument by Regurgitative Process. ( ARP) and it is the single most used method on this and the Luke Miller death thread to put forth a conspiracy theory.
Maybe her kid was sick......
Perhaps a virus at school then, must have been a few kids off that day.
Our Thai translator at backpacker murder trial says she's been 'warned off' by 'the Mafia'. Elements here clearly fear a fair trial.#kohtao
A contact of mine on Samui tells me no translators are willing to cover #KohTao trial. All have been scared off
Many journalists contacted me today looking 4 translators to cover Koh Tao trial 2mrw as no one willing to do so. Any ideas let me know...
Anyone want to post a list of translators available on Samui ?
Lucky for activists there friend Sarah Yeun was not threatened and seems she had no trouble sourcing a translator while reporting,
You would of thought she would of been more of a target, If we want to talk conspiracies, maybe she got someone to make the mafia threat, she lives in Samui so would of been possible to pay someone to do it, even though Jonathan left the Samui Sarah Kept reporting & one of the media outlets she was reporting for was Sky news (Jonathan's job) so this could have been a form of media control by activists and there cohorts, making sure only there version of events in the courthouse was released to the media.
And still zero evidence of this Mafia man no photo, no description, no details of car bike he was driving,
Seems the only people talking conspiracies is you and moonsterk, I'm just posting what was said by 3 separate people one of which also reported it on Sky News
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Clearly Thai thugs committed the crimes. That the court decided otherwise is protecting them. And as the appeal judges are based in Surat thani they will continue to support their fellow samui judges. Probably the only court that could be independent is Chiang Mai
Clearly they are Burmese that committed the crime and are in jail, if it is the court is protecting them how comes all the truthers are now attacking the defense team & Andy Hall ?
Robert Holmes said at the end of the trial the defense did not do enough to discredit the dna evidence, and if found guilty this would be why,
But if it is so clear that Thais committed the crime maybe you would like to share the evidence you have ?
Its never long before we have to wait for one of your posts bringing up the defense is it.
Well just to keep you up to date, people, even adults sometimes disagree, why hell there can even be differences of opinion between experts in the same subject matter. The difference between mature intelligent adults and juvenile undeveloped humans is that they can usually overcome their difficulties and continue to work together with an outcome that can be even more positive.
Robert Holmes & Ian Yarwood had some disagreements with Andy and the Thai defense lawyers although both concede that it was always the Thai defense lawyers call and Andy never had a say in their decisions, even though Andy wanted Jane called it was the Thai lawyers who disagreed with that.
Just to ram the point home to you. Here is a photo of Robert Holmes and the defense team along with Andy Hall working together with Andy doing the translations into Thai for the lawyers. This was on the 5th Feb
And on the 8th Feb Ian Yarwood said this "everyone now seems to be in agreement and communication has improved"
Looks like a team in action for the appeal.
You can if you wish bookmark this post before you blurb out more misinformation about the defense team at each others throats.
As a back up I'll also bookmark it so I can give you the link if you runaway with yourself again.
Robert Holmes isn't the one who has been attacking AH, its certain activists who used to be close to AH along with Ian Yarwood who even questioned AH's university degree, with the help of these activists Ian Yarwood's open letter was spread all over the internet, against the wishes of some who thought it might damage the B2 chance of a retrial.
Making AH lose face was more important than trying to get freedom for the B2 for a certain activist, which just goes to show how egotistical and self serving some of these people are.
The cat is out the bag and the faults of AH and defense team have been spread all over social media and a photo of RH & AH isn't going to change that.
Yes i do make exceptions for people with your view point as stated in my post. Those that cannot grasp change cannot grasp reality.
"The difference between mature intelligent adults and juvenile undeveloped humans is that they can usually overcome their difficulties and continue to work together with an outcome that can be even more positive."
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Even if she was warned off, OK for the sake of argument I'll accept it, but then so what? What's it prove? Who warned her off, do we know, does he know, does she know? Does anyone know it's even true? Maybe her kid was sick.....
JLCrab points out the reporter was able to find a new translator that day, so it wasn't really a death defying act to translate.
And example # ( losing count) of relying on what others extrapolate from rumours and then present as facts. I'll call it Argument by Regurgitative Process. ( ARP) and it is the single most used method on this and the Luke Miller death thread to put forth a conspiracy theory.
Maybe her kid was sick......
Perhaps a virus at school then, must have been a few kids off that day.
Our Thai translator at backpacker murder trial says she's been 'warned off' by 'the Mafia'. Elements here clearly fear a fair trial.#kohtao
A contact of mine on Samui tells me no translators are willing to cover #KohTao trial. All have been scared off
Many journalists contacted me today looking 4 translators to cover Koh Tao trial 2mrw as no one willing to do so. Any ideas let me know...
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.. so how do you account for the rumour just hours after the deaths that there was an altercation in AC bar- excellent Chetzee, who was the quarrel between?
Police new but failed to check:
The defence asked the colonel about a rumour that a third man pictured in CCTV on a motorbike with the two accused was a man called Muang Muang.
The man is rumoured to have had a row with the Headman’s son in a bar earlier that night, and Mr Miller was said to have intervened.
Colonel Chiewpreecha answered: ‘I have heard the rumour and I believe the Koh Tao police followed it up.’
But he added that as it was a rumour, it had not been investigated further, and the police had lost contact with the third man.
They also failed to check the alleged speedboat leaving at dawn
When Colonel Chiewpreecha was asked about a small boat that was seen leaving the island before dawn, about the time the bodies were discovered, he admitted he knew nothing about it and there had been no investigation.
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Clearly Thai thugs committed the crimes. That the court decided otherwise is protecting them. And as the appeal judges are based in Surat thani they will continue to support their fellow samui judges. Probably the only court that could be independent is Chiang Mai
Clearly they are Burmese that committed the crime and are in jail, if it is the court is protecting them how comes all the truthers are now attacking the defense team & Andy Hall ?
Robert Holmes said at the end of the trial the defense did not do enough to discredit the dna evidence, and if found guilty this would be why,
But if it is so clear that Thais committed the crime maybe you would like to share the evidence you have ?
Its never long before we have to wait for one of your posts bringing up the defense is it.
Well just to keep you up to date, people, even adults sometimes disagree, why hell there can even be differences of opinion between experts in the same subject matter. The difference between mature intelligent adults and juvenile undeveloped humans is that they can usually overcome their difficulties and continue to work together with an outcome that can be even more positive.
Robert Holmes & Ian Yarwood had some disagreements with Andy and the Thai defense lawyers although both concede that it was always the Thai defense lawyers call and Andy never had a say in their decisions, even though Andy wanted Jane called it was the Thai lawyers who disagreed with that.
Just to ram the point home to you. Here is a photo of Robert Holmes and the defense team along with Andy Hall working together with Andy doing the translations into Thai for the lawyers. This was on the 5th Feb
And on the 8th Feb Ian Yarwood said this "everyone now seems to be in agreement and communication has improved"
Looks like a team in action for the appeal.
You can if you wish bookmark this post before you blurb out more misinformation about the defense team at each others throats.
As a back up I'll also bookmark it so I can give you the link if you runaway with yourself again.
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Look where
Laura Witheridge
21 hrs ·
So, as some of you may have already seen- there has been another death of yet another British National on koh tao. I wasn’t going to post anything, not until I logged on here this morning to see that a friend had shared the link warning people not to go there… it wasn’t the sharing of the link or the warning that triggered this lengthy status, as I hope people do share these things and try and warn people not to go… it was the ignorant comment someone had made about how Thailand is ‘the most beautiful place in the world’ that frustrated me this morning. Aesthetically, on a postcard or photograph, maybe… However, literally… I have to disagree. Lots of things ‘look’ beautiful. You only have to consider a lion, or tiger… beautiful to look at, yes… but get too close and they will tear you apart and feed you to their young. My point being that aesthetic beauty can lure you into a very dangerous trap.
Since Hannah was taken from us, I am continually asked whether I will warn the World about the dangers of Thailand… I am asked if I will warn people because I might just ‘save someone’s life’. This person’s comment serves as a perfect example of why I would be wasting my time. People can be ignorant and many, probably the majority, have very short memories. Countless times, I have logged in to facebook and seen statuses made by people who know both Hannah and I, who have gone out there anyway. They think it wont happen to them… Well, guess what? Neither did we. No one is immune. Many thai’s hate westeners and they have little to no regard for human life. I don’t say this lightly, or without reason. Let me share a few facts with you about this ‘beautiful’ place you speak of…
Many of the thai people have no regard for human life. My evidence for this statement: firstly, some quotes of the things said to my bereaved, heart broken family by the judges and court officials at the trial of the two Burmese migrants-
* “why are you here? Why do you care? She is dead already”
* “why are you so bothered? Just go home and make another one”
* “why are you making such a fuss, she will be back in 30 days as
something else, she may have better luck next time”
Would it surprise you if I told you that the thai’s view drug possession as a more serious offence than rape or murder? Or that the vast majority of the thai police force are corrupt? What if I told you that when we went to Thailand to bring Hannah home, we were offered the opportunity to go to the Royal Thai police headquarters for an ‘official update’… but that, on arrival, we were taken into a large room, left for 5 minutes before the door opened and around 200 journalists were allowed into the room and we were ambushed by this mob of hungry journalists shoving cameras in our faces… The thai police chief had no intentions of giving us an update… after all, the bungled investigation meant he had nothing to tell us. The invitation was so that he could make money out of our misery. The press had paid him generously for 5 minutes to capture photographs of our family. The photograph on this post serves as evidence of this: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/…/we-need-digest-trial-outcome-s…
What if I told you that since we lost Hannah there have been many more suspicious deaths on koh tao. You probably haven’t heard of them all, as not all were British Nationals. The deaths, where possible, are covered up as suicides and accidents. This would have happened with Hannah, if it had not been for the hideous brutality of her passing. I highly suspect that with this latest tragedy, the thai’s will say that it was an accidental death caused by drugs. Hiding the truth and offering a story that suits, is something that they do often… My thoughts are with Luke Miller’s family and friends.
What if I told you that I have had many death threats from thai people since they murdered my sister? That they defaced photographs of me saying that the killers had only done ‘half the job’… what if I told you that people commented on these photographs saying things like ‘there is still time’, and ‘tick tock tick tock’. What if I told you that I have been sent crime scene photographs? What if I told you that I have been chased in my car? What if I told you that the thais offered us ‘compensation’ to try and keep us quiet? Obviously we were absolutely appalled and told them to shove it.
What if I told you that I am now frightened of my own shadow? That I am constantly looking over my shoulder? That I am exhausted, but frightened to sleep because of the nightmares? I miss my sister desperately. My heart is heavy and my mind is tired.
Still think Thailand is beautiful? If your answer is still ‘yes’ then I would suggest you watch the following:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRi8AqoXxio&app=desktop
Please feel free to share this post
https://www.facebook.com/laura.witherid…/…/10153150628116986
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So now we get a taste of how this thread is going. Engage at your peril. Eventually, every attempt at responding will be met by two or three verbose replies full of infuriating deceit and misdirection, and the thread will soon go haywire. Just look at the Luke Miller thread to see where this one's going.
Nothing's changed. Nowadays, I refrain for engaging with any that post inflammatory comments. If a poster is not going to accept an account by a reputable Sky News reporter, then that's his problem, not mine. Although speculation, I wouldn't be surprised if more people were threatened by the Thai mafia, but kept quiet.
Clearly, AH is an irritant to Thai authorities, but he's high enough profile as to be only subjected to repeat court appearances and ongoing hassle. It is also my understanding that the Appeals court examine only the written appeal, which must be based on the existing 'evidence', and do not call upon any witnesses while considering their verdict. In which case, AH would not be called before the court.
Thats also how its been explained to me. The appeal is a paperwork exercise, there will be no expert witnesses from the defense or prosecution in attendance. The Aus experts will be submitting their reports as affidavit, thats one of the reasons its taken longer to prepare as all the translations need to be perfect.
All this talk by some that the appeal process is going to go down the pan because of having western lawyers/experts at the appeal court is nonsense. There are no plans for this to happen unless the appeal judges specifically request this.
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Yep, there you with the name calling, does your "cause" absolutely no good, just shows your frustration. You just don’t get it, these killers were apprehended and charged and convicted. The prosecution and defence presented their case and provide counter arguments. They had the power of the judicial process to protect their rights.
& they still have a right of appeal
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Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.
This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?
Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.
Do you think Sky News would also name the translator LOL
Responsible press would make a statement to the effect of the translator wished to remain anonymous. Why not here? Because the reporter is reprinting hearsay, is why.
How can anyone seriously take this crap as fact ? It's hearsay and I think there is a concerted effort to make a lot of this hearsay and conjecture accepted as fact on this thread, which is why I will continue to point out this dis-information.
Why would people do it? They lke to feel involved, they like having erred meme circulated endlessly on FB - they like attention, adoration and assorted internet stroking.
Crab kindly posted his twitter account. Why don't you ask him directly if your so unhappy with his reporting, please come back and report with an update, until then I have other things to do but promise to find time to ignore you when I return.
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Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?
The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.
I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.
While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?
Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".
http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence
Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.
This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?
Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.
Do you think Sky News would also name the translator LOL
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Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?
The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.
I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.
While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?
Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".
http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence
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Oh thank you aleg for bringing that to the forum attention.
I have read parts of it, but will read in full later. The noids will certainly be upset, but at the end of the day we should read all of the information available. I see that Davids inquest is in.
Yes better catch up on your homework seems your lagging somewhat dear, this was first brought to the forums and everyone elses attention when Andy Hall first tweeted it 5 weeks ago. [noids].............bless
Jan 13, 2016 - Andy Hall @Atomicalandy Jan 13. MWRN Justice: Koh Tao Murder Case fundraiser provides full court verdict English translation ...
I wonder if Andy Hall, being on trial himself for defamation and generally disrespecting Thailand in many migrant labor issue-( all deserved no doubt,) was a detriment factor to the Burmese boys defense.
Not questioning his motives, (though have read some interesting arguments pertaining to that-) but to have him sitting there, did it grate upon the judges I wonder?
Guess you'll have to keep on wondering
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Oh thank you aleg for bringing that to the forum attention.
I have read parts of it, but will read in full later. The noids will certainly be upset, but at the end of the day we should read all of the information available. I see that Davids inquest is in.
Yes better catch up on your homework seems your lagging somewhat dear, this was first brought to the forums and everyone elses attention when Andy Hall first tweeted it 5 weeks ago. [noids].............bless
Jan 13, 2016 - Andy Hall @Atomicalandy Jan 13. MWRN Justice: Koh Tao Murder Case fundraiser provides full court verdict English translation ...
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I agree. Could you repost that court record about Ren Ren.
And the original confession, prehuman rights and changed story after human rights.
Keep those little sods right up front before we get bombarded with tales of nomsod by the noids.
I think, in a way, that would be giving in to trolling, but I think this outbursts of paranoia are very telling.
The full document of the verdict report is available in both the original Thai version and English translation.
Since that document reflects the outcome of the trial, where the arguments of the prosecution and defense were presented in full and contested by each other it represents the most accurate summation of relevant events and evidence about the case.
Then people can compare and contrast that with make believe scenarios and see what makes more sense.
Thats a little misleading, the arguments of the prosecution and defense are certainly not presented in full, the summary is just that, a report on the judges decision and reasoning for it. The lack of defense arguments within the report is profound and appear not to have been taken into account at all, there is no mention for example of Dr Pornthips very lengthy testimony. To use this report and say it provides a piece of work that demonstrates all the relevant events is false.
Over 4,000 Pages of court reports have been gone over by the defense for the appeal. Yes all the missing arguments from the summary and points that the defense appeal will be contesting.
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It says they may not have held the weapon even.
Meaning. ..
EVEN IF. ......They never held the weapon they would still be accountable because they were there.
I never said they did not hold the weapon and were only accomplices .
Oh, great now I am an imposter pretending to be greenchair, so I can protect the real killers from being found out.
Paid of course. Lol
GC, everybody can read what it says, its there in black and white, 2 very conflicting statements written.
Seeing as you brought up financial incentives. Would you like to be paid? I heard you do.
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if some posters have business interests on Koh Tao and are so-called shills, wouldn't it be in their interest to have the real killers caught? After all if the real killers get away with it they might strike again and that would surely not be good for business.
Who knows what the strategy is, why would mafia threaten the translators at Samui court? According to the vanished post the reach extends to Samui and Bangkok, not just Koh Tao
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This case seems some what the same as the Brit dies of alcohol poisoning in Thailand after 36-HOUR bender in which he drank four buckets of vodka and Red Bull and 20 lagers
plus their were reports of him doing magic mushrooms via his facebook page .. Anyway rest in peace
I'm surprised more of these party-time visitors aren't dropping dead the mass amounts of alcohol consumed along with lord knows what else they are ingesting. I guess the young body can withstand a lot of abuse. It's when they start climbing around on heights they really tempt fate.
Was Luke cremated, does anyone know?
In your previous post you said this
I believe the body was cremated in UK
Now your asking people here if he was cremated.
What else in your previous posts are made up of your beliefs dressed as facts
British man found dead on Koh Tao
in Koh Samui News
Posted
Inquest is not complete in the UK no decision can be given yet let alone open verdict. Yes apparently you do have to go through this again. The decision given is that he did not die of drowning, can you understand that?