tangoll

Not sure exactly why my father's and mother's name were requested; I think it's used as a check by Land Dept office to ensure that no one is masquerading as the chanote title holder to sell a property in a fraudulent way. As for marriage or divorce certificate, it probably has to do with farang/Thai lady marriages and whether the Thai lady would have a claim on the property in the event of a divorce. Not sure, really, but the developer, Asian Property, wanted these documents to do each transfer that I have done with them.

You need to confirm with the developer what documents you need to provide in order to do the transfer of ownership from developer to you. In the past, I have supplied following documents to a developer to do transfer for me:

1. copies of my passport (if you are non-Thai)

2. copy of my birth certificate showing mother and father's name

3. copy of marriage or divorce certificate

4. original of Foreign Exchange Transaction Form showing converted baht amount exceeds the

transaction value to be used at transfer of ownership. These orginals are kept by Land Dept office and

not returned to the transferring parties. When repatriating funds upon sale of condo, Bangkok Bank

has never asked to see copy of FETF's showing import of funds. The reason that BB is not interested

in the FETF is that there is no trace on FETF showing which condo transaction the FETF was used for.

Other documents are required for the export of funds, but not the FETF.

5. A Power of Attorney if developer is to represent you at the Lands Dept.

6. Bank cheque for the final installment plus fees due to developer and Lands Dept.

This is pretty much complete list of documents that you have to supply to developer, but you should ask your developer what is needed.

zen, I have to tell you that you are one of very few, who after asking for advice, getting it, then coming back to say "thank you".

Zen, the answer is yes, you can pay A or B or C or D with local funds. This is payment to developer; it matters not where the funds come from.

Getting approval from Lands Dept to transfer ownership is a separate matter. You must have the FETF's showing an amount equal to or greater than E to get the transfer of ownership from developer to you. Where the remitted funds of E are actually or eventually used is up to you as a separate matter. You need not show that the remitted funds of E were paid to developer.

I assume you are not a Thai national, that the title of the condo will be in your name, and that you are buying from a developer. If so, you need to ask a question of the developer:

E. What is the number that the developer will use as the transaction value to be supplied to Lands Dept office when doing the transfer of ownership from the developer to you? Normally, E =A+B+C, but it may be different.

This is when the developer has completed the job and you have to pay the remaining balance, being C. At that time, you need to supply to the developer forms known as "Foreign Exchange Transaction Form" which you get from your receiving bank showing that you have remitted into Thailand foreign funds that when converted into Thai baht is equal to or greater than the value of E. Ask your receiving bank about how to obtain this form and what is the minimum amount that must be remitted in each remittance to have this form issued. Instruction on the remittance must state that funds are for "purchase of condominium".

How you pay for A, B, C, and D can be from local funds or from remitted funds. But you have to supply the FETF's to Lands Dept for them to transfer ownership of the condo to you. This assumes also that the total non-Thai ownership of the condo project will not exceed 49%.

Actual case: Condo unit transferred in Sept 2010

Prior transfer date: August 2008, thus 3 years used in tax calculation

Transaction Value: 4.1 mil baht

Total Tax/Fees paid to Land Office: 287,000 baht, or 7% of transaction value.

nbg, what's with the snide comment? You come here asking for free advice, boater offers a reasonable comment, and you get all uppity, whereas a "thank you" would be more appropriate.

Well there are a couple of items and documents that you haven't mentioned, but with your attitude, fcuked if I'm going to mention them.

Good luck.

ooovavu, thanks for info. Mind adding a few more details, such as approx location of building, age of building, when you purchased and approx cost, and any special aspects on each deal. Also interesting would be what kind of buyer bought -- Thai or farang, age, gender, intended use.

Great info.

tangoll

Why are so many posters here trying to show how clever they are? Just give us the specifics of any property that you have bought or sold in the recent past. Let the facts speak for how clever you are in your deals.

Mjo, give us the facts of your BKK townhouse purchase -- location, age, size, price paid, etc. No one is going to be able to track you down as to your identity or deal. No need to state how clever you are; we readers can figure that out all by ourselves.

And no need to analyze the market or give us your conclusions. What we are trying to do with this thread is to build up some real transactions data so that each reader can come to his or her own conclusions. How difficult is that to understand?

hhgz, what exactly is a "simple transfer". I think what the OP wants to do is more complicated than merely going to the Lands Dept office and asking them to cross out two names and insert a single new name on the chanote. I doubt if the sale/rental office or juristic office would have any idea how to accomplish this.

123ace, no one gives a sh!t about your analysis and conclusion. Keep them to yourself. If you have some factual data or information, then just post it here and let each reader draw his/her own conclusion; we are all quite capable of doing that. Your post has zero value in this thread.

Thought I would revive this thread. Some factual information: my 1 bed, 52 sqm condo, 21st floor facing west, at Condo One X. Bought Aug 2008 for 4.1 mil baht brand new, lived in it until Feb 2010, and put on market for sale then, but little activity until July, then sold on Aug 21, 2010 for transfer in one month. Sale price 4.4 mil baht, but facing higher transfer fees/tax plus commission. Condo One X is on Sukhumvit soi 26, but too far from BTS, and is not top tier development, so most owners are investors holding units for renting out. Not sure if new buyer will use for own self or for renting out.

Market is starting to pick up but not dramatically. But decent prices for decent property at least have held up, and not fallen, and if you calculate in either US$, sterling, or euro, you would still have profit due to strengthening Thai baht.

What you wish to do would involve a separate sale and transfer of ownership of each condo to each one of you. I think you should probably consult a lawyer to help you do this to minimize transfer tax/fees (especially if the condo is at or near 5 year limit for relaxing the Specific Business Tax), etc. But the complication would be that each new purchase would involve having to import new funds, and obtaining the Foreign Exchange Transaction Form for each transaction, assuming that either or both are non-Thais.

Would it be easier just to sell each condo unit to unrelated buyers, share the proceeds, and each of you then can do what you wish with your share -- buy a new condo in your own name, rent, etc. Nevertheless, you need to check on the time limit for SBT; note that the calculation of what constitutes the 5 year limit is not the normal way one would assume is 5 years of ownership.

Has anyone tried out ballroom dance (like waltz, tango, etc) at BIDA studio on 2nd floor of Peninsula Plaza on Rajdamri Road, next to Grand Hyatt? I tried to find out a few other studios via Google, but it seems this BIDA is really the only game in Bangkok. They want 8,000 baht as an initial purchase for 10 lessons, which compared to other cities (HK, London, etc) is not expensive, but if the instruction is of low quality, then no matter how low the charge, it's not worth it.

I've seen some of the local dance talent at the Shangri-la Hotel Sunday afternoon tea dance in the lobby lounge, but I don't know if any of the instructors from BIDA were there to dance.

Anyone have any experience with ballroom dance in Bangkok, or know of any instructor? I'm male, and have no partner in Bangkok, so need a female instructor that I can dance with, or a male instructor with a female assistant that I can dance with.

Thanks.

"If you are looking for authoritative legal or tax advise you should always consult a reputable lawyer or accountant. "

I would say "knowledgeable" might be preferable than "reputable". True story, I kid you not. About five years ago, there was an exhibition of Thai property in Hong Kong, and a "reputable" law firm from Phuket had a farang lawyer host a seminar on the legal ins and outs of buying property in Thailand. On the issue of the Foreign Exchange Transaction Form (formerly known as Tor Tor 3), he said that form is issued by the Bank of Thailand and that after import of funds, you need to allot about one week's time in order to apply for and obtain this form from the BOT. At that time, I had already done 2 of these import transfers, and I said at the seminar, that at Bangkok Bank in their head office on Silom Road in Bangkok, it takes all of 45 minutes to get the form from the bank department handling the import of funds. Needless to say, he was not a happy lawyer to obtain actual experience on a matter that he had presented himself as an expert on.

samcharoen, nowhere in my post did I say that transaction value is or is not the selling price or cost of the real estate. The transaction value technically is declared by the seller and not the buyer because the seller is responsible for actual payment of the tax/fees due. (In actual practice, these tax/fees can be negotiated to be shared, but the receipt from the Lands Dept is issued to the name of the seller.) In the case of a transfer from a developer's project, the developer declares what the transaction value is (normally the contracted sales price), and you as buyer have no way to separate out what is the furniture and fixtures portion of that transaction value, or any other item that's built into the transaction value, like profit, expenses, etc. I have never met a developer who willingly will separate out the fixtures portion of the contracted sales price to reduce the transaction value to be declared, and I have dealt with Sansiri, Plus Property, Noble Development, and Asian Property, all big Thai property developers.

The key point is that the buyer better find out what transaction value will be declared at transfer of ownership and make sure his FETF's cover that amount. Don't even think that importing 80% of the sales price, alloting 20% for F+F, would be sufficient for the FETF.

The post from samcharoen is helpful, especially if it is correct. Unfortunately, there are some errors in it, and an omission. For non-Thais, the funds you bring into Thailand to purchase a condo must be equal to or greater than the amount that you declare as the transaction value of the condo at the time of transfer of ownership. It doesn't matter if it is all condo, part furniture and fixtures, or whatever. The amounts totalled on the Foreign Exchange Transaction Form(s) supplied by the bank must be equal to or greater than that transaction value.

If you rent your unit out, there is also tax on the rental receipts. You need to look into more detail on this, as I have no experience in renting out condo units.

In order to expatriate funds, Bangkok Bank requires very specific documents to support your application to convert Thai baht and export the converted foreign funds. You need to find out from whichever bank you use, exactly what documents must be supplied to them. It's easy to say, "supporting documents", but your assumption of what are "supporting" documents may be inconsistent with what the bank requires.

If you are working in Thailand and have a work permit, banks have some additional provisions for allowing you to set up special accounts that will enable you to satisfy the requirements for getting the FETF's. There are some threads on thaivisa forum that address this very specific issue and you should search for them to learn more.

In the past, Bangkok Bank branch in Singapore and UOB Singapore had offered non-Thai baht loans for property purchase in Thailand, but the terms and conditions were so onerous that I have never heard of anyone actually using this facility.

Be careful of following advice from thaivisa postings. Some helpful in general but a lot are lacking in specifics and wrong on the details.

I am only talking about condo units, and have dealt with several real estate agents in Bangkok. I have sold 2 condo units direct to buyers thru prakard.com, and have sold two units via an agent (same one on both deals). An agent in this market who can find and close a deal with a buyer is worth his/her weight in gold, assuming your property is reasonably priced for its location and value. Any agent can help you buy, but precious few can help you close a deal as a seller. On the first deal, I paid the agent 1.5% commission, and on the second deal, just completed two days ago, I consented to pay the agent 2.5% commission. In Bangkok condo sales, most deals with agents are on non-exclusive basis and most don't even sign any agency agreement with you, and upon a sale, you as seller can always negotiate how much the commission is. The big agencies, like CBRE, insist on 3% + VAT, but all the actual agents from CBRE that I have dealt with haven't come up with any solid deals or even offers. Same with Jones Lang Lasalle.

You have to find the agent that is a real hustler, but most are not, and only sit around hoping a buyer somehow shows up on his/her doorstep.

As a buyer, I will only deal direct or thru the agent who has sold something for me.

I am buying a condo in Satorn for ten million baht. I also wanted to try using a firm like www.hifx.co.uk but now I have read this post, I think its safer I keep using my UK bank and transfer in pound stirling each month, even if it is costing me £22 to do it. I would rather be safe than sorry.

PJ28UK, I saw your PM to me, but cannot figure out how to reply directly to your query. You can always email me directly pcmar at netvigator dot com if you wish. Generally my advice would be for you to control the entire transaction. That means, a local Thai bank account in your name (same name as you will use for property purchase), transfer only foreign currency (pounds sterling, USD, or Euro, for example), specify on transfer document that purpose is for purchase of condominium unit (no need to specify name or address of condo or even developer's name), upon receipt at your local Thai bank, this bank will convert to Thai baht at their rate, then you request Thai bank to issue you FETF (Foreign Exchange Transaction Form), and this original must be delivered to Land Dept office when the developer/you will do the transfer of ownership to your name. The total amount of transferred baht on FETF's (can be more than one) must exceed transaction amount of the condo unit being transferred. Unused excessive amount on FETF's will be lost and cannot be used for future transactions, so plan your transfers carefully. Each transfer should exceed equivalent of USD 20,000 for bank to issue FETF.

I would not transfer amount directly into developer's account. People here will tell you that retaining a copy of the FETF's is essential for when you sell the condo and wish to remit funds out of Thailand. When I did that, the Bangkok Bank had no interest in seeing copies of the FETF's used on import; the export of funds required a completely new and different set of documents. If you search you may find where I have listed such documents required by Bangkok Bank; I haven't done export by other banks so don't know about them.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have bought and sold several condo properties in Bangkok (as a non-Thai national), and in your friend's case, as the owner and seller, I would never have agreed to transfer the ownership of the condo unit either under the right of redemption or enter into joint ownership with the buyer. For one thing, with transfer taxes/fees going back to normal levels, depending on number of years used in tax/fees calculation, you want to avoid multiple ownership transfers. Even if right of redemption is available, I'm sure trying to get back ownership under redemption rights can't be so easy or straightforward. Under the joint ownership arrangement, the joint owners would be responsible for maintenance fees, insurances, increase in sinking fund, etc of the property, and any contingent liabilities that the owners of a condo unit might incur, such as leakage into the condo unit below, etc.

If I were the seller, and offering to help a buyer with deferred payments, I would offer the buyer a regular sales and purchase contract which offers the buyer the right of occupancy under a set of payment terms (somewhat like a rental with option to purchase), and will transfer the condo unit only after all payments have been received. The buyer would have the protection of the S+P Agreement plus right of occupancy, maybe with a separate rental agreement.

Thanks for all the replies and advice. I would like to be able to have a line go direct from the fan unit to the circuit breaker box, but the distance is about 10 meters and the line cannot really be concealed inside the walls, so quite unsightly if done that way. I guess for the time being, I will just have to suffer the noise from the cassette type A/C unit.

Hi, I have a question about adding a small 9,000 BTU split unit air con to an room which already has a larger aircon unit (about 18,000 BTU) cassette type installed in the ceiling but the existing unit is very loud at night when it's on during sleep, even at low fan. The new A/C fan unit can be installed on the wall next to balcony and the condenser unit can be installed in the balcony which has a drain. My question concerns the electrical line. Can I just plug the line from the fan unit into a 2 pin plug socket normally used for a TV or floor lamp, or does the line have to go direct to a spare breaker/line at the switch box? What if there are no more spare lines at the main switch box? Does the condenser unit need its own electrical line/plug?

The new A/C unit I'm thinking of getting is a Samsung inverter unit which I am told at low fan is only about 19 decibels, which is the lowest amongst the brands normally handled by Homepro -- Mitsubishi, LG, Hitachi, Panasonic, Daikin, etc. I would only use the new unit during sleep, and even though small in BTU, should be sufficient to keep the room cool at night.

It would not really be practical to change the existing cassette type unit in the ceiling.

Actually, I saw one Whirlpool top loader with a vertical spinning drum, that also has heat water function. The cost is about 24,000 baht. This one is unlike the normal Japanese make top loaders with the horizontal spin tub and no hot water function. I saw this Whirlpool unit at either Emporium or Paragon department store, home appliance section.

These top loaders are narrow in width only about 18 inches (40 cm) across, and are very common in HK because of narrow width, but not so common in Bangkok.

The real memorials to destruction do not get rebuilt, such as the atomic bomb memorials in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Chernobyl, the World Trade Center in New York Ciity (even though plans are to rebuild it), and Pompeii. Leave the burnt out hulk of CW as it is, open only the part that can be opened, and, if in the future, the red shirts want to gather again in Bangkok, let them gather inside the burnt out hulk, and keep them there.

What happens with air flights that arrive 11;30 pm, and passengers have to get to hotels, homes, etc after midnight? Still OK if can show a passport and travel documents? How can taxis be exempt from curfew?

I would like to share two messages about recent problems. The writer is Thai-Chinese in origin, but 100% Thai in outlook, lives in Korat, has own business, and also owns a condo in Bangkok where her two daughters live. Highly educated, speaks/writes English as you can see below (without alteration from me), and is learning Mandarin Chinese now. I had asked her opinion as to whether it is now safe to travel to Bangkok.

------Beginning of 1st message

You can book your ticket in advance. Right now, no one know the

> real situation. During these two days, it is on curfew. We will have

> to see in next week. The school in Bangkok will start and open on this

> coming Monday. BTS and MRT continue to close to repair the damage. I

> read the slight news that the red might gather again soon. It is so

> ridiculous that gov. has to pay the money for those red to go back home

> for bus fare. They lined up and get money. Gov. had to feed them

> and offered free bus , free train to go back even up to Chiangmai. I

> saw from TV, when they got down from train, they raised their red

> symbol, flag and whatever to show they were still proud and returned

> home as hero. People got mad at the red and Abhisit is blamed for

> treating the red leaders in such a good living at the house beside

> the Hua Hin beach. They are supposed to be in jail. This question must

> be cleared by gov. The gov. said this is under the duty of

> police!!!!!! Oh! this is Thailand. Things turn upside down and we

> people suffer. Personally, I don't blamed Taksin totally. It is what

> kind of Thai people is. King Chulalongkorn had reduced slaves from

> Thailand over one hundred yeas ago but still Thai people is bounded to

> be slaves by instinct forever. Slaved of money that Taksin threw upon

> them. Taksin is just a too smart person to know how to make use

> of country's money. He cheats and earns power from that money.

>

> I hope you shall be able to come as schedule. If anything goes

> wrong, I certainly will inform you. I also plan to go to Bangkok in

> next two days to join the funeral of my friend's father. I don't want

> to go at all but this is necessary. Unless there is arson

> and shooting then I will have to stay home only.

-------2nd message

> The time you will be in Bangkok next month, I will see if I can be there too.

I don't feel like going at all during this moment. Yesterday (my daughter) asked

my permission to go out doing public cleaning with her friends. I strongly refuse

because I am not sure all the mob area is clean of the bomb or not.

Beside, the place is too dirty. (My daughter) might possibly bring disease back home.

The red created the shit and we have to clean, what a world!!!!!!

Good idea to watch first before booking. From now on you will be able to fly Bkk-Hkg

with a very good and cheap cost. No tourists want to visit Thailand now.

In front of CTW Central World, (My brother) told me there are words attaching there

"This is how they repay us". It is because while the red put their stage in front of CTW,

CTW offered them toilets and underground parking place to use. It is so ungrateful to

arson and stole CTW.

---------End of message (I deleted names of individuals)

Some posters here will undoubtedly dismiss her comments as being typical of the Thai-Chinese that the red shirts are protesting about, but I think she views the situation in a way much clearer than most Thais, and certainly with greater clarity than any of the non-Thais who usually post here. She had consented to my posting her comments here.