Mr Grumpy

Welcome back Rooster…. I had feared that you had perhaps “hit too close to the mark” with a few of your diatribes and had joined the “club” of the disappeared. What a relief to see you have resurfaced… Take care. Hopefully your mind has now cleared and remains clear. Love you or hate you, you are needed. I’ve yet to decide which camp I’m in so please keep going until I decide…. :)

You may wish to consider Staysure insurance. I too am over 75 (or rather, am 75, but Thai companies consider a day over 75 to be 76).  my Staysure coverage is for 12 Months and was far cheaper than any Thai Covid insurance. Coverage is for 90 day trips, which was perfect for my situation. (https://www.staysure.co.uk)

54 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

I’m sure the missing animal will turn up in someone’s private collection 

No, complete white off.....

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

True that. Away with the regressive minded dinosaurs. Let the youth have their chance to run the nation. It will happen sooner or later anyway. So, why run the economy into the ground first? 

Why? It's obvious why. You have to drain the 'honeypot' first.

16 hours ago, Orac said:

I am waiting for them to suggest dinosaurs on the islands to bring in the baht.

Sorry, the dinosaurs are too busy in Bangkok this year!

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

This is the third time i have posted this, but it is still quite relevant.

 

I think it is time for Thailand to re-evaluate its Virus Response policy.

 

Thailand has been following a 'Zero-Tolerance' policy, but I think it is time to move to a 'Managed-Tolerance' policy. I make this suggestion based mainly on two factors; I think it is inevitable that the virus will return to Thailand and a calm, managed response is more effective than hysteria. Secondly, the economic damage being done to millions is more harmful than the virus itself and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

 

We recently saw new cases in Vietnam, and I think that we are going to see new cases in Thailand soon; like most people I take the government's claim of zero cases with a grain of salt, although it seems like they have done a very good job overall. However, I don't think it can last. A better policy is to prepare, both medically and in terms of public opinion/education, for the return of the virus. Is this a radical idea? No, not really. Members will recall the phrase "flatten the curve", but perhaps a reminder is needed that the idea is to manage the virus so that the health system isn't overwhelmed; a policy of Zero Tolerance is incompatible with an open society and/or open economy. It is time to re-enforce the precautions needed, but also to allow for an economic re-start which includes outsiders/foreigners. A final point; humanity's best minds and a boat-load of resources are being thrown at the problem. This global effort, propelled by the power of competition, is expected to produce a vaccine either this year or early next year while treatments are being developed and refined daily; we as a species are going to beat this scourge, and relatively soon.

 

The economic damage being done to Thailand is immense. Yes, I know that we don't hear about it too much, but there is a reason for that. The people talking in the (not quite free) Media are almost all in a 'Virus-Proof' economic situation; they aren't directly affected so they don't feel the urgency of fixing the problem. Firm numbers are difficult to come by, but it seems around 6-9 million Thais are very badly hurt by the economic fall-out of the virus, and those people need to be both helped and heard. The damage done to these people is egregious and growing worse; some government support is being withdrawn, the option of 'Go Back to the Farm' isn't really possible anymore (and not a great idea regardless), and they will soon need more food and rent support to survive. Further, many aren't well-educated and don't have transferable skills, so their options are limited. Finally, even before Covid-19, their economic situation was in decline; it is in free-fall now and they can't be ignored. Simply put, plans for their economic regeneration must to be formulated now and implemented soon.

 

When people are hungry, all bets are off.

 

How to proceed?

 

It is the beginning of August; continue/speed up the current repatriation policy 'as is', but ramp up the public education aspect of change. Announce that by October 1st (perhaps Nov. 1st?) that the airspace around Thailand will be open to commercial air travel, long-term tourists (Snow-Birds who 'winter' here), remaining residents and retirees will be allowed to return with a few restrictions (test before boarding or on arrival, reasonable insurance, self-isolation at home on arrival, etc. BUT no mandatory state quarantine), implement common sense visa issuance (sorry Floridians and Texans!) and most of all prepare the Thai people for the idea that although there will be cases of the virus, they will be managed, and the benefits of re-opening are a risk worth taking. Yes, the end of mandatory state quarantine is essential if this is going to work; I believe that the long-term visitors will respect the self-isolation policy and Thailand's million strong public health volunteers can monitor them, but they won't come if they are going to be locked up. Moreover, the selection of the residents/retirees and 'Snow-Birds' as an initial group isn't accidental; these people already know the Kingdom and understand life within it, are good 'testers' of a new system, have a lot of money to spend, and can be excellent examples of a working policy of re-opening. Finally, allowing these kinds of visitors would build confidence, test whether short-term tourists could actually visit (I think not yet, but...), and help protect the tourism infrastructure from further and/or irreparable damage.

 

There are those who will argue that it is better to keep the borders closed and wait this out, and I honestly have trouble arguing against that idea (I don't want to catch the <deleted> thing). However, those who make that point rarely take the next step; what do you do with the 6-9 million people damaged by the current policy? Will those that advocate for closed borders take in homeless people? If so, how many? One family? Two families? Three? Will those that advocate for closed borders give up a percentage of their salaries/pensions to help? If so, how much? 25%? 35%? 45%? Will those that advocate for closed borders pay school fees and related costs for all the children of unemployed/underemployed parents? How many kids? One? Five? Twenty? The question isn't merely an intellectual exercise, it has real-world implications and consequences. 

 

If you want those 6-9 million people to sacrifice for you, what are you going to sacrifice for them?

 

To sum up, I think that the question of whether or not to keep the border closed is incomplete. The question should be: if you keep the border closed, then what will you do for the 6-9 million people economically-eviscerated by the response to the virus? Opening the Kingdom to visitors in November for the high season would likely see a few cases of the virus, but the Thai medical system can handle that (it did before, right?) until a vaccine is widely available. It would begin the process of re-starting the tourism industry in Thailand (20% of GDP!!!), begin the process of building trust again, re-start the employment of huge numbers, give Thailand a 'leg up' on future tourism business in the region, and alleviate some of the damage done to the poorest in the Kingdom. The alternative is a policy of rot, idleness, atrophy and decline with an indefinite timeline. 

 

History is replete with examples of people hiding behind walls for protection, but it rarely ever works (especially against something the size of a virus); see the 'Maginot Line', the Great Wall of China, the Berlin Wall, and more. History shows that a combination of pro-active tactics coupled with reasonable, layered defenses provides a better outcome to almost any problem.

 

The question is; is anyone listening? Or are public officials just spewing nonsense to get their name in the paper?

 

I've given you an outline on what and how to do it; can you take it from here?

 

 

Hello! Anybody listening? Oh well, better luck next time.  The problem is that there is far too much logic in what you are saying. But please do not stop.  

The fact that FIFA says there is no reason to investigate Infantino is reason enough to investigate.  let's not forget Sepp Blatter and Michel Platini. Smoke comes to mind.

When will Thai people be permitted to enter the United Kingdom?

I am one of those unfortunate "dirty farang", stranded in the UK, and  prevented from returning. I say prevented fully understanding that the Thai government has, after many months of ignoring us,  begun to realize that we might be of some economical use to Thailand.  But the costs are prohibitive, and the requirements needed to re-enter the Kingdom of Thailand unnecessarily complex. Hence I am here for the near future, and would like my Thai wife, of 10 years now, and son, to come to the United Kingdom until such time as I am permitted to return.

Why the barrier on Thai's visiting the UK at this time? Thailand's death rate of 58 from Covid-19 vis-a-vis the United Kingdom's 46,299 (Aug.3) is a stark reminder of which country did something correctly. 

When will this barrier be lifted? 

Thank you. 

Victor Peeke

On 8/2/2020 at 3:10 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

An interesting read as always.

 

I think it is time for Thailand to re-evaluate its Virus Response policy.

 

Thailand has been following a 'Zero-Tolerance' policy, but I think it is time to move to a 'Managed-Tolerance' policy. I make this suggestion based mainly on two factors; I think it is inevitable that the virus will return to Thailand and a calm, managed response is more effective than hysteria. Secondly, the economic damage being done to millions is more harmful than the virus itself and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

 

We recently saw new cases in Vietnam, and I think that we are going to see new cases in Thailand soon; like most people I take the government's claim of zero cases with a grain of salt, although it seems like they have done a very good job overall. However, I don't think it can last. A better policy is to prepare, both medically and in terms of public opinion/education, for the return of the virus. Is this a radical idea? No, not really. Members will recall the phrase "flatten the curve", but perhaps a reminder is needed that the idea is to manage the virus so that the health system isn't overwhelmed; a policy of Zero Tolerance is incompatible with an open society and/or open economy. It is time to re-enforce the precautions needed, but also to allow for an economic re-start which includes outsiders/foreigners. A final point; humanity's best minds and a boat-load of resources are being thrown at the problem. This global effort, propelled by the power of competition, is expected to produce a vaccine either this year or early next year while treatments are being developed and refined daily; we as a species are going to beat this scourge, and relatively soon.

 

The economic damage being done to Thailand is immense. Yes, I know that we don't hear about it too much, but there is a reason for that. The people talking in the (not quite free) Media are almost all in a 'Virus-Proof' economic situation; they aren't directly affected so they don't feel the urgency of fixing the problem. Firm numbers are difficult to come by, but it seems around 6-9 million Thais are very badly hurt by the economic fall-out of the virus, and those people need to be both helped and heard. The damage done to these people is egregious and growing worse; some government support is being withdrawn, the option of 'Go Back to the Farm' isn't really possible anymore (and not a great idea regardless), and they will soon need more food and rent support to survive. Further, many aren't well-educated and don't have transferable skills, so their options are limited. Finally, even before Covid-19, their economic situation was in decline; it is in free-fall now and they can't be ignored. Simply put, plans for their economic regeneration must to be formulated now and implemented soon.

 

When people are hungry, all bets are off.

 

How to proceed?

 

It is the beginning of August; continue/speed up the current repatriation policy 'as is', but ramp up the public education aspect of change. Announce that by October 1st (perhaps Nov. 1st?) that the airspace around Thailand will be open to commercial air travel, long-term tourists (Snow-Birds who 'winter' here), remaining residents and retirees will be allowed to return with a few restrictions (test before boarding or on arrival, reasonable insurance, self-isolation at home on arrival, etc. BUT no mandatory state quarantine), implement common sense visa issuance (sorry Floridians and Texans!) and most of all prepare the Thai people for the idea that although there will be cases of the virus, they will be managed, and the benefits of re-opening are a risk worth taking. Yes, the end of mandatory state quarantine is essential if this is going to work; I believe that the long-term visitors will respect the self-isolation policy and Thailand's million strong public health volunteers can monitor them, but they won't come if they are going to be locked up. Moreover, the selection of the residents/retirees and 'Snow-Birds' as an initial group isn't accidental; these people already know the Kingdom and understand life within it, are good 'testers' of a new system, have a lot of money to spend, and can be excellent examples of a working policy of re-opening. Finally, allowing these kinds of visitors would build confidence, test whether short-term tourists could actually visit (I think not yet, but...), and help protect the tourism infrastructure from further and/or irreparable damage.

 

There are those who will argue that it is better to keep the borders closed and wait this out, and I honestly have trouble arguing against that idea (I don't want to catch the <deleted> thing). However, those who make that point rarely take the next step; what do you do with the 6-9 million people damaged by the current policy? Will those that advocate for closed borders take in homeless people? If so, how many? One family? Two families? Three? Will those that advocate for closed borders give up a percentage of their salaries/pensions to help? If so, how much? 25%? 35%? 45%? Will those that advocate for closed borders pay school fees and related costs for all the children of unemployed/underemployed parents? How many kids? One? Five? Twenty? The question isn't merely an intellectual exercise, it has real-world implications and consequences. 

 

If you want those 6-9 million people to sacrifice for you, what are you going to sacrifice for them?

 

To sum up, I think that the question of whether or not to keep the border closed is incomplete. The question should be: if you keep the border closed, then what will you do for the 6-9 million people economically-eviscerated by the response to the virus? Opening the Kingdom to visitors in November for the high season would likely see a few cases of the virus, but the Thai medical system can handle that (it did before, right?) until a vaccine is widely available. It would begin the process of re-starting the tourism industry in Thailand (20% of GDP!!!), begin the process of building trust again, re-start the employment of huge numbers, give Thailand a 'leg up' on future tourism business in the region, and alleviate some of the damage done to the poorest in the Kingdom. The alternative is a policy of rot, idleness, atrophy and decline with an indefinite timeline. 

 

History is replete with examples of people hiding behind walls for protection, but it rarely ever works (especially against something the size of a virus); see the 'Maginot Line', the Great Wall of China, the Berlin Wall, and more. History shows that a combination of pro-active tactics coupled with reasonable, layered defenses provides a bettI'm currenter outcome to almost any problem.

 

 

Beautifully put, not a point missed. I do hope that that gets translated and presented to Uncle Tu and his cohorts. As we're all aware though, to get any form of a high season this year, the aforementioned needs to be put into place ASAP as the tourists, not forgetting the snowbirds, are already planning, and the inability to book flights at this time  is a rather large barrier to spending time (and for many that means 3 to 4 months winter) in Thailand. Thank you for putting that so eloquently. i'm currently one of those unfortunates that are stranded, so I have a real vested interest in what you have suggested.

Purchased a Jumper EZBook X3 from Amazon at £170. 6gb ram. 13 inch screen. Very happy with it, so far (2 months now). No hard drive. Internal SSD  card @128 suffices for startup applications. Purchased another 128 gb San Disk for file folder and will buy an SSD M2 2242 NVMIE of about 250 gig at some time as they are dropping in price daily. Jumper is a very thin notebook, a Chinese brand. Dont see on Lazada unfortunately.  A lot of notebooks now upping the ram to 6 gb now. Some are at 8. SSD is a definite internal or external.  Good luck.  Now only £159. ouch,  I should have waited.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/13-3-inch-notebook-processor-supports-expansion/dp/B07WGT7KHS/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=notebook+jumper+ezbook+x3&qid=1595677714&s=computers&smid=A34MNU3SM9ENV8&sr=1-3

I believe that Bali is now open, or will be shortly. 

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thats some chip in your shoulder, perhaps weighing you down so heavily because the UK is certainly no mongers paradise !!!!

 

 

The weather in the UK has been astonishing since April (although it is wet this week).

In this time while stuck in the UK (unable to get back to Thailand) I’ve enjoyed more BBQ’s and spent more time in the sun and enjoyed being outdoors than I do in Thailand. 

 

 

Agreed. I'm stuck in N. Wales and apart from this week there's been almost constant horizon to horizon blue sky and sun. Would still like to go home one day though. ????

2 hours ago, Ireland32 said:

I do hear that papaya leaves tea are good if you get Dengue 

There are numerous scientific reports available that verify that. 

(The minister, meanwhile, informed that the Thai Embassy in London would consider requests from Thai people in the UK who wished to return home amid the Covid-19 crisis.)

Requests from Thai people?  And what about the thousands of non Thai people stranded here? Those with wives and children in Thailand, some of whom have lived in Thailand for upwards of 30 years and consider Thailand home. What about us???

10 hours ago, ThreeEyedRaven said:

If I recall my history correctly, it was a widespread outbreak in the US Army that was the major precursor of the Spanish flu of 1918. 

Lightning couldn't strike twice though surely? 

Twice? You mean thrice don't you? According to China the U.S. military visited the Wuhan "bat factory" just before the outbreak bringing in the virus with them I seem to recall. 

13 hours ago, Denim said:

Never mind. The main thing is that the government has returned happiness to the people , stopped all corruption in high places ,  united the politically divided nation and conquered covid 19.

 

Can't have everything.

Are you serious? Or is this an attempt at sarcasm?  ????

Good idea. Everyone gets penalised because of the demeanours of the few. Now let's apply the same logic to road accidents shall we and ban the sale of cars because of the  high level of death related accidents, which aren't all alcohol related either! And so on. 

On 6/29/2020 at 5:40 PM, richard_smith237 said:

Allow travel from any country - the Certificate of Entry requirement is absolute idiocy:

 

The Philippines seem to have a sensible approach to all this with testing on arrival and quarantining in a hotel until the test results are known (approx 2 days).

 

If people have a Covid-19 test before departure, the chance of importing Covid-19 is minimal. 

And, if people also have a Covid-19 test on arrival, quarantine in a hotel until the test result comes back negative, the chance of importing and spreading Covid-19 into Thailand is minimal. 

 

Nothing is water tight, however, a common sense and non-hysterical approach to re-opening Thailand and kick-starting tourism and the economy is essential. 

 

 

Currently the requirements to apply for the application of ‘Certificate of Entry’ are outright daft: 

1) Covid-19 Test 

2) Fit to Fly Certificate

3) Marriage Certificate (or other proof of reason to return)

4) Flight Booking Confirmation

5) ASQ Booking Conformation 

6) Proof of Insurance which includes Covid-19 cover (in excess of $100,000 eq.)

7) Copy of Passport and Visa 

8 ) Consent to be quarantined form (signed).

 

E-mail all the above to the Embassy - Await approval: How long would this take? 10 days?

 

Once / IF the ‘Certificate of Entry’ is issued....  depending on how long it took to approve...

1) Take another Covid-19 Test (within 72 hrs of your departure)

2) Obtain another Fit to Fly Certificate (within 72 hrs of your departure)

3) Re-confirm your flight booking

4) Re-confirm your ASQ booking 

5) Turn up at Airport for your flight with all your documents. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Uh, you forgot one (maybe more) the letter from the wife stating why it's urgent that you return!  Love that one.  Can you imagine the response from most wives: "No way, leave the old <deleted> there. Been nice and peaceful here thanks."

7 hours ago, Deli said:

d the country to the Hun Sen sold the country to the Chinese and at the same time adopted their system of repression and dictatorship

That sounds familiar, just change Hun Sens name for A N Other.   

8 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Does that mean all restrictions on incoming foreigners will be removed by the beginning of July? 

I hope so. I'd like to go to the show and take a look at what motorbike to buy next..   Not likely though if I cannot fly in! Guess I'll have to save my money..  

12 hours ago, steven100 said:

you want something like this .... 

And how much was that to build?  (not to buy).