DjChris28

5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

That is NOT the way a "double tax agreement" works.

 

If tax has already been paid in the country where the money comes from, it does not need to be deducted again on receipt in Thailand.

 

I am sure that in their mangling of their language means to say that the amount of tax paid in the source country can be deducted from the amount of any tax owed in Thailand.

Incorrect. When I was working in thailand, my tax rate was 20%, but my Australian tax rate was %30. 

I paid 20% to thailand and 10% to Australia. 

If there is a DTA in place between your country and Thailand, this will be the rules that apply under "Permanent establishment". Typically, they will need to prove you have a "fixed base". I'll be staying in an Airbnb when I do my work which is hardly a "fixed base".

Just make sure the company doesn't pay for your expenses in Thailand or gets involved. etc paying accommodation, flights. It needs to be clear that it is funded and organized on your own personal expense. and that the company did not require you to be in thailand to do the work.

I found this section for another country (Canada) that describes about PE:

https://djb.com/2022/08/home-office-and-permanent-establishment-for-non-resident-corporations/

The rules are similar for Thailand and any other country.

Non-resident corporations may not be considered to have a permanent establishment in Canada in the following situations:

1. Non-resident corporations do not bear any costs relating to the Canadian employees’ home offices in Canada;

2. Non-resident corporations do not use the Canadian employees’ home offices for any advertisement, business address, or on their website and,  

3. Non-resident corporations provide an office space or hoteling work arrangements in the non-resident corporation’s principal jurisdiction (e.g., the US) to conduct their official duties. The employees may choose to work from their home offices in Canada.

Speak to a tax accountant on this. 

8 hours ago, Misty said:

It's all in that pesky definition:  what is "overseas income"

Right

 Their definition should also include the words "if it is exercised from ...., then it will be tax free"

5 hours ago, mrmagyar said:

 Given that these questions are simply never asked of the Elite visa holders either, i'm really fairly confident that the intention is that LTR holders are not going to be asked to pay tax.

That's because it's not expected that you are working remotely on the elite visa. Its totally illegal to do so, it's just that the thai authorities turn their head the other way.

You can ask any thai tax account or the thailand revenue department if it's legal to work on an elite visa and they will always say you need a work permit.

On 1/11/2023 at 10:12 PM, mrmagyar said:

 

 

 

 

Key word here is "Derived". When you exercise work in Thailand even if the company pays you from outside Thailand is is located outside Thailand, you are still deriving it inside Thailand.

That clause would indicate they would not tax you for work you did if you went home for a couple of months and exercised the work back home and then brought that money to Thailand. That's what i think it means.

Also they state "Exemption from foreign source income law". The work you exercise in Thailand is not foreign sourced, it is Thai sourced. However, going back home and exercising work back home in your home country would be considered foreign sourced income to Thailand.

For example:

a) You work in Thailand from January to March < -- this is taxed in thailand

b) You work in USA from April to May. <-- this is not taxed in thailand

c) You work in Thailand from June to December <-- this is taxed.

Point a, is Thai sourced income, point b is foreign sourced income, pojnt c is thai sourced. What that clause is doing is waiving the 180 day rule so you are not taxed regardless of how many days of the year you are in Thailand for work that you EXCERCISE OUTSIDE of Thailand. Normally before these tax rules, in the above scenario you would also be taxed for point b since you are staying longer than 180 days in Thailand and also bringing the money into Thailand.

25 minutes ago, aublumberg said:

Yes a couple other factual inaccuracies in the article. It also doesn't even mention the Royal decree 743 nor the Revenue Department notification 427, both listed on the BOI LTR website. So the LTR specifics are not duly considered in the article. This is not a surprise since the article is dated 14 Sep 2022 (and thus probably written a week or more prior) at which time the LTR had only just been launched and the info on the BOI LTR website was not as comprehensive as it is today. The majority of the aspects in the article are not dependent on LTR visa but are generally applicable. Similarly, I would expect the average person answering enquiries at the Revenue Department not to know the LTR specifics. It's just too new, and too rare.

 

Here is a more relevant article from an expert firm specialised in Thai tax: Thailand Long Term Resident Visa Tax - SHERRINGS.

 

I've contacted two of the global top four tax and accounting firms and both provide specific tax advisory on this point for around USD2,000 - 3,000. I haven't gone ahead with it at this point due to personal circumstances, but would recommend anyone who is planning to spend any more than 180 days a calendar year in Thailand under a LTR-T visa to consider seeking professional tax advise.

 

 

But you see, this is what everyone is confused by. Just because you're being paid outside of Thailand but exercising the work in Thailand does NOT make your income foreign sourced. It is actually thai sourced. The source of the income is where you do the work, not where it is paid from. So this 180 day thing is illrellevant. You're taxed from day 1 for any work you exercise in Thailand regardless if it' s being paid into a bank account outside Thailand - I've heard this directly from the Thailand revenue department themselves.

The only thing which saves you is a DTA agreement from being taxed in thailand. And that agreement says stay under 183 days in thailand, the employer can't be a tax resident of Thailand and you must not create a PE and you can avoid tax for shorter stays. It under "Dependent personal services" section 2 of the DTA agreements. Usually article 14,15,16 for many countries and then section 2.

If you live in Thailand longer than 183 days, then you must look at making sure your home country either does not tax you or you can claim a foreign tax offset. Both of which can be done with my country Australia (Australian companies cannot tax their employees if you live overseas for the whole year). I believe for the USA, your only option will be to claim a foreign tax offset and get a tax refund on the usa side as you are always taxed whereever you go.

2 minutes ago, mrmagyar said:

Just to add a couple of points here, RE the link. (And hoping to not come across as a douche about it).

 

The article states - "With few exceptions, foreigners will require a work permit to work in Thailand." That's explicitly not the case for Work from Thailand Professionals.

 

The article also states income tax rates but fails to mention the fixed/flat 17% rate that applies to WFTP.

 

I'm not sure just how well informed/researched the author is, based on the above.

 

The 17% tax rate is for the highly skilled professionals. All other visa types pay normal thai tax rates.

1 hour ago, mrmagyar said:

Interesting report Chris.

 

To my understanding, this seems to contradict what has been previously discussed and agreed upon in this thread.

 

I was going off Section 5 of this document, which I assumed to imply that tax was not due on income* not brought into Thailand in the year that it was earned: https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Royal Decree issued under the Revenue Code No.743 (EN).pdf

This article from a tax accountant is golden in all the tax implications of this visa (This told me everything and then I confirmed it next with the Thailand revenue department itself):

https://www.austchamthailand.com/tax-implications-of-remote-working-in-thailand/#:~:text=With few exceptions%2C a foreign,individual is a Thai resident.

Have a look under sections "Taxation of a work-from-Thailand professional visa holder"

and also "Double tax agreements (DTA)"

On 9/7/2022 at 2:44 PM, BritTim said:

I assume you are currently outside Thailand.

 

On return, bring the evidence that BOI cancelled your extension remotely while you were out of the country, and request a visa exempt entry. There is likely to be some questioning by the officials, but you should eventually encounter an official with a few brain cells who will stamp you in on the visa exemption.

 

Then, visit the BOI one-stop centre to have them formally void the extension in your passport. I am sure you will not be the only person who has been through this as a result of Covid.

 

There is no reason why there should be any fines. The work permit and extension were correctly terminated at an appropriate time. The only issue is that the stamp in your passport does not 100% reflect reality.

I'm about to find out on the 27th December when I fly to thailand. A bit afraid. I don't mind paying a fine, but i don't want to get blacklisted. I'll let anyone know what happened for future reference.

Has anyone found any info especially from the Thailand revenue department about the tax you'll need to pay if on the work from Thailand option? If it's tax free for the income from the overseas employer on the thai side, that would be actually funny as I just found out today that if you live overseas and you are paid by your Australian employer, they don't have to actually pay Australian tax which means if there is no tax on the Thai side, you could do it legally tax free anyway.

42 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Technically, you were supposed to cancel your extension of stay after cancelling the work permit within 7 days. BOI issues DWP but if you had a paper booklet, it's something like that written at the back. As such, even if it's technically still valid, it should have been voided. You might not have an issue entering Thailand on it, but you sure will when you apply for new work permit and new extension of stay. Last time I was doing this for a colleague, they sent us straight to police station to pay fine before they'd process any documents.

Do you know what amount the fine was? like 1500 baht?

34 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

BOI issues DWP but if you had a paper booklet, it's something like that written at the back

The work permit was digital. I never got that blue book this time around.

4 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Last time I was doing this for a colleague, they sent us straight to police station to pay fine before they'd process any documents.

So what will happen when i arrive on plane to thailand? Will the immigration at customs direct me to the police station or will i need to go there by myself?

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I assume you have a extension of stay based upon working not a valid non-b visa.

Are you sure you extension is still valid. As far as I know the longest period of time they are issued for is 2 years.

My extension of stay is valid up to 19 jan 2024. Its a 4 year one.

Hello,

I was working in Thailand in March 2020 on a non immigration b visa. I had to leave in a hurry due to the pandemic unfolding and I was locked out the country as my own country did not allow us to travel so I could not go back to Thailand. My employer cancelled my work permit remotely and the BOI issued a separation letter (Which i received via email of the letter) but my passport still has a valid non immigration b visa in it. Can I just rock up to a police station or should I go to the one stop shop visa processing center in Bangkok and try and explain my situation? I'm planning to work next year, but I'm going to need to fix this up beforehand. Where do you need to go to fix this up?

The consulates back here in Australia say they can't cancel it.

9 hours ago, Misty said:

I think the answer may lie in the definition of "income earned overseas" - if it is earned by someone working in Thailand, it is considered "Thai sourced income," or "Thai earned income."  It isn't "income earned overseas."  Overseas income would be passive in nature -  such as dividends or interest received.

 

At least that's how it's been explained to me by Thai tax professionals.  And again, I am not a tax professional and would welcome one to jump on here.

 

 

 

 

I think it is like this:

On The Thailand Tax Side:

a) Work physically in Thailand for USA employer being paid into USA bank account - Thai sourced.

b) Work physically in USA for USA employer being paid into usa bank account - Foreign sourced.

On The USA Tax Side:

c) Work physically in Thailand for USA employer being paid into USA bank account - Foreign sourced.

d) Work physically in USA for USA employer being paid into usa bank account - USA sourced.

And then how long you stay in each country and also where you have a permanent place of stay will determine how much tax is paid on those income types on all country sides (For example, working in thailand for a usa employer means that you are earning thai sourced income for the thai tax side of things but also earning foreign income on the usa side of things at the same time). So for example, if you stay less than 180 days in Thailand and work 9 months in the USA, those 9 months are not taxable (in thailand) since it is foreign income (see point b) and foreign income is not taxed under 180 days in thailand.

The thing to understand is that when point a is true, point c is also true. and when point b is true, point d is true as well. 

9 minutes ago, Misty said:

That's what I've always been told by tax professionals. Income from working ("active") is classified differently from income from other activities such as investing ("passive").  And taxation works differently for active versus passive income. 

 

As you say, income from working while physically located in Thailand is considered "Thai-sourced" and subject to Thai tax.   It doesn't matter if the income is paid into an offshore bank account, the employer/customer is offshore, you leave the funds offshore for more than a year, etc

 

Double taxation agreements help for those who also are subject to tax elsewhere, for example US citizens. But US tax can be substantially reduced or eliminated with the use of foreign tax exclusions and credits.

 

Also, other nationalities who can claim tax residency in Thailand may not owe tax elsewhere.

So, if anyone is interested. This page: "https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html" and looking at "Dependent Personal Services" section 2 is what you need to read (For USA one, it's article 16, for australia one it's article 15). Along with the residency section "article 4". 

My question is do we need to apply for this to the Thailand revenue department or is it automatically applied as long as we meet the criteria?

I just talked to my tax account. He says that the income we receive while working remotely in thailand would be classed as Thai sourced income, not foreign income - Even though it is a foreign overseas company paying us into a foreign bank account. But because we are doing work in thailand, it is considered "thai sourced". And thai sourced income is taxable even if you spend less than 180 days in the country. The other thing which can save you is a double taxation agreement.

Has anyone working for a private company submitted the company annual report yet for work from Thailand option? My employer is asking if it needs to have a letter by the tax accountant. I can actually find reports you can pay for online of the companies revenue on the internet. I found a company profile report online the last 3 years and the good news is my employer meets the financial requirements. It's just next to impossible to actually prove it was audited or the reports I found on the internet are genuine.

On 8/26/2022 at 7:49 PM, DodgerRodger said:

Answer: There is no restriction on the number of days the visa holder is required to be resident inside Thailand in one year prior to the LTR Visa application. 

This is important as beware that you can be taxed after residing in thailand for more than 180 days of whatever money you bring into the country in the same year it was earned.

The only thing stopping me now with my employer is the burdon of paperwork. They don't like the audited reports and having to go to the ceo/director level to get all of this documentation. 

48 minutes ago, mudcat said:

As discussed in the webinar, the annual report resets upon international travel, so the year in the kingdom counts from your return.  Unknown if there will be an online reporting page and  if one is still required to file TM28 after returning from travel.

 

 

So if we only go there for 6 months every year (I'd be avoiding the foreign employment income thailand tax after 180 days by staying as a non thai tax resident, that is why), i'd never technically have to do 1 year reporting every year. Is that what you mean?

2 hours ago, DjChris28 said:

Good luck.

Anyone got a live feed of the webinar going on right now? ????

19 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Submitted what was needed this morning to the BOI for the wealthy Pensioner in the pre-screening for it. Let's see what occurs.

 

Good luck.