Flustered
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Posts posted by Flustered
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41 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:
People don't realize they actually talk louder to their devices than they do with people they are with -- which can be annoying...
Especially as all phones and audio devices have limiters that level out a raised voice to a normal level.
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Actually, Digital Nomads in the sense that I know them, completely piss me off. When you are trying to relax by a swimming pool or in a cafe or bar, all you can hear is them talking over the internet or occupying an entire table with their laptops and work sheets. They have no consideration for others and this in turn makes people hate them.
It's a bit like Travellers in the UK. The majority are dirty, cheating, fly tipping thieves who give the minority who are law abiding a bad name. Same for Digital Nomads. there are some genuine ones who would like to be honest but the majority ruin it for them.
Tarred with the same brush I know, but then again aren't we all?
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I take it you were perfectly happy with your wife, children and job in Thailand prior to this offer?
Life is full of tempting offers that will increase your income but at a risk. happiness and contentment is far more important than money. I used to think money was everything until I realised that there was more to life than becoming a millionaire.
Work with what you have and is important to you. Don't take risks that can end up in tears.
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2 minutes ago, Sirbergan said:
As far as morals goes, that's completely irrelevant. You were sticking to your guns when you thought it might be illegal a few posts back. Whether an illegal action is OK or not seems to depend on your own acquired taste. I'm sure the air is fresher up there, but you might wanna get off your high horse.
Don't try to compare apples with oranges, it doesn't work.
I have always said to abide by the laws of the country you are in. I do this. If it was illegal to copy my own collection, I would not do it. I did it while the UK Government had declared it was OK. The UK courts merely interpreted it differently in regard to hired or borrowed DVDs. At the time of your statement, I realised that I may have been in breach of the law but as it turned out, I was not.
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2 minutes ago, Sirbergan said:
I'm sure the digital nomads are sticking to their guns as well, until there is a legal way to work digitally in this country their justifications are just as valid as yours.
Just found out I am 100% legal. The law allows the original purchaser of a DVD/VHS to copy this for his/her own use do sorry no rodents here. The grey area was the copying of hired DVDs etc for personal use rather than buying them.
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7 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:
Nope, whenever a classic TV show was on sale... I bought it. Digital pack rat more like it...
I think Sirberga was getting at me.
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10 minutes ago, Sirbergan said:
Something tells me we're dealing with a pirate copy downloading (or buying) rodent here
My DVDs are all purchased by me and the downloaded films are on Amazon or SKy, all paid for.
Copyright is a very grey area. In Spain and Holland it is perfectly legal to copy "owned" DVDs, VHS and paid for downloads. The UK courts have said it is illegal but this decision is being challenged in the EU courts as the EU is meant to standardize civil and human rights.
But apart form that.....You have me bang to rights.. The difference between this and tax is that I have paid in full for the DVDs/ VJS tapes and downloads but have no intention of selling them or making any profit from them. My main reason is that my VHS tapes are beginning to degrade and need saving. My DVD collection is from various regions and needed standardising. That's my excuse and I am sticking with it. By the time I actually take the portable drives out of the UK the EU courts should have ruled against the UK courts if only to spite them.
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31 minutes ago, Momofarang said:
Well, I don't know how much I've spent on my house, probably in the 4 to 5 millions range plus another million for the in laws. Sometimes thinking about elite, but I don't trust the Thais, anything can happen here in 20 years... But I won't blame those who have less, or more, to spend.
The only real worry I have is to secure an education, in Australia, for my daughters, and I might not here. Have the cash right now but the Thais tend to frantically get rid off the money they can get their hands on.
Stick with it. An overseas education will be the best thing you could do for them.
Despite being a first world country, we brought our Singapore nieces to the UK for their Uni education. It paid dividends. Education is the best gift you can give anyone today.
Why is it that Thais do not hang on to money? We have a Thai "Sister and Brother" in Phuket. Been part of our family for over 35 years. Now they are retired, they are spending their savings as if money was going out of fashion. I have tried telling them to budget but they think their sons will look after them. Some hope.
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4 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:
I did get a funny look when I declared a rack mounted computer and 2,000 DVD collection ..... then, ok welcome to Thailand.
2,000 DVD! put them on a portable drive.
I am in the middle of downloading/converting our entire DVD/VHS library for those dark winter nights in Chiang Rai when I do not want to see another episode of Dr Tom in Thai.
Right now, up to 7 TB and climbing. Just starting to download the latest Game of Thrones episodes.
Re retirement, I would never want to go back to being 40 or 50 again with those 16 hour days, critical paths and milestones to meet. Now it's all about exercise, gardening, reading and being put in place by my 13 year old grandson when I try to teach him how to write real code (low level programming) rather than Mickey Mouse game coding.
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4 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:
I really cannot afford to retire then.... If my BP falls further.... I won't be able to stand up anymore
Though my heart rate now is rather fast.... use to be low to mid 30s (in University) now up in the low 40s.... probably could drop it down in the high 30s if I exercised more.
Retirement to me looks like endless monotony to me, I like having stuff to do... things to build.... to me... work is fun.... not stressful.
A heart rate in the mid 30s is something you should worry about unless you are as fit as Mo Farah.
Interesting article in the Mail
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Seriously, good on you. It's nice to know that there are some people who do not whine about the cost of living in Thailand. Normally when someone mentions they have a Thai Elite Visa or they have bought a 20 million baht condo they are shouted down by the POGS (Pathetic Old Geezers).
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5 minutes ago, blorg said:
You got me, not a day goes by I don't wake up and think "you know what I wish, I wish I were 20 or 30 years older"
Retirement is the best thing that ever happened to me. Early retirement at 55, 6 months UK, 6 months Thailand/Singapore. Leisure, no work related stress. OK, a few OAP related medical issues easily controlled.
I would recommend that everyone should retire as soon as they can financially do so. My BP has fallen to a nice low level, low pulse and plenty of sleep at night. Wonderful life.
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2 minutes ago, blorg said:
I think a lot of digital nomads would be quite happy to pay a normal amount for a non-immigrant visa and then pay normal Thai taxes, which are reasonable. If they have a rule where the income has to come from outside Thailand, it can't be taking work from any Thai person. So it's bringing money into Thailand AND the government gets a cut. Throw in a reasonable income minimum to keep out the bottom feeders if you like, I think that's 50,000 at the moment for most Westerners to get a regular work permit, you could make it a bit more if you want, set it at the 65,000 retiree rodents have to show? I don't see the downside for such an arrangement for anyone... except bitter old expats who just resent younger people being here full stop.
Sounds to me like someone is very jealous of those who have saved enough to have a good pension and can legally stay in Thailand without further work.
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1 hour ago, Momofarang said:
New house, two kids, holidays, yes. Life isn't any cheaper in Buriram (province). Unless you go native.
But what on earth do you spend 150,000 baht on? As I said, that's some US$5,000 per month and you have no debts to speak of.
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1 hour ago, whitemouse said:
I once met a postman from Yorkshire, England, who's only time on Thailand was 3 weeks out of the year, that was his hard earned vacation in Chang Rai. He was very, very upset with people who had made different life choices :)
He then retired, and lived on a small pension, just enough to survive. He was a sad, sad man.
But he lived and probably held his head up high. When you look at some of the POGs in Thailand you wonder what on earth went wrong.
Forward planning and a little hard work should set most people up for a good life.
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5 hours ago, Momofarang said:
And.. probably plenty of debts... I am living out in Issan, no mortgage, no loans I we go go through 150k monthly without splashing out, driving only a CRV + March...
Seriously, 150,000 baht a month with no mortgage and no splashing out? That is around US$ 5,000 per month in Issan.
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1 minute ago, rwdrwdrwd said:
As I stated above - - it is simply a term for someone who is able to travel and earn their income online.
Are you deliberately being obtuse? You are now agreeing with us after disagreeing. All you have done is to simplify the meaning.
Digital Nomads rarely work in their countries of residence, hence the term Nomad.
But I am sure you will reply with another obtuse response.
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1 minute ago, rwdrwdrwd said:
That is simply not what a digital nomad is. Nobody can live in Thailand and not be tax resident, as I addressed in the prior post.Just ignore the rest of my post and only quote one line, I fully explained what a Digital Nomad is.
Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? I never questioned the legality of tax residency in Thailand, just tax evasion by DMs.
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1 minute ago, bkkcanuck8 said:
They may have earned their money but they have not been taxed on all that earned money.... before they are allowed in they should be forced to wrap it up and pay all taxes on that earned but untaxed tax shelter balance... and only then be allowed to reside locally.
You are now trying to muddy the waters.
Thai law is very clear on money brought into the country.
We know you are a DM and want to work where, how and when you like disregarding local laws but even DMs have to obey the laws of the country they live in or do you think yourself above these laws?
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1 minute ago, Sirbergan said:
One can also argue that the government is at fault in many of the cases, seeing there is no reasonable option for those digital nomads to actually pay their taxes and work legally. Hiring 4 employees full-time is not a viable option for most freelancers.
The first few years I worked as a freelance translator, I really wanted to get a work permit and pay taxes – but couldn't. I am sure there are plenty others in the same situation. Until the Work permit rules are changed, I wouldn't be so quick to judge.
Before you call me vermin – I actually run a company with 18 employees now (established in 2011).
You run a perfectly legitimate company, why would anyone call you vermin? However, if you know the law about employment and chose to ignore it, earn money and withhold taxes then yes you are vermin., but you did not.
Being a DM in Thailand is not a grey area, it is against Thai law as they do not have work permits and they are doing work that could be carried out by a Thai.
The reference by bk to the Thai Authorities saying it was OK to work as a DM turned out to be hearsay and misunderstanding on who said what.
http://hobowithalaptop.com/is-it-legal-to-be-a-digital-nomad-333
No one in any position of authority has ever said it is OK to work as a Digital Nomad.
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Just now, bkkcanuck8 said:
Thai immigration authorities have already stated that as far as they are concerned -- if they are not making money locally or from local services etc. they deem the income is from foreign employment not domestic and are not interested in them. These laws tend to be all encompassing, and it all comes down to interpretation and enforcement as to where the line is drawn. That line might change -- and if that is the case ... currently HCM is a hot place that is a popular destination for digital nomads in the region.
So it is not Thai immigration authorities that are all in a huff.... it is a bunch of foreigners that have no residency (as in permanent residency) status that are getting their panties in a knot.
So can you link us to this official Thai statement ?
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Just now, perthperson said:
And the really strange thing is they call themselves "nomads" whereas , in reality they are not. They never move -- more like sh*t stuck to a blanket.
100% agree.
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32 minutes ago, rwdrwdrwd said:
My point is that the people that are termed 'digital nomads', if they spend 183 days a year in Thailand, are treated in exactly the same manner as any other Thai tax resident (including expat pensioners) in terms of tax. Most crucially, nobody can 'declare residence' elsewhere to avoid being liable for tax in Thailand - tax residence is simply determined by the time spent in the country.
I think you are conflating 'digital nomads' with 'tax nomads' - they are very different terms.I see your thinking but you do not understand what a Digital Nomad is.
A Digital Nomad is a person who uses the internet/cloud sources to work while travelling and enjoying different countries.
Although normally resident in their home country, they take advantage of other countries to enjoy a way of life more in keeping with their requirements. The only tax they pay in these other countries are local taxes. Any money earnt while living and working in these other countries is not taxed in them but in the country they declare it.
In short, a Digital Nomad works and lives in a country other than the one he/she declares as residence for tax purposes.
In countries such as Thailand, they are in breach of Thai laws which are very clear on the matter and in doing so could end up in big trouble. They are denying Thailand tax on monies earnt while living and working in the country.
If any Digital Nomad thinks they do not need a work permit for Thailand, let them go to the Thai authorities and see what will happen.
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Just to recap.
Digital Nomads want to be able to travel and work wherever they like. They are happy to pay some form of tax in their country of official residence but do not want to be taxed in the country they are living and working.
They consider that the tax they pay locally for accommodation, food transport etc. is more than enough to allow them to enjoy all the benefits that living in that country offers to a non resident.
They feel that they are the future of work and employment and as such the existing tax laws of these countries are archaic and should be changed to suit the need of Digital Nomads.
Because of the nature of their work, Digital Nomads do not need work permits and can use tourist visas as a means of entry and stay.
Have I missed anything?
Though my heart rate now is rather fast.... use to be low to mid 30s (in University) now up in the low 40s.... probably could drop it down in the high 30s if I exercised more.
Digital Nomads
in Thai Visas, Residency, and Work Permits
Posted
Pretty poor definition of a Digital Nomad and taxation obligation.