Internatltraveler

As several posters here, I have lived here for a few years now, but never intended to stay here for the rest of my life. I have a tendency to stay put for a few years and then move on since I am free also to go wherever the wind drives me. I'm originally from the USA and have been moving around for many years now, being the 8th country I have lived in thus far. As I check places out, I have recently read that Costa Rica have moved back to the number one destination for retirees in the world. Having lived there for ten years in the past I became a citizen there some time ago so the move back there is very easy. As others have stated the things that are more expensive there I have no need for anyway so cost of living there is no more than living here in Hua Hin.

The cost of a visa is affordable, and insurance for us older people can be as low as $15-$20 per month that is social and all inclusive including meds, dental and all else. It is a medical tourist destination and has hospitals approved by the American Hospital Association. I use the public medical system which is comparable to Thailand and better in some areas than here.

The people are open to foreigners living there, there is no army, and generally the people are well educated throughout the metro areas. You can get using English but Spanish of course helps us out there. It is the world of Pura Vida, (Pure life) easy going, smiling, much like Thailand climate with mountains and beaches with a great biodiversity. There are two international airports and around 5 million residents total. I love the street markets there, the friendly women are lovely Latinas and there are many things comparable to Thailand..

It is regarded as an expensive place to live due to the low income margin of the citizens, but for foreigners living there it is still very cheap unless you want to purchase beach property. You have total right to property ownership, no problems with banking, cell phone coverage throughout the country and major carriers to choose from. So it has everything that Thailand has and more.

With the immigration issues here constantly under revision, the instability of the government that is not strongly oriented toward the value of having retirees in their economy, and growing crime rates and so many issues that we read about here, well this may be my last year here also. I live one day at a time and who knows that the world may change for me or for Thailand and I decide another direction in the coming year. I do not care to ever live back in the USA for one point and there are so many great areas to live in Central and South America regardless of what one poster wrote about "instability etc" in that part of the world, there is much more stability there than many other parts of the world as far as I know from living there and being a joint citizen there.

And No, I don't work for the Chamber of Commerce. Just sayin' that we all have other options to consider and so if you are not happy here, rather than sit around and bitch and complain, pick up your toys and move on. I bet that most of the complainers here would never be happy though wherever they go. It's better to complain than to do anything about it for them I guess...just not my way of thinking. Happiness is mostly about your attitude anyway I have been told.

Fred White...Stop stating things that are not true about the "USA." You make the USA look stupid! While we do some pretty stupid things there like elect Trump, what you wrote about polling bans is incorrect mostly. It's smart to get your facts straight before going off and writing comments like you did here. In 2014 the last state of South Carolina reversed the last ban on alcohol sales in the USA by any state for polling days. Maybe you have been out of the USA with your head stuck in the sand since then, but it's been a very long time since "the USA" banned alcohol sales on any day. Get your facts straight.

Normally, I don't like to get embroiled into these hostile conversations and ethnocentric comments, however enough is enough.

I have never heard of or seen so many arrogant and downright ignorant comments about the economics of people's choices as this topic seems to have brought up. So let me clarify a few obvious points that seem to be completely ignored by so many here that have chosen to comply with providing 800,000 baht in a bank and having it tied up now for a minimum of five months every year, and then having at least 400,000 baht not available for emergencies the rest of the year. For those who don't mind having their cash in a bank tied up at the lowest interest rate anywhere which means any bank anywhere nearly, more power to you. For those who have planned to have a larger amount of cash available to them, more power to them also.

And this does not include those of you who are fortunate enough to have a good health insurance system in your country that will cover you wherever you are...maybe soon you won't be so happy if current legislation passes that is working its way through the legal system here stating that we all must have at least a 400,000 baht in/out patient health insurance policy ISSUED BY A THAI Insurance Company in addition to the money deposited into our accounts to meet long term stayers. Knowing farewell that these policies will most likely not cover pre-existings, will have age restrictions, and get very expensive with aging and not available to a lot of us over given ages. Once your feet start getting squeezed in those new shoes, it will be interesting to see the negative comments from the people who claim they are the upper crust of retirees because they have so much money to keep in a Thai bank all the time,

For those of us who have substantial cash flow due to our financial strategies in life such as using a trust fund, a life annuity, a government or social pension that we paid into in order to have a stable and reliable income for the rest of our lives, but never did try to put money aside in excess to what our pensions provide, we may actually have more in a bulk investment than most of the majority of people here who have made other choices with their liquid assets. The question was should we save to have a bulk of liquid cash or a reliable permanent income for the rest of our lives. Maybe both options were not available to many of us.

I am neither the "lower marginal level of economic retirees" nor am I low class by any means unless you consider having over $5 million dollars in investments a poor class and a substantial education from a good ivy league school. I am professionally educated and in fact was also trained in financial planning professionally. I never would recommend people in the USA to carry large bank accounts that are exposed to low interest rates nor would I recommend people to place their funds into capital gains assets that diminish the size of their investments substantially either. Two factors eat away at our finances, liability through our tort law exposure in the USA and ever changing politically explosive rules of our taxation system.

We normally recommend safer investments as we age, thus they are less liquid in many cases so cash flow becomes king and capital assets are the food that feeds the golden goose. For those of you that do not understand other cultures it is time to stop this ignorant and downright stupid conversation of judging each other by how we are culturally, conditioned and have planned our lives. I have been retired for 25 years now, living in Europe (3 countries), Latin America (3 countries), Asia (2 countries) and have always had adequate income to live my chosen lifestyle of comfort and happiness. No country that I have lived in or am aware of so far is as limiting as Thailand. No country that is considered a third world country would consider forcing retirees to have $25,000 tied up in their banks, nor have them check in every 90 days our of the paranoia of immigration such as is here. No country that I know of expects a foreigner to provide 5 or 6 times the income per month of the average citizen living in their country.

What is going on here in this country to me is maybe part of an attitude reflecting how our own countries treat our immigrants, maybe we are not wanted here, maybe other nationalities are more desired, maybe only the wealthiest people are invited to live here to join the other elitist thinkers in this country,. None of us really know the motivation of immigration here, but if you read Thai Visa very much, who on earth would knowingly invite a bunch of old complainers who have nothing better to do than to sit around and Thai bash or complain about the culture or the people here. Who wants you even in your own country with this kind of attitude anyway? Many people have said, in all the countries I have lived, that the men coming to their country from other countries are either wanted in their own countries (by the law) or not wanted (by anyone there) in their countries ...so which category do most of us fall into anyway. It's time to stop being part of the proverbial hostility that we are creating and stop eating our first born and every one around us. and start having a bit more compassion and care about the people around us.

Whenever a country makes decision that affects literally thousands of people who are living there in peace, who offer no threat to their society and are willing to provide money and even our support into our new found countries, seems to me these are the type of people that should be welcomed with open arms, but if this bunch of yahoos on this site are any indication of what we represent then I too am in strong favor of kicking them all out also and that includes all of you who wave their money in their hands and proclaim they are better than everyone else because they have more money,,,what a pitiful group of losers we have become, and it is plain to see why we have run away from our own cultures and landed here or other places that are willing to tolerate us only because of the money we bring here, but even that gets tiresome after a while and you too should then consider why live here if all you can do is to sit on your bar stool and complain about the whole world around you. You are the problem, not the world old man!

I have never been exposed to the type of utter confusion and chaos Thailand Immigration has caused so many of the people who come here to live and contribute financially to the culture. Those of you who say we would not be missed...how ignorant can get you...if you take 30% even of the 250,000 pensioners living here you removed over 125,000 people paying monthly expenses, immigration fees, transportation, food and housing costs, plus caring for their kids in private or public schools, taking care of their Thai adopted families etc. This is damage to many people who could have been avoided if the rules were laid out to be fair for both this government and us a expats. Sure they will not really miss us as much as we like to think, but I bet many of you are willing to sit and criticize your own countries for doing the same things to migrants who want to join your country because they are leaving horrible and dangerous situations in their own homes and are only looking for a decent place where they can live and have their families safe and well educated. We are dealing with people and their families here not just numbers in the computer. Uprooting families and their kids and relatives, destroying many relationships of love and trust.

I sincerely understand that many of us come from countries that are even more onerous to foreigners migrating into our shores. It seems to me that the entire globe is becoming more hostile toward each other and you can plainly see it on this site with the sample of hostile, judgemental and down right stupid comments seen about our fellow expats.

I recently renewed my extension and am good to go for another year for only my 5th year. My time is quickly coming though when I get tired of instability and uncertainty about my immigration status from year to year as I get older. So this will probably be it for me but hot because I dislike this country. It's just a personal choice I have to make as 80 gets closer and my life is changing in ways that require more stability and consistency now...this is all on me, just like it is on each of you. If you don't like here you have a few choices, to continue to be part of the problem that forms the opinion of bad attitude foreigners that sit and complain, get drunk, act crazy in public and ignore the local customs and traditions, or you can be respectful toward your fellow brothers and sisters, and even be helpful in your communities, or maybe you should just pack up and leave and stop creating such a coat of slime over the good people who want to live here in peace and quiet and pass the days till they are no longer around....your choice. My vision is probably not possible and will be attacked by many of you trolls who will probably enter the gates of heaven and complain about the angels being so loud with their wings flapping. Peace be with you all and one can only hope to make it a better place but somehow I don't think that will be possible here in Thailand with this bunch of old losers who must read every word of Thai Visa every day to write their two cents worth of critical acid and feel their day is completed successfully. How did we get to this point anyway?

I went to the USA Embassy for my final letter of income verification on the December 14th. I confronted the agent who was notarizing my letter about the embassy stopping the issue of these letters for us and here is a summary of my conversation:

She stated that the US Embassy had made the decision to stop this pratice (we all knew that already)

I asked the reason.

She said it was a decision that the embassy had made.

I then stated that what was published was in fact incorrect about not being able to verify government issued pensions. She defended it of course and I stated that out of the 8 countries I have lived in and had to go through immigration for visas in each of those countries requiring verification of income, the Family Support Units of those embassies had always had the capability of going online and verifying government issued benefits for anyone who received them from the USA. She said that the embassy does not do that, and I of course have factual information to the contrary of this, so when I presented that to her, she asked if I would like to talk to the manager and I replied "of course I would." I was sent to the private little room where they summoned manager to speak with me.

The person who came to talk with me was the Acting ACS Chief, Ms. Aja Setfanon. She basically told me what they had already published. I once again challenged her and she stated they could not go online to verify private records due to the privacy of information act. I explained I was an attorney from the USA and knew differently. All we have to do is to sign a waiver to permit whomever we choose to access our records, and she nodded in compliance. I then stated that she knew as well as I did that any embassy could verify any government documents at any time they needed to. She once again nodded in agreement. So then I asked why the embassy in Thailand had made the decision that they had. She plainly told me that it was their decision not to support the citizens because "it was not their responsibility to do so." Of course this response infuriated me but I had to keep my cools.

She said this embassy had made the decision and that was that. She did not state it was a decision of our State Department nor any other reason, simply it was a decision they made.

To me this sounds really fishy and somehow I believe there is more to the story than they are disclosing to the public, but there was no point in protesting further. Obviously she was just carrying out the orders of someone else, because that is who pays her pay check. It sruck me as to the lack of empathy when I brought up the point of how many USA citizens were relying on monthly pension payments to live abroad and how they could negatively impacted by this decision. She responded by saying "Well, you are the one who decided to live in Thailand."

So the whole story here simply does not make sense.

Factually, the Family Support Unit has been moved out of BKK to the Philippines and does not support us as well as it should, and that is another story, so without the support of the FSU here in BKK, they would have to receive verification from Manilla or get permission to go online locally to access our records, but the statement that it is "impossible for them to verify income sources anywhere" is an absolutely false.

I wonder if enough of us Americans petitioned the embassy or the State Department if we could get a better conclusion to this story, or if there is something politically going on here that has forced them into this kind of conclusion.

Ms. Stafanon did tell me that if any immigration office was not in compliance with the Immigration Police Guidelines and we told her about it, that they would make contact with that immigration office and request that they follow their own guidelines correctly however, and follow up with the Thai government main immigration office of the problems with local IOs. She qualified that statement by saying that is all they can do though and that it was up to us to make the decision to live here or not.

This is a case that the only thing that may change this decision about these letters is for enough of us to file complaints about their decision so that they listen to us, but somehow I doubt enough of us are really serious about doing anything about it other than complaining...Apathy is strong among ex-pats when it comes to taking action, but we certainly can sit around and complain about it...if you take action then we may be able to have enough voices heard to do something constructive about it. 

Their email address in case you would like to be part of us who want to make a difference is: [email protected]; Twitter is: @ACSBKK; FAX is (+66) 02 205-4103

We CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE BUT ONLY IF WE MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD!

Well, here we go again with stupidity at its elevated highest. First of all, the laws of libel, slander and defamation of character in civilized countries, that allow freedom of speech have a very high bar to reach. In the USA there must be proof of harm being done in the form of lost income or the like in order to bring the case to a court. This caver, maybe is a nice guy, maybe not. We don't know much about him other than here say. I don't believe there is not going to be a case based in the USA regardless of his big mouth. I do not know what the legal standard in Britain is, but I suspect with freedom of speech aplenty there also a case is not going to go very far. This Vern character of this soap show does not have a lot of money or he does not have much smarts if he thinks he is going to get one dime from Musk anywhere in the world. Vern, just stop your nonsense. No one even cares about you in the first place! Go on and live your life. You are just one more old man chasing his retirement dream living in this country. Get over it!!!! And those of you who think being called a name did not have mothers like mine, who said something about sticks and stones that break your bones!

Even in Thailand, what rights do foreigners have anyway? We are not citizens of the country and it is possible that something like this is beyond the jurisdictional authority of the courts here to prosecute. Vern is a windbag and when there is this much smoke, there often is some fire also. An honorable person does not have to defend their honor in the first place. Honor stands unto itself. Musk may have done a background check on Vern, who knows, and found some skeletons in the closet somewhere. After all, Musk is one of the brightest men in the world, it is said, so I don't think anyone out here should take him as a stupid person.

I agree with others who are getting tired of Vern tooting his own horn or even his horn being tooted by the media. The cave trauma was a total effort of many people including a Thai Seal who lost his life attempting to help out. We have completely forgotten the call to duty and the loss of life that occurred here.

But I think Mr. Vern is going to be in for a huge cultural shock, which was probably helped by an ambulance chasing attorney who is simply out for media attention and as much money as he can get from a hopeless case.

As in everything else, the court of public opinion, here on this site is filled with wanna be attorneys who are for the most part ignorant of the laws and simply show their ignorance of reality. Well the court of public opinion may work here in this country but in more law abiding countries, that same public arena is simply like watching the fixed events of professional wrestling...all show with nothing real about it. The interesting thing to me is to read how so many from such a variety of cultures regard these events and then we can begin to realize what the real problems in our affiliated cultures are if we are examples of our home cultures...geeeeze no wonder the world is in a mess right now! So much venom being spewed by so many varieties of snakes!!

I read again how people regard the value of relationships here. It sounds like a bunch of slave owners who have bought and sold their slaves and how they control them and permit them to live. You must be kidding me that you believe you first have the right of ownership of your partner. Who gave you the right to own another person anyway?

Second, the quickest way to anger people is to take away their freedom. In a culture that tends to be passive aggressive in nature you are only asking for a whole lot or problems. No wonder Thai women kill and maim their husbands here if they have these kind of debilitating and sick ideas of control. I assume most people here are talking about the person they claim to love. Love is never based on control and ownership...that makes your partner only an endured slave. Men are so ignorant about women so often by not understanding some basic truths about the nature of women. The research in this area is strong indicating that women will have more lovers early in their lives then men do, but women don't go around bragging about it. Women will get over a man faster when they break up than a woman. A man is 2.5 times more likely to commit suicide than women due to a relationship breakup. You are propagating the very psychoilogical abuse that so many of you are verbalizes against. A man will never know the whole truth about his woman because he is never going to be her best friend. She will have another woman as her best friend, and will confide things to her that we as men will never really accept much less understand.  Get over yourselves. We are part of the problem and certainly not part of the solution in this one.

Then there is the issue of who is controlling whom....never a win on either side on this one. It's about time we men wake up and get out of our caves and stop becoming troglodytes. We don't grab women by their hair and drag them back into our caves and make them our slaves, or do we? Almost all of us men here have come from divorced wives, broken homes and the like, and we come here expecting a submissive, and subservient gf or wife is just what the doctor ordered and then we turn around and treat them like s _ _ t as our servants and slaves. No wonder most of us are not wanted in our own countries and not really loved for much more than our money pits in other cultures...no wonder. The story is right here in front of us....

It is truly offensive to read the comments in this topic nearly to the point of being repulsive and sounds like a bunch of cave men sitting around bragging about their many conquests. We have a long ways to go and the road is going to be very bumpy getting there. but we bring this on ourselves!

I do not read these articles on a daily basis because it seems we expats are full of outhouse attorneys, experts in the world of everything and quite often just full of crap with our complaining about living in Thailand. I am not going to defend or argue about what is said here but maybe an intelligent objective comment is called for when there are so many crazies out there who sit around and have nothing more to do than just to complain and bash wherever they live at the time.

We may not agree with our host country and we try to measure how it is in the countries where we hail from against the laws, standards, and beliefs in our host country. The huge issue that is obviously just passed over so often in these discussions is that every country (and I have lived in 10 countries now) has their own standards of conduct, their rules of society, their own laws to which people are expected to abide by. We cannot legitimately say they are wrong and we are right since this country has the perfectly legitimate right to establish laws and standards the government sees fit to establish.

Each of our countries has laws that are strange to foreigners and often even to the citizens of our countries, and often time they are not strictly enforced and subject to ridicule for being outdated, irrational and otherwise downright stupid. But they are still the laws that we are held accountable to. Comments defining legal terms by the definitions of our own countries mean nothing outside the boundaries of our countries in reality. Yes, they may be dated and even need to be changed, but to sit and quibble about these issues as a foreigner in a host country is not going to make things better. We have no voting rights here, we do not influence the laws here very much, even with our egotistical thinking that all the money we are spending as expats will make a difference in the government.

I suggest that we learn to abide by the laws and contribute answers to the issues facing this country (unless all you want to do is sit around, drink your beer and complain all the time). Most of us live here because we have gotten tired of our own cultures or maybe we are hiding from someone or just are undesirable nomads seeking hidden asylums in far away places. I love to travel and have never had conflict in any country anywhere in the world. I first become knowledgeable about the laws that are going to affect me in my new host country to make sure I can live there personally; that I feel relatively safe and secure and can experience the local culture close up and real. If you just sit around and complain you are not going to enjoy the wonders of Thailand and its beauty. But you certainly can find other expats that have nothing better to do then support your negativity.

You always have choices in life. A choice you have here, as you did in the country you came from, is to be positive and understand what is expected of you here, abide by the rules, honor the society and respect the differences in Thailand from your own country or quite honestly just move on to another place that you can complain about again. Do you really think all of your pissing and moaning is going to change things in a culture that is over 5000 years old? Come on and get real!!! All we do is to alienate more Thais who already don't want us here and sit other foreigners up as "rich people who think they can buy anything including the Thai culture with their pension checks."

I have found out in my long years of living that we have a choice to be negative about most everything or we can be positive. It seems to me that life is so much more worth living and our experiences become much more rewarding when we do things for others first of all, get away from our own narcissistic thinking, our holier than thou attitudes and learn about the country we are living in. Look to its good side, to the friendly people, those that will help us in our moment of emergency, those that are sincerely well meaning people who want to please and serve us the best they know how. Why not be thankful for this opportunity that we have been given to enjoy the remaining years of our lives rather than sit around and complain about every little ant that crawls across our thresholds?

I know these words will probably be ridiculed and more negative comments made, but I have developed a huge shield against negativity that the best of you cannot penetrate, so read, think, and maybe life could be so good if you really wanted it to be! I bet if I were to live in any country any of you have come from, I could sit and find so much to complain about that you would want me to exit out of the nearest border as fast as I could move. And I would hear the resounding comment, "well if you don't like it here, just move on."

It continues to amuse me to read responses to these articles from people who have no earthly idea what they are talking about. Here are some facts abouy Uber.

1. It is the largest taxi company in the world now and is making lots of organized mafia controlled companies very uncomfortable because of their rapid and cheaper service. What is wrong with this anyway? Any taxi driver can quit his low paying job and become an Uber driver anywhere in the world where it is legal, so rather than complaining and saying they are taking business away, join them...much better deal for all concerned.

2. Uber carries a $3 million liability coverage policy on all of its drivers. So for those of you talking about them being uninsured, well, you really do not know what you are talking about. There is no taxi company, that I am aware of, in the world who carries this high limit of liability coverage for its drivers. I would say that is a fairly responsible business strategy and much more ethical than most taxi companies with their low limits of coverage.

3. Uber requies high limit individual coverage be carried by its drivers. In the USA, that is a limit of $300,000/$100,000 being $300K for total per accident and $100K per individual in that accident. So what say you nay sayers of wrong information again? Guess that does not suit your arguments either, right? It also required all vehicles to be well maintained, clean and well cared for in order to even become a driver.

4. Uber does not employ drivers. It subcontracts with them. That makes them legally self employed. So for the government to say they are a foreign owned business, well that is right and wrong also. It is more accurate for the government to take the position that these drivers may not be properly licensed to conduct a business in Thailand, and that is a legitimate comment. But let's get our facts straight.

So many of us talk about all the cheating of taxis, poor service and corruption of taxi drivers in Thailand and when a decent new concept company that offers rapid and courteous service, known fees prior to boarding into the taxi without having to negotiate, being capable of paying with credit card, rather than cash you, and heavily insured in case of an accident,  complain using misinformation and normal groveling that this site is known for.

By the way, Uber takes a small amount (I think it is $1 or $2 per ride from its drivers) to pay for their $3 million dollar liability coverage...Great idea I would say..or would you also argue with this business model.

So Uber is a well run company, breaking the rules of old taxi businesses all over the world that is literally corrupt, too expensive, slow often in getting to a customer and then can you trust the route they take if you do not know the area because in the 30 or so countries I have lived and/or traveled through they tend to take advantage of riders lack of knowledge to run the meter up, if they even use a meter....

So before you start spewing garbage about one more item you know nothing about, why not do a little research and become correctly informed so we would respect your arguments! What an idea that would be...or just continue running off your opinions with toxic comments and total lack of knowledge of what is being said! I challenge you to become informed consumers rather than just detractors and devisive opinionated naysayers.