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Internatltraveler
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Well for me, who originates from the USA and have lived in numerous countries and dealt with this immigration and visa issue many times now, it seems to me that the USA Embassy could take a position that they can identify what documents could be made available to them to verify the income. Social Security. VA Benefits, Military pensions and other governmentally issued pensions can easily be verified online by our Embassy. The Social Security Division of our embassy in BKK has been moved to the Philippines and is not so easy to work with now. But in the past in Costa Rica as an example, when the document to support our monthly income was needed they could simply pull up our social security or government record because that is a direct verification of income by a governmentally employed agent...end of story.
So when they tell us now that it is impossible for them to verify incomes from so many sources, I can understand that completely. But they could certainly issue a list of easily verified documents that they could verify from their computers, and that would still take care of probably the majority of USA citizens here who can honestly verify their records.
As for anyone on this site who calls us names, or looks down on us for using a monthly benefit as our income, it is a sad statement of them, and does not reflect on my lifestyle who has chosen to provide adequate monthly income for the rest of my life to live anywhere in the world. I have no heirs and never will plan to accumulate money to have it sit in a bank account like the Thais expect with their 800,000 baht requirement. Does the Thai government really even realize the millions or possibly billions of bahts of dollars that support their economy that could be in jeopardy if all of us that depended on monthly incomes were eliminated from this economy. So many countries welcome pensioners because we spend a lot of money in their countries and rarely get in trouble or cause problems for their governments.
Yes, somehow we need to join in in our community voices to talk to our embassies and to Immigration in a professional and meaningful way rather than ridiculing them and making them even more defensive about our presence in their country. I am all in favor of immigration control and do believe we can find a realistic way to address the hardship this is going to cause each of us, our families here and the impact of loss income to the economy that needs that money badly also..
Maybe the readers of this site can be encouraged to send letters to our embassy or even our state department in the USA to seek a resolution to this problem. It is everyone's best interest to resolve this in favor of the pensioners here rather than making us out to be the bad guys simply because we cannot or will not put 800,000 baht in their bank. No where in the world have I heard of this before anyway for a simple retirement visa...monthly income yes, but funds in a local bank????
We need to find a strong voice to talk for all of us and somewhere I believe we can find someone who has contacts with someone who can be heard here in this country.
So I encourage people to write and write and write again to our embassy and our government and deluge them with our letters to have them seek a diplomatic resolution on this issue. Isn't that what our embassy is partially there for anyway?
Then the Immigration Police here in Thailand needs to update their online documents and enforce their own codes rather than allowing each immigration office to interpret the rules however they seem fit. There needs to be clarification because right now the Immigration Police guidelines indicate 65,000 baht income can be verified by simply showing of bank statements that consistently show that amount of income and do not indicate it has to be put through a Thai bank even...Sure we all know bank statements can be manufactured but that is a crime and should be prosecuted a such if discovered.
But our embassy is another issue. It is simply not true that it is impossible for them to verify governmental pensions in the USA and this is where we need to concentrate our efforts if you are from the USA...a simple matter of contacting the government agency that issues that pension and verifying online...simple as apple pie...so I am not sure where they are coming up with the comment that it is "impossible" but certainly the impossible is doable with the advent of computerized records now for many years and there is no acceptable excuse for doing otherwise in my mind.
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I left a message elsewhere on this site about this notification. Now I am asking someone who has contact with a decision maker at the USA Embassy to intervene in this issue based on this information. I have lived in Chile and Costa Rica before landing here in Thailand. Both countries have income requirements for long term visas in their countries. But the USA Embassy in both of those countries provide a letter certifying income where possible to American citizens. It is false and misleading for this embassy in BKK to say they cannot verify government records with the Social Security and Veteran's administration. All they have to do is go online and get that information directly and then certify that they have verified the funds, plain and simple, easy for them to do. For them to say otherwise is either an out and out lie or the rules have changed all over the world which I really doubt. This embassy simply does not have the creativity to simply establish a policy stating what documents are necessary to provide in order for them to verify funds. It is no big deal if our income depends on government pensions of any type and they could simply replace this new policy stating what can easily be verified by them rather than saying that income from any source cannot be verified. This is plain and simple not true in my personal experience.
So these people need to be challenged with this false information and need to be challenged as to why they are not willing to take the simple steps to establish what sources that they can verify and what documents or steps would be necessary to verify our sources of income particularly if we receive our funds from a government source that is so easy to verify.
This is a case of bureaucratic nonsense once again by our great government, rather than finding a way they can serve the citizens of the USA they simple close the door on us with this kind of nonsense. So if anyone here has a contact into the consulate general directly, then that seems to be the only way that we can challenge this decision which appears to be made more by the Thais working in our embassy than by the experienced officials who should be able to do a little research and find a better solution to this situation.
I for one would never have 800,00) baht just sitting around to tie up in one of these unreliable banks that I read so much about being duped by, etc. And can you imagine having a direct deposit coming from the government in the USA to a Thai bank since we may be the first ones to get this offer? There are many places for our money to disappear being handled this way it seems to me. My monthly income is nearly double what is required to stay here and it just pisses me off to no end for our embassy to do this to us simply because they are too lazy to do the necessary research and get this resolved in our favor.
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It continues to amuse me to read responses to these articles from people who have no earthly idea what they are talking about. Here are some facts abouy Uber.
1. It is the largest taxi company in the world now and is making lots of organized mafia controlled companies very uncomfortable because of their rapid and cheaper service. What is wrong with this anyway? Any taxi driver can quit his low paying job and become an Uber driver anywhere in the world where it is legal, so rather than complaining and saying they are taking business away, join them...much better deal for all concerned.
2. Uber carries a $3 million liability coverage policy on all of its drivers. So for those of you talking about them being uninsured, well, you really do not know what you are talking about. There is no taxi company, that I am aware of, in the world who carries this high limit of liability coverage for its drivers. I would say that is a fairly responsible business strategy and much more ethical than most taxi companies with their low limits of coverage.
3. Uber requies high limit individual coverage be carried by its drivers. In the USA, that is a limit of $300,000/$100,000 being $300K for total per accident and $100K per individual in that accident. So what say you nay sayers of wrong information again? Guess that does not suit your arguments either, right? It also required all vehicles to be well maintained, clean and well cared for in order to even become a driver.
4. Uber does not employ drivers. It subcontracts with them. That makes them legally self employed. So for the government to say they are a foreign owned business, well that is right and wrong also. It is more accurate for the government to take the position that these drivers may not be properly licensed to conduct a business in Thailand, and that is a legitimate comment. But let's get our facts straight.
So many of us talk about all the cheating of taxis, poor service and corruption of taxi drivers in Thailand and when a decent new concept company that offers rapid and courteous service, known fees prior to boarding into the taxi without having to negotiate, being capable of paying with credit card, rather than cash you, and heavily insured in case of an accident, complain using misinformation and normal groveling that this site is known for.
By the way, Uber takes a small amount (I think it is $1 or $2 per ride from its drivers) to pay for their $3 million dollar liability coverage...Great idea I would say..or would you also argue with this business model.
So Uber is a well run company, breaking the rules of old taxi businesses all over the world that is literally corrupt, too expensive, slow often in getting to a customer and then can you trust the route they take if you do not know the area because in the 30 or so countries I have lived and/or traveled through they tend to take advantage of riders lack of knowledge to run the meter up, if they even use a meter....
So before you start spewing garbage about one more item you know nothing about, why not do a little research and become correctly informed so we would respect your arguments! What an idea that would be...or just continue running off your opinions with toxic comments and total lack of knowledge of what is being said! I challenge you to become informed consumers rather than just detractors and devisive opinionated naysayers.
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Latest from USA Embassy as of 14 December
in Thai Visas, Residency, and Work Permits
Posted
I went to the USA Embassy for my final letter of income verification on the December 14th. I confronted the agent who was notarizing my letter about the embassy stopping the issue of these letters for us and here is a summary of my conversation:
She stated that the US Embassy had made the decision to stop this pratice (we all knew that already)
I asked the reason.
She said it was a decision that the embassy had made.
I then stated that what was published was in fact incorrect about not being able to verify government issued pensions. She defended it of course and I stated that out of the 8 countries I have lived in and had to go through immigration for visas in each of those countries requiring verification of income, the Family Support Units of those embassies had always had the capability of going online and verifying government issued benefits for anyone who received them from the USA. She said that the embassy does not do that, and I of course have factual information to the contrary of this, so when I presented that to her, she asked if I would like to talk to the manager and I replied "of course I would." I was sent to the private little room where they summoned manager to speak with me.
The person who came to talk with me was the Acting ACS Chief, Ms. Aja Setfanon. She basically told me what they had already published. I once again challenged her and she stated they could not go online to verify private records due to the privacy of information act. I explained I was an attorney from the USA and knew differently. All we have to do is to sign a waiver to permit whomever we choose to access our records, and she nodded in compliance. I then stated that she knew as well as I did that any embassy could verify any government documents at any time they needed to. She once again nodded in agreement. So then I asked why the embassy in Thailand had made the decision that they had. She plainly told me that it was their decision not to support the citizens because "it was not their responsibility to do so." Of course this response infuriated me but I had to keep my cools.
She said this embassy had made the decision and that was that. She did not state it was a decision of our State Department nor any other reason, simply it was a decision they made.
To me this sounds really fishy and somehow I believe there is more to the story than they are disclosing to the public, but there was no point in protesting further. Obviously she was just carrying out the orders of someone else, because that is who pays her pay check. It sruck me as to the lack of empathy when I brought up the point of how many USA citizens were relying on monthly pension payments to live abroad and how they could negatively impacted by this decision. She responded by saying "Well, you are the one who decided to live in Thailand."
So the whole story here simply does not make sense.
Factually, the Family Support Unit has been moved out of BKK to the Philippines and does not support us as well as it should, and that is another story, so without the support of the FSU here in BKK, they would have to receive verification from Manilla or get permission to go online locally to access our records, but the statement that it is "impossible for them to verify income sources anywhere" is an absolutely false.
I wonder if enough of us Americans petitioned the embassy or the State Department if we could get a better conclusion to this story, or if there is something politically going on here that has forced them into this kind of conclusion.
Ms. Stafanon did tell me that if any immigration office was not in compliance with the Immigration Police Guidelines and we told her about it, that they would make contact with that immigration office and request that they follow their own guidelines correctly however, and follow up with the Thai government main immigration office of the problems with local IOs. She qualified that statement by saying that is all they can do though and that it was up to us to make the decision to live here or not.
This is a case that the only thing that may change this decision about these letters is for enough of us to file complaints about their decision so that they listen to us, but somehow I doubt enough of us are really serious about doing anything about it other than complaining...Apathy is strong among ex-pats when it comes to taking action, but we certainly can sit around and complain about it...if you take action then we may be able to have enough voices heard to do something constructive about it.
Their email address in case you would like to be part of us who want to make a difference is: [email protected]; Twitter is: @ACSBKK; FAX is (+66) 02 205-4103
We CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE BUT ONLY IF WE MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD!